pay to win headstart

i came across a video the other day stating that early backers will either have a 1 or 2 day head start before servers launch? i am fine with intrepid selling monthly cosmetics and anything that doesn't actually affect gameplay but this in my opinion is straight pay to win? i cant find any other information on it is anyone able to confirm this or hopefully i am wrong jaja

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Dracmire

Chicago wrote: »

i came across a video the other day stating that early backers will either have a 1 or 2 day head start before servers launch? i am fine with intrepid selling monthly cosmetics and anything that doesn't actually affect gameplay but this in my opinion is straight pay to win? i cant find any other information on it is anyone able to confirm this or hopefully i am wrong jaja

I think you would need to explain!
So someone who plays any game in the first year, has paid to win, compared to someone who plays year 2, based on your logic.

This is quite simply a ridiculous take which you obviously haven't even thought about before typing.

Hinotori

Ludullu

Naeleron wrote: »

So literally pay to win, if they are the "good" servers to be on.

If "having less people" is p2w for you, then you have way more problems than a few headstart servers.

Chicago

Dracmire wrote: »

Chicago wrote: »

i came across a video the other day stating that early backers will either have a 1 or 2 day head start before servers launch? i am fine with intrepid selling monthly cosmetics and anything that doesn't actually affect gameplay but this in my opinion is straight pay to win? i cant find any other information on it is anyone able to confirm this or hopefully i am wrong jaja

I think you would need to explain!
So someone who plays any game in the first year, has paid to win, compared to someone who plays year 2, based on your logic.

This is quite simply a ridiculous take which you obviously haven't even thought about before typing.

actually its not even a close comparison, the difference is having empty servers to play on, let me give you an example how this is pay to win, i will use wow classic as a reference, keep in mind i know these are different games and these features will not be in AOC but its very possible that there are bosses/rares/features like this,

okay, you have 48 hours on an empty server before others join, by this stage you have played upwards of 18 months of alpha 1/2 and betas, you know the game like the back of your hand towards level 25, in wow classic if this was the case you could easily have 10+ attempts at the gurabashi arena trinket, a chest that spawns on a 3 hour time frame in a higher level zone, the reason this trinket is so hard to get is because the server population almost prevents it as its always contested by upwards of 30+ players, another example, the Tidal charm in wow classic, an extremley over powered item that drops off a rare elite ( Prince Nazjak ) the reason this is so hard to get is because again the population of the server prevents it as everyone wants it and this boss is on a 12 hour spawn cycle, now you would have 4-5 attempts at getting this extremley rare trinket before the rest of the server even starts, another example is leatherworking, there are mobs in wow classic called devilsaurs that can be skinned for leather, the reason its so rare is because there are only 2-3 of these mobs on a long spawn timer that is best in slot for crafting for the entire server for alot of the early game, imagine having a 2 day headstart and having 48 hours longer to farm these mats than the rest of the server.. im using these examples because i know this game well obviously they are different games but im sure you can find other examples on other games, it is pure pay to win reguardless how you want to spin it

now i would like to say i am not complaining about people getting a head start that is not what this post is about the thing that i was making a point about is the fact that this game is extremely against PTW features and advertised as such whilst having this pay to win feature bluntly in the game, it is contradictory and that is the reason for my post, im sure other people can add to this with examples from other games how a 48 hour headstart would benefit you in huge ways but as for my self i dont know enough games to give examples, i obviously did think about this post before i made it but each to their own

Ludullu

Chicago wrote: »

now i would like to say i am not complaining about people getting a head start that is not what this post is about the thing that i was making a point about is the fact that this game is extremely against PTW features and advertised as such whilst having this pay to win feature bluntly in the game, it is contradictory and that is the reason for my post, im sure other people can add to this with examples from other games how a 48 hour headstart would benefit you in huge ways but as for my self i dont know enough games to give examples, i obviously did think about this post before i made it but each to their own

The main difference between those games and Ashes is the node system. The node system determines which mobs/bosses you have. And headstart servers will have it deactivated for those 48 hours. So the only super uber cool boss you'd be able to kill is some lvl10 schmuck, that at best would give you an item or two (maybe a bit more) for your whole guild. All while the masses of people would probably outlvl that gear within another few days after release.

The only "p2w" here is that some people will just have higher lvls at release. But literally after the first 24h there'll be people who outlevel the headstarters. Mainly because nodes will shoot up in lvls and those new players will have better exping spots. But also because quite a lot of people love to go super hardcore on release, so they'll utilize those farming spots.

Now obviously there'll be headstarters that manage to go insane on both the pre- and main releases, but no one would be able to outpace those beasts even if there wasn't a headstart on the server.

In other words, it's always unfair to someone, so we might as well call "living in your moms basement" a p2w mechanic. But by that measure, I'm probably the p2wiest of anyone on this server.

Chicago

The only "p2w" here is that some people will just have higher lvls at release. But literally after the first 24h there'll be people who outlevel the headstarters. Mainly because nodes will shoot up in lvls and those new players will have better exping spots. But also because quite a lot of people love to go super hardcore on release, so they'll utilize those farming spots.

the problem is most people are missing the point of this post, '' the only p2w here '' there should be 0 ptw on a game that is advertised as 0 ptw

Songcaller

The level 10 boss will give good certificates so the early starters can get the gold for a house to get a mansion faster once the nodes level.

Ludullu

Chicago wrote: »

the problem is most people are missing the point of this post, '' the only p2w here '' there should be 0 ptw on a game that is advertised as 0 ptw

I put the "" there because I don't consider that to be p2w. And, as been discussed before, every person that goes to the headstart server will do so knowingly (at least Intrepid should make the difference VERY clear), at which point it'd be the exact same as someone just coming into the game 2 days after release instead of directly on release. Should those late players consider everyone a filthy p2wer, because they had a 2 day headstart?

