Throne & Liberty : finaly so different (edit)

"Get out fast AoC or you’ll be overtaken by Throne & Liberty" I’ve seen this comment many times. now I’m sure these two games don’t have much to do with it.

For my part, botting options are absolutely repulsive, and the opposite of what I look for in an MMO, namely the investment and the value it gives to the gaming experience.

Pwahahaha who wants to pay a battle pass to activate offline boting? Paying for not playing is great : the inovation of the century

In short, fully supports the AoC project, take the time I trust in your passionate approach!

Edit : My original title / post was definitely uninspired and toxic. On a better day today, I prefer to avoid that;)

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Yuyukoyay

I mean it's hard to compete vs the sheer cost this game already has put into it. No game will realistically be able to compete vs this game once it's done. The only 2 games with more money put in will be WoW and FF14. No other game will compete in this. This in turn will translate into pure quality boost across every system of the game.

So sure they can release their games with their crappy gimmicks to try, but they won't succeed as long as they refuse to spend. Which they will not spend because most multiplayer focused games these days are cash grabs. The entire reason this game is even being made is because every one of them up to this point is a cash grab. FF14 initially failed because it was nothing but a cash grab. They then spent on a quality boost and redevelopment of the game into a real game.

This game is going to come out of nowhere and hit like a tsunami. So long as the combat is fleshed out, they keep their promises, the balance is good, and the game is fun I don't see what could go wrong.

Mag7spy

NiKr wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

If all the good content is at end game and base content is so bad not worth playing should be a good end game content loop etc.

Else start should be fun from the beginning to the end.

This is why quite often the KR mmos lean way more towards pvp, because that's their main content and the pve is just a background, which is fine to automate at that point.

I think the "perfect" mmo will be a game with automated ez base pve, where a ton of pvp happens, a ton of artisan activities with their own cool design, pvp events and then some proper hardcore pve for those who want it.

So, in a way, Ashes with autobattling Well, that is if they succeed at good pve, which, I guess, will be shown in 2 days.

issue is you have alt accounts and funnel stuff to one account while having a bunch of bot accounts farmings. It is a serious issue that reduces the impact of pvp. Do to people just out gearing with multiple accounts and tanking everyone .

Spif

The thing is, Lineage Mobile franchise has made Billions of dollars in the last 5 years. Think about that for a sec.

T&L is taking some queues from that game (auto-battle, rooted while doing any skills, and time gated sinks in character development that depend on auto-battle), and they're trying to get some similar returns from the PC gaming community. This isn't all bad. The gap between a 1 hour/day player and a 10 hour/day player can partially be made up for by auto-battle. And then some more can be made up with pay-to-advance

Then it can be ported to mobile when phone hardware catches up, and make money from a wider audience.

Mag7spy

Spif wrote: »

The thing is, Lineage Mobile franchise has made Billions of dollars in the last 5 years. Think about that for a sec.

T&L is taking some queues from that game (auto-battle, rooted while doing any skills, and time gated sinks in character development that depend on auto-battle), and they're trying to get some similar returns from the PC gaming community. This isn't all bad. The gap between a 1 hour/day player and a 10 hour/day player can partially be made up for by auto-battle. And then some more can be made up with pay-to-advance

Then it can be ported to mobile when phone hardware catches up, and make money from a wider audience.

-____-

Mag7spy

I can't believe people are trying to defend auto battle like it is a good thing. Like full on boomer mind set of being able to play when at work thinking that will help them keep up. It is just naïve and opening the door to a terribly designed game, and no you won't keep up unless you are trying to run multiple accounts.

I feel at a loss for words with the direction some gamers are going in and a lack of self respect. A last of respect for where you go with your own time and being happy with it. Where you group goes and works together to lean on each other and being happy. A mix of wins and a mix of losses and motivation to push.

Mind set of auto play will help me keep up so it is good for me is a terrible mind set. You need to do it yourself or with your group with your own hands, mind and skills you can be proud of where you get to. If you are letting bots do things for you, it is pointless you aren't playing the game, and id question is it a game worth playing.

Depraved

Mag7spy wrote: »

I can't believe people are trying to defend auto battle like it is a good thing. Like full on boomer mind set of being able to play when at work thinking that will help them keep up. It is just naïve and opening the door to a terribly designed game, and no you won't keep up unless you are trying to run multiple accounts.

