Hay Steve, have you seen this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJaMGRXfvis

Who here would love to see this be an option for Ashes? I know I would. AI Voice Over can be done cheaply and well. This would add so much depth for people who love story and voice acting.

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nanfoodle

KingDDD wrote: »

Let's add more features to a project that's already behind schedule. Nothing can go wrong!

One guy on his own set up the AI Voice Acting for all off Classic WoW and it turned out really well. AI does most of the heavy lifting.

Noaani

Probably the biggest single issue with AI voicing specifically is that no one currently know what that will do to the games copyright.

There are cases going on right now to determine if what can not be protected by copyright is the entire work, or just the AI generated part of it,but regardless of how these cases go, if Intrepid use AI voice, they hold no copyright at all over the voices of the characters in their game (that is the best case scenario without significant changes world wide to copyright law).

To me, this would be enough to nope right out of the idea.

daveywavey

The other alternative is to run a competition with the playerbase where the entrants record themselves saying a set of lines, and then Intrepid pick the best few to volunteer their voices. Keeps the cost down, and everyone entering knows they'll be doing it for free and not to expect anything.

Or, you know, just not have voice acting of text.

Goalid

This technology is rolling out fast, and quite literally all of Intrepid's competition is looking into it. It's not going to cause any additional time to produce the game, since the person they would hire to set up and check the AI voice acting wouldn't be involved in any of the actual creation of text or storylines. Could literally be a 2-person project, one person sets up the AI voice acting and the other person is an editor making sure inflections are high quality.

If Intrepid doesn't launch with this technology in 2026, they'll be behind every other MMORPG at that point. Hell, even indie projects will probably have some cheap 3rd party software they use for it, that's how much a game changer this technology is.

Most people I've seen against this technology pretend the voice acting is unbearable or bad, when it's actually amazing quality compared to the last 10 years of computer-generated voices. Other people I've seen against it are the "AI bad" crowd. This technology isn't even really stealing jobs, MMOs simply don't hire voice actors to have all their quests voiced. SWTOR paid an unbelievable price to get everything voiced. And Intrepid could still hire real voice actors to have the main quest and the Gods voiced.

Really there's nothing to lose with using this technology to have every piece of dialogue voiced. It will also go a very long way for accessibility which should be important for Intrepid. It's perfect for an innovative game like Ashes of Creation.

Goalid

Noaani wrote: »

Probably the biggest single issue with AI voicing specifically is that no one currently know what that will do to the games copyright.

There are cases going on right now to determine if what can not be protected by copyright is the entire work, or just the AI generated part of it,but regardless of how these cases go, if Intrepid use AI voice, they hold no copyright at all over the voices of the characters in their game (that is the best case scenario without significant changes world wide to copyright law).

To me, this would be enough to nope right out of the idea.

Nobody cares about not having the copyright to the voice of some random NPC. They'll hire real voice actors for any important lines and voices they care about.

nanfoodle

Goalid wrote: »

This technology is rolling out fast, and quite literally all of Intrepid's competition is looking into it. It's not going to cause any additional time to produce the game, since the person they would hire to set up and check the AI voice acting wouldn't be involved in any of the actual creation of text or storylines. Could literally be a 2-person project, one person sets up the AI voice acting and the other person is an editor making sure inflections are high quality.

If Intrepid doesn't launch with this technology in 2026, they'll be behind every other MMORPG at that point. Hell, even indie projects will probably have some cheap 3rd party software they use for it, that's how much a game changer this technology is.

Most people I've seen against this technology pretend the voice acting is unbearable or bad, when it's actually amazing quality compared to the last 10 years of computer-generated voices. Other people I've seen against it are the "AI bad" crowd. This technology isn't even really stealing jobs, MMOs simply don't hire voice actors to have all their quests voiced. SWTOR paid an unbelievable price to get everything voiced. And Intrepid could still hire real voice actors to have the main quest and the Gods voiced.

Really there's nothing to lose with using this technology to have every piece of dialogue voiced. It will also go a very long way for accessibility which should be important for Intrepid. It's perfect for an innovative game like Ashes of Creation.

Thats a really good point. If you are trying to be a AAA MMO and indy studios are putting out fully voiced games with AI and you launch without that feature. It could cause blow back and bad reviews. IS did a great thing jumping on UE5 and this would be a mistake to miss out on a big upgrade for the game with relatively low time and money needed to roll out.

Gizban

nanfoodle wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJaMGRXfvis

Who here would love to see this be an option for Ashes? I know I would. AI Voice Over can be done cheaply and well. This would add so much depth for people who love story and voice acting.

Watched the video.. that is pretty sweet! I thought it was really good, I've heard MUCH worse VOs.

I'm a more story focused player but even I'll skip text walls.

I wholeheartedly support this quest!

