Greens unable to be CCd

id like to see what everyone's opinions are on this topic, as this is a forum for feedback etc here is mine,

i understand there needs to be measurements in place to prevent constant ganking, however the corruption system is already extremely heavy as it is, i think making it so greens cant be CCd is not a good idea at all, preventing you from using your tool kit and abilities makes no sense at all and even further how would this tie into any lore whatso ever, it is an open world sandbox style game so things like this should not be prevented, obviously i may be biased as i am planning on doing alot of pvp but this is just my opinion and i would like to hear yours!

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Depraved

daveywavey wrote: »

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Imagine a green comes around and just starts walking through your party's AoE...imagine he comes naked so he can die faster

People only think "griefing" comes from gankers, I say griefing comes only from PvE an ganking is plain PvP and intended gameplay. It doesn't matter if the other guy kills you 1000 times in the spawn, it's just PvP and dev incompetence

True griefing will come from the green horde

Are you using the Force Attack option? If not, the green can wander through there all day. If you're choosing to force your attacks to hit them, then that's on you.

"Q: In the open-world PvP system, will there be a "prevent attacking innocent" option that when turned on will prevent me from accidentally attacking a non-corrupted player? A: The open-world flagging PvP system requires what we call the "Force function" in order to initiate an attack against another player, and by default that's even against players who are already flagged, though not against players who are corrupt; and they're in the settings. You will have options by which you can persist that force function if you wish through another keystroke input. And then additionally you can set your AoEs so that if you initiate an AoE attack against a location and there are flagged players there, you will either- you can set it so that you can automatically hit those flagged players, but by default it doesn't. So, those are options in your in your settings that you will have access to and be able to adjust.[6] – Steven Sharif"

learn more you must, young padawan. l2 had that option too. no way you could kill a green without pressing ctrl..guess what? still happened accidentally many times. seen so many epics and gear drop because someone accidentally went red. there are also ways to make someone go red :P but they are a bit complicated and require a lot of timing. so its possible that people accidentally go red in ashes and lose their stuff.

i agree with arya here. I've been griefed by so many pvers lol and I don't mean karma bombing or anything.

Ludullu

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Just yesterday, Asmongold was reacting to a video saying that MMOs became boring because leveling is just a boring grind and then the game only really starts at max level. This is why people are loving Wow hardcore, because if you die you gotta delete your character, so leveling becomes meaningful again

Asmon is the pinnacle of what you'd call a carebear. And he says that leveling should be meaningful, but I'd bet money that he'd be complaining throughout the whole experience if it was, even if the game was fun on the low lvls. He hates anything even semidifficult and is very easy to ragequit a game if he find a mechanic or two annoying.

I'm more than certain that he won't be able to survive in Ashes, especially if any of your suggestions get even close to being implemented.

Arya_Yeshe

@all

Same thing as in EVE, there is a safety setting (green, yellow, red), but still saw many people gank the wrong targets, or in wrong systems, and they got insta killed by the NPC police, then they were looted by every possible ninja looter LOL

Even me, how many times I came back from low security space with my ship with a flashy skull, blinking like mad, came back to high security space just to find everybody trying to kill me LOL... sometimes nobody dared to touch me because the scene was so ridiculous that made people suspect I was baiting them... !! No, I wasn't baiting anyone, it was just mistakes.... mistakes were made!

How many times I spammed "*TornadoGanker is attacking you*" in Ultima Online, then I walk towards the person while I was saying those words... people entered in combat mode... attacked me... became criminal... i called the guards who insta killed them... then I legally looted them and stored their things in my bank

It's kinda funny safety settings... NPC guards... keyboard shotcuts and mistakes

Arya_Yeshe

NiKr wrote: »

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Just yesterday, Asmongold was reacting to a video saying that MMOs became boring because leveling is just a boring grind and then the game only really starts at max level. This is why people are loving Wow hardcore, because if you die you gotta delete your character, so leveling becomes meaningful again

Asmon is the pinnacle of what you'd call a carebear. And he says that leveling should be meaningful, but I'd bet money that he'd be complaining throughout the whole experience if it was, even if the game was fun on the low lvls. He hates anything even semidifficult and is very easy to ragequit a game if he find a mechanic or two annoying.

I'm more than certain that he won't be able to survive in Ashes, especially if any of your suggestions get even close to being implemented.

