I thought everything looked beautiful - the graphics, the environment, trees, farmhouses, animals. The mechanics of the freehold and the ways you interact with it all look great.
My concern - the bidding, buying/selling of freeholds, limited amount of them. I'm fine with those things in and of themselves.
Let me just take a step back real quick. Games with open world pvp don't die because of open world pvp, as many carebears will falsely tell you. They die because of RMT, cheating, power gaps being way too big, the snowball effect of rich and powerful guilds getting infinitely more rich and powerful, and unrestricted, rampant, full loot drop ganking.
Material to this conversation - RMT/cheating, power gaps and the snowball effect. These are the issues I can see potentially popping up with this freehold system overhaul. I don't know that for sure though. The freehold system is far too complex, and Ashes itself with all of it's systems is too complex to know how exactly this all pans out.
I'm fully on board with "not everyone's a winner," risk vs reward, "it takes time and effort to achieve things." Love all of those concepts. And I'm a pvper. Tend to get moderately rich in mmos too. And I join top tier guilds. These are just qualifiers for my point, coming from an mmo power gamer.
My point, what I'm trying to say is, just be careful. Don't make the game TOO top heavy. Don't make the same mistakes that previous mmos with pvp and competition over resources did. You have to keep the game at a certain threshold of competitiveness or people just give up.
It seems to me that freeholds have shifted into being primarly attainable only by power gamers. Hard to say that for sure at this point, but that's how it seems. And I'm fine with that to an extent. But be careful. And balance it. Don't leave everyone who can't get a freehold in the dust. The system shouldn't create a huge windfall of profit/power for power gamers who were already strong in the first place. Balance it by making other activities in the game reasonably competitive with how lucrative owning a freehold is.
I want to start my feedback by reminding Intrepid about the "vocal minority" especially when we have streamers that are sending their viewers to give biased negative feedback due to their own discontent with the project for other reasons.
With that said, I am very happy with the nature of the changes that we had. In most MMOs, housing is irrelevant, it's just something you can buy and customize for RP reasons or getting minor benefits. What AoC is doing with Multiple types of housing is amazing. Giving casual players and less dedicated players a chance to own housing within nodes, while also having an option for the most dedicated playerbase with freeholds, making them highly valuable and exclusive, this is is Good.
It was very reassuring to see intrepid sticking to their core philosophies that many players forget, that "not everyone will be a winner" and there is Different content for different players, Everyone will get housing - everyone will get mounts, everyone will get gear - but not everyone will get flying mounts, legendary gear or freeholds due to their limited and rare nature and that is amazing. Do Not Change this.
Making these epic achievements is a core part of making meaningful accomplishments in an MMO, if everyone has a freehold, a legendary item, a flying mount it means nothing. Ashes isn't a game about having your happy safe FarmVille, it's a PvX MMORPG with risk vs reward and meaningful content that should not try to cater for the masses - we already have MANY, MANY MMOs that are and will continue to do that - we Need something different.
I want to start my feedback by reminding Intrepid about the "vocal minority" especially when we have streamers that are sending their viewers to give biased negative feedback due to their own discontent with the project for other reasons.
With that said, I am very happy with the nature of the changes that we had. In most MMOs, housing is irrelevant, it's just something you can buy and customize for RP reasons or getting minor benefits. What AoC is doing with Multiple types of housing is amazing. Giving casual players and less dedicated players a chance to own housing within nodes, while also having an option for the most dedicated playerbase with freeholds, making them highly valuable and exclusive, this is is Good.
It was very reassuring to see intrepid sticking to their core philosophies that many players forget, that "not everyone will be a winner" and there is Different content for different players, Everyone will get housing - everyone will get mounts, everyone will get gear - but not everyone will get flying mounts, legendary gear or freeholds due to their limited and rare nature and that is amazing. Do Not Change this.
Making these epic achievements is a core part of making meaningful accomplishments in an MMO, if everyone has a freehold, a legendary item, a flying mount it means nothing. Ashes isn't a game about having your happy safe FarmVille, it's a PvX MMORPG with risk vs reward and meaningful content that should not try to cater for the masses - we already have MANY, MANY MMOs that are and will continue to do that - we Need something different.
its wild that your ok with having a core mechanic of the game locked off to players so your willing to spit in the face of everyone cause you wanna feel special for a house wild so you basically only want guilds and rmt players to have the Controle of the housing market (that's what this will cause if you cant see that your blind) and you willing to tell players that want to be master crafters or do animal husbandry to fuck off your really ok with that your stupid if that's the case.
So for the constructive criticism, I would remind Intrepid that "you are not your designs, your designs are not you"
With that said, I think this pivot on Freeholds is a terrible one. It isn't learning the lessons on Open World Housing from Archeage, Elyon, and isn't taking into account the problems from Final Fantasy XIV.
If you want to limit the number of Master and Grandmaster Processors, than limit how and when and where they can get those top tier crafting stations.
However, saying there are "3 other types of housing" when we know in Node houses start at 8 in a Stage 3 Node and Grow to some unknown number at Stage 6, really isn't a solution since the number of Nodes dropped from 103 to 85 and there is no housing in stage 0/1/2 Nodes
Stage 3 Nodes have 50 apartments, and Stage 4 and higher ONLY have more if the Mayor builds the building.
So basically a percentage of the population will own a home or a freehold, and everyone else will be stuck in Instanced Housing.
If you haven't paid attention to any of the other games that have open world and instanced housing, Instanced Housing is a consolation prize and a "thank you for being a second class citizen" award.
Wait seriously? Are these numbers correct?
85 nodes. 50 apartments (hell, let's say mayor builds double: 100 apartments). That's 8,500 people with housing. 50,000 registered accounts per server. Hell let's double it again. 17,000. And again. Every mayor in every possible node builds 7 extra apartment buildings instead of something else. 34,000. At 50,000 registered accounts per server, that's 16,000 homeless people without even instanced housing.
The 8*85=680 (or doubled 1,360 (or doubled-doubled 2,720)) non-instanced node houses aren't even gonna make a dent.
(16,000-2720)/85=156.
Are there gonna be 156 freeholds at every single node? I really hope you did the math, Intrepid, cause it seems like you're gonna have a homeless problem even on a very well-developed server.
Steven said the in-node house numbers have changed during his text based answer session tonight.
How do you feel about the size-and-shape inventory management system?
-> Seems fine. Inventory isn't a big deal for me.
How do you feel about the systems shown thus far for planting crops on your Freehold? Does anything in particular concern or excite you regarding this?
-> Are the plants single plant or big group plantings?
How do you feel about raising livestock and collecting resources from them? Does anything in particular concern or excite you regarding this?
-> The animals look good, I like the pen style as opposed to Archeage 'lines of cows'.
What kind of customization do you want with your Freehold, or buildings on your Freehold?
-> If the grounds on the freehold are not pvp safe, perhaps adding some walls or physical barriers? You have to have some safe areas even in a big pvp game like this. You can't keep people in gank stress 24/7, they'll quit.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited about regarding what was shown with the Freehold Preview?
-> Honestly, the freeholds look great. I love all the content shown, it's all very exciting to see and play with. It's a bit confusing if it's family content or guild content due to the amounts of resources required.
Is there anything in particular you’re concerned about regarding what was shown with the Freehold Preview?
-> A lot. A whole lot. Using what is now a very limited resource (Freeholds) for endgame processing, therefore gating endgame gear, solely in the hands of players who will do their best to manipulate and control said system system is a truly awful idea. It will lead to hard content lockouts. Small guilds and players with a handful of friends will already be prevented from running dungeons, bosses, severe risk on the ocean, and now can't obtain land reasonably. I played a lot of Archeage. The systems inspired by Archeage I largely like, but this... this is a serious issue.
As time goes on it feels like Ashes becomes more and more hardcore, more forcing players into bigger guilds to even be able to play it at all. I'm all for needing other players to craft and work together for content. I can't stand how easy MMO's have become and how other players are no better than NPC's. That said, mega guilds will exist and they will try to control every server in the game. It won't be hard. We saw it with player nations, it will happen here. They will pool money to control real estate on members and hog plots.
