Azherae wrote: » Seriously, you guys are the worst...
WHIT3ROS3 wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Seriously, you guys are the worst... The "worst" is demanding the world conform to your own triggers and sensibilities. Those are YOUR responsibility, not everyone else's.
Azherae wrote: » WHIT3ROS3 wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Seriously, you guys are the worst... The "worst" is demanding the world conform to your own triggers and sensibilities. Those are YOUR responsibility, not everyone else's. Yeah yeah, the predictable response. Except that the whole point here was 'people should deal with their own problems' which they have been doing in other games up until now by modding. Console games add Arachnophobia because they can't be modded. Ashes shouldn't be able to be modded. I'm fine with the 'no, deal with your own problems don't push them on someone else' narrative when there's a proper path to that. But I don't really expect much else, I'm just surprised at the lack of understanding of this topic among posters who then have this response type. But y'all keep going like this, I only care what IS does. Seriously applying the slippery slope fallacy to arachnophobia of all possible choices though... slow clap for sure.
Azherae wrote: » I'm fine with the 'no, deal with your own problems don't push them on someone else' narrative when there's a proper path to that.
WHIT3ROS3 wrote: » Azherae wrote: » I'm fine with the 'no, deal with your own problems don't push them on someone else' narrative when there's a proper path to that. There is. If you can't handle seeing digital spiders in a computer game then the game is not for you. There are over 500 named phobias, settings for one means settings for all, unless you are going to appoint yourself the supreme arbiter of who gets the special mollycoddling nonsense and who does not. As I initially said, I'm generally a pretty accepting and accommodating chap. This is nonsense and should be treated as such.
Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » WHIT3ROS3 wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Seriously, you guys are the worst... The "worst" is demanding the world conform to your own triggers and sensibilities. Those are YOUR responsibility, not everyone else's. Yeah yeah, the predictable response. Except that the whole point here was 'people should deal with their own problems' which they have been doing in other games up until now by modding. Console games add Arachnophobia because they can't be modded. Ashes shouldn't be able to be modded. I'm fine with the 'no, deal with your own problems don't push them on someone else' narrative when there's a proper path to that. But I don't really expect much else, I'm just surprised at the lack of understanding of this topic among posters who then have this response type. But y'all keep going like this, I only care what IS does. Seriously applying the slippery slope fallacy to arachnophobia of all possible choices though... slow clap for sure. You can mod other mmorpgs? That would be news to me if you can mod ESO, rift, WoW, ff, etc.
Azherae wrote: » But I don't really expect much else, I'm just surprised at the lack of understanding of this topic among posters who then have this response type. But y'all keep going like this, I only care what IS does. Seriously applying the slippery slope fallacy to arachnophobia of all possible choices though... slow clap for sure.
Azherae wrote: » If the community response is 'if you have Arachnophobia don't play' that is what it is.
NiKr wrote: » Azherae wrote: » But I don't really expect much else, I'm just surprised at the lack of understanding of this topic among posters who then have this response type. But y'all keep going like this, I only care what IS does. Seriously applying the slippery slope fallacy to arachnophobia of all possible choices though... slow clap for sure. If by some unholy near-impossible chance we get some good action-based combat for some mobs (namely spiders) and that combat relies on that mob's appendages movement or inherent type of the creature - how would (or do) the mod address that? What do other games do in those cases? Iirc the Grounded game has spiders as literally 2 blobs hanging in the air. How would that work with animations or if the spiders had some special mechanics (like that thread suggesting spider's kids hanging on the mother and jumping off in combat or smth like that)? Also, we've seen that "raise front legs" animation already. Would that have to go away? Or can arachnophobic people be ok with blobs that have 8 legs and can activate that animation? And as was brought up before, what about snake phobias? How can you change a snake into smth that doesn't look like a snake? A snake is literally a moving noodle. And if you don't give the ability to change snakes - why the unequal treatment? I have unreasonable fear of insects. My heart rate goes up when I see one, and I move away from the insect by instinct. This applies for both crawling and flying ones. Should Intrepid change any and all wasps in the game? All centi-/milli-pedes? Literally any insect? How the game would look like at that point? I'm all for support of people, but there's gotta be some kind of line somewhere. I could definitely agree if that line is just "it's a greyscale model with no intricate details". That seems like a somewhat easy solution to the problem from the dev pov, but I'm not sure if the phobic people would be fine with that approach.
WHIT3ROS3 wrote: » Azherae wrote: » If the community response is 'if you have Arachnophobia don't play' that is what it is. No. The response is "If you have Arachnophobia that is so severe that the sight of a spider in a computer game is so overwhelmingly debilitating that you literally cannot function. Then you need some serious professional help and asking a small computer game developer to accommodate your personal trigger is not only unfair, it comes across as entitled and arrogant."
