Loading wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Loading wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » I’m not sure why you think advocating for a high skill ceiling is for single player mmorpgs, because it’s not true. You work together whether it be tab or action, it doesn’t matter if it’s WoW or Darkfall. Your view on balance indicates to me you haven’t played that many action MMOs. I’ve played the spectrum. We are talking about a hybrid in Ashes, so it needs to incorporate the best of both worlds. It needs to work like a hybrid. no im saying a high skill ceiling on personal skill over teamwork, good gear and ability building, and strategy is what makes it a snigle player game. its the fact that YOU arent supposed to be the linchpin based 100% on massive levels of personal skill to be able to avoid attacks and pump out massive dmg but instead everyone is meant to work together in basically a dnd adventure since the mmorpg genre was based on dnd. theres a reason combat balanced around solo play makes a game no longer a mmorpg and its 100% that fact that if its difficulty is based on personal capability ENTIRELY like say bdo or eso than your gonna have a issue. thats the reason im trying to make clear the amount of shit that the supports will need to consider and why i will also point out that a good real mmorpg would have its bossses and even normal enemies all having unique mechanics that make it so even the dps and tanks need to be aware of the enmies they are going after lest they be wiped out by a mechanic they didnt know about. like dont get me wrong, i do ackowledge that some amount of action combat based skill is good for the melee fighters since that combat is basically entirely meant to be action orientated but thats the exception and even than like i have made clear, it shouldnt be the focus. And what about games where you need top end gear, you need that personal skill, but you also need that teamwork and strategy? ok i dont get what you mean there? your just asking the question that as best i can tell with how you worded it basically is just " and what about games that are in different genres to ashes? hmmm?" like my point was that in games that emphasis teamwork and strategy, those are SUPPOSED to be the key things and that gear and personal skill are more so after thoughts as the real challenge is working together as a team when one miss step can bring the whole team down. like you guys still have to explain why ashes is REALLY a open world single player rpg game with multiplayer elements or at best a open world multiplayer rpg instead of a mmorpg because its meant to be like those oldschool mmorpgs like old school WoW with a HEAVY focus on teamwork needing to be something you have to do basically anything.
Noaani wrote: » Loading wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » I’m not sure why you think advocating for a high skill ceiling is for single player mmorpgs, because it’s not true. You work together whether it be tab or action, it doesn’t matter if it’s WoW or Darkfall. Your view on balance indicates to me you haven’t played that many action MMOs. I’ve played the spectrum. We are talking about a hybrid in Ashes, so it needs to incorporate the best of both worlds. It needs to work like a hybrid. no im saying a high skill ceiling on personal skill over teamwork, good gear and ability building, and strategy is what makes it a snigle player game. its the fact that YOU arent supposed to be the linchpin based 100% on massive levels of personal skill to be able to avoid attacks and pump out massive dmg but instead everyone is meant to work together in basically a dnd adventure since the mmorpg genre was based on dnd. theres a reason combat balanced around solo play makes a game no longer a mmorpg and its 100% that fact that if its difficulty is based on personal capability ENTIRELY like say bdo or eso than your gonna have a issue. thats the reason im trying to make clear the amount of shit that the supports will need to consider and why i will also point out that a good real mmorpg would have its bossses and even normal enemies all having unique mechanics that make it so even the dps and tanks need to be aware of the enmies they are going after lest they be wiped out by a mechanic they didnt know about. like dont get me wrong, i do ackowledge that some amount of action combat based skill is good for the melee fighters since that combat is basically entirely meant to be action orientated but thats the exception and even than like i have made clear, it shouldnt be the focus. And what about games where you need top end gear, you need that personal skill, but you also need that teamwork and strategy?
