Stalwart wrote: » The progress after all that work is rewarding.
Noaani wrote: » Dygz wrote: » Arya_Yeshe wrote: » Parsing is cancer, people will do anything just to look good in score It is the same shitty system EVE Online has, EVE has the zkillboard, so people do 0.1% damage on a target, then they shoot the next target... then the next... so people end up killing no one but they share thousands of kills as if they were some kind of PvP god. Dudes are just F1 monkeys and kill whores repeatdly scoring 0.1% damage on every target I would rather people measure their build in a tranning room and then leave it behind, with no parsing... no real time dps meters... otherwise people play for scoring and not for doing their jobs in the raids and in the fights Should be trying to synergize abilities with others in the group to maximize strengths and shore up weaknesses - as well as "doing their job". (And, we shouldn't need to rely on dps meters or trackers to figure that out.) In order for people to maximize strengths and shore up weaknesses and not rely on a combat tracker to do so, those strengths and weaknesses need to be blatantly obvious. The problem with blatantly obvious strengths and weaknesses is that it pigeonholes classes. The absolute best case scenario with the kind of class setup is that groups will be forced to look for specific classes to finish off their group, so as to plug in the obvious weaknesses the group has. Keep in mind with this as well, an aspect of a class that matters to content needs to be multiplied by four in order for players to notice it at all. What may look like a small issue to players is in fact a gaping hole to content. The above does of course assume difficult content that challenges players.
Dygz wrote: » Arya_Yeshe wrote: » Parsing is cancer, people will do anything just to look good in score It is the same shitty system EVE Online has, EVE has the zkillboard, so people do 0.1% damage on a target, then they shoot the next target... then the next... so people end up killing no one but they share thousands of kills as if they were some kind of PvP god. Dudes are just F1 monkeys and kill whores repeatdly scoring 0.1% damage on every target I would rather people measure their build in a tranning room and then leave it behind, with no parsing... no real time dps meters... otherwise people play for scoring and not for doing their jobs in the raids and in the fights Should be trying to synergize abilities with others in the group to maximize strengths and shore up weaknesses - as well as "doing their job". (And, we shouldn't need to rely on dps meters or trackers to figure that out.)
Arya_Yeshe wrote: » Parsing is cancer, people will do anything just to look good in score It is the same shitty system EVE Online has, EVE has the zkillboard, so people do 0.1% damage on a target, then they shoot the next target... then the next... so people end up killing no one but they share thousands of kills as if they were some kind of PvP god. Dudes are just F1 monkeys and kill whores repeatdly scoring 0.1% damage on every target I would rather people measure their build in a tranning room and then leave it behind, with no parsing... no real time dps meters... otherwise people play for scoring and not for doing their jobs in the raids and in the fights
Arya_Yeshe wrote: » Even though there is nothing about it in the wiki or in the streams that I watched I wonder if this will never happen. Maybe it will
Mag7spy wrote: » I'd simply say you don't need a tracker for that you do the work and figure it out yourself overtime. Using a tool makes it easier and takes difficulty away since you have the answer instead of having to work though it, socialize and have experience to find the best answer over time.
Stalwart wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » I'd simply say you don't need a tracker for that you do the work and figure it out yourself overtime. Using a tool makes it easier and takes difficulty away since you have the answer instead of having to work though it, socialize and have experience to find the best answer over time. These things can be done manually. It's just so incredibly tedious it's ridiculous when the game already does it anyway. It's like having a secretary record every death, the time and what caused it. Record all your outgoing and incoming damage numbers. How much damage did that cause when you had this skill up, what about that skill? You can record your raid and watch the video to find all these things. It's just a ridiculous amount of work when the game should just give you a combat log that can be parsed through instead. After 3 hours of raiding it's too much information. The game has that information anyway, just let us see it.
Stalwart wrote: » These things can be done manually. It's just so incredibly tedious it's ridiculous when the game already does it anyway. After 3 hours of raiding it's too much information to keep track of while playing. The game has that information anyway, just let us see it.
Mag7spy wrote: » All things should take work, there should not be a quick way to answer anything even more so for end game content.
Xnate13X wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » All things should take work, there should not be a quick way to answer anything even more so for end game content. So, we should manually hammer in every shingle when building a roof instead of using a nail gun because it should take more work for 0 reason whatsoever. O.o
Mag7spy wrote: » You've grown complacent with games wanting things to be done for you then understanding figuring things on your own and doing all the work required. AoC also has a combat log and I'm sure you will know damage done to you and damage you do and you can use that information to figure out what you need personally.. There there shouldn't be point where you start viewing other players around you just because they are in your party so you can create a dps meter out of it.