Limiting plots like this and having them so innately tied to economy and profession progression is a truly awful idea that has been done before. We've seen it in Archeage, FFXIV, and in both cases the open world housing systems were horribly restrictive of a large part of the game. It was even more egregious in Archeage since land = resources = money. Without land you had no money and couldn't craft, basically. Yes there are sieges and the ability to buy plots.
Buying and bidding on plots WILL result in rampant RMT just like it has in the two games mentioned above. Limiting freeholds to one account isn't enough. XIV players have the same restriction and still know every in and out of their system to avoid those locks and still sell FC houses over discord, timers and all that.
This is something that remains to be seen in testing, and it will vary by server, but the biggest concern is quite simply... not ever being able to experience this content due to it being player controlled. If someone needs a freehold to make the most money, then they can't buy a freehold because the prices of those plots will be based on the high end of the 'freehold based' economy. So not being able to make enough money to buy a freehold if you miss the first rush, means being unable to advance crafting or really do many professions, severely limiting players without access to a freehold in their ability to keep up in the game.
Freehold = resources = money = gear. Are these players without freeholds going to genuinely stand a chance in the economy and pvp nature of the game, or will they primarily stay under the heel of 'mega guilds' who control huge parts of the system?
This is the question of a player freedom system potentially being a bit too anti player. I know Ashes is a niche game, but if it's not fun, if it's too difficult, if it turns into XIV housing with almost everyone being locked out of ever experiencing the content due to manipulations, multi accounts, player control and limited spots... well. We've seen how well that's worked out. Not well. I don't know what the answer is here, but if I had to pick a single thing to say is a really bad idea, it's the sale of freeholds by players for gold.
Make it some sort of in-game system to sell and buy plots that players can't profit from or freeholds will be RMT fodder 100%.
Even if you make it so that plots have a set price, players will still find ways to RMT by relinquishing the plot and letting someone else buy it (XIV), but it's still better than in-game bidding for in-game rewards that will turn it into a huge money and gear boosting exchange system.
I'm gonna edit this again and say... you can be ganked while processing and have your hard earned materials stolen, are you serious? You must have stress breaks in this game. If you're under gank threat literally 24/7 even at your home, that's too much. Bandits will just camp freeholds. Keep the freehold grounds pvp safe, this is getting ridiculous. The entire rest of the game is a pvp playground, give people something they can relax on for crying out loud.
I'm seeing some posts mention that if a freehold is destroyed, the whole thing is gone now with nothing mailed back or returned as a template? I can't find a source for this, but on the off chance there's any truth to it... if that's real, this system is dead on arrival. Who is going to put in so much work and get literally nothing back only to do it completely over? That's about as anti fun as it gets. That'd be insane... if it's true. Another thing only the biggest guilds will control.
Straight up...I want a monetary (not digital) refund on everything.
The lottery system, let's call it what it is, it's a house lottery. FFXIV has this. The previous system it had encouraged botters to constantly ping a housing placard until they won it. Nobody, not even those with houses currently, like or enjoy either system, so why would you purposefully choose a system, from a game where it's own community doesn't like that system, and think "Hmm oh yes. This is quite what we need mmm yess"? Was there no research done at all for this? All it takes is one google.
You're purposefully locking a system behind freeholds, freeholds that will not be more than 5k population wise...and you know damn good and well that people will buy them up and not use them for processing. The other situation; zerg guilds will just gobble up everything, and let's be honest with ourselves here, that -IS- what will happen. Zerg guilds ruin games when they are allowed to do so and you are fully enabling them to do so here. Congrats zergs can make the best processing stuff, you know they won't share with anyone else, no guild in their right mind would give up that privilege without a tax or something.
Making the BEST part of a system be tied to something that is has such a minuscule (5k) amount compared to the overall wanted pop of the servers (50k) themselves is not only bad design, but self sabotaging the game and it's economy in a way that it will not recover. You know as well as I do that people aren't looking at freeholds to use for processing anymore, no you moved that goal post by making them hella limited so now it's a full on ground breaking achievement, that people will only want them for that alone. You think they're gonna let randoms use their stuff? I know that -you- know that won't happen like you want us to think it will from experience, even less now with all the crafters you drove off with this.
On top of this, when I want to take a break and relax in game where the hell am I supposed to go now? Narnia? I can't go into my damn yard and farm because the Turdburglers have been staking my place out for the past week and they want blood. So you want me to what? Balance Teacups? Fake nap in the closet? The point being, it's full on dumb that they're just going to be able to come onto my land, slap me around like a trouser snake, and then leave. Why even have this be a thing?
You keep saying that "Ashes isn't for everyone and that's ok". But the question that needs to be asked at this point is, "who is it for?", as eventually even those that thought it was for them, it turns out it wasn't.
Look, the direction this game has taken, it's asinine design choices in several areas, people's inability to know what is and isn't in the game anymore, marketing for skins that people are NOT going to be able to use now - this is really my final straw with this thing. If you wanna keep on keepin on, then fine by me, but myself and many others want off. Either make it right and fix this asininity or cut us loose and refund us.
its wild that your ok with having a core mechanic of the game locked off to players so your willing to spit in the face of everyone cause you wanna feel special for a house wild so you basically only want guilds and rmt players to have the Controle of the housing market (that's what this will cause if you cant see that your blind) and you willing to tell players that want to be master crafters or do animal husbandry to fuck off your really ok with that your stupid if that's the case.
So, I understand your feelings are hurt, since your dream of living your farmville fantasy was crushed, so I will reply to all your insults with this question: How is EVE Online still going strong after 20 years? It's 10 times more hardcore than ashes ever will be, casual players get crushed, yet, still alive after 20 years, so... yea, maybe you should find a game that will make you happy Ashes ain't it
The problem is that many, many people are feeling lied to right now with this freehold system 'change'. It wasn't always sold this way, it wasn't described this way. Players made plans around it, guilds around it, bought into the game for it, and now it's gone. Ashes isn't for everyone, Eve is still alive. Neither of those things matter when it feels like a game breaking bait and switch. It's not casuals wanting to play Farmville, it's players wanting what they've been told would be there for multiple years now.
The people asking for refunds should absolutely get them if they want it, or at least the opportunity to be refunded after A2 if they still want one and these systems are tested. This 'change' in the game is a mistake at best, a lie most likely, and at worst a community disaster.
its wild that your ok with having a core mechanic of the game locked off to players so your willing to spit in the face of everyone cause you wanna feel special for a house wild so you basically only want guilds and rmt players to have the Controle of the housing market (that's what this will cause if you cant see that your blind) and you willing to tell players that want to be master crafters or do animal husbandry to fuck off your really ok with that your stupid if that's the case.
So, I understand your feelings are hurt, since your dream of living your farmville fantasy was crushed, so I will reply to all your insults with this question: How is EVE Online still going strong after 20 years? It's 10 times more hardcore than ashes ever will be, casual players get crushed, yet, still alive after 20 years, so... yea, maybe you should find a game that will make you happy Ashes ain't it
The changes to the free hold system are the worst decision Intrepid has made to date.
After five years of sales you change from "everyone can get a freehold, it just may not be where you want it" to "anyone can get a freehold, it's just a monumental achievement to get one" And now were at "owning a
Freehold is a privilege not a right. Limited number of plots and those plots can be sold... AND you have to bid on them."
The stance was always that they could not be sold and now we have selling and bidding. RMT will be impossible to stop now. You may catch people who do it, but what's losing a 15 dollar sub when someone can make a few hundred just selling one freehold plot.
For the last five years the only information we had on losing a freehold was that "all your stuff would be packed up and sent to do if your freehold gets attacked after a siege, excluding materials. but like furniture and blueprints and all that will show up in your mail or something" Now its "you lose everything, start all over"
After Five years of "the best crafting and processing stations will in metros" Now we have "the best stations are located ONLY on freeholds, Also you need a leveled crafting/processing station for EACH.
