mage looks terrible -_- ill just leave this here, discuss

idk after 7 years i think it looks pretty bad, wow classic looks more fast paced than this, aoe sleep?? ugh idk the hype for me is dying super fast, i understand the comments on twitch are mostly positive but tbh i feel like its because we dont get many updates so everything the first time you see it looks '' okay'' but after watching the vid 3-4 times it looks like a game made in 2005 with boring combat, the mage could be so much more ... please discuss, no hate

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Solvryn

Sengarden wrote: »

Solvryn wrote: »

I saw a class, I saw art.

I didn’t see combat at all, again.

I have yet to see combat.

I think I might agree with you, but I'm not entirely certain. Can you elaborate? I'm interested to see what you mean by that in more detail.

So when I mean tactics, I mean the application of the abilities. Right now, there is very effort in applying any of those abilities, they're going to mostly go to a dice roll.

It's indicative that the combat isn't going to have a high skill ceiling and that your typical GW2 and ESO zerglords are going to run roughshod over others, there won't be competing against ability synchronization.

When you look at design choices like completely nulling LOS as a legitimate tactic, such as lightning that runs around a rock. That idea should have been thrown into the bin before it ever hit the table. Because it nulls tactics and strategy to an absolutely abysmal level.

And when the devs themselves have said they get angry when someone los' them, that REALLY doesnt inspire any confidence.

Talents

Yes, very enthralling gameplay. Level 14 Mage in Classic WoW. Very entertaining watching it.

https://youtu.be/ZZ1riDTALCc?t=2323

Veeshan

Looks good to me seems more strategic gameplay than zooming around mashing buttons, cast speed could be a little quicker at times however there could be a spell haste kinda stat on armor/talents that affects cast speed which would fix this

Noaani

Solvryn wrote: »

Sengarden wrote: »

Solvryn wrote: »

I saw a class, I saw art.

I didn’t see combat at all, again.

I have yet to see combat.

I think I might agree with you, but I'm not entirely certain. Can you elaborate? I'm interested to see what you mean by that in more detail.

So when I mean tactics, I mean the application of the abilities. Right now, there is very effort in applying any of those abilities, they're going to mostly go to a dice roll.

I totally agree with you here in that we havent seen "combat" as yet.

Perhaps the main difference is that I have no expectation to see any of this until a month or two before launch.

Before you get "combat" in the way you are talking, you need to have all the classes built, all the content built, all the gear built, all the augments built. There is no real point on dealing with the finer details until all the larger chunks are in place.

We will see fully augmented classes before we see the kind of combat you are wanting here.

Solvryn

Noaani wrote: »

Solvryn wrote: »

Sengarden wrote: »

Solvryn wrote: »

I saw a class, I saw art.

I didn’t see combat at all, again.

I have yet to see combat.

I think I might agree with you, but I'm not entirely certain. Can you elaborate? I'm interested to see what you mean by that in more detail.

So when I mean tactics, I mean the application of the abilities. Right now, there is very effort in applying any of those abilities, they're going to mostly go to a dice roll.

I totally agree with you here in that we havent seen "combat" as yet.

Perhaps the main difference is that I have no expectation to see any of this until a month or two before launch.

Before you get "combat" in the way you are talking, you need to have all the classes built, all the content built, all the gear built, all the augments built. There is no real point on dealing with the finer details until all the larger chunks are in place.

We will see fully augmented classes before we see the kind of combat you are wanting here.

Yep, we have mostly seen flash and art. No substance like you and I want.

ariatras

I actually disagree, this is actually the first showcase that I really enjoyed, if anything, it highlights a problem with melee being a bit too flashy.

Hinotori

I'm loving the mage shown so far. I love it's stacks I love the synergy I'm loving the aoe abilities and CC... it's just poggers.

Stay madge mage haters and let's hope intrepid keep rolling the way they're going.

Dizz1

I like mage Intrepid showed so far, like the long bow basic attack that mage is able to charge spell and release it whenever you want with good amount mobility while casting/charging(consider it's a start line I feel the agency is very good), and good synergy between frost and lightning spells make a good amount depth as a foundation.

One thing I feel not in my strike zone is frost spells are more like snow then ice to me and a little bit cartoon-ish(I think it's because of the color), maybe it's the effect they expected I don't know, but it still good.

Veeshan

Mage = The Avatar, Earth, fire, water and air (lightning)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRopqDexOvY&ab_channel=DanChaotic1

GrinningJack

The SFX look nice.

peksi

There is something called constructive criticism: if you find something wrong with the game you include a suggestion on how to improve. Now you forgot to include it and it makes your comment useless.

Please include your idea on how to fix the issues.

Songcaller

It was a typical rotation class. I had hoped rotations would not be so blatant in aoc. I do love the improved spells (old mage was rather hideous), however, I can't glean the purpose or the capacity in a solo preview against tame mobs.

