Entitled Solo-Players Whiners will Ruin this game.

Not the best at typing. German guy here.

I have been following the game ever since Kickstarter. First-time I feel the urge to actually make a thread forum post. What is up with all this whining about freeholds?! This is not Barbie MMO why am I having a Déjà vu with NEW WORLD ALPHA forums when all the same solo-player whing crybabies showed up and started asking to removal of PVP to Teleportation to easy questing and all the same crap that ended up killing the game?!

Happening all over again Intrepid better just ignore this people they want easy best house in the game playing SOLO?! what the actual f...... If I was Stephen I would just block all the accounts. They are the same that will leave the game after 3 months when League of Legends MMO comes out. We don't need them we need dedicate players. Ignore them. Everyone in guild is happy.

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Marcet

If you like to play alone, like a lot of us want, you can't expect to reach goals as high as a coordinated group of people. You just can't be that entitled.

If this was the case, nobody would need to work together and the game would be a boring solo-simulator, people would begin to isolate themselves more and more until the game is dead. Some things are cool because you won't have it. The value is so high. The game is more deep.

Individuated Soul

Marcet wrote: »

If you like to play alone, like a lot of us want, you can't expect to reach goals as high as a coordinated group of people. You just can't be that entitled.

If this was the case, nobody would need to work together and the game would be a boring solo-simulator, people would begin to isolate themselves more and more until the game is dead. Some things are cool because you won't have it. The value is so high. The game is more deep.

/thread

It's that simple. People flaunt their 'backer status' but can't reach the obvious answer as you did. Entitled players trying to be snowflakes specially catered to because they don't want to group in a game that overtly rewards coordination and teamwork because it's part of the design.

BlackBrony

Marcet wrote: »

If you like to play alone, like a lot of us want, you can't expect to reach goals as high as a coordinated group of people. You just can't be that entitled.

If this was the case, nobody would need to work together and the game would be a boring solo-simulator, people would begin to isolate themselves more and more until the game is dead. Some things are cool because you won't have it. The value is so high. The game is more deep.

That's the point. If everything is for coordinated group of people there's nothing left. Husbandry, inns, all gone for casuals that don't have a strong guild. Static housing, gone.

Depraved

BlackBrony wrote: »

Marcet wrote: »

If you like to play alone, like a lot of us want, you can't expect to reach goals as high as a coordinated group of people. You just can't be that entitled.

If this was the case, nobody would need to work together and the game would be a boring solo-simulator, people would begin to isolate themselves more and more until the game is dead. Some things are cool because you won't have it. The value is so high. The game is more deep.

That's the point. If everything is for coordinated group of people there's nothing left. Husbandry, inns, all gone for casuals that don't have a strong guild. Static housing, gone.

whats wrong with organizing in groups? you can still be a casual and organize yourself in a group with other casuals who play during your play time and get things done

Fantmx

Marcet wrote: »

If you like to play alone, like a lot of us want, you can't expect to reach goals as high as a coordinated group of people. You just can't be that entitled.

If this was the case, nobody would need to work together and the game would be a boring solo-simulator, people would begin to isolate themselves more and more until the game is dead. Some things are cool because you won't have it. The value is so high. The game is more deep.

I've never once seen anyone labeled as casual or solo demand they get everything a group of people or hardcore player gets. If you are stuck on that thought you have a found a tree and it's time to start looking for the forest.

Songcaller

BlackBrony wrote: »

Marcet wrote: »

If you like to play alone, like a lot of us want, you can't expect to reach goals as high as a coordinated group of people. You just can't be that entitled.

If this was the case, nobody would need to work together and the game would be a boring solo-simulator, people would begin to isolate themselves more and more until the game is dead. Some things are cool because you won't have it. The value is so high. The game is more deep.

That's the point. If everything is for coordinated group of people there's nothing left. Husbandry, inns, all gone for casuals that don't have a strong guild. Static housing, gone.

Even some coordinated groups have been turned off by this change. More's the pity.

Marcet

BlackBrony wrote: »

Marcet wrote: »

If you like to play alone, like a lot of us want, you can't expect to reach goals as high as a coordinated group of people. You just can't be that entitled.

If this was the case, nobody would need to work together and the game would be a boring solo-simulator, people would begin to isolate themselves more and more until the game is dead. Some things are cool because you won't have it. The value is so high. The game is more deep.

That's the point. If everything is for coordinated group of people there's nothing left. Husbandry, inns, all gone for casuals that don't have a strong guild. Static housing, gone.

You guys talk like this is the only thing in the game. I hope it's not just a housing simulator, right...??

You can't beat dungeons solo, you can't beat bosses solo, you can't invade a node solo, but when they tell you that you can't own physical space in the server just for you and yourself, you guys go crazy.

Songcaller

Wiki states Freeholds will be ample. This is no longer the case.

BlackBrony

Marcet wrote: »

BlackBrony wrote: »

Marcet wrote: »

If you like to play alone, like a lot of us want, you can't expect to reach goals as high as a coordinated group of people. You just can't be that entitled.

If this was the case, nobody would need to work together and the game would be a boring solo-simulator, people would begin to isolate themselves more and more until the game is dead. Some things are cool because you won't have it. The value is so high. The game is more deep.

That's the point. If everything is for coordinated group of people there's nothing left. Husbandry, inns, all gone for casuals that don't have a strong guild. Static housing, gone.