Loading wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » I’m not sure why you think advocating for a high skill ceiling is for single player mmorpgs, because it’s not true. You work together whether it be tab or action, it doesn’t matter if it’s WoW or Darkfall. Your view on balance indicates to me you haven’t played that many action MMOs. I’ve played the spectrum. We are talking about a hybrid in Ashes, so it needs to incorporate the best of both worlds. It needs to work like a hybrid. no im saying a high skill ceiling on personal skill over teamwork, good gear and ability building, and strategy is what makes it a snigle player game. its the fact that YOU arent supposed to be the linchpin based 100% on massive levels of personal skill to be able to avoid attacks and pump out massive dmg but instead everyone is meant to work together in basically a dnd adventure since the mmorpg genre was based on dnd. theres a reason combat balanced around solo play makes a game no longer a mmorpg and its 100% that fact that if its difficulty is based on personal capability ENTIRELY like say bdo or eso than your gonna have a issue. thats the reason im trying to make clear the amount of shit that the supports will need to consider and why i will also point out that a good real mmorpg would have its bossses and even normal enemies all having unique mechanics that make it so even the dps and tanks need to be aware of the enmies they are going after lest they be wiped out by a mechanic they didnt know about. like dont get me wrong, i do ackowledge that some amount of action combat based skill is good for the melee fighters since that combat is basically entirely meant to be action orientated but thats the exception and even than like i have made clear, it shouldnt be the focus.
Solvryn wrote: » I’m not sure why you think advocating for a high skill ceiling is for single player mmorpgs, because it’s not true. You work together whether it be tab or action, it doesn’t matter if it’s WoW or Darkfall. Your view on balance indicates to me you haven’t played that many action MMOs. I’ve played the spectrum. We are talking about a hybrid in Ashes, so it needs to incorporate the best of both worlds. It needs to work like a hybrid.
Noaani wrote: » Loading wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Loading wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » I’m not sure why you think advocating for a high skill ceiling is for single player mmorpgs, because it’s not true. You work together whether it be tab or action, it doesn’t matter if it’s WoW or Darkfall. Your view on balance indicates to me you haven’t played that many action MMOs. I’ve played the spectrum. We are talking about a hybrid in Ashes, so it needs to incorporate the best of both worlds. It needs to work like a hybrid. no im saying a high skill ceiling on personal skill over teamwork, good gear and ability building, and strategy is what makes it a snigle player game. its the fact that YOU arent supposed to be the linchpin based 100% on massive levels of personal skill to be able to avoid attacks and pump out massive dmg but instead everyone is meant to work together in basically a dnd adventure since the mmorpg genre was based on dnd. theres a reason combat balanced around solo play makes a game no longer a mmorpg and its 100% that fact that if its difficulty is based on personal capability ENTIRELY like say bdo or eso than your gonna have a issue. thats the reason im trying to make clear the amount of shit that the supports will need to consider and why i will also point out that a good real mmorpg would have its bossses and even normal enemies all having unique mechanics that make it so even the dps and tanks need to be aware of the enmies they are going after lest they be wiped out by a mechanic they didnt know about. like dont get me wrong, i do ackowledge that some amount of action combat based skill is good for the melee fighters since that combat is basically entirely meant to be action orientated but thats the exception and even than like i have made clear, it shouldnt be the focus. And what about games where you need top end gear, you need that personal skill, but you also need that teamwork and strategy? ok i dont get what you mean there? your just asking the question that as best i can tell with how you worded it basically is just " and what about games that are in different genres to ashes? hmmm?" like my point was that in games that emphasis teamwork and strategy, those are SUPPOSED to be the key things and that gear and personal skill are more so after thoughts as the real challenge is working together as a team when one miss step can bring the whole team down. like you guys still have to explain why ashes is REALLY a open world single player rpg game with multiplayer elements or at best a open world multiplayer rpg instead of a mmorpg because its meant to be like those oldschool mmorpgs like old school WoW with a HEAVY focus on teamwork needing to be something you have to do basically anything. It isnt a different genre. It is literally this exact game. Gear in Ashes is going to be important. If you want to survive long term in this game, you WILL need good gear. You will also need friends that can work together. For the record, WoW never required much in the way of teamwork in comparison to its peers.