Tryol

This thread is amazing.
It just simply doesn't get better than this.
Great job, OP.

Solvryn

peksi wrote: »

There is something called constructive criticism: if you find something wrong with the game you include a suggestion on how to improve. Now you forgot to include it and it makes your comment useless.

Please include your idea on how to fix the issues.

I think the 2005 part and it looking archaic explains some things.

Again, it's not really a combat reveal.

The only things we can accurately say is that it looks good/bad and whether or not we think nulling LOS and player CD is a good/bad thing.

And ponder devs openly admitting it's their favorite class.

bloodprophet

I just finished the mage preview portion of the last live stream.
I usually play mage classes. So far I think they are on the right path. I really liked the skill synergy effects and look forward to experimenting with them and the archetype augments.
Except for shooting around corners. This removes strategy. Being able to LOS and force your opponent to move is a big part of combat. If this is something you can spec into at the cost of something else and it is limited to a few abilities then maybe.

Songcaller

Steven would have died multiple times on ranger without cheats. All from ranged mobs basic attacks. I feel the mage would also die to the same ranged mobs.

Solvryn

bloodprophet wrote: »

I just finished the mage preview portion of the last live stream.
I usually play mage classes. So far I think they are on the right path. I really liked the skill synergy effects and look forward to experimenting with them and the archetype augments.
Except for shooting around corners. This removes strategy. Being able to LOS and force your opponent to move is a big part of combat. If this is something you can spec into at the cost of something else and it is limited to a few abilities then maybe.

Yup, I don't like the lack of tactical acumen, seems way to damn easy to apply certain abilities. Removes the meaning and the impact of any strategy on a large scale.

Nerror

As for shooting around corners a lot of MMOs allows this already to a more limited extent. The check to see if the opponent is in LOS is made when the button is clicked, not when the spell is fired off. So if the opponent moves out of LOS right after, what we usually see is the spell clipping through the rock or wall in the way and hitting anyway. I much prefer the visuals of this.

Ashes takes it a step further yes, but as long as it's limited to *just* around the corner out of LOS and not 15+ feet to the side, I actually kind of like it. It goes both ways and I don't think it removes strategy or tactics, it just changes them a little. People can shoot back around corners, presumably.

Solvryn

Nerror wrote: »

As for shooting around corners a lot of MMOs allows this already to a more limited extent. The check to see if the opponent is in LOS is made when the button is clicked, not when the spell is fired off. So if the opponent moves out of LOS right after, what we usually see is the spell clipping through the rock or wall in the way and hitting anyway. I much prefer the visuals of this.

Ashes takes it a step further yes, but as long as it's limited to *just* around the corner out of LOS and not 15+ feet to the side, I actually kind of like it. It goes both ways and I don't think it removes strategy or tactics, it just changes them a little. People can shoot back around corners, presumably.

It does remove strategy and tactics if it's that easy to apply. It circled around an entire rock.

I'll use a simple tactic like the turkish retreat, it's already going to be hard to perform in terms of smaller vs large scale zerg busting but when you add spells that actually don't LOS properly when you're trying to kite a large group into smaller areas to focus, now all that large zerg has to do is cast some lightning without any effort and people will be getting walloped.

Turkish retreat is the tactic to use against Zerglords, stretch them out, isolate the fights and thin their numbers.

I do not feel like type of direction is good for the game and anything that acts like snipe from ESO should have never made it to the discussion, it should have been, "who thought this was good. *trashcan*".

That's where I'm very skeptical of the combat team, they don't really have the diversity in combat I'd like to hear about.

Nerror

Solvryn wrote: »

It does remove strategy and tactics if it's that easy to apply. It circled around an entire rock.

I'll use a simple tactic like the turkish retreat, it's already going to be hard to perform in terms of smaller vs large scale zerg busting but when you add spells that actually don't LOS properly when you're trying to kite a large group into smaller areas to focus, now all that large zerg has to do is cast some lightning without any effort and people will be getting walloped.

Turkish retreat is the tactic to use against Zerglords, stretch them out, isolate the fights and thin their numbers.

I do not feel like type of direction is good for the game and anything that acts like snipe from ESO should have never made it to the discussion, it should have been, "who thought this was good. *trashcan*".

That's where I'm very skeptical of the combat team, they don't really have the diversity in combat I'd like to hear about.

Ok, fine, if you want to be semantic about it, it removes some tactics and replaces them with others

I've never heard it called turkish retreat, nor does google or chatgpt help, can you explain it more?

I mean, I've done roughly what you describe many times in MMOs, using LOS and such to split and stretch zergs out, but I don't see how curving spells a little around a corner makes that impossible. It just means people will have to adapt and tweak. Most of the time it's done just out of range of all but the forward most part of the zerg anyway.

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