I feel at a loss for words with the direction some gamers are going in and a lack of self respect. A last of respect for where you go with your own time and being happy with it. Where you group goes and works together to lean on each other and being happy. A mix of wins and a mix of losses and motivation to push.

Mind set of auto play will help me keep up so it is good for me is a terrible mind set. You need to do it yourself or with your group with your own hands, mind and skills you can be proud of where you get to. If you are letting bots do things for you, it is pointless you aren't playing the game, and id question is it a game worth playing.

If everybody is is auto farming, then u wont need to keep up, full be the same as everyone else

everyone will progress at the same speed.

i also don't like auto farming and i thought it was going to be like l2 essence. but everything I've seen indicates auto farming wont be op.

also boomers deserve to play too...different audience i guess

Songcaller

I'm signed up for pax dei alpha if it comes. Not sure I will get in but its worth a blast

Mag7spy

Depraved wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

I can't believe people are trying to defend auto battle like it is a good thing. Like full on boomer mind set of being able to play when at work thinking that will help them keep up. It is just naïve and opening the door to a terribly designed game, and no you won't keep up unless you are trying to run multiple accounts.

I feel at a loss for words with the direction some gamers are going in and a lack of self respect. A last of respect for where you go with your own time and being happy with it. Where you group goes and works together to lean on each other and being happy. A mix of wins and a mix of losses and motivation to push.

Mind set of auto play will help me keep up so it is good for me is a terrible mind set. You need to do it yourself or with your group with your own hands, mind and skills you can be proud of where you get to. If you are letting bots do things for you, it is pointless you aren't playing the game, and id question is it a game worth playing.

If everybody is is auto farming, then u wont need to keep up, full be the same as everyone else everyone will progress at the same speed.

i also don't like auto farming and i thought it was going to be like l2 essence. but everything I've seen indicates auto farming wont be op.

also boomers deserve to play too...different audience i guess

Auto farming doesn't make you keep up, it is a system designed to ruin the core experience of the game in order to add monetization to the basic element of progression.

If you pay money you will be able to get more out of it, if you have multiple accounts /character slots you will gain more than any "boomer". The entirely of the pve experience and in turn the world will suffer in order to facilitate the monetization of auto play.

The basic consumer isn't looking at the bigger picture and is thinking about themself.

If the idea is you don't have enough time to be competitive in a mmorpg without the game playing for you. So effectively they want to be competitive without even playing the game. I'd question why play mmorpgs with anything akin to that view point.

"Won't be op" That is them inching the post little by little. Like i said you simply have have multiple accounts and funnel what you get to one character.

Ludullu

Mag7spy wrote: »

The basic consumer isn't looking at the bigger picture and is thinking about themself.

Basic consumers don't use several accounts at the same time. And any consumer that does would've done so in any other design as well, so they would've been even further away from any basic consumer of that game.

And if the game prevents you from launching several instances of it at the same time - the amount of advanced consumers would be even smaller. Autobattling just equalizes the power floor of the game, no matter how actively you play it.

Though again, this only matters in the context of a pvp(x) game. Obviously a pve mmo should not have autobattling, because it would go directly against the game's core design. But imo some equalization of players in a pvp mmo is a good thing.

It could be argued that it's completely pointless, because at that point you might as well just make a completely horizontal progression in the game, but I feel like that removes a part of what makes mmos fun. If horizontality of power was universally loved, GW2 would be the size of WoW or even bigger.

Depraved

u ddidnt get it T_T

but yeh don't auto farm just play manually, u will progress faster.

will be hard to get things done the first few days tho with so many ppl afking on ur mobs xd

Mag7spy

NiKr wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

The basic consumer isn't looking at the bigger picture and is thinking about themself.

Basic consumers don't use several accounts at the same time. And any consumer that does would've done so in any other design as well, so they would've been even further away from any basic consumer of that game.

And if the game prevents you from launching several instances of it at the same time - the amount of advanced consumers would be even smaller. Autobattling just equalizes the power floor of the game, no matter how actively you play it.

Though again, this only matters in the context of a pvp(x) game. Obviously a pve mmo should not have autobattling, because it would go directly against the game's core design. But imo some equalization of players in a pvp mmo is a good thing.

