Gospell wrote: » daveywavey wrote: » Gospell wrote: » it's not fair when the first one can block you and the second one can't. Everyone should have an equal chance. That is, if I want to attack you, then I cannot use the control skill, but can you do it? Don't you think it's just not fair to give one an edge over the other? By the way, it is logical to start your gang from the stun How is one player surprise-attacking and stun-locking another into death an "equal chance"? So, you open with your attack, the green turns and fights back. They're now purple, not green any more, and so can be CC'd. There is no problem here. Noaani wrote: » Gospell wrote: » it's not fair when the first one can block you and the second one can't. Everyone should have an equal chance. That is, if I want to attack you, then I cannot use the control skill, but can you do it? Don't you think it's just not fair to give one an edge over the other? It isn't an edge, it is a balance. The player making the first attack has the advantage of dealing damage to the attacked player first. The attacked player has the option of CC'ing first. Okay, green player turns around and stun-locking another into death, great balance
daveywavey wrote: » Gospell wrote: » it's not fair when the first one can block you and the second one can't. Everyone should have an equal chance. That is, if I want to attack you, then I cannot use the control skill, but can you do it? Don't you think it's just not fair to give one an edge over the other? By the way, it is logical to start your gang from the stun How is one player surprise-attacking and stun-locking another into death an "equal chance"? So, you open with your attack, the green turns and fights back. They're now purple, not green any more, and so can be CC'd. There is no problem here.
Gospell wrote: » it's not fair when the first one can block you and the second one can't. Everyone should have an equal chance. That is, if I want to attack you, then I cannot use the control skill, but can you do it? Don't you think it's just not fair to give one an edge over the other? By the way, it is logical to start your gang from the stun
Noaani wrote: » Gospell wrote: » it's not fair when the first one can block you and the second one can't. Everyone should have an equal chance. That is, if I want to attack you, then I cannot use the control skill, but can you do it? Don't you think it's just not fair to give one an edge over the other? It isn't an edge, it is a balance. The player making the first attack has the advantage of dealing damage to the attacked player first. The attacked player has the option of CC'ing first.
Gospell wrote: » it's not fair when the first one can block you and the second one can't. Everyone should have an equal chance. That is, if I want to attack you, then I cannot use the control skill, but can you do it? Don't you think it's just not fair to give one an edge over the other?
Azherae wrote: » Gospell wrote: » daveywavey wrote: » Gospell wrote: » it's not fair when the first one can block you and the second one can't. Everyone should have an equal chance. That is, if I want to attack you, then I cannot use the control skill, but can you do it? Don't you think it's just not fair to give one an edge over the other? By the way, it is logical to start your gang from the stun How is one player surprise-attacking and stun-locking another into death an "equal chance"? So, you open with your attack, the green turns and fights back. They're now purple, not green any more, and so can be CC'd. There is no problem here. Noaani wrote: » Gospell wrote: » it's not fair when the first one can block you and the second one can't. Everyone should have an equal chance. That is, if I want to attack you, then I cannot use the control skill, but can you do it? Don't you think it's just not fair to give one an edge over the other? It isn't an edge, it is a balance. The player making the first attack has the advantage of dealing damage to the attacked player first. The attacked player has the option of CC'ing first. Okay, green player turns around and stun-locking another into death, great balance Clearly stunlocking to death was never going to happen, because if it was going to happen, and Green players could be hit with CC, they'd-- ~is hit by CC~
daveywavey wrote: » Gospell wrote: » daveywavey wrote: » Gospell wrote: » it's not fair when the first one can block you and the second one can't. Everyone should have an equal chance. That is, if I want to attack you, then I cannot use the control skill, but can you do it? Don't you think it's just not fair to give one an edge over the other? By the way, it is logical to start your gang from the stun How is one player surprise-attacking and stun-locking another into death an "equal chance"? So, you open with your attack, the green turns and fights back. They're now purple, not green any more, and so can be CC'd. There is no problem here. Noaani wrote: » Gospell wrote: » it's not fair when the first one can block you and the second one can't. Everyone should have an equal chance. That is, if I want to attack you, then I cannot use the control skill, but can you do it? Don't you think it's just not fair to give one an edge over the other? It isn't an edge, it is a balance. The player making the first attack has the advantage of dealing damage to the attacked player first. The attacked player has the option of CC'ing first. Okay, green player turns around and stun-locking another into death, great balance Except you as the attacker are already buffed up, and have all sorts of protections in-place cos you knew the attack was about to happen.
Gospell wrote: » the only thing i want to know is the official message from the devs that the greens can't cc or is it a community suggestion ?
daveywavey wrote: » Gospell wrote: » the only thing i want to know is the official message from the devs that the greens can't cc or is it a community suggestion ? "CC effects do not apply to Non-combatant (green) players. The target of a CC ability must be flagged in order to suffer the CC effects. This prevents players from opening attacks that stun non-combatant players during a pull for example.[9]"https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Crowd_control There's a link at the bottom to a blurry image of a message from Steven where he states this.
