Why should I fight for my node?

Dhaiwon wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

Well you are not wrong. Despite that, the question of whether we have accidentally incentivized "betrayal" over loyalty with the information shared in the last stream is one question that wont really leave my head.

I mean, we have made Freeholds very lucrative, and if there is none to be had, well... I foresee a lot of people suddenly being busy elsewhere on the day of the siege. Or even have their alts join in on the other side. In fact, with how petty people can be, it wouldn't even suprise me if the people that cant even afford one will also stay out of it based on a "if I cant have it, why should they?"-mentality. People can be really nasty critters sometimes :S

ok you betray me, my freehold gets destroyed. now you dont have access to my services, you arent guaranteed to get one, because other people might outbid you, and on top of that, even if oyu did get it, do yo think people are going to help you retain it after all that? enjoy your freehold for one month. probably not enough time to progress the buildings inside it.

Songcaller

A successful siege puts the node to level 0 last I heard. No freeholds will be available at a level 0 node. Thus, you could just wait for the node siege to end and scoop up a freehold at a new level 3 node.

Depraved wrote: »

BlackBrony wrote: »

Considering numbers given, freeholds or housing will be limited to select few. Being that the case, what is the motivation to fight for my node?
If having my node destroyed gives the small chance to get a Freehold or static housing, why would I fight for my node? The potential gains seem to be so much higher than having some mats destroyed that I store in my instanced housing.

Am I missing something here? Please correct me if I'm mistaken about something.

because you or your freinds might have a freehold in said node. you might also have stuff stored in that node and you dont want the node to be destroyed so that other people wont lose your stuff. also, you have a developed node so you dont want to lose that as well..

None of these are practical reasons.

First, if you aren't a citizen of a node, you are unlikely to leave too much there - purely being sieges are a thing. Sure, in some games you may want to base yourself in a node, but if there is no actual reason to do that in Ashes, you won't. If you are not based in any node, you will make sure you are spread out in order to minimize loss in a siege.

The notion of a node being built up is a possibility - but it is a pretty poor reason. There are other nodes that are built up as well - and if not becoming a citizen is the way you are playing the game, then there is no issue at all in just heading over towards another node.

Quite honestly, if I do not have a freehold and thus aren't a citizen (I don't see any point in becoming a citizen short of owning a freehold) and the node I am currently based in is put under siege, I probably wouldn't even wait around for the siege - I'd just get what ever I have in storage there and move on to another node.

At best, I'd hang around to sell some resources that are in high demand with a siege in order to make a bit of profit.

Dhaiwon

Depraved wrote: »

You are assuming that you are aware of being betrayed, as opposed to just having a general feeling of people never really committing to node defense. Also, from what I gather, you having a freehold will not give a random player acess to any services. Family members will, and they will probably show up to defend it, true. But the rest of the citizens of the node?

But yes, if that is the way it goes, clearly no one will have their freehold very long, and no one will be very happy. That much is very true. Which is part of why the thought concerns me so.

Noaani wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

BlackBrony wrote: »

Considering numbers given, freeholds or housing will be limited to select few. Being that the case, what is the motivation to fight for my node?
If having my node destroyed gives the small chance to get a Freehold or static housing, why would I fight for my node? The potential gains seem to be so much higher than having some mats destroyed that I store in my instanced housing.

Am I missing something here? Please correct me if I'm mistaken about something.

because you or your freinds might have a freehold in said node. you might also have stuff stored in that node and you dont want the node to be destroyed so that other people wont lose your stuff. also, you have a developed node so you dont want to lose that as well..

None of these are practical reasons.

First, if you aren't a citizen of a node, you are unlikely to leave too much there - purely being sieges are a thing. Sure, in some games you may want to base yourself in a node, but if there is no actual reason to do that in Ashes, you won't. If you are not based in any node, you will make sure you are spread out in order to minimize loss in a siege.

The notion of a node being built up is a possibility - but it is a pretty poor reason. There are other nodes that are built up as well - and if not becoming a citizen is the way you are playing the game, then there is no issue at all in just heading over towards another node.

Quite honestly, if I do not have a freehold and thus aren't a citizen (I don't see any point in becoming a citizen short of owning a freehold) and the node I am currently based in is put under siege, I probably wouldn't even wait around for the siege - I'd just get what ever I have in storage there and move on to another node.

At best, I'd hang around to sell some resources that are in high demand with a siege in order to make a bit of profit.

are we talking about defending the node you are citizien of, or defending your own node?
if you arent a citizen of the node being attacked, it might still be benefitial to defend it if you have an alliance with that node, since they can help defend yours.

random node the other side of the map with no alliances to yours? probably not

Songcaller

If we can still defend a node we are not a citizen of then there's even less point in being a citizen without a Freehold. Can still experience a node defence with little skin in the game.

