Greens unable to be CCd

id like to see what everyone's opinions are on this topic, as this is a forum for feedback etc here is mine,

i understand there needs to be measurements in place to prevent constant ganking, however the corruption system is already extremely heavy as it is, i think making it so greens cant be CCd is not a good idea at all, preventing you from using your tool kit and abilities makes no sense at all and even further how would this tie into any lore whatso ever, it is an open world sandbox style game so things like this should not be prevented, obviously i may be biased as i am planning on doing alot of pvp but this is just my opinion and i would like to hear yours!

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Dygz

Ashes is a Themebox; not a Sandbox.

Arya_Yeshe

Well... to me, if they are a war target, they should be CCed for sure.

Hear me out... people will circunvent wars and ganking by having a green non-citizen alt that belongs to no guilds. Then you will have this courier alt, just to run around in a mule and haul all your goods around. In the long run you will lose nearly no items at all.

Ludullu

It's about pvp balance. The first attacker has the advantage of first strike, so the defender now has the advantage of a CC counter. And reds can go fuck themselves

Chicago

Dygz wrote: »

Ashes is a Themebox; not a Sandbox.

jesus you are hard to have a conversation with you remind me of neil degrasse tyson

Chicago

NiKr wrote: »

It's about pvp balance. The first attacker has the advantage of first strike, so the defender now has the advantage of a CC counter. And reds can go fuck themselves

i am not a fan of ganking in general tbh i love pvp but camping someone is not for me, however i still think you should not be limited on what abilities you can use, also greens not being abled to be ccd only will really affect some classes, furthermore im curious if there is a list of CC this in cludes, snares, slows? or just stuns

Chicago

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Well... to me, if they are a war target, they should be CCed for sure.

Hear me out... people will circunvent wars and ganking by having a green non-citizen alt that belongs to no guilds. Then you will have this courier alt, just to run around in a mule and haul all your goods around. In the long run you will lose nearly no items at all.

i agree, the whole premise of risk vs reward is slowly fading away to me

Spif

Green CC immunity is partially about stopping griefing

Ex: a person is fighting a mob, and another player uses low damage CC on them (snares/stuns/knockdown) so the mob wins, they die and drop loot

Being able to CC a green (using a very low level weapon to deal minimal damage) circumvents the flagging system. It's a similar reason to why you won't be able to heal mobs

Arya_Yeshe

Chicago wrote: »

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Well... to me, if they are a war target, they should be CCed for sure.

Hear me out... people will circunvent wars and ganking by having a green non-citizen alt that belongs to no guilds. Then you will have this courier alt, just to run around in a mule and haul all your goods around. In the long run you will lose nearly no items at all.

i agree, the whole premise of risk vs reward is slowly fading away to me

I think the risk-reward is being funneled to losing in sieges, because that can will literally strip you out of items

AoC is brutal in that regard and I'm not sure Intrepid will emotionally prepare the community to lose all their shit in a siege. EVE Online is the most brutal game among all games, but if your station gets bashed, all your personal items will be automatically delivered to the closest NPC station... so AoC brutality will surpass EVE in this because in AoC you can lose everything in a structure bash

Arya_Yeshe

Spif wrote: »

Green CC immunity is partially about stopping griefing

Ex: a person is fighting a mob, and another player uses low damage CC on them (snares/stuns/knockdown) so the mob wins, they die and drop loot

Being able to CC a green (using a very low level weapon to deal minimal damage) circumvents the flagging system. It's a similar reason to why you won't be able to heal mobs

I guess Steven simply had to draw the line somewhere and he chose that, we will never know the which is the best option among all...it's just a design option

Nerror

NiKr wrote: »

It's about pvp balance. The first attacker has the advantage of first strike, so the defender now has the advantage of a CC counter. And reds can go fuck themselves

This very much. Well, I don't hate reds, but I understand the sentiment.

Ludullu

Chicago wrote: »

i am not a fan of ganking in general tbh i love pvp but camping someone is not for me, however i still think you should not be limited on what abilities you can use, also greens not being abled to be ccd only will really affect some classes, furthermore im curious if there is a list of CC this in cludes, snares, slows? or just stuns

War participants will be free to gank whoever they want and at any time, because they're permaflagged against each other. But pure greens that are just minding their business should be safer. Also, if you're just ganking a green - just keep hitting them with your biggest hits and they'll either die on the spot to give you corruption or try to run away, but w/o good healing it'd be difficult to just run away.