Kesthely wrote: » Quote: "Ashes of creation is not for everyone"
Azherae wrote: » So if we have to choose between 'some people get a crappy alt model for spiders' and 'Intrepid spending time deciding how precisely to place their spiders to give people ways to avoid seeing them', I for one am taking the crappy alt model. Any chance at all that I can 'wear you guys out on this topic' by keeping this argument up? It works well for my data parsing anyway. Even you are going the whole 'slippery slope' route, huh. For once, I'm surprised. Model updated.
NiKr wrote: » Azherae wrote: » So if we have to choose between 'some people get a crappy alt model for spiders' and 'Intrepid spending time deciding how precisely to place their spiders to give people ways to avoid seeing them', I for one am taking the crappy alt model. Any chance at all that I can 'wear you guys out on this topic' by keeping this argument up? It works well for my data parsing anyway. Even you are going the whole 'slippery slope' route, huh. For once, I'm surprised. Model updated. I'm worried more about the gameplay question of the "blob". Can that be seen as an advantage? And if it is, in some way, then I'd assume most people will use that mod to gain that advantage (just as people do with visual settings to remove grass or to increase npc draw distance). Or at the other side of the spectrum, could that be a disadvantage to the phobic people? If they can't properly fight a spider mob - they'll be avoiding it. So they'd be doing exactly the same thing as when there is no phobia option. And I do find it interesting that arachnophobia is the line for a lot of companies. Is it just due to numbers of people with it? What about all other popular phobias like heights, tight spaces, crowds? Dungeons will have tight spaces so some people might not be able to farm them. The game will most definitely have huge crowds, especially around huge events. And gliding mounts (and scientific blimps) imply semi-frequent movement at big heights. All of those would impact a phobic person's gameplay. And all of it can be avoided in just the same way as spiders can be. I understand that slippery slope argument is a weak one, but I feel like it's silly to address the issues of one minority while also ignoring the other similarly-sized minorities. If anything, I'd love for there to be way of knowing where exactly those spiders (and ideally any other mobs) are. Add it to in-game maps, npc dialogues or, hell, have a "spiders nearby" system message if you have a phobia setting turned on. This would help all the other players as well and would just be a good QoL thing for the game. Let's people avoid their phobias, while also letting others find what they want. As for wearing us out on the topic. For me, I don't think I can understand the point enough to agree with it. I understand that it makes me ignorant and I wish I could see it, but I simply cannot. My brain sees the difference between reality and a game, so in-game insects don't trigger a physical response in me. And if somehow, unconsciously, in-game insects have helped me deal with irl encounters better - than I'm even more biased against phobia-based changes. And you know how I approach issues - I bash my head against them. So even with irl insects, with time I learned to better control my response to them, because I'd just overpower the fear and either ignore the insect (cause I've heard that some of them are useful) or kill it asap. Maybe my fear is not a phobia, which is why I was able to get better at it, but I've heard that exposure therapy works and there's no safer place to do it than through a video game. On this note I'm going to bed, but I also don't really have anything to add on the topic. As you said, it's up to Intrepid, so it's not like my opinion matters here. I won't be protesting the game if they add phobia features. I'd say that I'd feel bad for anyone who has a non-spider phobia who won't get a feature of their own, but I'm too selfish and ignorant to truly feel bad for them either.
Mag7spy wrote: » It is 100% silly, though I suppose they could add a base mesh with a default attack, and give players the option to tag certain kinds of mobs they don't want to see with a base mesh (minus boss types of mobs). It will be clunky and more difficult for them but doesn't really matter. That being said if your immense fears don't like you play games I'd say just don't play the game. If we are thinking business wise that .00001% won't affect the game at all. If players are so deadly scared from a non horror game lacking jump scares. Refuse to explore a world that has spiders in it, refuse to attempt to avoid them if they know they are there. That is their own problem to refuse to find a balance and expecting the game to do it all for them and doesn't effect pretty much all players playing the game. 0 loss there.
Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » It is 100% silly, though I suppose they could add a base mesh with a default attack, and give players the option to tag certain kinds of mobs they don't want to see with a base mesh (minus boss types of mobs). It will be clunky and more difficult for them but doesn't really matter. That being said if your immense fears don't like you play games I'd say just don't play the game. If we are thinking business wise that .00001% won't affect the game at all. If players are so deadly scared from a non horror game lacking jump scares. Refuse to explore a world that has spiders in it, refuse to attempt to avoid them if they know they are there. That is their own problem to refuse to find a balance and expecting the game to do it all for them and doesn't effect pretty much all players playing the game. 0 loss there. Sooo you're gonna literally just make up numbers to support your supposed point as usual. Cool, cool. At least you're consistent.
Azherae wrote: » Kesthely wrote: » Quote: "Ashes of creation is not for everyone" Yes, be sure to add that in the Dev Discussion on the matter when its made, preferably after every arachnophobe's post so they really get the message.