Depraved wrote: »

are we talking about defending the node you are citizien of, or defending your own node?
if you arent a citizen of the node being attacked, it might still be benefitial to defend it if you have an alliance with that node, since they can help defend yours.

random node the other side of the map with no alliances to yours? probably not

I think you are missing the point - again.

With the way things are looking now, most people won't bother with node citizenship. The reason to become a citizen has always been to have a freehold. Since you don't need to be a citizen in order to bid, the play for basically everyone will be to remain a non-citizen unless/until they get a freehold somewhere.

If you are not a citizen of any node, there is no point in trying to have some mutual defence pact with any given node - you have no node you want them to come to the defence of.

Noaani wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

are we talking about defending the node you are citizien of, or defending your own node?
if you arent a citizen of the node being attacked, it might still be benefitial to defend it if you have an alliance with that node, since they can help defend yours.

random node the other side of the map with no alliances to yours? probably not

I think you are missing the point - again.

With the way things are looking now, most people won't bother with node citizenship. The reason to become a citizen has always been to have a freehold. Since you don't need to be a citizen in order to bid, the play for basically everyone will be to remain a non-citizen unless/until they get a freehold somewhere.

If you are not a citizen of any node, there is no point in trying to have some mutual defence pact with any given node - you have no node you want them to come to the defence of.

you get benefits for being a citizen of a node. for me, and probably other people, becoming a citizen wasnt about a freehold, it was about either becoming a bounty hunter (if you join a military node) or progress in a religion and get augments (combat strength). i wasnt really interested in scientific or economic nodes, but i believe you need to be a citizen of those nodes to be able to buy some recipes. so yeah there are still incentives to become a citizen of a node, other than getting a freehold .-.

you probably dont want a metropolis to be destroyed since you will lose access to its perks

Depraved wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

are we talking about defending the node you are citizien of, or defending your own node?
if you arent a citizen of the node being attacked, it might still be benefitial to defend it if you have an alliance with that node, since they can help defend yours.

random node the other side of the map with no alliances to yours? probably not

I think you are missing the point - again.

With the way things are looking now, most people won't bother with node citizenship. The reason to become a citizen has always been to have a freehold. Since you don't need to be a citizen in order to bid, the play for basically everyone will be to remain a non-citizen unless/until they get a freehold somewhere.

If you are not a citizen of any node, there is no point in trying to have some mutual defence pact with any given node - you have no node you want them to come to the defence of.

you get benefits for being a citizen of a node. for me, and probably other people, becoming a citizen wasnt about a freehold, it was about either becoming a bounty hunter (if you join a military node) or progress in a religion and get augments (combat strength). i wasnt really interested in scientific or economic nodes, but i believe you need to be a citizen of those nodes to be able to buy some recipes. so yeah there are still incentives to become a citizen of a node, other than getting a freehold .-.

you probably dont want a metropolis to be destroyed since you will lose access to its perks

None of these are overly compelling.

The only way the religious or social organization augments are going to be worth being a citizen is if they have their own augment slot.

The thing is, with religion, social organizations and bounty hunters, there still isn't a reason to defend a node.

If you become a citizen to be a bounty hunter and that node is destroyed, just become a citizen of another military node. If it is a religion or social organization, become a citizen of a node that has those buildings. Nothing lost on your part.

Now, to be fair, there are still relics. The thing is, does anyone here believe that someone unable to get a freehold in Ashes will have any real means of interacting with a relic?

This leaves the only reason to give a shit about a node surviving a siege is if you have land there.

If you have no land there, you have no reason at all to care. Defending a node in that situation is a waste of your time and resources. You are better off served by just moving on.

Biccus

Noaani wrote: »

Quite honestly, if I do not have a freehold and thus aren't a citizen and the node I am currently based in is put under siege, I probably wouldn't even wait around for the siege - I'd just get what ever I have in storage there and move on to another node.

I am of the understanding that once a siege is declared, all resource containers become locked. (For resources and materials at least) You can’t just grab your things and bail.
Depending on how much you have stored will determine the level of incentive you have to defend the node.

daveywavey

Depraved wrote: »

you probably dont want a metropolis to be destroyed since you will lose access to its perks

The point the OP was making was this:

- They wanted a Freehold
- They missed out on getting a Freehold, either because they were too slow or just got outbid at auction
- They still want a Freehold
- The node is going to be sieged, which if successful, will open up the opportunity to get a Freehold again once the node has levelled up to Village

Their options are:
- Defend the node and lose the opportunity of getting that Freehold
- Completely ignore the siege (or even sign up as a Defender and just do nothing), and gain that chance to get the new set of Freeholds at Village level

For someone who simply wanted to own a Freehold in that area to do their artisan-work, waiting for the siege to be successful, or even helping the siege to be successful by sabotaging the defence effort, is the obvious choice.