There's the "mount up and run" option, but we don't know how easy that'll be while under attack or how thick the mount will be and whether we'd be able to just kill the mount very quickly.

There's a tiny chance that CCs that come with attack attribute will go through, but that's a very high copium on my count cause this is how it worked in L2.

Nerror

NiKr wrote: »

or how thick the mount will be

You better believe I'll do animal husbandry until I can breed this thicc boi to ride away on, should I so fancy.

George_Black

I think that if they stick to their guns and go ahead with this design, tanks will gain importance on a whole new level.

Initianing group PvP will have to be strategic, using the tanks to bait the enemy for a mistake. Not the usual zergball PvP we see in mmos today (which are also not owpvp).

However, I want to see the Rogue archetype being equiped with:
1 melee CC skill on high CD, high mp cost and low dmg which can be used on greens.

Such ideas would give real class flavour/identity to AoCs class system when it comes to combat. Mind you, I hate rogues and mages.

Classes need more variety than:
Cleansing corrupted areas, discovering traps/chests, breaking through "hidden walls" etc etc.

Classes need real combat flavour.

Guild v guild war rules, or siege/caravan areas are a different beast. Nobody is considered green is such situations. All CCs will work straight away.

Veeshan

The no CC is also there so somone like ohh look this guy fighting mobs im just gonna stun him for 2 seconds so the mobs kill him for me and i dont get a penalty cause i didnt do the killing blow

I think u should be CC immune for like 3-5 seconds or so when u get hit by somone so initiating a fight isnt so benefitial to the point of there no point to fight back due to being garanteed loss at that stage due to being stunlocked for half your hp and so on. think rogues in wow there.

Sathrago

Ok so with no CC, assuming this also means no slows, its going to be extremely hard neigh impossible to kill a player that is actively building escape tools such as sprints, teleports, etc. Now if the target is low from pve fighting then sure it can happen. However, one on one assuming full hp I could never see it happening. So you would need a group of players, perhaps 3 or more to accomplish this before they gain the distance to evade you.

With this, I feel that there might need to be more eyes on large group ganking dynamics as currently listed corruption goes to the killing blow. I really think it should be party wide corruption instead. You are a cooperating member of a group and can choose to leave at any point. If you see someone in your group attacking a green and you dont want corruption, leave the group. Simple as that.

Some will argue that this can be used to grief others, but again you have the power to curate who joins your groups or which groups you join. They could perhaps add a window of time before a kill that tracks who casts positive effects on the attackers and negative effects (and damage) dealt to the victim to properly spread the corruption to the participants, and this would be preferred. However im not sure that's gonna be easy to implement.

Kilion

I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, to ensure that the "peaceful" (if you want to consider killing mobs that) and productive side of the game can actually happen it is positive that greens can basically escape a bit more easy that way.

With that being said - it kind of a carebear mechanic and I don't like that it could allow players to isolate themselves too much from aspects of the world. But instead of going fully either way I would connect this once again to the logic of the world. Since there are events during which parts of the world can become corrupted and that corruption can spread if left alone, I would like to see the immunity to CC be deactivated in all Zones of Influences that are corrupted or next to a corrupted Zone of Influence. That way people insisting on ignoring part of the world and trying to turn it into a farming simulator, will be incentivized to look beyond their safe space and engage in something worthwhile that might be beyond what they would usually do in a game.

Arya_Yeshe

Yes, it is a carebear mechanic and even gankers will use this to haul their goods with their alts

Everything goes back to the corruption system, because the system itself is not great, then all over the game the devs have to keep pulling new rules and mechanics out of their asses.

Because the corruption system is bad, many new little details have to be developed, until we end up with stuff like "greens can't be CCed"

Kilion

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Because the corruption system is bad

Still strongly disagree with that opinion.

Arya_Yeshe

How would I protect carebears if I had tens of milions of dollars and a big dev team?

By creating a Justice System in the game, even with players as judges, bails, fines, bounty hunters, executioners, etc

Arya_Yeshe

Kilion wrote: »

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Because the corruption system is bad

Still strongly disagree with that opinion.

Opinions don't matter, I am saying this about the corruption system because from the perspective that recognizes that the lack of effiency of the corruption system created the necessity to add many new rules on top of it, since this deficiency is forcing the devs to create many tiny rules all around the game

It's not my opinion that is bad, it is true that is bad because many tiny rules have to be created

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