Min-Maxers will ruin every server's storyline

I was thinking on the question:

How will Intrepid prevent the min-maxing mentality from ruining the storyline progression?

Once min-maxers find certain classes to be op they'll look for items that unlock from specific storyline progression paths. This will make most servers basically just go through the same storyline just because min-maxing mentality which always overwhelms all multiplayer games and forces even lots of casuals to conform to it in order to have fun in pvp and pve.

This will ruin the whole idea about different storylines on different servers etc. etc.

This is a big big feature of the game and it seems that it'll die quickly as soon as min-maxers make enough progression and wiki sites get filled with information about storyline progression related items.

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Kilion

Birthday wrote: »

Cool info.

Easier said than done I'd say. But considering this game has been "coming out" for a decade now I'd hope that they at least dont fuck it up. Ya know

Don't be fooled by the doomers. The game process naturally has to be slower for Ashes, considering they had trouble even hiring a sizeable amount of staff until recently, they are still despite the ambition and all not a major, established production studio and the production speed compared to the quality of what has been delivered in the end also points to this taking longer than 6 years (you know, you wouldn't want to have another New World after 7 years of production)

Spif

It is up to Intrepid to make sure that multiple paths for each node type have value at the highest level, and also that the quests available to those nodes are not just available to citizens.

Node A researches the "best" setup and path, and gets the node there faster than anyone else, unlocking certain quests and bosses.

Node B is slower, and sees where node A is going and takes a different path on purpose, so they can do content at node A, and also content at node B

Node C sees what A and B are doing and does something even more different. Now there different content at 3 different nodes to do.

Etc.

Vyril

Min-Maxers are only part of the problem.

Wait til the dataminers get their hands on the client.

Depraved

Birthday wrote: »

I was thinking on the question:

How will Intrepid prevent the min-maxing mentality from ruining the storyline progression?

Once min-maxers find certain classes to be op they'll look for items that unlock from specific storyline progression paths. This will make most servers basically just go through the same storyline just because min-maxing mentality which always overwhelms all multiplayer games and forces even lots of casuals to conform to it in order to have fun in pvp and pve.

This will ruin the whole idea about different storylines on different servers etc. etc.

This is a big big feature of the game and it seems that it'll die quickly as soon as min-maxers make enough progression and wiki sites get filled with information about storyline progression related items.

How will Intrepid prevent the casual mentality from ruining the storyline progression?

Once casuals find certain storylines to be appealing, they'll look for items that unlock from specific storyline progression paths. This will make most servers basically just go through the same storyline just because casual mentality which always overwhelms all multiplayer games and forces even lots of min-maxers to conform to it in order to have fun in pvp and pve.

Dygz

I don't understand how min/maxers will be able to manipulate racial populations to have the exact same number of Pyrian or Vek Cities and Nikua or Tulnar Metros in the exact same locations.
Nor how they will be able to ensure which regions have the exact same land management and resources.
Or how they will be able to determine the goals of the guilds running all 5 Castles.
Or who wins the Monster Coin Events. Or how they will ensure that the Goblin Raid Event has the exact same results.
Or how they will ensure that the various Social Orga have the exact same influence on every server.

What does "ruining the storyline progression" even mean??

Birthday

Depraved wrote: »

Birthday wrote: »

I was thinking on the question:

How will Intrepid prevent the min-maxing mentality from ruining the storyline progression?

Once min-maxers find certain classes to be op they'll look for items that unlock from specific storyline progression paths. This will make most servers basically just go through the same storyline just because min-maxing mentality which always overwhelms all multiplayer games and forces even lots of casuals to conform to it in order to have fun in pvp and pve.

This will ruin the whole idea about different storylines on different servers etc. etc.

This is a big big feature of the game and it seems that it'll die quickly as soon as min-maxers make enough progression and wiki sites get filled with information about storyline progression related items.

How will Intrepid prevent the casual mentality from ruining the storyline progression?

Once casuals find certain storylines to be appealing, they'll look for items that unlock from specific storyline progression paths. This will make most servers basically just go through the same storyline just because casual mentality which always overwhelms all multiplayer games and forces even lots of min-maxers to conform to it in order to have fun in pvp and pve.