Biccus wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Quite honestly, if I do not have a freehold and thus aren't a citizen and the node I am currently based in is put under siege, I probably wouldn't even wait around for the siege - I'd just get what ever I have in storage there and move on to another node.

I am of the understanding that once a siege is declared, all resource containers become locked. (For resources and materials at least) You can’t just grab your things and bail.
Depending on how much you have stored will determine the level of incentive you have to defend the node.

I mean, this is the case right now, but how is one supposed to craft items for the defense of the node?

Further, since a player with no node citizenship is going to spread their resources around many nodes, losing one shouldn't be the biggest issue.

As a final point, node mayors are given a heads up before a node is declared. They are notified if their node is named on a siege scroll before that scroll is used. Even if that mayor doesn't outright tell everyone, it should be fairly obvious that the mayor is getting ready for a siege (perhaps by emptying their own storage).

Depraved wrote: »

BlackBrony wrote: »

Considering numbers given, freeholds or housing will be limited to select few. Being that the case, what is the motivation to fight for my node?
If having my node destroyed gives the small chance to get a Freehold or static housing, why would I fight for my node? The potential gains seem to be so much higher than having some mats destroyed that I store in my instanced housing.

Am I missing something here? Please correct me if I'm mistaken about something.

because you or your freinds might have a freehold in said node. you might also have stuff stored in that node and you dont want the node to be destroyed so that other people wont lose your stuff. also, you have a developed node so you dont want to lose that as well..

Decent point, but I don't think "group of friends" will own any nodes. Only large guilds will do it. If you can bid, someone can outbid, and guilds have the power to do that. No one can go against a corporation, that's the idea.

Yes, you might have stuff store in the node, and you might lose it. Now... is losing that stuff really that damaging? If the node is destroyed, albeit small, you have a chance to claim a freehold. A destroyed node will bring more business because guilds will move materials to make it grow fast, and when freeholds unlock, they might have less money due to investment in the node, or maybe you get lucky.
Isn't that chance worth some measly mats you might have in your node?

Dhaiwon wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

Well you are not wrong. Despite that, the question of whether we have accidentally incentivized "betrayal" over loyalty with the information shared in the last stream is one question that wont really leave my head.

I mean, we have made Freeholds very lucrative, and if there is none to be had, well... I foresee a lot of people suddenly being busy elsewhere on the day of the siege. Or even have their alts join in on the other side. In fact, with how petty people can be, it wouldn't even suprise me if the people that cant even afford one will also stay out of it based on a "if I cant have it, why should they?"-mentality. People can be really nasty critters sometimes :S

Yes!!!! This is EXACTLY my point! Why fight when I have NOTHING to lose? Just let it go, make people spend more gold, and maybe I can get a chance for a freehold or house.

daveywavey wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

you probably dont want a metropolis to be destroyed since you will lose access to its perks

The point the OP was making was this:

- They wanted a Freehold
- They missed out on getting a Freehold, either because they were too slow or just got outbid at auction
- They still want a Freehold
- The node is going to be sieged, which if successful, will open up the opportunity to get a Freehold again once the node has levelled up to Village

Their options are:
- Defend the node and lose the opportunity of getting that Freehold
- Completely ignore the siege (or even sign up as a Defender and just do nothing), and gain that chance to get the new set of Freeholds at Village level

For someone who simply wanted to own a Freehold in that area to do their artisan-work, waiting for the siege to be successful, or even helping the siege to be successful by sabotaging the defence effort, is the obvious choice.

YEP. I'm trying to find reasons why people who don't own property should care about defending a node. Suddenly a node with 2k citizens it's not that strong if only 10% of those 2k have property.
Is it another friction point? Maybe. Maybe you have to pay me so I can fight in defense of your node, because sure as hell I'm not getting that much benefit from it.