Voeltz

I think it's unnecessary and of least importance, but if it can be done quickly, effectively and for cheap I don't see why not. It definitely adds value to the game IF it doesn't sound like shit, it's just that most people skip all the dialog anyways, myself included. I don't really care about the lore or NPC's stories because they are usually boring and unimportant. I wouldn't mind hearing the dialog while I'm on my way to complete the quest though. I guess it also depends on how intricate the quests are. If there are choices involved in the dialog which determine the outcome or the direction and require a thoughtful response, then yes, I would like there to be voices so I don't have to sit there and read walls of text to play the damn game.

the examples in the video sound pretty good. I don't know exactly how it works, but if there's a way for them to generate these voices, modify them and/or leave out the ones that sound bad, it would be an incredibly useful tool for game development. I'm sure it will only get better from here. It's come a long way

BlackBrony

Screw VA. For me it does nothing. VA matters when you get attached to a story, its consequences and NPCs. Who are you gonna get attached to in Ashes? To the NPC giving you the same quest 10 times over? Ashes is by definition, insular.
Yes, you can explore the world, but the idea is to stay in close proximity of an area unless you travel far away. So VA does'n't do much to improve immersion

catibrie

I love the idea, as I love stories. This would be such a simple thing to set up with toggles, as in Classic WoW. You want this turn it on, if you dont. Toggle it off. What a tag line for Ashes. Now using AI technology to give you a better game. MMO first! Ashes sets a new trend. The list goes on and on. This could get eyes looking at the game again as AI is the biggest news.

Noaani

Goalid wrote: »

This technology is rolling out fast, and quite literally all of Intrepid's competition is looking into it.

They are looking in to it, but no one is doing anything yet - not until they know how copyright law will see it in the future.

Goalid wrote: »

Nobody cares about not having the copyright to the voice of some random NPC. They'll hire real voice actors for any important lines and voices they care about.

The problem is, as of today, any work in which an AI is used to produce a portion of the whole, the whole can not be copyrighted.

In other words, until the case law is settled, there is a chance that if Intrepid use AI voice to produce, the game
as an whole entity wont be able to have a copyright (while possible, this is unlikely - but possible is bad enough at this point).

The suggested best practice right now is to disclose which parts of a work are produced by AI, so that once this all sorted out copyright can be applied appropriately. However, there is no guarantee as to how that will be.

It may well be that by the time Ashes releases this will all be sorted, and depending on how things fall, this may be a good idea - but as of today, it isn't worth it.

arsnn

BlackBrony wrote: »

Screw VA. For me it does nothing. VA matters when you get attached to a story, its consequences and NPCs. Who are you gonna get attached to in Ashes? To the NPC giving you the same quest 10 times over? Ashes is by definition, insular.
Yes, you can explore the world, but the idea is to stay in close proximity of an area unless you travel far away. So VA does'n't do much to improve immersion

How would you feel about NPC merchants shouting out the items they have in store in nodes?

We know that players can hire merchant NPCs they can place in their market stalls. You could set them to shout out your special offer or rate item and have them be triggered by player proximity or just by some simple intervals.

Noaani

daveywavey wrote: »

The other alternative is to run a competition with the playerbase where the entrants record themselves saying a set of lines, and then Intrepid pick the best few to volunteer their voices. Keeps the cost down, and everyone entering knows they'll be doing it for free and not to expect anything.

Or, you know, just not have voice acting of text.

The problem with this is that literally every line of voice in the game would be recorded differently, with different background noise, reverb etc.

This would be more jarring to most players than poorly acted voicing. It would be like you are talking to one NPC in an open field, then turn around and talk to another who sounds like they are in a cathedral, or in a bathroom - or just generally in some other place.

The end result wouldn't be worth the cost - and that is assuming Intrepid didn't pay a cent for any of it.

Solvryn

People can keep screaming scope creep, but it's a done and paid for project.

I don't think VA is necessary, but it wouldn't be a bad thing either and if AI makes that happen to where someone can just lend their voice for 15 minutes and that can be replicated through the whole damn game why not?

Shit I'd happily lend my voice for the Tulnar.

Dezemi

Noaani wrote: »

daveywavey wrote: »

The other alternative is to run a competition with the playerbase where the entrants record themselves saying a set of lines, and then Intrepid pick the best few to volunteer their voices. Keeps the cost down, and everyone entering knows they'll be doing it for free and not to expect anything.

Or, you know, just not have voice acting of text.

The problem with this is that literally every line of voice in the game would be recorded differently, with different background noise, reverb etc.

This would be more jarring to most players than poorly acted voicing. It would be like you are talking to one NPC in an open field, then turn around and talk to another who sounds like they are in a cathedral, or in a bathroom - or just generally in some other place.

The end result wouldn't be worth the cost - and that is assuming Intrepid didn't pay a cent for any of it.

Absolutely a valid concern.

But! I do already know of people doing this kind of hand out voice acting. There is a YouTuber called Michael Ghelfi that takes recordings from his viewers that he uses for his channel. (All TT players, especially DMs, and people that just like epic fantasy music/ambience in general should REALLY check out his channel!)