So to be a master at a trade skill, you have to be one of the limited number of people able to buy a freehold plot from farmers, large guilds, and retired people. Risk losing everything each month, most likely to the people that sold you the plot. level up a bunch of the same building, just to use all of your crafting/ processing skills.
So if you have housing to be a citizen of a node, and in node housing is limited, and now freeholds are limited AND you lose everything now after a siege, Hundreds if not thousands of players will be running around not caring about or contributing to nodes and trade skills.
The response to "you sold all those freehold cosmetic and now most people wont get to use them" was "we're working on allowing family members being able to use skins on your freehold"? "get fucked" would have been nicer. so its ok to lie lol stop defending this trash system
its wild that your ok with having a core mechanic of the game locked off to players so your willing to spit in the face of everyone cause you wanna feel special for a house wild so you basically only want guilds and rmt players to have the Controle of the housing market (that's what this will cause if you cant see that your blind) and you willing to tell players that want to be master crafters or do animal husbandry to fuck off your really ok with that your stupid if that's the case.
So, I understand your feelings are hurt, since your dream of living your farmville fantasy was crushed, so I will reply to all your insults with this question: How is EVE Online still going strong after 20 years? It's 10 times more hardcore than ashes ever will be, casual players get crushed, yet, still alive after 20 years, so... yea, maybe you should find a game that will make you happy Ashes ain't it
no ones feelings are hurt ill gladly get my money back and go play other better games the issue is that ppl like you think this is ok for a game that a MAJOR GAME MECHANIC revolves around is ok remember when steven said solo players are also going to have content welp guess they can fuck off to know according to you and all the white knights thinking this is ok
The problem is that many, many people are feeling lied to right now with this freehold system 'change'. It wasn't always sold this way, it wasn't described this way. Players made plans around it, guilds around it, bought into the game for it, and now it's gone. Ashes isn't for everyone, Eve is still alive. Neither of those things matter when it feels like a game breaking bait and switch. It's not casuals wanting to play Farmville, it's players wanting what they've been told would be there for multiple years now.
The people asking for refunds should absolutely get them if they want it, or at least the opportunity to be refunded after A2 if they still want one and these systems are tested. This 'change' in the game is a mistake at best, a lie most likely, and at worst a community disaster.
Here is a Steven quote from over a year ago saying that Freeholds would be a "MONUMENTAL ACHIEVEMENT" the same words he used to describe legendary items and flying mounts that are also Extremely limited and rare https://youtu.be/4sUTuUAgavE?t=4085
If you back a game for 375$ you should at least Know the nature of the game you are backing.
its wild that your ok with having a core mechanic of the game locked off to players so your willing to spit in the face of everyone cause you wanna feel special for a house wild so you basically only want guilds and rmt players to have the Controle of the housing market (that's what this will cause if you cant see that your blind) and you willing to tell players that want to be master crafters or do animal husbandry to fuck off your really ok with that your stupid if that's the case.
So, I understand your feelings are hurt, since your dream of living your farmville fantasy was crushed, so I will reply to all your insults with this question: How is EVE Online still going strong after 20 years? It's 10 times more hardcore than ashes ever will be, casual players get crushed, yet, still alive after 20 years, so... yea, maybe you should find a game that will make you happy Ashes ain't it
The problem is that many, many people are feeling lied to right now with this freehold system 'change'. It wasn't always sold this way, it wasn't described this way. Players made plans around it, guilds around it, bought into the game for it, and now it's gone. Ashes isn't for everyone, Eve is still alive. Neither of those things matter when it feels like a game breaking bait and switch. It's not casuals wanting to play Farmville, it's players wanting what they've been told would be there for multiple years now.
The people asking for refunds should absolutely get them if they want it, or at least the opportunity to be refunded after A2 if they still want one and these systems are tested. This 'change' in the game is a mistake at best, a lie most likely, and at worst a community disaster.
literally this lol i love seeing ppl ok with being lied too
The freehold system looks great. But to be honest, I completely lost interest when the freeholds were mentioned as being exclusive. Casual players that like completion will hate this fact. All the sweat-lords will own freeholds.
If you want sweat-lords to be your main bread and butter customer, then that's fine I guess, but you should probably work out a way so that casual / semi casual players can enjoy aspects/systems that you design, and not put them behind an exclusivity wall, that will be unachievable by the average player.
Example of a game that caters to sweats are PVP survival games. This mechanic will be destroyed by this sweat-lord player base, and there will be nothing you can do about it until the exclusivity thing is taken away.
I do like that in other MMO's the housing system is instanced, and the house with the most points is the one visible in the world. At least this way everyone can experience the systems / mechanics. Especially when there are advantages to having those systems in the players possession.
I do see what you are going for though, something that makes freeholds meaningful. The method to obtaining the freeholds need to be done in a away that it doesn't automatically go to the most sweaty players. Perhaps a lottery type system? Or upkeep that can ensure AFK freeholds are redistributed or something.
so again why the fuck are we now going back on that and giving us shit that we now have to bid for and fight off rmt
so in your mind you thought """working hard""" meant doing quests? getting gold or getting resources is literally the same thing when you can just buy whatever resources you need, RMT argument makes zero sense in a game with legendary UNIQUE gear and flying mounts for 0.1% drop rates
Castles, Flying Mounts, Legendary BiS gear, all of those are out of reach for 90% of the playerbase even tho they could eventually get it if they "work hard" same for freeholds
or is your Farmville fantasy more important than someone's fantasy of riding a dragon in AoC? because theres only 15 to 20 flying mounts that will 100% belong to large guilds, freeholds are in the few thousands range 🤣
a few thousand freehold slots with servers that have 50kplus players yup makes total fucken sense also your compareing a flying mount again to a CORE GAME MACHANIC THAT IF PLAYERS WANT TO ACHIVE MASTER OR GRANDMASTER CRAFTING THEY HAVE TO HAVE ONE LIKE THIS IS THE FUCKEN ISSUE. not everyone wants to be gatherers and this is going to cause alot of us to be just that cause we caint craft
I have a really good idea, and this is what will happen if something isnt put in place to prevent it.
A clan of players boost a node, and free up the freehold nodes.
This rich clan, then purchases all the nodes and upgrades them.
This clan puts them all up for sale at a profit
This rich clan then moves to a neighboring node.. Which gets boosted and attacks the original node, thus deleting the freeholds....
Rinse and repeat, unlimited cash. Uber Sweat lord Exploit.
I have a really good idea, and this is what will happen if something isnt put in place to prevent it.
A clan of players boost a node, and free up the freehold nodes.
This rich clan, then purchases all the nodes and upgrades them.
This clan puts them all up for sale at a profit
This rich clan then moves to a neighboring node.. Which gets boosted and attacks the original node, thus deleting the freeholds....
Rinse and repeat, unlimited cash. Uber Sweat lord Exploit.
Is there anything you’re concerned about regarding what was shown with the Freehold Preview?
Request the bidding be blind and lose all gold regardless of winning or losing. Money goes to the node. Guilds might balk at doing it more than necessary to secure what they need for their members.
If you really want to throw a wrench in. Have the amount of gold put in by the participants equal the chance of receiving the hold.
a few thousand freehold slots with servers that have 50kplus players yup makes total fucken sense also your compareing a flying mount again to a CORE GAME MACHANIC THAT IF PLAYERS WANT TO ACHIVE MASTER OR GRANDMASTER CRAFTING THEY HAVE TO HAVE ONE LIKE THIS IS THE FUCKEN ISSUE.
I'd like to use this desperate comment as feedback, for intrepid to see how GOOD the showcase actually was 😅
people are losing their minds because of how bad they want to play and experience the freehold system lol even tho some may be saying they won't play the game because this and that, literally no one is losing their shit giving feedback about a game and not be there day 1 to play, games that people don't care about and won't play you don't even see them engaging in forum discussions
so congratulations to the art, sound, design team and everyone that put together the systems showcased today
akabearMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
How do you feel about the size-and-shape inventory management system?
