Nerror wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » It does remove strategy and tactics if it's that easy to apply. It circled around an entire rock. I'll use a simple tactic like the turkish retreat, it's already going to be hard to perform in terms of smaller vs large scale zerg busting but when you add spells that actually don't LOS properly when you're trying to kite a large group into smaller areas to focus, now all that large zerg has to do is cast some lightning without any effort and people will be getting walloped. Turkish retreat is the tactic to use against Zerglords, stretch them out, isolate the fights and thin their numbers. I do not feel like type of direction is good for the game and anything that acts like snipe from ESO should have never made it to the discussion, it should have been, "who thought this was good. *trashcan*". That's where I'm very skeptical of the combat team, they don't really have the diversity in combat I'd like to hear about. Ok, fine, if you want to be semantic about it, it removes some tactics and replaces them with others I've never heard it called turkish retreat, nor does google or chatgpt help, can you explain it more? I mean, I've done roughly what you describe many times in MMOs, using LOS and such to split and stretch zergs out, but I don't see how curving spells a little around a corner makes that impossible. It just means people will have to adapt and tweak. Most of the time it's done just out of range of all but the forward most part of the zerg anyway.
Solvryn wrote: » It does remove strategy and tactics if it's that easy to apply. It circled around an entire rock. I'll use a simple tactic like the turkish retreat, it's already going to be hard to perform in terms of smaller vs large scale zerg busting but when you add spells that actually don't LOS properly when you're trying to kite a large group into smaller areas to focus, now all that large zerg has to do is cast some lightning without any effort and people will be getting walloped. Turkish retreat is the tactic to use against Zerglords, stretch them out, isolate the fights and thin their numbers. I do not feel like type of direction is good for the game and anything that acts like snipe from ESO should have never made it to the discussion, it should have been, "who thought this was good. *trashcan*". That's where I'm very skeptical of the combat team, they don't really have the diversity in combat I'd like to hear about.
NiKr wrote: » And as a counter point, I don't want zoomer BDO speeds of everyone just fucking dashing around at the speed of sound across my screen during anything over 5x5 pvp. Slow mages = great mass pvp. And that is why I loved this showcase.
SirChancelot wrote: » I don't get the hate on the lightning arcing around corners... Electricity can be manipulated that way. I think it shows off the awesome work they put into the effects they used to have the electricity arcing to the surroundings. It looks better than lightning in any game I've seen. You say loss of tactical play, but if anything I think this is adding to it. If there are a few limited attacks that can for example go around LoS that opens up another layer of counterplay options. I want to use ice shard/fireball... He's ducking behind a rock, now I have to use my lightning ability to bend it like Beckham... Maybe a ranger will have a trick shot too? I'm sure these abilities will have enough of a cooldown to where you can't have someone standing permanently out of LoS and spamming "homing" shots at you. Or require spec'ing heavily into to get the tracking effect, or maybe some prerequisite ability for a 'tagging' mechanic to get follow on shots to chase the target. Of course it will need play testing and balancing, but I can dig the idea of it.
bloodprophet wrote: » I just finished the mage preview portion of the last live stream. I usually play mage classes. So far I think they are on the right path. I really liked the skill synergy effects and look forward to experimenting with them and the archetype augments. Except for shooting around corners. This removes strategy. Being able to LOS and force your opponent to move is a big part of combat. If this is something you can spec into at the cost of something else and it is limited to a few abilities then maybe.
Solvryn wrote: » It's just a tactic the Turks used when battling the West, they'd bait people in palpable groups and use guerrilla warfare against them.
Niem Lumel wrote: » @Dizz The question is why did they showcase nothing during those streams? I am fairly certain that Cleric's design has not been worked upon to the same extent as Mage's design.
Chicago wrote: » idk after 7 years i think it looks pretty bad, wow classic looks more fast paced than this, aoe sleep?? ugh idk the hype for me is dying super fast, i understand the comments on twitch are mostly positive but tbh i feel like its because we dont get many updates so everything the first time you see it looks '' okay'' but after watching the vid 3-4 times it looks like a game made in 2005 with boring combat, the mage could be so much more ... please discuss, no hate
Niem Lumel wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mages are easier to design in terms of 'number of abilities you can show people', particularly for MMOs. They don't require the whole combat system to be done, just the basic pillars defined, and not even all of those. I beg to differ. There is a multitude of basic healing spells that could have been given to Cleric if they wanted to present a kit that consists of more than 4 abilities.
Azherae wrote: » Mages are easier to design in terms of 'number of abilities you can show people', particularly for MMOs. They don't require the whole combat system to be done, just the basic pillars defined, and not even all of those.
Niem Lumel wrote: » Cleric was ready for a showcase so it is ready enough for me to make conclusions about the direction of the archetype. @Taleof2Cities
Okeydoke wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » It's just a tactic the Turks used when battling the West, they'd bait people in palpable groups and use guerrilla warfare against them. I think that's better known as a Mongol retreat. It's a feigned retreat. Feign retreat, entice enemy units to overextend in chase, turn around and obliterate them before they can get back to their main force. The Mongols are a Turkic related ethnic group though, so it's kind of the same thing. Turkish/Mongol, just better known by Mongol I think. They were really good at it with their mounted archers and lancers. For many armies it's one of the most difficult maneuvers to pull off because there's a chance in the fog of war that a feigned rout becomes a real rout. lol history's cool
Dizz wrote: » Intrepid showed 2 of fighter skills, 3 of ranger's skills, 4 of cleric's skills, and 5+1 of tank's skills. Compare to mage showcase we kind of know nothing about these 4 archetypes and we still don't know anything about bard, summoner and rogue. I think it's too early to say that something is too easy to apply to some tactical plays or strategies.