Stalwart wrote: » Xnate13X wrote: » You've grown complacent with games wanting things to be done for you then understanding figuring things on your own and doing all the work required. AoC also has a combat log and I'm sure you will know damage done to you and damage you do and you can use that information to figure out what you need personally.. There there shouldn't be point where you start viewing other players around you just because they are in your party so you can create a dps meter out of it. There is a huge point. In endgame team based combat it's about team synergy, not just you. Timing everyone's abilities has a huge impact on each person's performance. It's not a group of individuals it's a team. If you see a drop in your incoming healing, damage out, damage in it could be a million factors that you would have no clue about. I've seen games without resources available to end game raiders. Those raiders will figure out a way around it and if you want to be an endgame raider you will be expected to work with the team. It's just extra leg work and annoyance for everyone when it should just be provided. In ashes, based on similar cases, I would expect end game raiders to upload their personal combat logs and provide videos of their runs. More work for the raider and a ton more work for the raid leader. Something that shouldn't need to be done in (insert release year here). I'm also skeptical about how much a strictly personal log can actually provide if it's deprived of any outer sources.
Xnate13X wrote: » You've grown complacent with games wanting things to be done for you then understanding figuring things on your own and doing all the work required. AoC also has a combat log and I'm sure you will know damage done to you and damage you do and you can use that information to figure out what you need personally.. There there shouldn't be point where you start viewing other players around you just because they are in your party so you can create a dps meter out of it.
Mag7spy wrote: » Everyone knows its about the group, still don't need to be viewing the people in the group and trying to dps meter them will never agree with that. All that mean nothing half the time since people do what is best to look good, if there is a issue in the group its up to you to figure that out and help your members without needing to watch numbers on every single member every second. Its goal is just to min max through logs than figure stuff out in game and during gameplay.
Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Dygz wrote: » Arya_Yeshe wrote: » Parsing is cancer, people will do anything just to look good in score It is the same shitty system EVE Online has, EVE has the zkillboard, so people do 0.1% damage on a target, then they shoot the next target... then the next... so people end up killing no one but they share thousands of kills as if they were some kind of PvP god. Dudes are just F1 monkeys and kill whores repeatdly scoring 0.1% damage on every target I would rather people measure their build in a tranning room and then leave it behind, with no parsing... no real time dps meters... otherwise people play for scoring and not for doing their jobs in the raids and in the fights Should be trying to synergize abilities with others in the group to maximize strengths and shore up weaknesses - as well as "doing their job". (And, we shouldn't need to rely on dps meters or trackers to figure that out.) In order for people to maximize strengths and shore up weaknesses and not rely on a combat tracker to do so, those strengths and weaknesses need to be blatantly obvious. The problem with blatantly obvious strengths and weaknesses is that it pigeonholes classes. The absolute best case scenario with the kind of class setup is that groups will be forced to look for specific classes to finish off their group, so as to plug in the obvious weaknesses the group has. Keep in mind with this as well, an aspect of a class that matters to content needs to be multiplied by four in order for players to notice it at all. What may look like a small issue to players is in fact a gaping hole to content. The above does of course assume difficult content that challenges players. So I'm guessing your argument is a lot of smaller details will be something players don't realize and add up, and only way for it to be clear so they know is to make it obvious and a lot easier. I'd simply say you don't need a tracker for that you do the work and figure it out yourself overtime. Using a tool makes it easier and takes difficulty away since you have the answer instead of having to work though it, socialize and have experience to find the best answer over time.
Dygz wrote: » I want to go through the hardest content with people I enjoy playing with - couldn't care less about combat logs. Nor would I want to play with people who do.
Depraved wrote: » i wonder how players improved before there were any dps meters or in games that didn't have them
Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » i wonder how players improved before there were any dps meters or in games that didn't have them 'DPS Meters' technically came before the games that use them, so this has never been a situation that mattered. But for the games that don't have them but could theoretically benefit from them, they probably relied on either 'a programmer that didn't reveal they were using one' (there wouldn't really be a reason to tell your play partners about your detailed hours of writing a parser since most people don't care), or one of those people with the 'talent' to do the same thing without the tool. Or the last way which was popular for a bit. Tons of people assume something is impossible, then one group figures it out basically by luck since there's less competition, less interference, etc. Some people like it this way.
Depraved wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » i wonder how players improved before there were any dps meters or in games that didn't have them 'DPS Meters' technically came before the games that use them, so this has never been a situation that mattered. But for the games that don't have them but could theoretically benefit from them, they probably relied on either 'a programmer that didn't reveal they were using one' (there wouldn't really be a reason to tell your play partners about your detailed hours of writing a parser since most people don't care), or one of those people with the 'talent' to do the same thing without the tool. Or the last way which was popular for a bit. Tons of people assume something is impossible, then one group figures it out basically by luck since there's less competition, less interference, etc. Some people like it this way. I have played games without dps meters o-o and people (and me) improve in those games. so how did we do it?
Mag7spy wrote: » https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_ZBmBisWQs&t=786s