- size is about right
- shape of various items nice idea
- number of slots felt very low, even for startup
- manual arrangement is ok but also would like to see means to Auto-sort(arrange) by value, name or type
How do you feel about the systems shown thus far for planting crops on your Freehold?
- looked good
- perhaps a little slowed down transition from the action task and back again so there is less of an abrupt change
-
Does anything in particular concern or excite you regarding this?
- I guess with many players wanting a freehold and perhaps a limited amount, I wonder if there could be clan based freeholds as well at a higher tier or some equivalent OR
- wonder if the New World approach might work where the visible freehold is the most prestigious.
- wonder if your crops will be safe from 3rd party harvesting.
How do you feel about raising livestock and collecting resources from them?
- looks great
- would like to see the livestock move within their zone and perhaps even react to the player in some way
Does anything in particular concern or excite you regarding this?
- same as crops, wonder if they can be gathered by anyone
What kind of customization do you want with your Freehold, or buildings on your Freehold?
- would be good to be able to do create your own paths, hard / soft scape and general plants/objects and artifacts.
- definitely do not want to see grided /square perimeters to overall freehold the in open terrain areas as this would look incongruous to have a 1/4 acre block.. rather a variety of overall footprints..
- - also do not want to see just on flat land.
- for freeholds within cities (if that is a thing) gridded would be fine.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited about regarding what was shown with the Freehold Preview?
- coming along well
Is there anything in particular you’re concerned about regarding what was shown with the Freehold Preview?
- a freehold`s utility and value may come from its proximity to both the nearby node and nearby resources/ points of interest which to me means the visual characteristics of the freehold could make or break an areas theme if user has full control
- suggest theme-based freeholds have some limitations ie each type associated with a particular node them.
The problem is that many, many people are feeling lied to right now with this freehold system 'change'. It wasn't always sold this way, it wasn't described this way. Players made plans around it, guilds around it, bought into the game for it, and now it's gone. Ashes isn't for everyone, Eve is still alive. Neither of those things matter when it feels like a game breaking bait and switch. It's not casuals wanting to play Farmville, it's players wanting what they've been told would be there for multiple years now.
The people asking for refunds should absolutely get them if they want it, or at least the opportunity to be refunded after A2 if they still want one and these systems are tested. This 'change' in the game is a mistake at best, a lie most likely, and at worst a community disaster.
Here is a Steven quote from over a year ago saying that Freeholds would be a "MONUMENTAL ACHIEVEMENT" the same words he used to describe legendary items and flying mounts that are also Extremely limited and rare https://youtu.be/4sUTuUAgavE?t=4085
If you back a game for 375$ you should at least Know the nature of the game you are backing.
There is a difference something being a monumental task vs something being bid for. Monumental every player has a possibility of achieving it at some point in their game life since at some point a plot will open due to Node sieges occurring, but when you add in bidding you automatically remove that possibility because EVERY competitive guild (NOT INDIVIDUAL) will monopolize these Freeholds because the profit will be from selling them to players not actually utilizing them for processing. If you think bidding for a Freehold is monumental, well sir you are delusional. Gold and bidding is the laziest way to have something be meaningful and the easiest way to ruin your player economy when guilds begin to take over every single Freehold after enough time has passed.
Lets say you have a group of 8 friends YOU trust (which is already a stretch) and you all decide to pool your money together to bid for a Freehold, you all bid for this Freehold for 8,000 gold. Ok great, you now have a bid of 8000, but then here comes streamer3000 with his load of followers with 80k gold to bid or a guild that chooses to have all their minions funnel their gold to their guildleaders/officers and if you don't like it, you get a big kick out of the guild. Do you see the problem here? This is how it will turn out for the majority of the population. It's not going to be a MONUMENTAL TASK by 1 individual or a small group of friends to achieve but much more simple, it will be a task that mostly top ranks of guilds and/or streamers will be able to monopolize. They will be able to OUT BID any 1 person or group, UNLESS you conform and join them to HAVE A CHANCE at getting your plot. Solo player? Get fucked. Group of friends? Get fucked. Oh you decided to join a guild but aren't high ranking in said guild? Get fucked. You helped a streamer achieve their goal and think they give a shit about you? Get fucked. Oh and if you managed by the will of god to get a Freehold all the way in the bottom of fuck land? Well now your node just got sieged and you lost it, so get fucked. This is a recipe for disaster and having BIDDING as the only means of obtaining a Freehold is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Keep in mind I never said I have a problem with it being limited. I have a problem with the means to obtain it being impossible for the average individual player, even with enough time investment into the game. They said no P2W but this is the easiest way to make your game P2W.
I think most guilds will own freeholds but I don't think it will be to rmt or sell the freeholds. I think the guilds will built resource and crafting hubs which will be beacons in sieges. An unofficial guild Hall with perks. I still hate the idea but I can see where the devs are coming from.
Still won't partake though. I might cut some wheat or something when my guild owns some of these freeholds though.
0
Options
truenoirMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
How do you feel about the size-and-shape inventory management system?
I personally play the hell out of games like path of exile where you do have limitations of what fits in the bag and I do like the idea of having bags that can be crafted through tailoring similar to WoW that had where if you had the right materials you could craft a larger bag. We didn't really see much outside of you equipping extra bags so what other limitations are there because I'm sure aside for what fits in the inventory do items stack? And how high do they stack. It might not be bad in terms of player holding that items don't stack but I didn't see items stacking in the chest which means that the chest is also limited to what fits in the chest window. The issues I see with that would be when your doing your farming and collecting a lot of the same items you'll quickly run out of space if those items don't stack. It might make it annoying for the crafting and working if you need 4 bags to carry enough food materials to make 1 or 2 food items and then those don't stack either. But its possible that there's systems already planned and more details that we missed from the video.
How do you feel about the systems shown thus far for planting crops on your Freehold? I think the animation looks pretty good for the gathering aspect it would have been interesting to see more of the growth overtime of starting with seeds and them turning from seedlings into full plants. And the comment was made about keeping the plants up and not harvesting the whole plant seeing the corn just get removed after picking I would have liked to see just harvesting the corn but leaving the husks up for another growth period. Also when you gather plants it would be smart to also have a chance to get a seed of that plant it doesn't have to be 100% for everything gathered but it would give a bit of that immersion.
Does anything in particular concern or excite you regarding this? I'm hoping that we get to see more plants and things added it would be interesting to have a rare chance that lets us gather seeds from rare plants that herbalism hunts for in the world but potentially can be difficult to grow or hard to find.
How do you feel about raising livestock and collecting resources from them? When I saw the pig get slaughtered I was expecting more or less it going from a pig into bones and then that the bones could also be harvested but my mind was thinking bone tools for crafting or costume like bone helmet or Also tools made of bone as a resource.
Does anything in particular concern or excite you regarding this? It will be interesting having the ability to bread animals for the different aspects of it. Somehow it reminded me of final fantasy 7's chocobo racing which had breeding and all.
What kind of customization do you want with your Freehold, or buildings on your Freehold? I'm hoping that we get some kind of like building planner that lets us play around with how we want things positioned cause you spoke about space being an issue and not everything fitting into a freehold so it be nice to have some kind of planner mode so we can make the most out of it. I also remember that ashes didn't have plans to allow users to make music in the game but for freehold if I thought about what i'd love to see is it be really amazing to have like piano and other instruments which could play music using (MML)Music Macro Language. I know its asking for a lot but that would really add immersion and being able to play music in your tavern for the people just adds to the dynamic of the experience.
Bidding is fine for me, i have no issues with it as long as its done well. There should be a capped limit on amount that can be set on bids with ample time to give people that want to have a freehold, a chance to bid as well. I'd like a system personally where people can't just out bid you last second, allowing you able to automatically increase your bidding if someone outbids your current value.