Loading wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Loading wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » I get your point, but also understand that I prefer a high skill ceiling. I get that some people would not be able to play it, but there are many of us in the Ashes community who would not have a problem with that level of gameplay. thats the thing. like i said, eso IS NOT anywhere close to balanced how a real mmorpg would be seen as the massively multiplayer means ALL aspects are heavily based on multiplayer including even pvp with the thing that i will say once more is that the amount of shit that a support or even just a ranged dps needs to consider especially since bows should require arrows but be either more powerful than ranged magic or much faster and more consistant and easy to use. like the point im trying to make that its the base mechanics of the class also working together with your groups WILDLY different mechanics and roles they play with what you are advocating for is a singleplayer focused action combat game like BDO or ESO. like sure they are fun games but if thats what you want than you might just actually not be into mmorpgs but instead like i said at best, open world multiplayer rpgs or in reality, open world rpgs with multiplayer elements. its not a bad thing but its just best you understand that AoC seems to not be in your perfered genere of game and hence your comment to some degree is slightly missing the point because your talking about balancing the game around something entirely different. like its already too far down a real MMORPG route to really divert from that core unless you wanna wait for another 7 years to get back to the alpha stage because its base level is built around a massively multplayer online genre first and foremost with combat especially being designed for group combat and VERY specialized roels meant to play entirely different parts. like the idea i mentinoed about how i feel fighter and rouge should work would probably suit your action combat fancy but it wouldnt be a cakewalk since there would be a heavy emphasis on being very vulnerable and weak when it comes to taking dmg with a heavy need to monitor aggro as well as use your movement to avoid the aoes all together rather than avoid attacks with perhaps the dodges could have i frames in pvp so as to stop players from being to squishy in the face of other players not forced to attack the tanks OR they could steal an idea from that show i mentioned with tanks having a pvp focused taunt that doesnt necesarily force players to attack them by making it impossible to attack other players but just punishes any player who does try to attack your teammates with a massive dmg proc thats unavoidable if ya do with a REAAALLLLY long cooldown to match its long duration and make sure that the fight needs to drag out for a LONG while before you can recast it. I’m not sure why you think advocating for a high skill ceiling is for single player mmorpgs, because it’s not true. You work together whether it be tab or action, it doesn’t matter if it’s WoW or Darkfall. Your view on balance indicates to me you haven’t played that many action MMOs. I’ve played the spectrum. We are talking about a hybrid in Ashes, so it needs to incorporate the best of both worlds. It needs to work like a hybrid. my guy the reaspon is simple. high skill ceilings or rather high personal skill ceilings make it so teamwork becomes extermely difficult and most players will just need to rely on their own skill rather than the team. like for example, BDO and ESO both dont really have teammates you fight alongside and work with but rather its more like everyone is a walking god because the personal skill ceiling is to the max that EVERYONE needs to meet a certain dps level and EVERYONE needs to be a tank who can survive the bosses attacks and EVERYONE needs to also have a AT LEAST certain large amount of personal healing meaing more 'teammates' in those games is more so for extra dps and bodies to throw at the boss and not because you need to work as an actual team. a game with heavy restrictions that mean that strategy and teamwork is the true skill ceiling find that they can have everyone easily able to play without any issues of personal skill in terms of what i think your not getting being skill to do action tasks and just play the game at a very high level with instead, everyone hits that level easy but because everyones on that playing field, it means that those who actually know how to work as a team to get the most out of what their group can do will demolish other teams.
Solvryn wrote: » Loading wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » I get your point, but also understand that I prefer a high skill ceiling. I get that some people would not be able to play it, but there are many of us in the Ashes community who would not have a problem with that level of gameplay. thats the thing. like i said, eso IS NOT anywhere close to balanced how a real mmorpg would be seen as the massively multiplayer means ALL aspects are heavily based on multiplayer including even pvp with the thing that i will say once more is that the amount of shit that a support or even just a ranged dps needs to consider especially since bows should require arrows but be either more powerful than ranged magic or much faster and more consistant and easy to use. like the point im trying to make that its the base mechanics of the class also working together with your groups WILDLY different mechanics and roles they play with what you are advocating for is a singleplayer focused action combat game like BDO or ESO. like sure they are fun games but if thats what you want than you might just actually not be into mmorpgs but instead like i said at best, open world multiplayer rpgs or in reality, open world rpgs with multiplayer elements. its not a bad thing but its just best you understand that AoC seems to not be in your perfered genere of game and hence your comment to some degree is slightly missing the point because your talking about balancing the game around something entirely different. like its already too far down a real MMORPG route to really divert from that core unless you wanna wait for another 7 years to get back to the alpha stage because its base level is built around a massively multplayer online genre first and foremost with combat especially being designed for group combat and VERY specialized roels meant to play entirely different parts. like the idea i mentinoed about how i feel fighter and rouge should work would probably suit your action combat fancy but it wouldnt be a cakewalk since there would be a heavy emphasis on being very vulnerable and weak when it comes to taking dmg with a heavy need to monitor aggro as well as use your movement to avoid the aoes all together rather than avoid attacks with perhaps the dodges could have i frames in pvp so as to stop players from being to squishy in the face of other players not forced to attack the tanks OR they could steal an idea from that show i mentioned with tanks having a pvp focused taunt that doesnt necesarily force players to attack them by making it impossible to attack other players but just punishes any player who does try to attack your teammates with a massive dmg proc thats unavoidable if ya do with a REAAALLLLY long cooldown to match its long duration and make sure that the fight needs to drag out for a LONG while before you can recast it. I’m not sure why you think advocating for a high skill ceiling is for single player mmorpgs, because it’s not true. You work together whether it be tab or action, it doesn’t matter if it’s WoW or Darkfall. Your view on balance indicates to me you haven’t played that many action MMOs. I’ve played the spectrum. We are talking about a hybrid in Ashes, so it needs to incorporate the best of both worlds. It needs to work like a hybrid.
