Freehold system makes me more hopeful for Ashes of Creation.

Honestly, hearing about this Freehold system has rekindled my interest in Ashes of Creation. The fact that they might stick to their original design instead of pandering to casual players is quite exciting.

Finally, there might be a game where guilds are able to control meaningful content inside an MMORPG, instead of it being a themepark borefest where everyone gets everything.

I am curious, though. If you are a casual or solo player interested in Ashes of Creation, what are you expected to achieve and do inside the game? Because in my eyes, with the current design, you are just going to be a pawn that guilds will use for their own gain/fun.

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Abarat

Noaani wrote: »

Liniker wrote: »

Yes, the freehold system is indeed sticking to their original vision - ashes was never a solo-friendly game.

@Liniker

The problem is that Ashes is now a solo-hostile game.

honestly. ugg. we have lost our collective minds.

Just relax... take a breath. if you are concerned, start asking questions, bringing up concerns... not making definitive, uneducated, ignorant statements with little or no basis in fact. This is not a personal attack, which seems to be a big deal on this forum on certain days, I am attacking your weak-as* argument.

I am sad for humanity. I wish I could do a dmca strike to stop all the crazy, but very factually stated, arguments. But, I cannot. My morals will not allow it.

Abarat

Noaani wrote: »

Individuated Soul wrote: »

Catering to casuals is required when you lack vision, leadership, and are motivated by money. As I said earlier, the philosophy and design pillars are what matter the most and Steven has the intelligence to know that, and leadership to see it through. If the game is great casuals will naturally come, but they are not the main objective. People who will enjoy and partake in the deliberately crafted world of Verra are.

So, I saw Stevens leadership first hand in Archeage.

Don't attept to pull that card, it's blank.

This seems like a personal attack on Steven. I would ask forum moderation to address this. @Vaknar

Depraved

im wondering if steven guild dominated nooanis guild in AA or if noaanis dominated stevens.

Songcaller

Noaani was a lone pirate for a lot of AA.

Mag7spy

NiKr wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

What im asking is do you agree they need to change direction to capture the fortnite and LoL crowds with casual gameplay mechanics that will make them play the game and not quit do to more hardcore-ish elements. Ie open world pvp, and anything in related to loss or things being limited, faster progression etc.

Noaani didn't say that. Noaani provided examples of general entertainment that takes up people's time. And Ashes does in fact compete with that, because it also takes up time (and as far as we know it takes a shitton of it).

And Noaani then said that Intrepid just gotta appeal to those people who it considers a good TA. Those would, usually, be mmo players. And considering the current state of the genre, mmo players have quite the range of preferences. And if Intrepid provide a great game to those players, it'll succeed to a much greater extent.

You really going out of your way to defend him here. I could explain in detail why its a bad take, but if you believe they all share the same fan bases and they are competing with each other so be it.

Ludullu

Mag7spy wrote: »

You really going out of your way to defend him here. I could explain in detail why its a bad take, but if you believe they all share the same fan bases and they are competing with each other so be it.

Mag, it is not about fan bases or any of that shit.

Do you have a hobby? Literally anything? Fucking walks in a park would suffice. When Ashes comes out it will compete for your attention and time with that hobby. You'll have to think "do I like my hobby or Ashes more?" when you decide what to do on any given day.

That is what Noaani was talking about. It's not about defending his points or any of that shit. It's god damn common sense. We don't have infinite time to spend, as much as I want that to not be true (even if I do literally have all the time I'd want).

Depraved

NiKr wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

You really going out of your way to defend him here. I could explain in detail why its a bad take, but if you believe they all share the same fan bases and they are competing with each other so be it.

Mag, it is not about fan bases or any of that shit.

Do you have a hobby? Literally anything? Fucking walks in a park would suffice. When Ashes comes out it will compete for your attention and time with that hobby. You'll have to think "do I like my hobby or Ashes more?" when you decide what to do on any given day.

That is what Noaani was talking about. It's not about defending his points or any of that shit. It's god damn common sense. We don't have infinite time to spend, as much as I want that to not be true (even if I do literally have all the time I'd want).

why do people watch bad movies and enjoy them or play games that arent 10/10?

if things were as simple as that, no one would play a game that isnt a 10/10 after seeing the reviews, except the folks who play games to review them. why play a 7 or an 8 when i can play a 9 or a 10? specially nowdays where getting a game is really easy. you dont have to go out anymore and buy it, u just go to amazon or steam and click a couple of times.

Songcaller

Someone's 8 can be another's 10.

Ludullu

Depraved wrote: »

if things were as simple as that, no one would play a game that isnt a 10/10 after seeing the reviews, except the folks who play games to review them. why play a 7 or an 8 when i can play a 9 or a 10? specially nowdays where getting a game is really easy. you dont have to go out anymore and buy it, u just go to amazon or steam and click a couple of times.