I do understand casuals want everything without risk, will want things instanced or a way that they can easily get it else they will complain. The understanding of them being limited is hard for some casuals to swallow. Since there is an idea of selling blueprints already, perhaps allowing people to use their cosmetics to sell as blueprints for others so they can have some use of it. Just an idea though its not something I'm worried about even if I by chance didn't get to use mine.
I feel this is something people would have a better understanding over the course of the game. People have strong attachments to everything and don't want to lose anything. Once people play the game I feel it won't be as big a deal.
With the gathering inventory I feel that is a great idea, I can see a lot of ways you can take it to customize peoples gathering experiences. Allowing them to focus on certain materials at the cost of others and add importance to what is held. All while making it clear what you will lose and won't lose in pvp for the player.
Looking forward to seeing more, was a great presentation and great seeing the work and progress again.
I think the matter doesn't relate to hardcore or casual to be honest. I think its consumer vs sales. Realistically, all of my homely skins wouldn't be used anyway. I think the freeholds will now be commerce and craft centres. I do not like the change from metros to freeholds for the top crafting positions. If anything, freeholds and metros should be equal in terms of crafting abilities enabled.
One person spends money on cars, another on houses, another on holidays. Its not about what you earn but what you spend your money on. Freeholds are just another area in which I wont have to invest unless instructed to by my guild. I was a gatherer originally and also a hardcore gamer. I'm still a gatherer and a hard core gamer. Nothing is stopping the crafting guilds from clubbing together for a freehold. I personally wanted to curb the gold sinks and I believe I still can
so again why the fuck are we now going back on that and giving us shit that we now have to bid for and fight off rmt
so in your mind you thought """working hard""" meant doing quests? getting gold or getting resources is literally the same thing when you can just buy whatever resources you need, RMT argument makes zero sense in a game with legendary UNIQUE gear and flying mounts for 0.1% drop rates
Castles, Flying Mounts, Legendary BiS gear, all of those are out of reach for 90% of the playerbase even tho they could eventually get it if they "work hard" same for freeholds
or is your Farmville fantasy more important than someone's fantasy of riding a dragon in AoC? because theres only 15 to 20 flying mounts that will 100% belong to large guilds, freeholds are in the few thousands range 🤣
a few thousand freehold slots with servers that have 50kplus players yup makes total fucken sense also your compareing a flying mount again to a CORE GAME MACHANIC THAT IF PLAYERS WANT TO ACHIVE MASTER OR GRANDMASTER CRAFTING THEY HAVE TO HAVE ONE LIKE THIS IS THE FUCKEN ISSUE. not everyone wants to be gatherers and this is going to cause alot of us to be just that cause we caint craft
What is stopping you from being a top tier crafter in the game? You can't craft the best items on a freehold.
You can't master everything either, either way if you are trying to be a top tier crafter you are using and playing the market....
I think the matter doesn't relate to hardcore or casual to be honest. I think its consumer vs sales. Realistically, all of my homely skins wouldn't be used anyway. I think the freeholds will now be commerce and craft centres. I do not like the change from metros to freeholds for the top crafting positions. If anything, freeholds and metros should be equal in terms of crafting abilities enabled.
One person spends money on cars, another on houses, another on holidays. Its not about what you earn but what you spend your money on. Freeholds are just another area in which I wont have to invest unless instructed to by my guild. I was a gatherer originally and also a hardcore gamer. I'm still a gatherer and a hard core gamer. Nothing is stopping the crafting guilds from clubbing together for a freehold. I personally wanted to curb the gold sinks and I believe I still can
I feel getting a freehold should be a rare drop item as well tbh. Not in legendary rare status but excitement when you get one. With it being bind on pickup and only lasting for a certain amount of days.
It will allow more people to have chances to get it, than it just being people that made a lot of money and bidding on them quickly. Caps to control things and limit demand can help.
That being said though she showed a lot, there is a lot we still don't know. but I feel we have enough information and showing the progression on it to be good for alpha 2 and the surprises that come with it imo.
so again why the fuck are we now going back on that and giving us shit that we now have to bid for and fight off rmt
so in your mind you thought """working hard""" meant doing quests? getting gold or getting resources is literally the same thing when you can just buy whatever resources you need, RMT argument makes zero sense in a game with legendary UNIQUE gear and flying mounts for 0.1% drop rates
Castles, Flying Mounts, Legendary BiS gear, all of those are out of reach for 90% of the playerbase even tho they could eventually get it if they "work hard" same for freeholds
or is your Farmville fantasy more important than someone's fantasy of riding a dragon in AoC? because theres only 15 to 20 flying mounts that will 100% belong to large guilds, freeholds are in the few thousands range 🤣
a few thousand freehold slots with servers that have 50kplus players yup makes total fucken sense also your compareing a flying mount again to a CORE GAME MACHANIC THAT IF PLAYERS WANT TO ACHIVE MASTER OR GRANDMASTER CRAFTING THEY HAVE TO HAVE ONE LIKE THIS IS THE FUCKEN ISSUE. not everyone wants to be gatherers and this is going to cause alot of us to be just that cause we caint craft
What is stopping you from being a top tier crafter in the game? You can't craft the best items on a freehold.
You can't master everything either, either way if you are trying to be a top tier crafter you are using and playing the market....
so again why the fuck are we now going back on that and giving us shit that we now have to bid for and fight off rmt
so in your mind you thought """working hard""" meant doing quests? getting gold or getting resources is literally the same thing when you can just buy whatever resources you need, RMT argument makes zero sense in a game with legendary UNIQUE gear and flying mounts for 0.1% drop rates
Castles, Flying Mounts, Legendary BiS gear, all of those are out of reach for 90% of the playerbase even tho they could eventually get it if they "work hard" same for freeholds
or is your Farmville fantasy more important than someone's fantasy of riding a dragon in AoC? because theres only 15 to 20 flying mounts that will 100% belong to large guilds, freeholds are in the few thousands range 🤣
a few thousand freehold slots with servers that have 50kplus players yup makes total fucken sense also your compareing a flying mount again to a CORE GAME MACHANIC THAT IF PLAYERS WANT TO ACHIVE MASTER OR GRANDMASTER CRAFTING THEY HAVE TO HAVE ONE LIKE THIS IS THE FUCKEN ISSUE. not everyone wants to be gatherers and this is going to cause alot of us to be just that cause we caint craft
What is stopping you from being a top tier crafter in the game? You can't craft the best items on a freehold.
You can't master everything either, either way if you are trying to be a top tier crafter you are using and playing the market....
what the best and grand items are from the top tire systems on a freehold huh do you not read the wicki or any informative YouTube content its not the point of being able to do everything
Did you not even watch the live stream, or did you hear one thing and than complained without watching the full dev stream?
I want to start my feedback by reminding Intrepid about the "vocal minority" especially when we have streamers that are sending their viewers to give biased negative feedback due to their own discontent with the project for other reasons.
With that said, I am very happy with the nature of the changes that we had. In most MMOs, housing is irrelevant, it's just something you can buy and customize for RP reasons or getting minor benefits. What AoC is doing with Multiple types of housing is amazing. Giving casual players and less dedicated players a chance to own housing within nodes, while also having an option for the most dedicated playerbase with freeholds, making them highly valuable and exclusive, this is is Good.
It was very reassuring to see intrepid sticking to their core philosophies that many players forget, that "not everyone will be a winner" and there is Different content for different players, Everyone will get housing - everyone will get mounts, everyone will get gear - but not everyone will get flying mounts, legendary gear or freeholds due to their limited and rare nature and that is amazing. Do Not Change this.
Making these epic achievements is a core part of making meaningful accomplishments in an MMO, if everyone has a freehold, a legendary item, a flying mount it means nothing. Ashes isn't a game about having your happy safe FarmVille, it's a PvX MMORPG with risk vs reward and meaningful content that should not try to cater for the masses - we already have MANY, MANY MMOs that are and will continue to do that - we Need something different.