Loading wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » I get your point, but also understand that I prefer a high skill ceiling. I get that some people would not be able to play it, but there are many of us in the Ashes community who would not have a problem with that level of gameplay. thats the thing. like i said, eso IS NOT anywhere close to balanced how a real mmorpg would be seen as the massively multiplayer means ALL aspects are heavily based on multiplayer including even pvp with the thing that i will say once more is that the amount of shit that a support or even just a ranged dps needs to consider especially since bows should require arrows but be either more powerful than ranged magic or much faster and more consistant and easy to use. like the point im trying to make that its the base mechanics of the class also working together with your groups WILDLY different mechanics and roles they play with what you are advocating for is a singleplayer focused action combat game like BDO or ESO. like sure they are fun games but if thats what you want than you might just actually not be into mmorpgs but instead like i said at best, open world multiplayer rpgs or in reality, open world rpgs with multiplayer elements. its not a bad thing but its just best you understand that AoC seems to not be in your perfered genere of game and hence your comment to some degree is slightly missing the point because your talking about balancing the game around something entirely different. like its already too far down a real MMORPG route to really divert from that core unless you wanna wait for another 7 years to get back to the alpha stage because its base level is built around a massively multplayer online genre first and foremost with combat especially being designed for group combat and VERY specialized roels meant to play entirely different parts. like the idea i mentinoed about how i feel fighter and rouge should work would probably suit your action combat fancy but it wouldnt be a cakewalk since there would be a heavy emphasis on being very vulnerable and weak when it comes to taking dmg with a heavy need to monitor aggro as well as use your movement to avoid the aoes all together rather than avoid attacks with perhaps the dodges could have i frames in pvp so as to stop players from being to squishy in the face of other players not forced to attack the tanks OR they could steal an idea from that show i mentioned with tanks having a pvp focused taunt that doesnt necesarily force players to attack them by making it impossible to attack other players but just punishes any player who does try to attack your teammates with a massive dmg proc thats unavoidable if ya do with a REAAALLLLY long cooldown to match its long duration and make sure that the fight needs to drag out for a LONG while before you can recast it.
Solvryn wrote: » I get your point, but also understand that I prefer a high skill ceiling. I get that some people would not be able to play it, but there are many of us in the Ashes community who would not have a problem with that level of gameplay.