Neurath wrote: »

The level 10 boss will give good certificates so the early starters can get the gold for a house to get a mansion faster once the nodes level.

You do have a point there. But that also kinda applies to anything else. The headstarters could just grind lowbie mobs for 48h and then use all that money to buy the houses.

I think this could be kinda prevented by making the T3 node a bit harder to achieve, so that people have more time to gain some money before that. And that money gain would be higher than the headstart one, cause it would come from higher lvl mobs.

Though again, hardcore players would win out either way, so ultimately the headstart wouldn't matter.

Vaknar

It looks like there were plenty of helpful comments here to answer OP's question and concern. Love to see it!

Chicago

Vaknar wrote: »

It looks like there were plenty of helpful comments here to answer OP's question and concern. Love to see it!

mas o menos

Sybil_Lanel

NiKr wrote: »

Chicago wrote: »

now i would like to say i am not complaining about people getting a head start that is not what this post is about the thing that i was making a point about is the fact that this game is extremely against PTW features and advertised as such whilst having this pay to win feature bluntly in the game, it is contradictory and that is the reason for my post, im sure other people can add to this with examples from other games how a 48 hour headstart would benefit you in huge ways but as for my self i dont know enough games to give examples, i obviously did think about this post before i made it but each to their own

The main difference between those games and Ashes is the node system. The node system determines which mobs/bosses you have. And headstart servers will have it deactivated for those 48 hours. So the only super uber cool boss you'd be able to kill is some lvl10 schmuck, that at best would give you an item or two (maybe a bit more) for your whole guild. All while the masses of people would probably outlvl that gear within another few days after release.

The only "p2w" here is that some people will just have higher lvls at release. But literally after the first 24h there'll be people who outlevel the headstarters. Mainly because nodes will shoot up in lvls and those new players will have better exping spots. But also because quite a lot of people love to go super hardcore on release, so they'll utilize those farming spots.

Now obviously there'll be headstarters that manage to go insane on both the pre- and main releases, but no one would be able to outpace those beasts even if there wasn't a headstart on the server.

In other words, it's always unfair to someone, so we might as well call "living in your moms basement" a p2w mechanic. But by that measure, I'm probably the p2wiest of anyone on this server.

I'm also going to mention a lot of people are already in guilds. I have a few kickstarters in my guild but they are probably just going to restart on launch. Otherwise they have to find a new guild.

novercalis

Natasha wrote: »

novercalis

Neurath wrote: »

The level 10 boss will give good certificates so the early starters can get the gold for a house to get a mansion faster once the nodes level.

a casual with head start server only plays 5-6 hours. Meanwhile there is a sweaty who will be gaming 48 hour non stop and out farm, out XP, out level the head start person.

Kilion

At this point the back and forth reads like some forcefully wants to squeeze the head start into the category of P2W just for artificial outrage or trolling really.

"Let me put down 500$ in this Kickstarter project so that a decade later I can get 48h of head start with the main feature of the game deactivated." Sorry... if that's P2W then buying assets to have a passive income which increases possible free time that one uses to play, building a good PC or having good internet connection to reduce lag is also P2W.

There is better critic to bring forth regarding the whole project than this.

Gospell1

Will there be special servers for who will start playing 2 days earlier? Does it mean that such servers will be half empty?
Who wants to log into such servers after 2 days?

Kilion

Gospell wrote: »

Will there be special servers for who will start playing 2 days earlier? Does it mean that such servers will be half empty?
Who wants to log into such servers after 2 days?

We touched on that previously, there are only 19k people with a head start of 24 or 48h in total, there will be only around 3 servers where they can start ahead of time and during the head start the Node system is turned off so there is not much to gain from it really

Saltycarrots

Chicago wrote: »

the problem is most people are missing the point of this post, '' the only p2w here '' there should be 0 ptw on a game that is advertised as 0 ptw

I agree that paying for a headstart in a new mmorpg launch is p2w but after steven said there will be specific headstart servers and then launch servers it doesn't matter anymore

Lets take your wow example:

Chicago wrote: »

okay, you have 48 hours on an empty server before others join, by this stage you have played upwards of 18 months of alpha 1/2 and betas, you know the game like the back of your hand towards level 25, in wow classic if this was the case you could easily have 10+ attempts at the gurabashi arena trinket

If you open up wow classic on launch day and see 3 servers with paid headstart for some and think, oh they already got the gurubashi trinket or the trinket from Nazjak then, just a small tip, choose one of the other 50 servers where everyone will start at the same time.

The headstart is basically just servers for those early backers, i would never go on one of them. But thats just my view on it

Gospell1

Kilion wrote: »

We touched on that previously, there are only 19k people with a head start of 24 or 48h in total, there will be only around 3 servers where they can start ahead of time and during the head start the Node system is turned off so there is not much to gain from it really

I really understand what you mean. Sorry for my English, maybe I didn't write my thought correctly.
I think that such servers will be half empty, because no one wants to play there, except for those who have early access. When the game comes out, everyone will want new servers.

Ludullu

Gospell wrote: »

I really understand what you mean. Sorry for my English, maybe I didn't write my thought correctly.
I think that such servers will be half empty, because no one wants to play there, except for those who have early access. When the game comes out, everyone will want new servers.

Except for everyone who couldn't give 2 fucks about some ephemeral "advantage" and who also sees several servers w/o a queue.

Gospell1

NiKr wrote: »

Except for everyone who couldn't give 2 fucks about some ephemeral "advantage" and who also sees several servers w/o a queue.

That's right, the queue ... I completely forgot about the queue xD
for most people, even the slightest advantage can turn out to be a terrible tragedy and not justice.

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