Yes, Asmongold is a legendary grindy bear, who is a little clueless about PvP

But recently I am seeing him change, he got very bored in the last years and nowadays he is liking hardcore stuff, permadeath, more risk, more challenge. Asmongold is changing in a better way in 2023

I wonder how Asmongold will react after he farms many dungeons and then put all his shit in a house in the node and then he loses the node... I have no idea how he will react

Noaani

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

I'm just against when there is a big outcry that ends up changing a game, just because of outcry even Ultima Online gained safe areas

In a recent interview, a developer from UO (someone that also happened to have worked on Meridian 59) said the worst thing about UO was that it was a PvP sandbox.

They always wanted to put systems in place to curb that, but EA forced them to release the game before they could develop said systems - so they had to be developed post launch.

As such, those "safe areas" you are complaining about that you say are a result of player outcry were actually always intended to be a thing - the developers just never had a chance to implement them pre launch (with their team of 30), and so had to patch them together post launch (with their team of 7).

Arya_Yeshe

Noaani wrote: »

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

I'm just against when there is a big outcry that ends up changing a game, just because of outcry even Ultima Online gained safe areas

In a recent interview, a developer from UO (someone that also happened to have worked on Meridian 59) said the worst thing about UO was that it was a PvP sandbox.

They always wanted to put systems in place to curb that, but EA forced them to release the game before they could develop said systems - so they had to be developed post launch.

As such, those "safe areas" you are complaining about that you say are a result of player outcry were actually always intended to be a thing - the developers just never had a chance to implement them pre launch (with their team of 30), and so had to patch them together post launch (with their team of 7).

Thanks, EA!

Lord British is a big carebear, we all know that, one time he banned a player just because this guy pickpocket Lord British... what kind of loser is that, using his admin powers to ban people because other people are better players

I've been banned from private UO servers too for reasons similar as that

If a PvP sandbox fails, its only the devs fault

Ludullu

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

But recently I am seeing him change, he got very bored in the last years and nowadays he is liking hardcore stuff, permadeath, more risk, more challenge. Asmongold is changing in a better way in 2023

I've only been watching him for a few years, but I've only seen him become an even bigger carebear. And even in that video he kept insisting that only a fraction of the playerbase is interested in hardcore classic. And pretty much 80% of his feedback goes against AoC's core pillars. It will be one of the most uncomfortable games for him and he'll complain non-stop while playing it.

I just hope that Intrepid don't listen to him and his audience too much, cause they'll definitely push for a whole 180 in design.

Noaani

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

I'm just against when there is a big outcry that ends up changing a game, just because of outcry even Ultima Online gained safe areas

In a recent interview, a developer from UO (someone that also happened to have worked on Meridian 59) said the worst thing about UO was that it was a PvP sandbox.

They always wanted to put systems in place to curb that, but EA forced them to release the game before they could develop said systems - so they had to be developed post launch.

As such, those "safe areas" you are complaining about that you say are a result of player outcry were actually always intended to be a thing - the developers just never had a chance to implement them pre launch (with their team of 30), and so had to patch them together post launch (with their team of 7).

Thanks, EA!

Lord British is a big carebear, we all know that, one time he banned a player just because this guy pickpocket Lord British... what kind of loser is that, using his admin powers to ban people because other people are better players

I've been banned from private UO servers too for reasons similar as that

If a PvP sandbox fails, its only the devs fault

I'm assuming you dont see the issue with the above.

You state first of all that you didnt like the way developers tried to make a PvP sandbox work in the face of unintended player behavior - and then you state it is the developers fault if said PvP sandbox doesn't work.

You dont get to have it both ways.

You can EITHER state that it is developers fault if they do not work, and then accept their method of trying to make it work, OR you can state it is the players fault that a PvP sandbox doesnt work, and reject their method of trying to make it work, but blame those players instead.

You dont get to perform the actions that cause developers to need to take action and then complain when they do take action.

However, you are mistaken. The player that was banned was only banned from the games beta, and was banned for exploiting bugs rather than reporting them (kind of the point of being in a beta). This ban did happen just after said player killed Lord British, however they did produce evidence at the time of the player exploiting bugs rather than reporting them (the only argument to be made here is that the developers only knew about the exploiting after looking in to the players account after the killing).

The players name, by the way, was Rainz.

You really do need to stop bullshitting. I've told you before I can see through it every time.

Arya_Yeshe

Noaani wrote: »

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

I'm just against when there is a big outcry that ends up changing a game, just because of outcry even Ultima Online gained safe areas

In a recent interview, a developer from UO (someone that also happened to have worked on Meridian 59) said the worst thing about UO was that it was a PvP sandbox.

They always wanted to put systems in place to curb that, but EA forced them to release the game before they could develop said systems - so they had to be developed post launch.

As such, those "safe areas" you are complaining about that you say are a result of player outcry were actually always intended to be a thing - the developers just never had a chance to implement them pre launch (with their team of 30), and so had to patch them together post launch (with their team of 7).