It could be argued that it's completely pointless, because at that point you might as well just make a completely horizontal progression in the game, but I feel like that removes a part of what makes mmos fun. If horizontality of power was universally loved, GW2 would be the size of WoW or even bigger.

Auto play is far worse for PvP, pve it doesn't matter since the game is just about killing mobs and player competition is not involved.

Nothing is equalized because you have random people running around killing mobs, again you simply have multiple games running. The game in question already supports offline character auto battle and again you ruin the base experience of the content by making it so it can be done with auto battle.

People will find ways around, and u can run it on 2 different computers and again funnel mats to one account.

Again nothing is equalized the whole concept of the model is to add monetization into basic level grinding so whoever pays more gets more in a gear /level heavy system.

There are winners and losers in a mmo and goal to get somewhere that you can measure yourself against other people in the game. Your point in the game not being able to play as much and being weaker gives you a reason to get where the stronger people are. At the end of the day if you ar trying to say its equal and they can afk to best gear in the game the mmorpg is a joke at that point and should just be made into a battle royal.

Ludullu

Mag7spy wrote: »

There are winners and losers in a mmo and goal to get somewhere that you can measure yourself against other people in the game. Your point in the game not being able to play as much and being weaker gives you a reason to get where the stronger people are. At the end of the day if you ar trying to say its equal and they can afk to best gear in the game the mmorpg is a joke at that point and should just be made into a battle royal.

Except I've never said that. I said that autobattling mobs helps them not get too far from the hardcore players. The hardcores will still be ahead, mainly because they'd do exactly what you're talking about. They'll use several accounts, maybe even on several PCs. But that is literally always the case with harcore players. That's what makes them hardcore.

A casual player will almost never use multiple accounts or anything of the sort, cause why the hell would he. But if he felt that instead of a 100% difference in power the autobattling helped him stay at around 30-40% difference with the hardcores - he'd be more willing to stay in the game and participate in pvp. But when that difference is at 100% (or even over), quite a lot of people just stop playing, cause what's the point.

Also, all the pvp content or proper pve content would still be manual purely because of its difficulty and appeal.

As for the monetization design - that's just the korean way. It would be so even w/o autobattling. It is so in other mmos that don't have autobattling. And just as Ashes plans not to have p2w, even though they have roots in korean mmos, a good mmo with autobattling wouldn't have it either. Obviously TL is a bad one, because it's fucking NCsoft. I'm sure you saw my opinion of them back when we weren't even sure how TL would play.

Mag7spy

NiKr wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

There are winners and losers in a mmo and goal to get somewhere that you can measure yourself against other people in the game. Your point in the game not being able to play as much and being weaker gives you a reason to get where the stronger people are. At the end of the day if you ar trying to say its equal and they can afk to best gear in the game the mmorpg is a joke at that point and should just be made into a battle royal.

Except I've never said that. I said that autobattling mobs helps them not get too far from the hardcore players. The hardcores will still be ahead, mainly because they'd do exactly what you're talking about. They'll use several accounts, maybe even on several PCs. But that is literally always the case with harcore players. That's what makes them hardcore.

A casual player will almost never use multiple accounts or anything of the sort, cause why the hell would he. But if he felt that instead of a 100% difference in power the autobattling helped him stay at around 30-40% difference with the hardcores - he'd be more willing to stay in the game and participate in pvp. But when that difference is at 100% (or even over), quite a lot of people just stop playing, cause what's the point.

Also, all the pvp content or proper pve content would still be manual purely because of its difficulty and appeal.

As for the monetization design - that's just the korean way. It would be so even w/o autobattling. It is so in other mmos that don't have autobattling. And just as Ashes plans not to have p2w, even though they have roots in korean mmos, a good mmo with autobattling wouldn't have it either. Obviously TL is a bad one, because it's fucking NCsoft. I'm sure you saw my opinion of them back when we weren't even sure how TL would play.

I think you may have gotten to use to these types of things if you have played their mobile games or ones with auto battle in it.