Loading wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Loading wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Loading wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » I’m not sure why you think advocating for a high skill ceiling is for single player mmorpgs, because it’s not true. You work together whether it be tab or action, it doesn’t matter if it’s WoW or Darkfall. Your view on balance indicates to me you haven’t played that many action MMOs. I’ve played the spectrum. We are talking about a hybrid in Ashes, so it needs to incorporate the best of both worlds. It needs to work like a hybrid. no im saying a high skill ceiling on personal skill over teamwork, good gear and ability building, and strategy is what makes it a snigle player game. its the fact that YOU arent supposed to be the linchpin based 100% on massive levels of personal skill to be able to avoid attacks and pump out massive dmg but instead everyone is meant to work together in basically a dnd adventure since the mmorpg genre was based on dnd. theres a reason combat balanced around solo play makes a game no longer a mmorpg and its 100% that fact that if its difficulty is based on personal capability ENTIRELY like say bdo or eso than your gonna have a issue. thats the reason im trying to make clear the amount of shit that the supports will need to consider and why i will also point out that a good real mmorpg would have its bossses and even normal enemies all having unique mechanics that make it so even the dps and tanks need to be aware of the enmies they are going after lest they be wiped out by a mechanic they didnt know about. like dont get me wrong, i do ackowledge that some amount of action combat based skill is good for the melee fighters since that combat is basically entirely meant to be action orientated but thats the exception and even than like i have made clear, it shouldnt be the focus. And what about games where you need top end gear, you need that personal skill, but you also need that teamwork and strategy? ok i dont get what you mean there? your just asking the question that as best i can tell with how you worded it basically is just " and what about games that are in different genres to ashes? hmmm?" like my point was that in games that emphasis teamwork and strategy, those are SUPPOSED to be the key things and that gear and personal skill are more so after thoughts as the real challenge is working together as a team when one miss step can bring the whole team down. like you guys still have to explain why ashes is REALLY a open world single player rpg game with multiplayer elements or at best a open world multiplayer rpg instead of a mmorpg because its meant to be like those oldschool mmorpgs like old school WoW with a HEAVY focus on teamwork needing to be something you have to do basically anything. It isnt a different genre. It is literally this exact game. Gear in Ashes is going to be important. If you want to survive long term in this game, you WILL need good gear. You will also need friends that can work together. For the record, WoW never required much in the way of teamwork in comparison to its peers. ok i might have mispoken because what i was pointing out is that yes, max level gear should be required before trying the hardest content and should in general be something to strive for but vertical progression isnt the way to make getting that gear feal worth it long term and honestly just makes it feel annoying to keep going for higher level gear knowing there wont be a end point nor a real reason.
Solvryn wrote: » Loading wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Loading wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » I get your point, but also understand that I prefer a high skill ceiling. I get that some people would not be able to play it, but there are many of us in the Ashes community who would not have a problem with that level of gameplay. thats the thing. like i said, eso IS NOT anywhere close to balanced how a real mmorpg would be seen as the massively multiplayer means ALL aspects are heavily based on multiplayer including even pvp with the thing that i will say once more is that the amount of shit that a support or even just a ranged dps needs to consider especially since bows should require arrows but be either more powerful than ranged magic or much faster and more consistant and easy to use. like the point im trying to make that its the base mechanics of the class also working together with your groups WILDLY different mechanics and roles they play with what you are advocating for is a singleplayer focused action combat game like BDO or ESO. like sure they are fun games but if thats what you want than you might just actually not be into mmorpgs but instead like i said at best, open world multiplayer rpgs or in reality, open world rpgs with multiplayer elements. its not a bad thing but its just best you understand that AoC seems to not be in your perfered genere of game and hence your comment to some degree is slightly missing the point because your talking about balancing the game around something entirely different. like its already too far down a real MMORPG route to really divert from that core unless you wanna wait for another 7 years to get back to the alpha stage because its base level is built around a massively multplayer online genre first and foremost with combat especially being designed for group combat and VERY specialized roels meant to play entirely different parts. like the idea i mentinoed about how i feel fighter and rouge should work would probably suit your action combat fancy but it wouldnt be a cakewalk since there would be a heavy emphasis on being very vulnerable and weak when it comes to taking dmg with a heavy need to monitor aggro as well as use your movement to avoid the aoes all together rather than avoid attacks with perhaps the dodges could have i frames in pvp so as to stop players from being to squishy in the face of other players not forced to attack the tanks OR they could steal an idea from that show i mentioned with tanks having a pvp focused taunt that doesnt necesarily force players to attack them by making it impossible to attack other players but just punishes any player who does try to attack your teammates with a massive dmg proc thats unavoidable if ya do with a REAAALLLLY long cooldown to match its long duration and make sure that the fight needs to drag out for a LONG while before you can recast it. I’m not sure why you think advocating for a high skill ceiling is for single player mmorpgs, because it’s not true. You work together whether it be tab or action, it doesn’t matter if it’s WoW or Darkfall. Your view on balance indicates to me you haven’t played that many action MMOs. I’ve played the spectrum. We are talking about a hybrid in Ashes, so it needs to incorporate the best of both worlds. It needs to work like a hybrid. my guy the reaspon is simple. high skill ceilings or rather high personal skill ceilings make it so teamwork becomes extermely difficult and most players will just need to rely on their own skill rather than the team. like for example, BDO and ESO both dont really have teammates you fight alongside and work with but rather its more like everyone is a walking god because the personal skill ceiling is to the max that EVERYONE needs to meet a certain dps level and EVERYONE needs to be a tank who can survive the bosses attacks and EVERYONE needs to also have a AT LEAST certain large amount of personal healing meaing more 'teammates' in those games is more so for extra dps and bodies to throw at the boss and not because you need to work as an actual team. a game with heavy restrictions that mean that strategy and teamwork is the true skill ceiling find that they can have everyone easily able to play without any issues of personal skill in terms of what i think your not getting being skill to do action tasks and just play the game at a very high level with instead, everyone hits that level easy but because everyones on that playing field, it means that those who actually know how to work as a team to get the most out of what their group can do will demolish other teams. Your examples are BDO and ESO, have you played other games? High skill ceiling does not equate to team-work being harder, that is objectively false. That speaks to those specific games designs. High skill ceiling games and deterministic gameplay don't oppose each other, they complement each other. They raise the skill ceiling, otherwise known as mastery level. Player inconsistency brings more deterministic gameplay, not less. The only subjective thing here is fun.