Thanks, EA!

Lord British is a big carebear, we all know that, one time he banned a player just because this guy pickpocket Lord British... what kind of loser is that, using his admin powers to ban people because other people are better players

I've been banned from private UO servers too for reasons similar as that

If a PvP sandbox fails, its only the devs fault

I'm assuming you dont see the issue with the above.

You state first of all that you didnt like the way developers tried to make a PvP sandbox work in the face of unintended player behavior - and then you state it is the developers fault if said PvP sandbox doesn't work.

You dont get to have it both ways.

You can EITHER state that it is developers fault if they do not work, and then accept their method of trying to make it work, OR you can state it is the players fault that a PvP sandbox doesnt work, and reject their method of trying to make it work, but blame those players instead.

You dont get to perform the actions that cause developers to need to take action and then complain when they do take action.

However, you are mistaken. The player that was banned was only banned from the games beta, and was banned for exploiting bugs rather than reporting them (kind of the point of being in a beta). This ban did happen just after said player killed Lord British, however they did produce evidence at the time of the player exploiting bugs rather than reporting them (the only argument to be made here is that the developers only knew about the exploiting after looking in to the players account after the killing).

The players name, by the way, was Rainz.

You really do need to stop bullshitting. I've told you before I can see through it every time.

Holy shit, let me burn myself in debunking this, as if I had nothing else to do in life.
It couldn't be two small sentences, right? I has to be a book of arguments about why other people suck.

Reading.... reading... lalala.... reading.

Loading answer:

I double down on that, PvP sandboxes are fantastic and players should do anything they want, if the game fails then it's the devs fault. The player's job is playing and the devs job is developing.

ps: good job in making one Bible everyday about how others suck, you are probably grinding a 1000 bibles achievement. People who don't bring anything to the table are just cowards who are affraid to be criticised, so they stay around in the corners just critizing everybody else everyday... and it's always very personal... forum snipers exist in every forum

Ludullu

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

I double down on that, PvP sandboxes are fantastic and players should do anything they want, if the game fails then it's the devs fault. The player's job is playing and the devs job is developing.

And this is exactly why you're seen as a murderhobo. Being able to do anything usually devolves into harassment and abuse of other people, so devs have to address that beforehand. But you dislike when they do so in their design.

Noaani

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

I double down on that, PvP sandboxes are fantastic and players should do anything they want, if the game fails then it's the devs fault. The player's job is playing and the devs job is developing.

Ok, and so when one player performs unintended actions that will see 100 players quit the game, should the developers just accept that loss in players, or should the developers prevent that one player from performing those actions?

Because what you are describing here is a game with a playerbase that is perhaps a few hundred at the most.

Essentially, you are talking about a product that is not financially viable, and as such will never exist.

Arya_Yeshe

NiKr wrote: »

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

I double down on that, PvP sandboxes are fantastic and players should do anything they want, if the game fails then it's the devs fault. The player's job is playing and the devs job is developing.

And this is exactly why you're seen as a murderhobo. Being able to do anything usually devolves into harassment and abuse of other people, so devs have to address that beforehand. But you dislike when they do so in their design.

Anything within the rules of course!
If the game lets me kill the same guy one hundred times in the spawn, then I will do it and I can confirm I did that a lot in the past!

My best memories in Wow are at Booty Bay, all that random PvP and those ships arriving bringing murder crews to reset the stabilishment at Booty Bay. In Ultima Online it was around those ressurection spots, and so on!

Ludullu

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Anything within the rules of course!
If the game lets me kill the same guy one hundred times in the spawn, then I will do it and I can confirm I did that a lot in the past!

And corruption has rules to stop you from doing that, because if just a few people do this, hundreds of players will leave. And if there's a few people like that on each server - the game will lose thousands and thousands in revenue.

Arya_Yeshe

NiKr wrote: »

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Anything within the rules of course!
If the game lets me kill the same guy one hundred times in the spawn, then I will do it and I can confirm I did that a lot in the past!

And corruption has rules to stop you from doing that, because if just a few people do this, hundreds of players will leave. And if there's a few people like that on each server - the game will lose thousands and thousands in revenue.

Forcing others out of a game is fine, it's intended gameplay, it is the devs fault this happens!!!!

People don't leave because dying a few times, they leave because of hopelesness and grinds, it's the devs fault if this happens

Arya_Yeshe

Devs could do a better job in giving hope and helping the victims not to feel so helpless... but devs don't do that because they are as limited as the victims.

Example:
-if guild members are ganking people non-stop, why not give discounts in declaring war against that entire guild? give so much discount that people will be able to declare war for free... let the entire server declare war on that guild and this will help

The war window could even suggest which guilds you get a discount!!!