NiKr wrote: » Gospell wrote: » I think it's a mistake to allow players to participate pvp in cities. And this is the exact complaining I was talking about. Gospell wrote: » As I understand it, in your scenario, a crowd of players is trying to kill 1 person? In such cases, the player should try to escape, failing that, he will not lose much experience for his death if he remains green. And one of the crowd will become a pk player. The rest is up to you, you can gather people, you can ask your friends or clan to take revenge, this is a social game, you don't have to do everything alone. I've seen this happen a ton of times in L2 with stuns. Now we don't know whether Steven will keep that particular interaction, but I personally hope that he won't, because I know for sure how annoying and frustrating it is.
Gospell wrote: » I think it's a mistake to allow players to participate pvp in cities.
Gospell wrote: » As I understand it, in your scenario, a crowd of players is trying to kill 1 person? In such cases, the player should try to escape, failing that, he will not lose much experience for his death if he remains green. And one of the crowd will become a pk player. The rest is up to you, you can gather people, you can ask your friends or clan to take revenge, this is a social game, you don't have to do everything alone.
Arya_Yeshe wrote: » People don't leave because dying a few times, they leave because of hopelesness and grinds, it's the devs fault if this happens
Arya_Yeshe wrote: » Arya_Yeshe wrote: » People don't leave because dying a few times, they leave because of hopelesness and grinds, it's the devs fault if this happens Exactly, couldn't agree more!
Arya_Yeshe wrote: » People get weird feelings when they die when they think they weren't supposed to die, they can't cope with dying where they think they weren't supposed to die This is why they never leave a game for dying 10-20 times in a dungeon, they think it is ok dying there, as if it was the right place for dying and in those conditions
NiKr wrote: » Arya_Yeshe wrote: » People get weird feelings when they die when they think they weren't supposed to die, they can't cope with dying where they think they weren't supposed to die This is why they never leave a game for dying 10-20 times in a dungeon, they think it is ok dying there, as if it was the right place for dying and in those conditions Because in most games those mobs are scripted, so it always comes down purely to your own skill and you learning the fight. Pvp is never predictable (outside of top lvl arena) and quite often super unfair because you're fighting against bigger forces or a much stronger foe who just wants to shit on weaker people. Going into a dungeon to kill mobs is also completely planned, while dying to a PKer while you're gathering plants is never planned, which is way more annoying to the victim. This is why I want to minimize the impact on greens, while still allow PKers to kill them. And the fact that greens can't be CCed will most likely lead to more good pvp, while the opposite would just remove all greens from the game which would then snowball the playerbase into amounts that can barely support the game.
NiKr wrote: » Arya_Yeshe wrote: » People get weird feelings when they die when they think they weren't supposed to die, they can't cope with dying where they think they weren't supposed to die This is why they never leave a game for dying 10-20 times in a dungeon, they think it is ok dying there, as if it was the right place for dying and in those conditions And the fact that greens can't be CCed will most likely lead to more good pvp
Gospell wrote: » to bad pvp*
NiKr wrote: » Gospell wrote: » to bad pvp* Unless you just want to kill people that never fight back - no, it'll lead to more good pvp. If greens could be CCed, they'll never fight back because they'll get overwhelmed by CCs and attacks before they can even return a hit, so they'll never even try. But if they can respond with a CC after getting attacked - there's gonna be more people willing to fight back. This design will create more pvp situations instead of pure PKing. Ashes aims to have a 30s-1m time to kill balancing. If your target responds to your attack with a CC and an attack, you'll literally be at equal points in the fight. While if you could CC them right after your first hit, that just means that you can make 2 or even 3 hits against them, at which point they'll never catch up so most wouldn't even try. CCs will also have diminishing returns so, no, a green won't just stunlock you in response to your hit.
Arya_Yeshe wrote: » When this green's cant be cced rule came about, did Steven/Intrepid say why this band-aid was created? What they want to achieve with this?
Gospell wrote: » do you forget about resistances and chances? everything that you described works only in the game will be 100% chance cc. I have mentioned them more than once. I know that you played L2, tell me how often you could stun an orc with a bow? how often could you hang anchor playing as a magician against players with jewelry? how often did you stun against players with majestic armor? Well, it's okay, now I will attack the player and wait until he turns purple, then I will sharply press the control skill button, nothing will change at all, just the scheme is now a little different xD
NiKr wrote: » Arya_Yeshe wrote: » When this green's cant be cced rule came about, did Steven/Intrepid say why this band-aid was created? What they want to achieve with this? Steven revealed it after a video doubting the system. But as been stated previously, L2 had the same mechanic, with the only difference being CCs with an attack attribute, but we don't know whether absolutely all CCs in Ashes won't work against greens or if there'll be exceptions. Gospell wrote: » do you forget about resistances and chances? everything that you described works only in the game will be 100% chance cc. I have mentioned them more than once. I know that you played L2, tell me how often you could stun an orc with a bow? how often could you hang anchor playing as a magician against players with jewelry? how often did you stun against players with majestic armor? Well, it's okay, now I will attack the player and wait until he turns purple, then I will sharply press the control skill button, nothing will change at all, just the scheme is now a little different xD And that non-100% chance of CCs still benefits the first attacker, so again, the pvper/PKer will still win more fights than the green. The only reason to want CCs against greens is if you want to abuse that mechanic and kill them through mobs w/o getting corruption. You are the one who does the first hit so there's no reason for you to CC your target, because they wouldn't even know that you're about to hit them. And if you're trying to just PK someone, Intrepid is trying to limit your ability to do that as much as possible, while encouraging the victim to fight back instead. The system is designed to encourage pvp and reduce PKing.
