Any adventuring experience gain removes corruption - Thoughts?

I thought this might be the case which is why I asked two shows in a row (Thank you for answering Steven

)

Any experience that a player gains that contributes to the adventuring level will remove corruption. This includes crafting and although not mentioned presumably gathering and questing, essentially anything experience gain.

I am still processing the scenarios for this. What does everyone think? I feel like the immediate discussions will be turning in quests immediately after turning red or running to a freehold house and crafting away. I am not immediately for nor am I immediately against this idea. Still processing.

This is also means that like gathering experience, crafting experiences appears to increase your overall adventuring level, so no level 1 master crafters.

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Azherae

Opposed.

Entirely.

It's probably not enough to make it an issue, but I'm still really opposed to this unless quest givers refuse to interact with the Corrupted. It could obviously be 'balanced to work', but I don't want it to be 'balanced to work', I want it to not happen.

Ludullu

As long as the majority of npcs are in the center of nodes rather than in the middle of bumfuck nowhere - I'm all for this.

Any XP we gain adds to the Node's XP and prevents its decay. So, in a way, a PKer who's removing their corruption by XP gaining is helping out whichever node they're in. This could also be additionally balanced by changing values of corruption removal within different nodes (mainly "victim's node removes more").

The biggest abuse I could see with this is doing artisan stuff within your freehold's buildings. If people can just grind some random activity there and remove their corruption - it breaks the whole damn system. Maybe this is one of the reasons why we can now pvp in the footprint of our freehold.

Potential solutions to that could be complete prohibition of PKer artisanry within freeholds; always opened doors if there's a PK inside (and other people can attack PKers even within the building); or, my preferred method, withholding the XP gained within a freehold and trading it to an npc within/near a node center to remove your corruption.

That last one would probably be a bit too convoluted for most people, but I think it would counterbalance the complete risk-freedom of freehold artisanry with super high danger of going near a node center when you're red.

Lash

I never want to see a situation where your guild gets mad at you for crafting in your free time because you could have used it to remove exp debt. Some forms of exp gain should just ignore exp debt and corruption.

Fantmx

Azherae wrote: »

Opposed.

Entirely.

It's probably not enough to make it an issue, but I'm still really opposed to this unless quest givers refuse to interact with the Corrupted. It could obviously be 'balanced to work', but I don't want it to be 'balanced to work', I want it to not happen.

That is certainly one way to solve the quest exp possibility, and not a bad one.

Fantmx

Lashing wrote: »

I never want to see a situation where your guild gets mad at you for crafting in your free time because you could have used it to remove exp debt. Some forms of exp gain should just ignore exp debt and corruption.

I had not looked at it this way.

Fantmx

NiKr wrote: »

As long as the majority of npcs are in the center of nodes rather than in the middle of bumfuck nowhere - I'm all for this.

Any XP we gain adds to the Node's XP and prevents its decay. So, in a way, a PKer who's removing their corruption by XP gaining is helping out whichever node they're in. This could also be additionally balanced by changing values of corruption removal within different nodes (mainly "victim's node removes more").

The biggest abuse I could see with this is doing artisan stuff within your freehold's buildings. If people can just grind some random activity there and remove their corruption - it breaks the whole damn system. Maybe this is one of the reasons why we can now pvp in the footprint of our freehold.

Potential solutions to that could be complete prohibition of PKer artisanry within freeholds; always opened doors if there's a PK inside (and other people can attack PKers even within the building); or, my preferred method, withholding the XP gained within a freehold and trading it to an npc within/near a node center to remove your corruption.

That last one would probably be a bit too convoluted for most people, but I think it would counterbalance the complete risk-freedom of freehold artisanry with super high danger of going near a node center when you're red.

The PvP change was to the lot itself and not the house correct? Inside the housing structure is still safe from PvP I think.

George_Black

I cant believe Stevens answer. It doesnt make sense to break the system like that.
I guess it's a small win for murderhobos who like to knit or grow pumpkins.

I apologize to the OP for thinking of his question as stupid last month, but he was on to something. I hope the devs dont go through with this.

Okeydoke

I don't really have enough relevant info to care one way or the other. I haven't watched the stream yet either so I probably don't have the full context of what was said.

You can't use any storage or player trade while corrupted. So there will be no tapping into a stockpile of mats to craft away large amounts corruption. You'd have to go chop down trees, return to freehold and process, and repeat. And you'd have to do that a lot if Ashes uses a similar gathering/processing xp model as other games. XP gain is usually very tiny in other games from gathering/processing. You're probably going to run out of inventory space long before you grind off the corruption.

But that's what I'm talking about, we don't know. We don't have the relevant info yet. How much XP will gathering/processing/crafting give in Ashes. Don't know.

Quest stacking, we don't know either. We don't know the structure of the quest system. Will it really be possible to quest stack like that. If it's possible once, will it be possible again. Can you just repeatedly quest stack, are quests that plentiful and available, no idea. Either way, the player still has to turn in those quests, likely to multiple different quest givers, the risk is still there for him in that process. But is it enough risk? Who knows.

SamSlade

As someone who likes PvP and is still on the fence about this game, this seems like a really positive concept; the biggest challenge most PKers will find here is the boredom of having to grind to do normal stuff. This is good for dynamic, incidental PvP and a potentially HUGE time sink for people who want to be dedicated griefers.

As someone who likes PvP and really dislikes pointless PKing this is actually pretty positive

Ludullu

Fantmx wrote: »

The PvP change was to the lot itself and not the house correct? Inside the housing structure is still safe from PvP I think.