HEHEHEEHEHEHEH

Yeap, the war window could give the top 10 of the day, the cheapest war declarations of the day LOL

But because devs try to hide the gankers under the carpet then all devs fail.
If devs have the right view on things, they would put the gankers under the spotlight and let the entire server massacre them.

etc

Arya_Yeshe

Random thought:

When someone goes too deep in ganking, then the character gets subscribed to mob facions, now the gankers will work as mobs in the dungeons, they will defend the dungeons against the carebears in those culturally sensitive landmarks!!!!!

The dungeon runners are STEALING cultural heritage of all those races and indigenous minorities, like the goblins, kobolds, etc.

How can't people see?
Who the dungeon runners think they are? The French Empire looting all the cultural riches from exotic countries? Just to hoard all that in the bank/museum?

Well, gankers could protect such culturally sensitive landmarks and cultural riches

Noaani

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Forcing others out of a game is fine, it's intended gameplay, it is the devs fault this happens!!!!

This is a perfectly valid opinion to have.

What you then can not do - not if you want to be considered a reasonable person - is complain when developers add systems to a game to prevent this happening.

I mean, if you want to say it is the developers fault if they allow players to perform actions that cause others to leave a game, and if you then complain that developers add systems to games to prevent this from happening, what is it you actually expect from developers?

I mean, you are literally saying it is their fault, and then complaining when they try to do something about it.

Gospell1

*weep weep* I got killed *weep weep* I'm out of the game. and why do the project need such players? useless crowd? who will always complain, that player is strong, that player killed my mob, they shouldn’t kill me in this location, the damage is high during the siege, my class is weak, give green players bonuses against pk, let the greens not be stunned, let the greens when they are attacked turn into a giant robot and by pressing one button they kill all PKs within a radius of 50 killometers.

I understand why players are trying to get themselves more protection from "bad" players, I understand why such topics are created "no pvp in freehold", "Greens unable to be CCd". You are a little confusing game genres.
If I played a solo game where I am relaxed, I want to play lounging on an armchair or sofa, I want to watch the plot and from time to time some kind of NPC came running to me and killed me, then I would just be angry and demand that the developers remove this crap . But we're talking about an MMORPG, a competitive game, a game where you're not alone, where thousands of people try to be better than you at everything, and you try to stop them and become even better. every day, every minute, every second you are trying to become stronger than others, and it doesn’t matter if you kill the dragon better than others, or you kill better than others in the arena. Recently, mmo game developers have been trying to attract solo players to their games, so they are introducing restrictions on pvp players in every possible way. I want to give athletics as an example. You see, there is professional running, where everything is tied to the competition. There is amateur running, everything is tied to relaxation, health and joy. And now imagine that amateur and professional running have been mixed for many years. Where amateurs were the priority. And finally, the competition was announced as a priority for professional players. It seems that everyone should understand what this means, but messages began to appear on the forum "what do these professionals allow themselves?" ,"make it so that they can't run fast", "I want to feel safe from professionals" and so on. No, I'm not saying that amateur running is bad, it's great, but it's different. I just think that if amateurs decide to participate in professional running, then they should accept the rules, not run around complaining and begging for bonuses from the sports committee. And just collect your balls in a fist and start competing for an honest without bonuses for yourself. It will be difficult, there will be defeats, but in the end victory will come

ps I'm sorry, I don't know how to depict tears in English. In no way did I mean to offend runners. I want to believe that intrepid will continue to support free pvp in his project without any restrictions, despite letters from amateur running

Noaani

Gospell wrote: »

I want to believe that intrepid will continue to support free pvp in his project without any restrictions, despite letters from amateur running

That has literally never been a thing Intrepid were doing with Ashes.

PvP has had restrictions since the kickstarter.

On the 12th of May, 2017 (very nearly 6 years ago), Intrepid said that the intention of Ashes was to not be a gank box. That right there tells you that PvP will be restricted, because unrestricted PvP will always be a gank box.

Gospell1

Noaani wrote: »

Gospell wrote: »

I want to believe that intrepid will continue to support free pvp in his project without any restrictions, despite letters from amateur running

That has literally never been a thing Intrepid were doing with Ashes.

PvP has had restrictions since the kickstarter.

On the 12th of May, 2017 (very nearly 6 years ago), Intrepid said that the intention of Ashes was to not be a gank box. That right there tells you that PvP will be restricted, because unrestricted PvP will always be a gank box.

We are talking about different things. by free pvp i mean that there will be no system restrictions on pvp. I understand that there will be safe zones in cities

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