How can we improve corruption and world pvp?

As it stands the community seems split on this topic, pvers seem to like the udea of corruption and harsh penalties for pking and pvpers seem to hate it, i myself think think the concept is good but the design is extremley flawed, at no point in time should a player drop armor/ gear as a result of dying in pvp, resorces and materials i can live with, so instead of having a 100 comment long argument lets brain storm some ideas to make it better for both parties,

On another post i read this week someone mentioned an idea of having corruption not come into play if you are attacked at night time, i think this is super cool and emersive, also corruption could be like a 15 minute debuff of stats after you PK but you dont lose materials or armor, what are your thoughts? For a pvx game that is mostly designed around pvp in my opinion the corruption system is way over the top, maybe there could be some zones that you are flagged in and others no

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tautau

Out of curiosity, why don't you think a PKer should not drop armor &/or weapons? Do you simply think that it is too harsh, or is there a logical reason behind your opinion?

Chicago

tautau wrote: »

Out of curiosity, why don't you think a PKer should not drop armor &/or weapons? Do you simply think that it is too harsh, or is there a logical reason behind your opinion?

I think resorces is a harsh enough punishment on death, but weapons/armor is just to mucj in my opinion and not good game design, i feel like its a lazy fix for a badly designed game mechanic, dont get me wrong i think there needs to be a deturent for griefing and pking, but dropping armor or weapons isnt it

Chicago

tautau wrote: »

Out of curiosity, why don't you think a PKer should not drop armor &/or weapons? Do you simply think that it is too harsh, or is there a logical reason behind your opinion?

Also im a big believer in small weapon/armor upgrades, it needs to feel good when you get a even small upgrade and good armor or weapons need to be rare or atleast hard to make, if you can drop these on death it will prevent almost everyone from pking wich sounds good in theory but there can be many good memories made and fun times killing pkers or going arou d the world with your buddies looking for battles, i feel it removes a beautiful part of the game

Noaani

Chicago wrote: »

at no point in time should a player drop armor/ gear as a result of dying in pvp,

You can play the game in a manner where this is the case for you.

Your argument may well be that you don't want to limit yourself to not killing players you would otherwise kill.

How is that any different to someone not wanting to fight you being forced - by you - to do so?

I'm sure you will then turn around and say "if they don't like that, they shouldn't play this game".

To which I say "if you don't like the potential to drop items in PvP, you shouldn't play this game".

I await your response with bated breath.

Mag7spy

As a pvper I'm fine with gear drops, there would be other issues to talk about before that, which has already been talked about as well.

Maybe id feel the same if i didn't expect there to be other forms of pvp and ways to freely attack people. Including node and guild decs. Which has the pvp be more plan oriented than random people just pking people around the world to loot them constantly.

Xp loss, and material drop is not enough to deter someone from pvping. Exactly why they decided to add equipment drops. BDO has something akin to it, though it was more so gear downgrade if u died to a pve mob. Which was pretty much destruction at that point with the value your gear was worth.

If you want to push to change something you need to offer a suggestion to start to conversation on as an alternative. ATM best was to do that is gear drops.

Chicago

Noaani wrote: »

Chicago wrote: »

at no point in time should a player drop armor/ gear as a result of dying in pvp,

You can play the game in a manner where this is the case for you.

Your argument may well be that you don't want to limit yourself to not killing players you would otherwise kill.

How is that any different to someone not wanting to fight you being forced - by you - to do so?

I'm sure you will then turn around and say "if they don't like that, they shouldn't play this game".

To which I say "if you don't like the potential to drop items in PvP, you shouldn't play this game".

I await your response with bated breath.

Haha no actually mate i enjoy your perspective, we dont agree but as i said id rather hear ways to fix it a way to prevent pking without gear drops would be nice so lets think about some soñutions instead of arguing!

Noaani

Chicago wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Chicago wrote: »

at no point in time should a player drop armor/ gear as a result of dying in pvp,

You can play the game in a manner where this is the case for you.

Your argument may well be that you don't want to limit yourself to not killing players you would otherwise kill.

How is that any different to someone not wanting to fight you being forced - by you - to do so?

I'm sure you will then turn around and say "if they don't like that, they shouldn't play this game".

To which I say "if you don't like the potential to drop items in PvP, you shouldn't play this game".

I await your response with bated breath.

Haha no actually mate i enjoy your perspective, we dont agree but as i said id rather hear ways to fix it a way to prevent pking without gear drops would be nice so lets think about some soñutions instead of arguing!