Maybe I'm just a peasant and my lords need to incentivize me to fight for them. I am all for it, but with the current information that I have, I can't find reasons.
How is the mayor of such node going to do it? Are they gonna individually trade 1k players?

daveywavey wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

you probably dont want a metropolis to be destroyed since you will lose access to its perks

The point the OP was making was this:

- They wanted a Freehold
- They missed out on getting a Freehold, either because they were too slow or just got outbid at auction
- They still want a Freehold
- The node is going to be sieged, which if successful, will open up the opportunity to get a Freehold again once the node has levelled up to Village

Their options are:
- Defend the node and lose the opportunity of getting that Freehold
- Completely ignore the siege (or even sign up as a Defender and just do nothing), and gain that chance to get the new set of Freeholds at Village level

For someone who simply wanted to own a Freehold in that area to do their artisan-work, waiting for the siege to be successful, or even helping the siege to be successful by sabotaging the defence effort, is the obvious choice.

i understand the point he is making, and all im saying is if you boycott the siege to get a chance to have a fh, there are consequences for that, plus it not guaranteed that you get it anwyays. so yeah, enjoy your fh for a month until you lose it. probs wont even have time to max out the buildings.

BlackBrony wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

BlackBrony wrote: »

Considering numbers given, freeholds or housing will be limited to select few. Being that the case, what is the motivation to fight for my node?
If having my node destroyed gives the small chance to get a Freehold or static housing, why would I fight for my node? The potential gains seem to be so much higher than having some mats destroyed that I store in my instanced housing.

Am I missing something here? Please correct me if I'm mistaken about something.

because you or your freinds might have a freehold in said node. you might also have stuff stored in that node and you dont want the node to be destroyed so that other people wont lose your stuff. also, you have a developed node so you dont want to lose that as well..

Decent point, but I don't think "group of friends" will own any nodes. Only large guilds will do it. If you can bid, someone can outbid, and guilds have the power to do that. No one can go against a corporation, that's the idea.

Yes, you might have stuff store in the node, and you might lose it. Now... is losing that stuff really that damaging? If the node is destroyed, albeit small, you have a chance to claim a freehold. A destroyed node will bring more business because guilds will move materials to make it grow fast, and when freeholds unlock, they might have less money due to investment in the node, or maybe you get lucky.
Isn't that chance worth some measly mats you might have in your node?

are large guilds formed by groups of friends? also remember, when 2 large guilds are bidding for a fh, you and your family can be bidding for another fh...

there will be more families than guilds.

Depraved wrote: »

daveywavey wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

you probably dont want a metropolis to be destroyed since you will lose access to its perks

The point the OP was making was this:

- They wanted a Freehold
- They missed out on getting a Freehold, either because they were too slow or just got outbid at auction
- They still want a Freehold
- The node is going to be sieged, which if successful, will open up the opportunity to get a Freehold again once the node has levelled up to Village

Their options are:
- Defend the node and lose the opportunity of getting that Freehold
- Completely ignore the siege (or even sign up as a Defender and just do nothing), and gain that chance to get the new set of Freeholds at Village level

For someone who simply wanted to own a Freehold in that area to do their artisan-work, waiting for the siege to be successful, or even helping the siege to be successful by sabotaging the defence effort, is the obvious choice.

i understand the point he is making, and all im saying is if you boycott the siege to get a chance to have a fh, there are consequences for that, plus it not guaranteed that you get it anwyays. so yeah, enjoy your fh for a month until you lose it. probs wont even have time to max out the buildings.

That's not really an argument though. I am asking WHY should I defend the node. Give me a reason that's not some arbitrary buff or just "because it's fun". I can't find really hard reasons that make sense to defend it.
When I have a Freehold, for sure I will defend it, but before, why?

Depraved wrote: »

BlackBrony wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

BlackBrony wrote: »

Considering numbers given, freeholds or housing will be limited to select few. Being that the case, what is the motivation to fight for my node?
If having my node destroyed gives the small chance to get a Freehold or static housing, why would I fight for my node? The potential gains seem to be so much higher than having some mats destroyed that I store in my instanced housing.

Am I missing something here? Please correct me if I'm mistaken about something.

because you or your freinds might have a freehold in said node. you might also have stuff stored in that node and you dont want the node to be destroyed so that other people wont lose your stuff. also, you have a developed node so you dont want to lose that as well..

Decent point, but I don't think "group of friends" will own any nodes. Only large guilds will do it. If you can bid, someone can outbid, and guilds have the power to do that. No one can go against a corporation, that's the idea.

Yes, you might have stuff store in the node, and you might lose it. Now... is losing that stuff really that damaging? If the node is destroyed, albeit small, you have a chance to claim a freehold. A destroyed node will bring more business because guilds will move materials to make it grow fast, and when freeholds unlock, they might have less money due to investment in the node, or maybe you get lucky.
Isn't that chance worth some measly mats you might have in your node?

are large guilds formed by groups of friends? also remember, when 2 large guilds are bidding for a fh, you and your family can be bidding for another fh...

there will be more families than guilds.

Guilds will be formed by families, that's a given. The family will be use to distribute access to the guild members, I think that was pretty clear.
A guild won't give you a freehold so you can let it use for free by other members who don't belong to the guild.