Noaani wrote: » Loading wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Loading wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Loading wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » I’m not sure why you think advocating for a high skill ceiling is for single player mmorpgs, because it’s not true. You work together whether it be tab or action, it doesn’t matter if it’s WoW or Darkfall. Your view on balance indicates to me you haven’t played that many action MMOs. I’ve played the spectrum. We are talking about a hybrid in Ashes, so it needs to incorporate the best of both worlds. It needs to work like a hybrid. no im saying a high skill ceiling on personal skill over teamwork, good gear and ability building, and strategy is what makes it a snigle player game. its the fact that YOU arent supposed to be the linchpin based 100% on massive levels of personal skill to be able to avoid attacks and pump out massive dmg but instead everyone is meant to work together in basically a dnd adventure since the mmorpg genre was based on dnd. theres a reason combat balanced around solo play makes a game no longer a mmorpg and its 100% that fact that if its difficulty is based on personal capability ENTIRELY like say bdo or eso than your gonna have a issue. thats the reason im trying to make clear the amount of shit that the supports will need to consider and why i will also point out that a good real mmorpg would have its bossses and even normal enemies all having unique mechanics that make it so even the dps and tanks need to be aware of the enmies they are going after lest they be wiped out by a mechanic they didnt know about. like dont get me wrong, i do ackowledge that some amount of action combat based skill is good for the melee fighters since that combat is basically entirely meant to be action orientated but thats the exception and even than like i have made clear, it shouldnt be the focus. And what about games where you need top end gear, you need that personal skill, but you also need that teamwork and strategy? ok i dont get what you mean there? your just asking the question that as best i can tell with how you worded it basically is just " and what about games that are in different genres to ashes? hmmm?" like my point was that in games that emphasis teamwork and strategy, those are SUPPOSED to be the key things and that gear and personal skill are more so after thoughts as the real challenge is working together as a team when one miss step can bring the whole team down. like you guys still have to explain why ashes is REALLY a open world single player rpg game with multiplayer elements or at best a open world multiplayer rpg instead of a mmorpg because its meant to be like those oldschool mmorpgs like old school WoW with a HEAVY focus on teamwork needing to be something you have to do basically anything. It isnt a different genre. It is literally this exact game. Gear in Ashes is going to be important. If you want to survive long term in this game, you WILL need good gear. You will also need friends that can work together. For the record, WoW never required much in the way of teamwork in comparison to its peers. ok i might have mispoken because what i was pointing out is that yes, max level gear should be required before trying the hardest content and should in general be something to strive for but vertical progression isnt the way to make getting that gear feal worth it long term and honestly just makes it feel annoying to keep going for higher level gear knowing there wont be a end point nor a real reason. There shouldn't be an end point to getting gear. If players reach that end point, they will stop playing (generally speaking), as progression is the point of an MMORPG to most players.
Loading wrote: » [everyone love the gear progression in eso.