There isn't anything else that can be done - not if you want a punishment that matters and has any effect at all.

Realistically, it is the only viable punishment. Players can go out and fight without resources, without gold, without anything really - except gear. I mean, if you were going to go out looking for PvP in a game where you dropped raw materials if you were killed in PvP, would you be taking raw materials out with you?

Now, obviously dropping a piece of gear per corrupt death would be too much, so Intrepid simply made it a percent chance to lose an item.

There are also advantages to the punishment being gear - players can opt to not wear their best gear for a fight if they think they can win in lesser gear. If you want to fight over some lesser resource or farming location, you may well opt to not do so in your best gear so as to not risk it for such a low value reward. The advantage here is that in doing so, you are putting yourself at a disadvantage, meaning more PvP fights will be generally closer (something I always want to see in any PvP game). This means players are able to manage their own level of risk, if they want to.

So, you have the option to just not fight someone so you never drop gear, and you also have the option to alter the risk you face by decreasing your chance of winning a fight while also decreasing the amount you stand to lose.

A system giving players multiple viable choices seems like good game design to me.

Solvryn

Chicago wrote: »

As it stands the community seems split on this topic, pvers seem to like the udea of corruption and harsh penalties for pking and pvpers seem to hate it, i myself think think the concept is good but the design is extremley flawed, at no point in time should a player drop armor/ gear as a result of dying in pvp, resorces and materials i can live with, so instead of having a 100 comment long argument lets brain storm some ideas to make it better for both parties,

On another post i read this week someone mentioned an idea of having corruption not come into play if you are attacked at night time, i think this is super cool and emersive, also corruption could be like a 15 minute debuff of stats after you PK but you dont lose materials or armor, what are your thoughts? For a pvx game that is mostly designed around pvp in my opinion the corruption system is way over the top, maybe there could be some zones that you are flagged in and others no

I’m fine with full loot, as I’m from it. Corruption isn’t a bad idea on its face, just incomplete.

Should players be able to kill their enemies, yes. Should players be able to grief others and be an asshole? Also yes. Should there be a permanent indication that a player is an asshole well after they worked off corruption?

Also yes.

A well done honor/dishonor score system that’s a sibling system could do that.

Personally I’d swap these two, let honor/dishonor be the immediate flagging system and corruption (as it’s a spiritual theme) exist through out all of Verra again.

Noaani

Solvryn wrote: »

Should there be a permanent indication that a player is an asshole well after they worked off corruption?

Also yes.

A well done honor/dishonor score system that’s a sibling system could do that.

Does PK count not approximate this?

Solvryn

Noaani wrote: »

Solvryn wrote: »

Should there be a permanent indication that a player is an asshole well after they worked off corruption?

Also yes.

A well done honor/dishonor score system that’s a sibling system could do that.

Does PK count not approximate this?

No, because it doesn’t tell us why they PK’d.

Noaani

Solvryn wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Solvryn wrote: »

Should there be a permanent indication that a player is an asshole well after they worked off corruption?

Also yes.

A well done honor/dishonor score system that’s a sibling system could do that.

Does PK count not approximate this?

No, because it doesn’t tell us why they PK’d.

If I understand what it is you are after here, there isn't a way to do this.

The game can't tell, and if you put it in the hands of players, they will abuse it.

Far better to leave it up to the game to have a basic mechanic in place that applies evenly to everyone, imo.

Korela

PK is good way to clean the spot from bots and carebears. Mass PK is bad. Need to prevent mass PK. Let's see what we have at the wiki page about corruption:

1. The more skill and stat dampening applies (lower health and mana, lower gear proficiency), until the corrupt player ultimately becomes ineffective at combat.This dampening only affects PvP combat.
2. The higher chance of dropping of carried raw materials and gear (Weapons and Armor) when the corrupted player dies.
3. The wider the level disparity between the players, and the higher the attacker's PK value, the more corruption they gain.
4. Corrupt players suffer death penalties at four times the rate of a non-combatant.
5. A corrupt player’s location is revealed to bounty hunters on their world map.
6. There is a 60 second timer to logout while corrupt. Force-disconnecting the client during the cooldown will leave the character in-game.
7. And some minor things like disability to use warehouses...