I respect your opinion but i also disagree. Everyone is totally free to have their own opinions, but i did want to point out for those who might not know, you are the leader of a massive guild who will probably never have to worry about getting a freehold. So it feels like you wont be as effected by these changes as most people who aren't the top of massive organizations lol.
To be fair to you, i am also bias because i am usually a solo player or play with small groups. So of course i would want it to be easier to get them haha
Comments
My concern - the bidding, buying/selling of freeholds, limited amount of them. I'm fine with those things in and of themselves.
Let me just take a step back real quick. Games with open world pvp don't die because of open world pvp, as many carebears will falsely tell you. They die because of RMT, cheating, power gaps being way too big, the snowball effect of rich and powerful guilds getting infinitely more rich and powerful, and unrestricted, rampant, full loot drop ganking.
Material to this conversation - RMT/cheating, power gaps and the snowball effect. These are the issues I can see potentially popping up with this freehold system overhaul. I don't know that for sure though. The freehold system is far too complex, and Ashes itself with all of it's systems is too complex to know how exactly this all pans out.
I'm fully on board with "not everyone's a winner," risk vs reward, "it takes time and effort to achieve things." Love all of those concepts. And I'm a pvper. Tend to get moderately rich in mmos too. And I join top tier guilds. These are just qualifiers for my point, coming from an mmo power gamer.
My point, what I'm trying to say is, just be careful. Don't make the game TOO top heavy. Don't make the same mistakes that previous mmos with pvp and competition over resources did. You have to keep the game at a certain threshold of competitiveness or people just give up.
It seems to me that freeholds have shifted into being primarly attainable only by power gamers. Hard to say that for sure at this point, but that's how it seems. And I'm fine with that to an extent. But be careful. And balance it. Don't leave everyone who can't get a freehold in the dust. The system shouldn't create a huge windfall of profit/power for power gamers who were already strong in the first place. Balance it by making other activities in the game reasonably competitive with how lucrative owning a freehold is.
With that said, I am very happy with the nature of the changes that we had. In most MMOs, housing is irrelevant, it's just something you can buy and customize for RP reasons or getting minor benefits. What AoC is doing with Multiple types of housing is amazing. Giving casual players and less dedicated players a chance to own housing within nodes, while also having an option for the most dedicated playerbase with freeholds, making them highly valuable and exclusive, this is is Good.
It was very reassuring to see intrepid sticking to their core philosophies that many players forget, that "not everyone will be a winner" and there is Different content for different players, Everyone will get housing - everyone will get mounts, everyone will get gear - but not everyone will get flying mounts, legendary gear or freeholds due to their limited and rare nature and that is amazing. Do Not Change this.
Making these epic achievements is a core part of making meaningful accomplishments in an MMO, if everyone has a freehold, a legendary item, a flying mount it means nothing. Ashes isn't a game about having your happy safe FarmVille, it's a PvX MMORPG with risk vs reward and meaningful content that should not try to cater for the masses - we already have MANY, MANY MMOs that are and will continue to do that - we Need something different.
its wild that your ok with having a core mechanic of the game locked off to players so your willing to spit in the face of everyone cause you wanna feel special for a house wild so you basically only want guilds and rmt players to have the Controle of the housing market (that's what this will cause if you cant see that your blind) and you willing to tell players that want to be master crafters or do animal husbandry to fuck off your really ok with that your stupid if that's the case.
Steven said the in-node house numbers have changed during his text based answer session tonight.
We have to wait and see
-> Seems fine. Inventory isn't a big deal for me.
How do you feel about the systems shown thus far for planting crops on your Freehold? Does anything in particular concern or excite you regarding this?
-> Are the plants single plant or big group plantings?
How do you feel about raising livestock and collecting resources from them? Does anything in particular concern or excite you regarding this?
-> The animals look good, I like the pen style as opposed to Archeage 'lines of cows'.
What kind of customization do you want with your Freehold, or buildings on your Freehold?
-> If the grounds on the freehold are not pvp safe, perhaps adding some walls or physical barriers? You have to have some safe areas even in a big pvp game like this. You can't keep people in gank stress 24/7, they'll quit.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited about regarding what was shown with the Freehold Preview?
-> Honestly, the freeholds look great. I love all the content shown, it's all very exciting to see and play with. It's a bit confusing if it's family content or guild content due to the amounts of resources required.
Is there anything in particular you’re concerned about regarding what was shown with the Freehold Preview?
-> A lot. A whole lot. Using what is now a very limited resource (Freeholds) for endgame processing, therefore gating endgame gear, solely in the hands of players who will do their best to manipulate and control said system system is a truly awful idea. It will lead to hard content lockouts. Small guilds and players with a handful of friends will already be prevented from running dungeons, bosses, severe risk on the ocean, and now can't obtain land reasonably. I played a lot of Archeage. The systems inspired by Archeage I largely like, but this... this is a serious issue.
As time goes on it feels like Ashes becomes more and more hardcore, more forcing players into bigger guilds to even be able to play it at all. I'm all for needing other players to craft and work together for content. I can't stand how easy MMO's have become and how other players are no better than NPC's. That said, mega guilds will exist and they will try to control every server in the game. It won't be hard. We saw it with player nations, it will happen here. They will pool money to control real estate on members and hog plots.
Limiting plots like this and having them so innately tied to economy and profession progression is a truly awful idea that has been done before. We've seen it in Archeage, FFXIV, and in both cases the open world housing systems were horribly restrictive of a large part of the game. It was even more egregious in Archeage since land = resources = money. Without land you had no money and couldn't craft, basically. Yes there are sieges and the ability to buy plots.
Buying and bidding on plots WILL result in rampant RMT just like it has in the two games mentioned above. Limiting freeholds to one account isn't enough. XIV players have the same restriction and still know every in and out of their system to avoid those locks and still sell FC houses over discord, timers and all that.
This is something that remains to be seen in testing, and it will vary by server, but the biggest concern is quite simply... not ever being able to experience this content due to it being player controlled. If someone needs a freehold to make the most money, then they can't buy a freehold because the prices of those plots will be based on the high end of the 'freehold based' economy. So not being able to make enough money to buy a freehold if you miss the first rush, means being unable to advance crafting or really do many professions, severely limiting players without access to a freehold in their ability to keep up in the game.
Freehold = resources = money = gear. Are these players without freeholds going to genuinely stand a chance in the economy and pvp nature of the game, or will they primarily stay under the heel of 'mega guilds' who control huge parts of the system?
This is the question of a player freedom system potentially being a bit too anti player. I know Ashes is a niche game, but if it's not fun, if it's too difficult, if it turns into XIV housing with almost everyone being locked out of ever experiencing the content due to manipulations, multi accounts, player control and limited spots... well. We've seen how well that's worked out. Not well. I don't know what the answer is here, but if I had to pick a single thing to say is a really bad idea, it's the sale of freeholds by players for gold.
Make it some sort of in-game system to sell and buy plots that players can't profit from or freeholds will be RMT fodder 100%.
Even if you make it so that plots have a set price, players will still find ways to RMT by relinquishing the plot and letting someone else buy it (XIV), but it's still better than in-game bidding for in-game rewards that will turn it into a huge money and gear boosting exchange system.
I'm gonna edit this again and say... you can be ganked while processing and have your hard earned materials stolen, are you serious? You must have stress breaks in this game. If you're under gank threat literally 24/7 even at your home, that's too much. Bandits will just camp freeholds. Keep the freehold grounds pvp safe, this is getting ridiculous. The entire rest of the game is a pvp playground, give people something they can relax on for crying out loud.
I'm seeing some posts mention that if a freehold is destroyed, the whole thing is gone now with nothing mailed back or returned as a template? I can't find a source for this, but on the off chance there's any truth to it... if that's real, this system is dead on arrival. Who is going to put in so much work and get literally nothing back only to do it completely over? That's about as anti fun as it gets. That'd be insane... if it's true. Another thing only the biggest guilds will control.