So, by filtering out any voices that does not hold up to standard and then tweaking the ones that do, it is fairly easy to manage them all into the same tune. This DOES however require a workload on Intrepid's side - but it will be less costly (... yet one could counter with time is money and all that). Bottom line is: perfectly possible to do it in a good way. But it does require some editing time. In other words: not a suitable goal for pre-alpha 2 and perhaps not even before official launch.

Noaani

Dezmerizing wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

daveywavey wrote: »

The other alternative is to run a competition with the playerbase where the entrants record themselves saying a set of lines, and then Intrepid pick the best few to volunteer their voices. Keeps the cost down, and everyone entering knows they'll be doing it for free and not to expect anything.

Or, you know, just not have voice acting of text.

The problem with this is that literally every line of voice in the game would be recorded differently, with different background noise, reverb etc.

This would be more jarring to most players than poorly acted voicing. It would be like you are talking to one NPC in an open field, then turn around and talk to another who sounds like they are in a cathedral, or in a bathroom - or just generally in some other place.

The end result wouldn't be worth the cost - and that is assuming Intrepid didn't pay a cent for any of it.

Absolutely a valid concern.

But! I do already know of people doing this kind of hand out voice acting. There is a YouTuber called Michael Ghelfi that takes recordings from his viewers that he uses for his channel. (All TT players, especially DMs, and people that just like epic fantasy music/ambience in general should REALLY check out his channel!)

So, by filtering out any voices that does not hold up to standard and then tweaking the ones that do, it is fairly easy to manage them all into the same tune. This DOES however require a workload on Intrepid's side - but it will be less costly (... yet one could counter with time is money and all that). Bottom line is: perfectly possible to do it in a good way. But it does require some editing time. In other words: not a suitable goal for pre-alpha 2 and perhaps not even before official launch.

It is indeed technically possible, but I have a challenge for you.

Load up All of Me by John Legend on YouTube. Put a decent set of headphones on (not necessary, but helps). Then listen.

When you get 4 bars in to the song, before any lyrics start, there is a drastic change in the recording. It is nothing short of jarring - and on the off chance you like this song and never noticed it, it isn't overly hyperbolic to state that the above may well have ruined the song for you.

This is the kind of thing that happens when you record in different locations (not specifically saying that is what happened here, but it sure seems like it).

Now if a music production company with all of it's experience, equipment and knowledge can't fix this in something that they recorded themselves, what hope does a company without that equipment and experience have when trying to clean up recordings not made by them?

If it was cheaper to do this to an acceptable quality than hiring out a recording studio and doing it that way, more companies would be doing it.

daveywavey

Noaani wrote: »

daveywavey wrote: »

The other alternative is to run a competition with the playerbase where the entrants record themselves saying a set of lines, and then Intrepid pick the best few to volunteer their voices. Keeps the cost down, and everyone entering knows they'll be doing it for free and not to expect anything.

Or, you know, just not have voice acting of text.

The problem with this is that literally every line of voice in the game would be recorded differently, with different background noise, reverb etc.

This would be more jarring to most players than poorly acted voicing. It would be like you are talking to one NPC in an open field, then turn around and talk to another who sounds like they are in a cathedral, or in a bathroom - or just generally in some other place.

The end result wouldn't be worth the cost - and that is assuming Intrepid didn't pay a cent for any of it.

Well, that'd just be for the competition. For the actual recording, it'd be up to those winners to get themselves to some sort of sound studio where it could be done properly.

kevin286

The quality of storytelling matters greatly to me. I cant play a game that doesn't have a good story. So yes Voice over would be nice.

Noaani

daveywavey wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

daveywavey wrote: »

The other alternative is to run a competition with the playerbase where the entrants record themselves saying a set of lines, and then Intrepid pick the best few to volunteer their voices. Keeps the cost down, and everyone entering knows they'll be doing it for free and not to expect anything.

Or, you know, just not have voice acting of text.

The problem with this is that literally every line of voice in the game would be recorded differently, with different background noise, reverb etc.

This would be more jarring to most players than poorly acted voicing. It would be like you are talking to one NPC in an open field, then turn around and talk to another who sounds like they are in a cathedral, or in a bathroom - or just generally in some other place.

The end result wouldn't be worth the cost - and that is assuming Intrepid didn't pay a cent for any of it.

Well, that'd just be for the competition. For the actual recording, it'd be up to those winners to get themselves to some sort of sound studio where it could be done properly.

Wait, so you enter a competition for voicing a character, and the prize is that you can then spend $10k to record your lines?

nanfoodle

catibrie wrote: »

I love the idea, as I love stories. This would be such a simple thing to set up with toggles, as in Classic WoW. You want this turn it on, if you dont. Toggle it off. What a tag line for Ashes. Now using AI technology to give you a better game. MMO first! Ashes sets a new trend. The list goes on and on. This could get eyes looking at the game again as AI is the biggest news.

I agree with this 100%. This could add some awesome press to Ashes. First MMO to add AI to its game. What kind of traction could that add? How many backers?

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