There is no day in age where auto battle is good for any form of serious content. If you can auto battle the content is not good and based on static mobile-ish gameplay. Second again not everyone needs to keep up, if the point is "most" people wont' do it being casuals (which i think that will greatly change when people can get a huge advantage). Than those people would all be around the same spot near each other to begin without auto battle.

Ludullu

Mag7spy wrote: »

I think you may have gotten to use to these types of things if you have played their mobile games or ones with auto battle in it.

Haven't played a single one and when I play TL I doubt I'll be using it all that much, because I'll just grind the game with my own hands.

Mag7spy wrote: »

There is no day in age where auto battle is good for any form of serious content. If you can auto battle the content is not good and based on static mobile-ish gameplay. Second again not everyone needs to keep up, if the point is "most" people wont' do it being casuals (which i think that will greatly change when people can get a huge advantage). Than those people would all be around the same spot near each other to begin without auto battle.

Yes, casuals will always be around the same lvl, but I'm talking about their relation to the hardcores. W/o autobattling you either have a grand canyon of difference between the two or the hardcores don't even have anything to do so they just leave. With autobattling the casuals will just be a bit closer to hardcores, so they won't die in one shot, which will create an illusion of a fighting chance.

Back when L2 didn't have autobattling, the only ones who survived the game were those who either grinded the hell out of the game, could rmt heavily or completely didn't care about the competitiveness of the game (this was the minority of players). And because of that L2 is so poorly known that TL's combat has had such a huge impact on everyone.

Obviously in L2's case autobattling didn't help much, because it's fucking NCsoft designing everything else, but I do believe that sooner or later it'll be the norm in mmos that do not revolve around hardcore pve.

akabear

For all the shortfalls reported, they have responded stating that they will take on board comments and improve.. so interesting to see what happens..

That being said, this short clip showing many players in one area with a diverse range of equipment and little frame rate slow down would be a tremendous achievement for Ashes to replicate
https://youtube.com/watch?v=OwoYPzq2_cU

Mag7spy

akabear wrote: »

For all the shortfalls reported, they have responded stating that they will take on board comments and improve.. so interesting to see what happens..

That being said, this short clip showing many players in one area with a diverse range of equipment and little frame rate slow down would be a tremendous achievement for Ashes to replicate
https://youtube.com/watch?v=OwoYPzq2_cU

I did see their post and they said "in the future" so im guessing nothing changes on release. I hope they will improve things for sure. And i also hope our version will be different than kr.

Mag7spy

I need the game to be playable and fun enough my guild will still be ok playing it.

akabear

Mag7spy wrote: »

akabear wrote: »

For all the shortfalls reported, they have responded stating that they will take on board comments and improve.. so interesting to see what happens..

That being said, this short clip showing many players in one area with a diverse range of equipment and little frame rate slow down would be a tremendous achievement for Ashes to replicate
https://youtube.com/watch?v=OwoYPzq2_cU

I did see their post and they said "in the future" so im guessing nothing changes on release. I hope they will improve things for sure. And i also hope our version will be different than kr.

I saw it as a possible filler until AoC comes out, but looks like there a quite a few promising time fillers coming up.. Hope AoC is the jewel!

Noaani

NiKr wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

did u watch the video? the guy is aoeing manually...so playing manually > auto hunting. that was the point of my post ._.

but its much better and rewarding to play manually.

And that is my exact point. Every casual player will be using autobattling. But because manual battling is way more profitable, you'll be way ahead of those autobattlers. Which means that autobattling is beneficial to anyone who doesn't use it.

My take on what you are saying here is that autobattling is good because it will trick casual players in to progressing slower.

In my opinion, autobattling is bad because it will trick casual players in to progressing slower.

Any game in which PvP exists is best served by keeping its players closer together in progression, not further apart.

Ludullu

Noaani wrote: »

Any game in which PvP exists is best served by keeping its players closer together in progression, not further apart.

But that's my point though. Autobattling keeps them progressing at all. W/o it they'd just play their 1-2h a day and be completely stuck in low lvls (in the context of L2-like grindy mmos of course). Hardcores will be ahead no matter what, but autobattling keeps the casuals at least moving forward at all times.

Any casual that wants to play pure manual when they can would always be welcomed to do so, while hardcores would just always be manual because they're always playing. And the good pve/p content would happen during primetime and be manual due to its difficulty and general appeal of the gameplay.

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