What? xD Dude everyone has different tastes. Some like to play it evil, some good, some neutral and AoC offers many more choices like that. Meanwhile there is just 1 meta always.

Birthday

Dygz wrote: »

What does "ruining the storyline progression" even mean??

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Story_arcs

Noaani

Birthday wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

What does "ruining the storyline progression" even mean??

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Story_arcs

That link is a description of what the games story arcs are intended to encompass, but it says nothing at all about what you mean by ruining them.

Tyranthraxus

Let's say that there *is* an "ideal" storyline to follow on a server: Specific raids that - if unlocked - have the chance to drop the "best" loot for a build, certain events that can be completed to open an area in which the "best" enhancements for gear from which can be had?

It's been re-iterated that we'll first experience the story-to-be (in it's final iteration(s)) when launch-day comes. That equates to having a "placeholder" story for the Alphas/Betas. If we have to unlock/advance the story of each server and don't know what it is ahead of time? If we don't know what boss/raids/world bosses will - for certain - drop which items? How will anyone know pre-launch what's the best path to follow?

I mean, if after 2 years a perfect advancement has been all mapped out, and players WANT to band together and settle on/move to a new or un-advanced server, then what's the harm?

Let them. Good for them for figuring it out. Whatever server they move to can just be known as the "min-max" or "leet-ist" server. *I* won't miss the ethic, when they go....

tautau

@Tyranthraxus is right, we would have to try out each combo of node levels and then be able to decide which of the combos was 'best'. However, I don't think it can be done in two years. Why?

85 regular nodes (not even considering the 15 castle nodes) to start with. Level 1 and 2 nodes won't develop much content, so let's just consider levels 3 - 6, or four levels of node possible. So, 85 nodes at 4 levels each, we have a possible combination of 85 to the 4th power or over 52.2 Million combinations of nodes/levels on a server. I would expect that we will never explore them all, much less be able to compare them somehow to come to an agreement of what is 'best' or 'ideal' storyline.

In other words, from a player perspective, this game will have an infinite number of possible storylines or paths to follow. The problem posited by the OP doesn't exist.

Birthday

tautau wrote: »

@Tyranthraxus is right, we would have to try out each combo of node levels and then be able to decide which of the combos was 'best'. However, I don't think it can be done in two years. Why?

85 regular nodes (not even considering the 15 castle nodes) to start with. Level 1 and 2 nodes won't develop much content, so let's just consider levels 3 - 6, or four levels of node possible. So, 85 nodes at 4 levels each, we have a possible combination of 85 to the 4th power or over 52.2 Million combinations of nodes/levels on a server. I would expect that we will never explore them all, much less be able to compare them somehow to come to an agreement of what is 'best' or 'ideal' storyline.

In other words, from a player perspective, this game will have an infinite number of possible storylines or paths to follow. The problem posited by the OP doesn't exist.

I agree. However this whole thing you are saying is a BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIG "IF". Data miners can see all those infinite possibilities in just a few seconds.

https://youtu.be/eGKPfZTXHsc?t=6

tautau

Perhaps so. But, even if they could access and see all the possible dungeons of each level of each node and the mobs and bosses and drops in each one (which is questionable), they would not know the player experience/fun of each one or have any valid way to compare them.

Arya_Yeshe

Why there's never a storyline system that weaves the story of multiple players? So in the future you can read and remember who you played the storyline with, who showed up only once and saved your ass, etc

Npcs and lore characters are not as important as people

Birthday

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Why there's never a storyline system that weaves the story of multiple players? So in the future you can read and remember who you played the storyline with, who showed up only once and saved your ass, etc

Npcs and lore characters are not as important as people

That's an interesting thought and I like it.

Dygz

We'll have to see how good the Journal is at recording interactions with players.

Noaani

Dygz wrote: »

We'll have to see how good the Journal is at recording interactions with players.

What journal?

Depraved

tautau wrote: »

@Tyranthraxus is right, we would have to try out each combo of node levels and then be able to decide which of the combos was 'best'. However, I don't think it can be done in two years. Why?