The lottery system, let's call it what it is, it's a house lottery. FFXIV has this. The previous system it had encouraged botters to constantly ping a housing placard until they won it. Nobody, not even those with houses currently, like or enjoy either system, so why would you purposefully choose a system, from a game where it's own community doesn't like that system, and think "Hmm oh yes. This is quite what we need mmm yess"? Was there no research done at all for this? All it takes is one google.
You're purposefully locking a system behind freeholds, freeholds that will not be more than 5k population wise...and you know damn good and well that people will buy them up and not use them for processing. The other situation; zerg guilds will just gobble up everything, and let's be honest with ourselves here, that -IS- what will happen. Zerg guilds ruin games when they are allowed to do so and you are fully enabling them to do so here. Congrats zergs can make the best processing stuff, you know they won't share with anyone else, no guild in their right mind would give up that privilege without a tax or something.
Making the BEST part of a system be tied to something that is has such a minuscule (5k) amount compared to the overall wanted pop of the servers (50k) themselves is not only bad design, but self sabotaging the game and it's economy in a way that it will not recover. You know as well as I do that people aren't looking at freeholds to use for processing anymore, no you moved that goal post by making them hella limited so now it's a full on ground breaking achievement, that people will only want them for that alone. You think they're gonna let randoms use their stuff? I know that -you- know that won't happen like you want us to think it will from experience, even less now with all the crafters you drove off with this.
On top of this, when I want to take a break and relax in game where the hell am I supposed to go now? Narnia? I can't go into my damn yard and farm because the Turdburglers have been staking my place out for the past week and they want blood. So you want me to what? Balance Teacups? Fake nap in the closet? The point being, it's full on dumb that they're just going to be able to come onto my land, slap me around like a trouser snake, and then leave. Why even have this be a thing?
You keep saying that "Ashes isn't for everyone and that's ok". But the question that needs to be asked at this point is, "who is it for?", as eventually even those that thought it was for them, it turns out it wasn't.
Look, the direction this game has taken, it's asinine design choices in several areas, people's inability to know what is and isn't in the game anymore, marketing for skins that people are NOT going to be able to use now - this is really my final straw with this thing. If you wanna keep on keepin on, then fine by me, but myself and many others want off. Either make it right and fix this asininity or cut us loose and refund us.
The problem is that many, many people are feeling lied to right now with this freehold system 'change'. It wasn't always sold this way, it wasn't described this way. Players made plans around it, guilds around it, bought into the game for it, and now it's gone. Ashes isn't for everyone, Eve is still alive. Neither of those things matter when it feels like a game breaking bait and switch. It's not casuals wanting to play Farmville, it's players wanting what they've been told would be there for multiple years now.
The people asking for refunds should absolutely get them if they want it, or at least the opportunity to be refunded after A2 if they still want one and these systems are tested. This 'change' in the game is a mistake at best, a lie most likely, and at worst a community disaster.
The changes to the free hold system are the worst decision Intrepid has made to date.
After five years of sales you change from "everyone can get a freehold, it just may not be where you want it" to "anyone can get a freehold, it's just a monumental achievement to get one" And now were at "owning a
Freehold is a privilege not a right. Limited number of plots and those plots can be sold... AND you have to bid on them."
The stance was always that they could not be sold and now we have selling and bidding. RMT will be impossible to stop now. You may catch people who do it, but what's losing a 15 dollar sub when someone can make a few hundred just selling one freehold plot.
For the last five years the only information we had on losing a freehold was that "all your stuff would be packed up and sent to do if your freehold gets attacked after a siege, excluding materials. but like furniture and blueprints and all that will show up in your mail or something" Now its "you lose everything, start all over"
After Five years of "the best crafting and processing stations will in metros" Now we have "the best stations are located ONLY on freeholds, Also you need a leveled crafting/processing station for EACH.
So to be a master at a trade skill, you have to be one of the limited number of people able to buy a freehold plot from farmers, large guilds, and retired people. Risk losing everything each month, most likely to the people that sold you the plot. level up a bunch of the same building, just to use all of your crafting/ processing skills.
So if you have housing to be a citizen of a node, and in node housing is limited, and now freeholds are limited AND you lose everything now after a siege, Hundreds if not thousands of players will be running around not caring about or contributing to nodes and trade skills.
The response to "you sold all those freehold cosmetic and now most people wont get to use them" was "we're working on allowing family members being able to use skins on your freehold"? "get fucked" would have been nicer. so its ok to lie lol stop defending this trash system
no ones feelings are hurt ill gladly get my money back and go play other better games the issue is that ppl like you think this is ok for a game that a MAJOR GAME MECHANIC revolves around is ok remember when steven said solo players are also going to have content welp guess they can fuck off to know according to you and all the white knights thinking this is ok
Here is a Steven quote from over a year ago saying that Freeholds would be a "MONUMENTAL ACHIEVEMENT" the same words he used to describe legendary items and flying mounts that are also Extremely limited and rare
If you back a game for 375$ you should at least Know the nature of the game you are backing.
literally this lol i love seeing ppl ok with being lied too
If you want sweat-lords to be your main bread and butter customer, then that's fine I guess, but you should probably work out a way so that casual / semi casual players can enjoy aspects/systems that you design, and not put them behind an exclusivity wall, that will be unachievable by the average player.
Example of a game that caters to sweats are PVP survival games. This mechanic will be destroyed by this sweat-lord player base, and there will be nothing you can do about it until the exclusivity thing is taken away.
I do like that in other MMO's the housing system is instanced, and the house with the most points is the one visible in the world. At least this way everyone can experience the systems / mechanics. Especially when there are advantages to having those systems in the players possession.
I do see what you are going for though, something that makes freeholds meaningful. The method to obtaining the freeholds need to be done in a away that it doesn't automatically go to the most sweaty players. Perhaps a lottery type system? Or upkeep that can ensure AFK freeholds are redistributed or something.
Awesome! Take care my friend and enjoy!
2) I like that freeholds are limited and specialized
3) I like the tetris bag idea
a few thousand freehold slots with servers that have 50kplus players yup makes total fucken sense also your compareing a flying mount again to a CORE GAME MACHANIC THAT IF PLAYERS WANT TO ACHIVE MASTER OR GRANDMASTER CRAFTING THEY HAVE TO HAVE ONE LIKE THIS IS THE FUCKEN ISSUE. not everyone wants to be gatherers and this is going to cause alot of us to be just that cause we caint craft
A clan of players boost a node, and free up the freehold nodes.
This rich clan, then purchases all the nodes and upgrades them.
This clan puts them all up for sale at a profit
This rich clan then moves to a neighboring node.. Which gets boosted and attacks the original node, thus deleting the freeholds....
Rinse and repeat, unlimited cash. Uber Sweat lord Exploit.
shocker lol
Request the bidding be blind and lose all gold regardless of winning or losing. Money goes to the node. Guilds might balk at doing it more than necessary to secure what they need for their members.
If you really want to throw a wrench in. Have the amount of gold put in by the participants equal the chance of receiving the hold.
I'd like to use this desperate comment as feedback, for intrepid to see how GOOD the showcase actually was 😅
people are losing their minds because of how bad they want to play and experience the freehold system lol even tho some may be saying they won't play the game because this and that, literally no one is losing their shit giving feedback about a game and not be there day 1 to play, games that people don't care about and won't play you don't even see them engaging in forum discussions
so congratulations to the art, sound, design team and everyone that put together the systems showcased today
can't wait to get to testing!
- size is about right
- shape of various items nice idea
- number of slots felt very low, even for startup
- manual arrangement is ok but also would like to see means to Auto-sort(arrange) by value, name or type
How do you feel about the systems shown thus far for planting crops on your Freehold?
- looked good
- perhaps a little slowed down transition from the action task and back again so there is less of an abrupt change
-
Does anything in particular concern or excite you regarding this?
- I guess with many players wanting a freehold and perhaps a limited amount, I wonder if there could be clan based freeholds as well at a higher tier or some equivalent OR
- wonder if the New World approach might work where the visible freehold is the most prestigious.