Yeah, currently the house is safe. I just see it not being safe for the Reds as a way to remove the abuse of "I got a ton of corruption... let me sit in this completely protected place and grind it all off".

Ludullu

Okeydoke wrote: »

You can't use any storage or player trade while corrupted. So there will be no tapping into a stockpile of mats to craft away large amounts corruption. You'd have to go chop down trees, return to freehold and process, and repeat. And you'd have to do that a lot if Ashes uses a similar gathering/processing xp model as other games. XP gain is usually very tiny in other games from gathering/processing. You're probably going to run out of inventory space long before you grind off the corruption.

Right, I forgot that they changed the private storage as well. PKers will be so damn fucked that no one will PK

I personally don't like that.

Okeydoke

NiKr wrote: »

Right, I forgot that they changed the private storage as well. PKers will be so damn fucked that no one will PK I personally don't like that.

I don't think people realize how little pking there will be. It will be almost nonexistent. There will be some elite powerhouse guilds who can protect their reds, and you'll probably almost never be able to kill their reds. Everyone else who tries to pk will be weeded out very quickly. That's just what I see. There's too many unknowns to say it definitively, but that's what I see.

I'm not so much worried about the pkers, moreso the way that this system will allow people to just ignore the openworld flagging system and openworld pvp altogether. But I was kind of looking forward to being pked every now and then, to feel that danger.

SamSlade

"You can't use any storage or player trade while corrupted"

Didn't know about this. Terrible idea, seems far too care bare focused. This is basically saying 'PvP makes you a borderline NPC'. Have limits that make sense, utterly removing player agency as a punishment mechanic is short sighted.

Force playe5rs to travel a fair distance to earn xp, but don't lock all storage... terrible idea,

Okeydoke

SamSlade wrote: »

Didn't know about this.

Yes I believe the lore explanation behind it was that Nymelia, the goddess of chests, drawers and armoirs, hates corrupted. So corrupted lose their ability to pull on drawer knobs to open them. Jim, the god of door knobs likes corrupted though so corrupted still know how to open the door to their house.

But with todays answer, that means the god of crafting stations, Bob, likes corrupted, so corrupted still know how to use crafting stations.

I just made all of that up. But yeah the player storage thing was a recently answered question, last livestream I think. The player trading thing has been that way for a long time though I believe.

Songcaller

So, we can power level our crafters but we can't power level each other through mobs?

Nerror

I really don't think this is a big deal.

Compared to grinding XP by killing monsters, crafting XP will be a small fraction of that. On top of that, if you can't access your personal storage, the amount of crafting you can do in safety is very limited. If it takes a couple of hours of grinding mobs to remove corruption, I guesstimate it'd take many days of crafting to remove corruption that way. And you can't trade with other players either to get materials.

When you are corrupted NPCs see you as a monster, and that means you can't interact with quest givers or any other NPC. It's not just the guards that will see you as such.

Maybe if there are those public quests where you get the quest as soon enter the area, and some XP upon completion of the objectives, can you gain quest XP that way, but that opens you up to attack from the other people also doing that public quest, so I see no issue with that.

Azherae

Nerror wrote: »

I really don't think this is a big deal.

Compared to grinding XP by killing monsters, crafting XP will be a small fraction of that. On top of that, if you can't access your personal storage, the amount of crafting you can do in safety is very limited. If it takes a couple of hours of grinding mobs to remove corruption, I guesstimate it'd take many days of crafting to remove corruption that way. And you can't trade with other players either to get materials.

When you are corrupted NPCs see you as a monster, and that means you can't interact with quest givers or any other NPC. It's not just the guards that will see you as such.

Maybe if there are those public quests where you get the quest as soon enter the area, and some XP upon completion of the objectives, can you gain quest XP that way, but that opens you up to attack from the other people also doing that public quest, so I see no issue with that.

If that thing about NPCs not interacting with you is true (source please?) I have less issues, but I still feel like this is just 'opening the gates for a lot of things that are basically going to be like exploits' that don't need to be enabled as possibilities that would then have to be Whack-a-moled.

Particularly when combined with 'people who have others willing to protect them while they gather' or similar. Always start from Fishing...

I guess I have more of a problem with 'the effort that will be required to make sure this is not a big deal' rather than the possibility of it happening ever. That's why I'd oppose it.

Ludullu

Azherae wrote: »

If that thing about NPCs not interacting with you is true (source please?)

26:10 here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_P7AK22_18

Azherae

NiKr wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

If that thing about NPCs not interacting with you is true (source please?)

26:10 here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_P7AK22_18

Grati to you both then.

Less concerned, not zero, but no longer consider it reasonable to be particularly opposed if we make all the 'usual obvious assumptions'. Now I just don't like it, without any good basis for that dislike.

Noaani

Honestly, Steven's answer was what I always assumed.

I've talked several times on these forums about gathering in an isolated area to remove corruption.

I agree that the quest issue would have been an issue if you could turn in quests while corrupt,but like NiKr, I knew that wasnt going to be the case.

My experience with games that give experience for gathering and crafting (including Archeage) is that these are slower forms of gaining experience than just going out and killing things. As such, people opting to craft or gather to remove corruption are likely going to find that it takes much longer.

The only concern at all that I have about it - that I have always had about it - is if people are able to craft in their freehold to earn experience. This can be resolved by simply preventing corrupt people from being able to lock the door.

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