Yes, there are still preferences. And just as both Noaani and I said - Intrepid will have to target the people who'd probably be interested in playing Ashes. Considering that it's an mmo - go to mmo players. Those have different preferences, which Intrepid should be interested in putting into the game.

And again, it doesn't mean giving everything out for free or anything of the sort. It just means having a better scaling to availability instead of "you either have or have not" and then decreasing the "have" part with each update to the game.

Mag7spy

NiKr wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

You really going out of your way to defend him here. I could explain in detail why its a bad take, but if you believe they all share the same fan bases and they are competing with each other so be it.

Mag, it is not about fan bases or any of that shit.

Do you have a hobby? Literally anything? Fucking walks in a park would suffice. When Ashes comes out it will compete for your attention and time with that hobby. You'll have to think "do I like my hobby or Ashes more?" when you decide what to do on any given day.

That is what Noaani was talking about. It's not about defending his points or any of that shit. It's god damn common sense. We don't have infinite time to spend, as much as I want that to not be true (even if I do literally have all the time I'd want).

People do what they like you are correct.

What is it that draw people to fortnite, does not equal what draw people to a mmorpg...or the type of mmorpg AoC is going to be.

So are you saying that AoC needs to add gameplay loops to capture fortnite audience based on what they like about fortnite?

Again you don't need to defend him there is 0 reason for you to, guy will use you just cause.

The whole reason we are into it is because the vision is going for what we want in a game, not selling out to the corpos....

Depraved

Neurath wrote: »

Someone's 8 can be another's 10.

exactly, but there's more to it ;3

Ludullu

Mag7spy wrote: »

What is it that draw people to fortnite, does not equal what draw people to a mmorpg...or the type of mmorpg AoC is going to be.

Mag. I play genshin, star rail, gta5 and gonna be playing c&c generals tomorrow. If Ashes was out right now, I'd have to choose between all those games and it. I have fun in all of those games (and hope to have fun in Ashes), but I'm not about to ask Intrepid to put real-time strategy mechanics into Ashes.

How is this a hard fucking concept to comprehend. People can enjoy different things on quite a big range of genres too. And all of those things can be equally fun and interesting to those people. So Ashes will have to compete with all of those things if it wants to survive.

I'm not fucking defending Noaani I just agree with his point. If you for some reason thought of me as an ally on this matter you can switch that off in your brain. Though it'd be better if you just started to try and understand other people's point. I know that I now sound exactly like the people whose points you haven't been understanding and you'll probably reject me saying this, but I hope you'll understand it in time.

Songcaller

Depraved wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

Someone's 8 can be another's 10.

exactly, but there's more to it ;3

I'm not sure I get your point. It is true the gaming commodities are easier to obtain but the let's plays are now more prevalent. Ashes is very reliant on the let's plays, streamers, livestreams and interaction with the community.

I'm sure Steven and the devs will provide some sort of system to appease the negative stances but I'm not sure what such a system will entail.

Depraved

Neurath wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

Someone's 8 can be another's 10.

exactly, but there's more to it ;3

I'm not sure I get your point. It is true the gaming commodities are easier to obtain but the let's plays are now more prevalent. Ashes is very reliant on the let's plays, streamers, livestreams and interaction with the community.

I'm sure Steven and the devs will provide some sort of system to appease the negative stances but I'm not sure what such a system will entail.

there is just the marketing part. you cant make one product for everyone, thats how you end up making it for no one. you said it yourself, someones 8 can be anothers 10, so you focus on those people, and keep them in the game. thats what i meant

Songcaller

Depraved wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

Someone's 8 can be another's 10.

exactly, but there's more to it ;3

I'm not sure I get your point. It is true the gaming commodities are easier to obtain but the let's plays are now more prevalent. Ashes is very reliant on the let's plays, streamers, livestreams and interaction with the community.

I'm sure Steven and the devs will provide some sort of system to appease the negative stances but I'm not sure what such a system will entail.

there is just the marketing part. you cant make one product for everyone, thats how you end up making it for no one. you said it yourself, someones 8 can be anothers 10, so you focus on those people, and keep them in the game. thats what i meant

Yeah I get your point but wouldn't you rather have more players than less in an mmo? We don't have to cater to everyone but we should try to cater to those people who stood behind the sea pvp change because those people are great for a pvx game.

Depraved

well...players in other servers do not affect me, or you. For example, did players in Korea affect you when you played Lineage? did it make a difference if the population increased or decreased? its the same for ashes.