- wonder if your crops will be safe from 3rd party harvesting.
How do you feel about raising livestock and collecting resources from them?
- looks great
- would like to see the livestock move within their zone and perhaps even react to the player in some way
Does anything in particular concern or excite you regarding this?
- same as crops, wonder if they can be gathered by anyone
What kind of customization do you want with your Freehold, or buildings on your Freehold?
- would be good to be able to do create your own paths, hard / soft scape and general plants/objects and artifacts.
- definitely do not want to see grided /square perimeters to overall freehold the in open terrain areas as this would look incongruous to have a 1/4 acre block.. rather a variety of overall footprints..
- - also do not want to see just on flat land.
- for freeholds within cities (if that is a thing) gridded would be fine.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited about regarding what was shown with the Freehold Preview?
- coming along well
Is there anything in particular you’re concerned about regarding what was shown with the Freehold Preview?
- a freehold`s utility and value may come from its proximity to both the nearby node and nearby resources/ points of interest which to me means the visual characteristics of the freehold could make or break an areas theme if user has full control
- suggest theme-based freeholds have some limitations ie each type associated with a particular node them.
There is a difference something being a monumental task vs something being bid for. Monumental every player has a possibility of achieving it at some point in their game life since at some point a plot will open due to Node sieges occurring, but when you add in bidding you automatically remove that possibility because EVERY competitive guild (NOT INDIVIDUAL) will monopolize these Freeholds because the profit will be from selling them to players not actually utilizing them for processing. If you think bidding for a Freehold is monumental, well sir you are delusional. Gold and bidding is the laziest way to have something be meaningful and the easiest way to ruin your player economy when guilds begin to take over every single Freehold after enough time has passed.
Lets say you have a group of 8 friends YOU trust (which is already a stretch) and you all decide to pool your money together to bid for a Freehold, you all bid for this Freehold for 8,000 gold. Ok great, you now have a bid of 8000, but then here comes streamer3000 with his load of followers with 80k gold to bid or a guild that chooses to have all their minions funnel their gold to their guildleaders/officers and if you don't like it, you get a big kick out of the guild. Do you see the problem here? This is how it will turn out for the majority of the population. It's not going to be a MONUMENTAL TASK by 1 individual or a small group of friends to achieve but much more simple, it will be a task that mostly top ranks of guilds and/or streamers will be able to monopolize. They will be able to OUT BID any 1 person or group, UNLESS you conform and join them to HAVE A CHANCE at getting your plot. Solo player? Get fucked. Group of friends? Get fucked. Oh you decided to join a guild but aren't high ranking in said guild? Get fucked. You helped a streamer achieve their goal and think they give a shit about you? Get fucked. Oh and if you managed by the will of god to get a Freehold all the way in the bottom of fuck land? Well now your node just got sieged and you lost it, so get fucked. This is a recipe for disaster and having BIDDING as the only means of obtaining a Freehold is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Keep in mind I never said I have a problem with it being limited. I have a problem with the means to obtain it being impossible for the average individual player, even with enough time investment into the game. They said no P2W but this is the easiest way to make your game P2W.
Still won't partake though. I might cut some wheat or something when my guild owns some of these freeholds though.
I personally play the hell out of games like path of exile where you do have limitations of what fits in the bag and I do like the idea of having bags that can be crafted through tailoring similar to WoW that had where if you had the right materials you could craft a larger bag. We didn't really see much outside of you equipping extra bags so what other limitations are there because I'm sure aside for what fits in the inventory do items stack? And how high do they stack. It might not be bad in terms of player holding that items don't stack but I didn't see items stacking in the chest which means that the chest is also limited to what fits in the chest window. The issues I see with that would be when your doing your farming and collecting a lot of the same items you'll quickly run out of space if those items don't stack. It might make it annoying for the crafting and working if you need 4 bags to carry enough food materials to make 1 or 2 food items and then those don't stack either. But its possible that there's systems already planned and more details that we missed from the video.
How do you feel about the systems shown thus far for planting crops on your Freehold? I think the animation looks pretty good for the gathering aspect it would have been interesting to see more of the growth overtime of starting with seeds and them turning from seedlings into full plants. And the comment was made about keeping the plants up and not harvesting the whole plant seeing the corn just get removed after picking I would have liked to see just harvesting the corn but leaving the husks up for another growth period. Also when you gather plants it would be smart to also have a chance to get a seed of that plant it doesn't have to be 100% for everything gathered but it would give a bit of that immersion.
Does anything in particular concern or excite you regarding this? I'm hoping that we get to see more plants and things added it would be interesting to have a rare chance that lets us gather seeds from rare plants that herbalism hunts for in the world but potentially can be difficult to grow or hard to find.
How do you feel about raising livestock and collecting resources from them? When I saw the pig get slaughtered I was expecting more or less it going from a pig into bones and then that the bones could also be harvested but my mind was thinking bone tools for crafting or costume like bone helmet or
Does anything in particular concern or excite you regarding this? It will be interesting having the ability to bread animals for the different aspects of it. Somehow it reminded me of final fantasy 7's chocobo racing which had breeding and all.
What kind of customization do you want with your Freehold, or buildings on your Freehold? I'm hoping that we get some kind of like building planner that lets us play around with how we want things positioned cause you spoke about space being an issue and not everything fitting into a freehold so it be nice to have some kind of planner mode so we can make the most out of it. I also remember that ashes didn't have plans to allow users to make music in the game but for freehold if I thought about what i'd love to see is it be really amazing to have like piano and other instruments which could play music using (MML)Music Macro Language. I know its asking for a lot but that would really add immersion and being able to play music in your tavern for the people just adds to the dynamic of the experience.
College Lessons
I do understand casuals want everything without risk, will want things instanced or a way that they can easily get it else they will complain. The understanding of them being limited is hard for some casuals to swallow. Since there is an idea of selling blueprints already, perhaps allowing people to use their cosmetics to sell as blueprints for others so they can have some use of it. Just an idea though its not something I'm worried about even if I by chance didn't get to use mine.
I feel this is something people would have a better understanding over the course of the game. People have strong attachments to everything and don't want to lose anything. Once people play the game I feel it won't be as big a deal.
With the gathering inventory I feel that is a great idea, I can see a lot of ways you can take it to customize peoples gathering experiences. Allowing them to focus on certain materials at the cost of others and add importance to what is held. All while making it clear what you will lose and won't lose in pvp for the player.
Looking forward to seeing more, was a great presentation and great seeing the work and progress again.
One person spends money on cars, another on houses, another on holidays. Its not about what you earn but what you spend your money on. Freeholds are just another area in which I wont have to invest unless instructed to by my guild. I was a gatherer originally and also a hardcore gamer. I'm still a gatherer and a hard core gamer. Nothing is stopping the crafting guilds from clubbing together for a freehold. I personally wanted to curb the gold sinks and I believe I still can
What is stopping you from being a top tier crafter in the game? You can't craft the best items on a freehold.
You can't master everything either, either way if you are trying to be a top tier crafter you are using and playing the market....
I feel getting a freehold should be a rare drop item as well tbh. Not in legendary rare status but excitement when you get one. With it being bind on pickup and only lasting for a certain amount of days.
It will allow more people to have chances to get it, than it just being people that made a lot of money and bidding on them quickly. Caps to control things and limit demand can help.
That being said though she showed a lot, there is a lot we still don't know. but I feel we have enough information and showing the progression on it to be good for alpha 2 and the surprises that come with it imo.
Did you not even watch the live stream, or did you hear one thing and than complained without watching the full dev stream?
I respect your opinion but i also disagree. Everyone is totally free to have their own opinions, but i did want to point out for those who might not know, you are the leader of a massive guild who will probably never have to worry about getting a freehold. So it feels like you wont be as effected by these changes as most people who aren't the top of massive organizations lol.
To be fair to you, i am also bias because i am usually a solo player or play with small groups. So of course i would want it to be easier to get them haha