[SURVEY] Is Gathering PvE Content?

I'll preface this by begging for a proper feature to conduct surveys and do polls (Unless I am just incapable of finding that feature in the forum) to get as accurate an opinion on the matter as possible.

So there have been a few discussions recently that boiled down to the question

"What is PvE content?"
(1) Is Gathering contributing to YOUR satisfying PvE experience?

Shoutout to @Noaani for bringing this up.
To find out what people see as PvE content or not I would like to conduct a number of polls to find out what satisfies players desire for PvE content.

How to participate:

The poll will be structured to be "Yes" or "No" questions.
Read the white colored question above and then like one of the two comments below that you align with. In 2-3 days I'd like to come back to this threat and discuss the results. PLEASE LIKE ONLY ONE OF THE OPTIONS.

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Comments

Kilion

-= YES =-

Gathering counts as PvE content for me

Kilion

-= NO =-

Gathering does not count as PvE content for me

Noaani

The reason there is no facility for polls on these forums is because Intrepid don't want us to run polls - because some people mistakenly place some value in them.

Kilion

How can poll amongst those whose opinion would be of primary concern to the matter - if participation is high enough - not mater? Or what would be the criteria for the poll be valird and of value to you?

Noaani

Kilion wrote: »

How can poll amongst those whose opinion would be of primary concern to the matter - if participation is high enough - not mater?

There are a number of reasons.

First, if the questions aren't worded properly, they can lead respondents to one answer over others.

Second, there is a bias in polls towards what ever the first answer is.

Third, an individual question on a topic is never going to give any meaningful data.

Fourth, without a proper introduction to the questions (plural), respondants may be answering based off of false assumptions.

Even proferssionally run polls are to be taken with a grain of salt - let alone amateur polls.

Caww

Incoming comment: Gathering can be a frustrating activity when competition for the nodes erodes any chance of just getting some stuff to carry on crafting or sell, it turns into a large time sink more than anything else and fails the "satisfying" portion of the poll question (for which I did provide a proper No response).

Lash

In ashes it is both. There is things like open world PvP battlegrounds where the objective is to gather resources from the ruins of a destroyed node. Then there is more traditional resource gathering with less expectation of pvp.

Kilion

Noaani wrote: »

Kilion wrote: »

How can poll amongst those whose opinion would be of primary concern to the matter - if participation is high enough - not mater?

There are a number of reasons.

First, if the questions aren't worded properly, they can lead respondents to one answer over others.

Second, there is a bias in polls towards what ever the first answer is.

Third, an individual question on a topic is never going to give any meaningful data.

Fourth, without a proper introduction to the questions (plural), respondants may be answering based off of false assumptions.

Even proferssionally run polls are to be taken with a grain of salt - let alone amateur polls.

So are you suggesting that my attempt to poll this topic is already completely irrelevant?

Noaani

Kilion wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Kilion wrote: »

How can poll amongst those whose opinion would be of primary concern to the matter - if participation is high enough - not mater?

There are a number of reasons.

First, if the questions aren't worded properly, they can lead respondents to one answer over others.

Second, there is a bias in polls towards what ever the first answer is.

Third, an individual question on a topic is never going to give any meaningful data.

Fourth, without a proper introduction to the questions (plural), respondants may be answering based off of false assumptions.

Even proferssionally run polls are to be taken with a grain of salt - let alone amateur polls.

So are you suggesting that my attempt to poll this topic is already completely irrelevant?

Any poster attempt at polling anything is irrelevent.

Kilion

Quite the convenient take.

JamesSunderland

Are the gatherables part of the Environment? Yes

Does the gatherables pose a direct threat to the player? Not Usually, but they can.

Like making certain plants and flowers have a chance to apply poisons/debuffs to the player,
making mineral veins having a chance to spawn dangerous stone elementals when mined
or dangerous forest guardians when taking down trees.

For me personally? I really don't care.

Noaani

Kilion wrote: »

Quite the convenient take.

I mean, it isnt.

It's why Intrepid staff can run polls here and the rest of us cant. They explained it a while ago - though I cant remember if it was Vaknar, Margret or Trost.

There is even quite the body of literature on how hard it is to write polls without either intentional or unintentional bias. It's one of those things where I'm quite happy for you to not take my word for it, but at least look in to it yourself for a few minutes.

Azherae

"Is gathering PvE content?"

"Mu" (the question is wrong).

Kilion

JamesSunderland wrote: »

Are the gatherables part of the Environment? Yes

Does the gatherables pose a direct threat to the player? Not Usually, but they can.

Like making certain plants and flowers have a chance to apply poisons/debuffs to the player,
making mineral veins having a chance to spawn dangerous stone elementals when mined
or dangerous forest guardians when taking down trees.

For me personally? I really don't care.

That's exactly why I asked for whether people perceive gathering as part of their PvE experience, instead of asking them to define gathering. All the definitions in the world mean little if they are unable to serve a purpose in a discussion.

Noaani

Kilion wrote: »

All the definitions in the world mean little if they are unable to serve a purpose in a discussion.

Wait, so you know you asked a question on an undefined term, yet you still think a poll is valid?

Kilion

Noaani wrote: »

Wait, so you know you asked a question on an undefined term, yet you still think a poll is valid?

I asked the question that we disagreed on, which was not "what defines PvE" but whether or not PvE players will be attracted to the game with what it is going to offer. One of these components that COULD satisfy a PvE players desire is gathering: Hence the questions to ask have to gauge exactly that, independent of whether that suits your or mine definition.

If Gathering satisfies the PvE desire of PvE players, then that would mean your argument has become a bit weaker that Intrepid is not doing enough.

Veeshan

Harvesting/Crafting is a different catagory imo.
PvP = player vs player
PvE = Player vs environment (Tree and things dont typically fight back so cant realy say vsing envirment there)

Noaani

Kilion wrote: »

I asked the question that we disagreed on, which was not "what defines PvE" but whether or not PvE players will be attracted to the game with what it is going to offer.

That isn't the question you asked.

We were having a discussion, and that discussion had some context. This poll removed that context.

See, gathering cloth in WoW could be considered a PvE activity, because you have to kill mobs to get it. Same with skinning in many games. If someone had that in mind when reading the question, they would probably answer yes.

One of these components that COULD satisfy a PvE players desire is gathering

But that also isn't the question that you asked.

@Tearl Stoneheart @Liniker @JustVine @SkylarckTheBotanist @Laetitian @Nerror @Jhoren

As of now, that is the list of peopel that have answered yes to the above question - I would like to add context to the question, in order to see if any of you would keep the same answer.

The context is in regards to getting players running guild based content in their current game of choice. The question isn't "is harvesting PvE content", the question in context shoud be "is gathering content as we understand it to be in Ashese likely to convince players happily running guild content with their friends in a game now to leave that game for this game, generally speaking.".

Does anyone think the answer to that is still "yes"?

If Gathering satisfies the PvE desire of PvE players

Your poll has no means of determining if a respondent is primarily a PvP or PvE player, or an equal split.

Are you even starting to see why Intrepid have disabled polls for us?

Kilion

Veeshan wrote: »

Harvesting/Crafting is a different catagory imo.
PvP = player vs player
PvE = Player vs environment (Tree and things dont typically fight back so cant realy say vsing envirment there)

Comes down to how people define it. I didn't ask for the definition because by clicking "No" someone would also be able to show that this is not what they perceive as part of PvE, while by clicking "Yes" they can indicate that it is - independent on how exactly each and every single one defines PvE.

Kilion

@Noaani yep I can see it.

There is no point trying to talk to people anymore, because they are even trying to tell you now what you think.

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