I can only interact with 9999 players, so the other millions or hundreds of thousands are basically nonexistent. Everything is relative. I just need the game to have enough players so that the servers don't close. how many is that? not sure...but I can tell you that if the majority are antisocial loner casuals who hate pvp and competition, the game might shift in that direction since it's harder to acquire new customers than to keep existing ones.

id rather have 100,000 social and competitive players than 1,000,000 antisocial whiners and have the game shifted towards them.

robs the people who like the sea pvp change are the people who arent complaining about freeholds xD i mean lets be honest, most people arent complaining..otherwise you would see at least 100,000 users in the forum commenting. tis just a small minority.

like ive said multiple times, people never call their internet provider to thell them the service is great and praise them, because thats what expected. people only call when there is a problem, and its only a minority with the problem.

i mean look at the forum threads. theres maybe 3 threads praising the game and dozens of threads of people complaining, yet the game has millions of pre registrations (according to steven. so most people arent in here

Songcaller

I don't know if you've noticed but we can be very hostile to new faces. People have braved the forum on both sides for the first time. This debate has been quite vicious between familiar faces too.

It's not a case for you to be able to state these players are anti social. They want to produce things for people, run taverns for people and pay taxes to nodes. They want ways to express their desires much like you.

It's true you might never meet one if you tried hard enough but server mergers will be a real pain for those of us who gamble with the amount of issues being created right now.

The vast majority of people have accepted they won't own a freehold. Those people have given up. There are a few fighters who have not given up and those are the people I'd fight alongside in a node war or node siege too.

Ludullu

Depraved wrote: »

id rather have 100,000 social and competitive players than 1,000,000 antisocial whiners and have the game shifted towards them

And if internal TA calculations point at there being enough super hardcore pvxers out there - more power to Intrepid.

But I'd rather have a higher standard for them and believe that they can find a way to satisfy both sides, which will not only increase their profits but will also make the game better for everyone. 100k players might keep the lights on, but 500k will not only fill out servers much better, but will also let Intrepid keep making great content for the game for years to come instead of just staying in one place.

Noaani

Abarat wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Individuated Soul wrote: »

Catering to casuals is required when you lack vision, leadership, and are motivated by money. As I said earlier, the philosophy and design pillars are what matter the most and Steven has the intelligence to know that, and leadership to see it through. If the game is great casuals will naturally come, but they are not the main objective. People who will enjoy and partake in the deliberately crafted world of Verra are.

So, I saw Stevens leadership first hand in Archeage.

Don't attept to pull that card, it's blank.

This seems like a personal attack on Steven. I would ask forum moderation to address this. Vaknar

I mean, Steven himself said he was a dick in Archeage. He has talked about his time there a little

Cant really be a personal attack if I am just agreeing with him.

Noaani

Depraved wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Individuated Soul wrote: »

Again, you keep trying to get the game to cater to individuals. The design and philosophy of a game is sacred, not pandering to casuals. If you want to be successful in a system then you must cater yourself to it. Refusal is your right, but don't expect an easy road to success.

No idea who you are talking about here, but I am going to answer anyway.

Ashes is in competition with every other MMO out there. Ashes is also in competition with every FPS game, every single player game, every MOBA. Ashes is also in competition with Netflix, with Disney, with NFL, with NBA, with Fox, with your local golf course, ten pin bowling, movie theatre, stage theatre, comedy club, literally every business out there that provides entertainment.

Ashes needs people to say "of all the options open to me, I chose playing Ashes".

As such, it needs to cater to every group it identifies as being required for the game to function.

If it is not catering to casual players, it means Intrepid have decided they do not need casual players. If Ashes does not have casual players, who are the guilds blocking content from?

thats why you have user personas and segmentation. do you really think people who play fortnite and call of duty all day are the same people who play mmorpg all day? or the 13 years old watching netflix adnd tiktok all day will be the same people who plays mmorpg all day? XDDDDDDDD

When my guild left Archeage, some went on to play FPS games. One of then went deep in to DotA (think it was DotA2, not sure). One or two of then went in to casual BRs for a few years.

Some of us went deep in to Factorio (I have over 10k hours played in that game). Some have been playing Cities: Skylines (a game every MMO developer could learn a thing or two about).

Some of them formed an online tabletop D&D game that met three times a week. One of them joined a bowling league (and won himself a few trophies).

Two of them went in to racing sims. We've not heard from them since.

We all also started watching either shows or movies and discussing them among ourselves (ie, we spent time we would normally have been playing an MMO watching Netflix instead).

All of them would rather be playing an MMORPG if there was a decent one out there.

The idea that all of these activities aren't competing with MMO's is simply unfounded. If people aren't enjoying any MMO they have access to, they will instead do something else they enjoy.

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