85 regular nodes (not even considering the 15 castle nodes) to start with. Level 1 and 2 nodes won't develop much content, so let's just consider levels 3 - 6, or four levels of node possible. So, 85 nodes at 4 levels each, we have a possible combination of 85 to the 4th power or over 52.2 Million combinations of nodes/levels on a server. I would expect that we will never explore them all, much less be able to compare them somehow to come to an agreement of what is 'best' or 'ideal' storyline.

In other words, from a player perspective, this game will have an infinite number of possible storylines or paths to follow. The problem posited by the OP doesn't exist.

or... one part of the story, and access to a specific area, can be granted by more than one node...

I'm sure the server story log will just show players what cities have been built and destroyed and which castles have been won and lost. so it probably wont matter in the end

Percimes

tautau wrote: »

@Tyranthraxus is right, we would have to try out each combo of node levels and then be able to decide which of the combos was 'best'. However, I don't think it can be done in two years. Why?

85 regular nodes (not even considering the 15 castle nodes) to start with. Level 1 and 2 nodes won't develop much content, so let's just consider levels 3 - 6, or four levels of node possible. So, 85 nodes at 4 levels each, we have a possible combination of 85 to the 4th power or over 52.2 Million combinations of nodes/levels on a server. I would expect that we will never explore them all, much less be able to compare them somehow to come to an agreement of what is 'best' or 'ideal' storyline.

In other words, from a player perspective, this game will have an infinite number of possible storylines or paths to follow. The problem posited by the OP doesn't exist.

I know the game seems to take a long time, but I wouldn't bet it's because the devs are designing 52.2 million individual combinations of nodes advancement.

If I was to guess, I'd say it will be "limited" to a mix of node types, stages and biomes. And since a node 6 was once a node 5, a node 4 before that, and so on, it won't be that unpredictable to see what will happen to a node once we've seen that progression for a certain biome.

Don't get me wrong, we'll get to see a lot of different evolution from server to server, but it will always be kind of similar, or at least familiar.

Noaani

Percimes wrote: »

tautau wrote: »

@Tyranthraxus is right, we would have to try out each combo of node levels and then be able to decide which of the combos was 'best'. However, I don't think it can be done in two years. Why?

85 regular nodes (not even considering the 15 castle nodes) to start with. Level 1 and 2 nodes won't develop much content, so let's just consider levels 3 - 6, or four levels of node possible. So, 85 nodes at 4 levels each, we have a possible combination of 85 to the 4th power or over 52.2 Million combinations of nodes/levels on a server. I would expect that we will never explore them all, much less be able to compare them somehow to come to an agreement of what is 'best' or 'ideal' storyline.

In other words, from a player perspective, this game will have an infinite number of possible storylines or paths to follow. The problem posited by the OP doesn't exist.

I know the game seems to take a long time, but I wouldn't bet it's because the devs are designing 52.2 million individual combinations of nodes advancement.

If I was to guess, I'd say it will be "limited" to a mix of node types, stages and biomes. And since a node 6 was once a node 5, a node 4 before that, and so on, it won't be that unpredictable to see what will happen to a node once we've seen that progression for a certain biome.

Don't get me wrong, we'll get to see a lot of different evolution from server to server, but it will always be kind of similar, or at least familiar.

I'd go one step further - or back.

IMO, dungeon locations will be set in place, and their population is based on the node that has control over the area - starting from node stage 4.

Thus, the dungeon will have a total of 12 states, including a total of 4 states of level capped content. The same will be true for major PoI's in overland content (boss mobs etc).

Overland base population content is a little more challenging, but it isn't as if Intrepid need to place mobs for each potential node state - all they need to do is code each node state in to spawners.

Dygz

Percimes wrote: »

If I was to guess, I'd say it will be "limited" to a mix of node types, stages and biomes. And since a node 6 was once a node 5, a node 4 before that, and so on, it won't be that unpredictable to see what will happen to a node once we've seen that progression for a certain biome.

Don't get me wrong, we'll get to see a lot of different evolution from server to server, but it will always be kind of similar, or at least familiar.

I dunno how similar they can be based on region, Node Type and primary Racial population - in addition to the specific services each government chooses to build and whatever the surrounding Node Types are doing.

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