Do we really need all of this? For me, [1, 3, 5, 6, 7] is enough to not to go for mass PK and noob-PK especially. The [4] is managable, it seems like kinda fair risk-reward balance. But the [2] stops me from PK if I am alone. There is no reason to have a chance to lose my gear I farmed for ~a few months. And if I cannot (well, I can, but risk=months vs reward=10 mins, so I can't if I am sane) protect my spot from bots and carebears, why would I go to waste my time at the open zones? Seems like instance zones-carebears-bots-RMT enforcing (or hardly favoring) rule.

Solvryn

Noaani wrote: »

Solvryn wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Solvryn wrote: »

Should there be a permanent indication that a player is an asshole well after they worked off corruption?

Also yes.

A well done honor/dishonor score system that’s a sibling system could do that.

Does PK count not approximate this?

No, because it doesn’t tell us why they PK’d.

If I understand what it is you are after here, there isn't a way to do this.

The game can't tell, and if you put it in the hands of players, they will abuse it.

Far better to leave it up to the game to have a basic mechanic in place that applies evenly to everyone, imo.

I have been pretty vague, more than likely it needs a greater explanation.

Ludullu

I'm kinda hung up on the "equipped" part of this
Any amount of corruption allows a player to drop equipped gear upon death. The higher the corruption the greater the chances.

What if we only drop literally the stuff we're wearing and not the stuff in our inventory? At that point all you gotta do is carry a weak set with you that you can PK in. There, problem solved. No "took-a-month-to-farm" gear lost.

This is just yet another reason why I think it's silly to discuss and argue about this system. We've got no clue about the details.

Korela

NiKr wrote: »

What if we only drop literally the stuff we're wearing and not the stuff in our inventory? At that point all you gotta do is carry a weak set with you that you can PK in. There, problem solved. No "took-a-month-to-farm" gear lost.

If so, then fine. Wearing cheap equip during the corrupt state is manageable (if I have enough inventory space and wieght limits, heh). But it sounds strange. Why just don't apply even more "skill and stat dampening"? That's why I assumed that it won't work this way

Noaani

Solvryn wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Solvryn wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Solvryn wrote: »

Should there be a permanent indication that a player is an asshole well after they worked off corruption?

Also yes.

A well done honor/dishonor score system that’s a sibling system could do that.

Does PK count not approximate this?

No, because it doesn’t tell us why they PK’d.

If I understand what it is you are after here, there isn't a way to do this.

The game can't tell, and if you put it in the hands of players, they will abuse it.

Far better to leave it up to the game to have a basic mechanic in place that applies evenly to everyone, imo.

I have been pretty vague, more than likely it needs a greater explanation.

Probably.

Noaani

Korela wrote: »

NiKr wrote: »

What if we only drop literally the stuff we're wearing and not the stuff in our inventory? At that point all you gotta do is carry a weak set with you that you can PK in. There, problem solved. No "took-a-month-to-farm" gear lost.

If so, then fine. Wearing cheap equip during the corrupt state is manageable (if I have enough inventory space and wieght limits, heh). But it sounds strange. Why just don't apply even more "skill and stat dampening"? That's why I assumed that it won't work this way

My assumption is that it will be dropped gear only, and we will not have access to our inventory while corrupt to change out gear.

It was only a few years ago people were arguing that corrupt players could just go back to their freehold to drop off any gear of value. People were adamant that this was a fatal flaw in corruption, and many of us (or, at least me) pointed out that they can just remove access to storage for corrupt players. These people pointed to Intrepid having specifically said corrupt players won't have access to in node storage as proof that Intrepid intends for this to be a thing.

Then Intrepid came along and said you won't have access to storage on your freehold while corrupt.

To me, the intent behind the system (as I said back then) would mean that the gear you gain corruption in is the gear you are risking loosing.

Wandering Mist

Chicago wrote: »

On another post i read this week someone mentioned an idea of having corruption not come into play if you are attacked at night time, i think this is super cool and emersive

This is an interesting idea, although I don't think it would work in an mmorpg. It's common in single-player games to have more dangerous creatures come out at night, but most of the time these games have a way of changing the in-game time so you can choose whether to play at night or day time.

In an mmorpg, you can't do this, and it would suck if the only times you could play were when it was night time in game and you had to deal with the PKers or miss out on most of the game.

Caww

can we merge this with the following 107 comment thread and skip the part where we all repeat ourselves?

https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/55562/corruption-pvp#latest

Ludullu

Caww wrote: »

can we merge this with the following 107 comment thread and skip the part where we all repeat ourselves?

You don't understand! This thread is not for arguments

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