Loading wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Loading wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Loading wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » I get your point, but also understand that I prefer a high skill ceiling. I get that some people would not be able to play it, but there are many of us in the Ashes community who would not have a problem with that level of gameplay. thats the thing. like i said, eso IS NOT anywhere close to balanced how a real mmorpg would be seen as the massively multiplayer means ALL aspects are heavily based on multiplayer including even pvp with the thing that i will say once more is that the amount of shit that a support or even just a ranged dps needs to consider especially since bows should require arrows but be either more powerful than ranged magic or much faster and more consistant and easy to use. like the point im trying to make that its the base mechanics of the class also working together with your groups WILDLY different mechanics and roles they play with what you are advocating for is a singleplayer focused action combat game like BDO or ESO. like sure they are fun games but if thats what you want than you might just actually not be into mmorpgs but instead like i said at best, open world multiplayer rpgs or in reality, open world rpgs with multiplayer elements. its not a bad thing but its just best you understand that AoC seems to not be in your perfered genere of game and hence your comment to some degree is slightly missing the point because your talking about balancing the game around something entirely different. like its already too far down a real MMORPG route to really divert from that core unless you wanna wait for another 7 years to get back to the alpha stage because its base level is built around a massively multplayer online genre first and foremost with combat especially being designed for group combat and VERY specialized roels meant to play entirely different parts. like the idea i mentinoed about how i feel fighter and rouge should work would probably suit your action combat fancy but it wouldnt be a cakewalk since there would be a heavy emphasis on being very vulnerable and weak when it comes to taking dmg with a heavy need to monitor aggro as well as use your movement to avoid the aoes all together rather than avoid attacks with perhaps the dodges could have i frames in pvp so as to stop players from being to squishy in the face of other players not forced to attack the tanks OR they could steal an idea from that show i mentioned with tanks having a pvp focused taunt that doesnt necesarily force players to attack them by making it impossible to attack other players but just punishes any player who does try to attack your teammates with a massive dmg proc thats unavoidable if ya do with a REAAALLLLY long cooldown to match its long duration and make sure that the fight needs to drag out for a LONG while before you can recast it. I’m not sure why you think advocating for a high skill ceiling is for single player mmorpgs, because it’s not true. You work together whether it be tab or action, it doesn’t matter if it’s WoW or Darkfall. Your view on balance indicates to me you haven’t played that many action MMOs. I’ve played the spectrum. We are talking about a hybrid in Ashes, so it needs to incorporate the best of both worlds. It needs to work like a hybrid. my guy the reaspon is simple. high skill ceilings or rather high personal skill ceilings make it so teamwork becomes extermely difficult and most players will just need to rely on their own skill rather than the team. like for example, BDO and ESO both dont really have teammates you fight alongside and work with but rather its more like everyone is a walking god because the personal skill ceiling is to the max that EVERYONE needs to meet a certain dps level and EVERYONE needs to be a tank who can survive the bosses attacks and EVERYONE needs to also have a AT LEAST certain large amount of personal healing meaing more 'teammates' in those games is more so for extra dps and bodies to throw at the boss and not because you need to work as an actual team. a game with heavy restrictions that mean that strategy and teamwork is the true skill ceiling find that they can have everyone easily able to play without any issues of personal skill in terms of what i think your not getting being skill to do action tasks and just play the game at a very high level with instead, everyone hits that level easy but because everyones on that playing field, it means that those who actually know how to work as a team to get the most out of what their group can do will demolish other teams. Your examples are BDO and ESO, have you played other games? High skill ceiling does not equate to team-work being harder, that is objectively false. That speaks to those specific games designs. High skill ceiling games and deterministic gameplay don't oppose each other, they complement each other. They raise the skill ceiling, otherwise known as mastery level. Player inconsistency brings more deterministic gameplay, not less. The only subjective thing here is fun. last thing i will say to you seen as im done repeating myself is that in a game like for honor or dark tide or payday 2 or rust or name your fucking pick, sure, deterministic gameplay based on a high skill level required to play endgame is literally what makes the content for those games in the first place but the issue is that an mmorpg isnt about deterministic gameplay that always encourages solo play and an elitist mindset that make the playerbase smaller by telling even the average denominator to fuck off isnt good for an mmorpg as mmos are supposed to be about the adventure and the thrill of questing with your friends through massive sprawling worlds. if that doesnt tickle your fancy because you think that it'd be too slow or annoying to have to rely on other people beause they keep dragging you down with their base level low skill level fucking things up than maybe consider whether ashes is really the game for you. note that i wont respond unless i deem that future comments are actually new points and not just continuous misunderstandings and repeats.