You guys talk like this is the only thing in the game. I hope it's not just a housing simulator, right...??

You can't beat dungeons solo, you can't beat bosses solo, you can't invade a node solo, but when they tell you that you can't own physical space in the server just for you and yourself, you guys go crazy.

Dungeons? Are you telling me that guilds won't control them, ask for money to enter or forbid entrance? Bosses, you mean world bosses? A casual or small guild don't stand a chance for that.
Even farming mats. Hardcore guilds already have designated farmers, you think some casuals farming gonna make them rich?
What is the "exclusivity" in farming? None. Everyone can farm, therefore it holds no value compared to processing mats, which requires a freehold.

Marcet

BlackBrony wrote: »

Marcet wrote: »

BlackBrony wrote: »

Marcet wrote: »

If you like to play alone, like a lot of us want, you can't expect to reach goals as high as a coordinated group of people. You just can't be that entitled.

If this was the case, nobody would need to work together and the game would be a boring solo-simulator, people would begin to isolate themselves more and more until the game is dead. Some things are cool because you won't have it. The value is so high. The game is more deep.

That's the point. If everything is for coordinated group of people there's nothing left. Husbandry, inns, all gone for casuals that don't have a strong guild. Static housing, gone.

You guys talk like this is the only thing in the game. I hope it's not just a housing simulator, right...??

You can't beat dungeons solo, you can't beat bosses solo, you can't invade a node solo, but when they tell you that you can't own physical space in the server just for you and yourself, you guys go crazy.

Dungeons? Are you telling me that guilds won't control them, ask for money to enter or forbid entrance? Bosses, you mean world bosses? A casual or small guild don't stand a chance for that.
Even farming mats. Hardcore guilds already have designated farmers, you think some casuals farming gonna make them rich?
What is the "exclusivity" in farming? None. Everyone can farm, therefore it holds no value compared to processing mats, which requires a freehold.

Then there is no hope!! abandon ship!!!

BlackBrony

Marcet wrote: »

BlackBrony wrote: »

Marcet wrote: »

BlackBrony wrote: »

Marcet wrote: »

If you like to play alone, like a lot of us want, you can't expect to reach goals as high as a coordinated group of people. You just can't be that entitled.

If this was the case, nobody would need to work together and the game would be a boring solo-simulator, people would begin to isolate themselves more and more until the game is dead. Some things are cool because you won't have it. The value is so high. The game is more deep.

That's the point. If everything is for coordinated group of people there's nothing left. Husbandry, inns, all gone for casuals that don't have a strong guild. Static housing, gone.

You guys talk like this is the only thing in the game. I hope it's not just a housing simulator, right...??

You can't beat dungeons solo, you can't beat bosses solo, you can't invade a node solo, but when they tell you that you can't own physical space in the server just for you and yourself, you guys go crazy.

Dungeons? Are you telling me that guilds won't control them, ask for money to enter or forbid entrance? Bosses, you mean world bosses? A casual or small guild don't stand a chance for that.
Even farming mats. Hardcore guilds already have designated farmers, you think some casuals farming gonna make them rich?
What is the "exclusivity" in farming? None. Everyone can farm, therefore it holds no value compared to processing mats, which requires a freehold.

Then there is no hope!! abandon ship!!!

It is still a valid point. But you cannot provide reasons why is not

Veeshan

Neurath wrote: »

Wiki states Freeholds will be ample. This is no longer the case.

low thousands in ample imo. low thousands is more than enough to do what there designed to do, more than that would diminish there value making them not worth the risk to own them.

Noaani

Marcet wrote: »

If you like to play alone, like a lot of us want, you can't expect to reach goals as high as a coordinated group of people. You just can't be that entitled.

If this was the case, nobody would need to work together and the game would be a boring solo-simulator, people would begin to isolate themselves more and more until the game is dead. Some things are cool because you won't have it. The value is so high. The game is more deep.

In some respects you are right here, but in a way where you are totally missing the mark.

Look at a game like WoW, EQ or EQ2. People come to the game by themselves - especially when these games first came out.

They would play the game by themselves, discover groups and then get in to that, perhaps get a guild, and then maybe move on to raiding.

The key thing is, the reason they did all of this is because the base level of the game kept them playing said game by themselves.

To translate this to Ashes - imagine if there was a smaller, half acre freehold that a solo player was reasonably able to expect to get hold of. It can still be some work, but it is perfectly reasonable for them to assume that if they put a set amount of effort in, they will get one.

So, thye have a freehold, and they enjoy the gameplay that comes with it. Perhaps they want more of that same gameplay, but their small freehold is fully used.

The only way they can get more of that gameplay is to get together with other people and work towards it.

This is absolutely key for every aspect of an MMO. You NEED to have all content types available to essentially all players - but you are able to limit how much of that they have access to without working together with others. Then, if people decide they want more of that content, they know what they have to do to get it.

It is absolutely, 100% true that a solo player should not be able to achieve the same things as a guild. Absolutely true.

However, there also should be no content types that a guild has access to that a solo player doesn't also have access to. It is the level of that content that needs to change, not access to that content.

Freeholds are a content type.

Thus, the issue is that there is only one level of freehold. No matter what Intrepid do, as long as only one level of freehold exists, it will not work - either they make it limited as it seems to be now and solo or casual players miss out on a content type, or they make it more accessable to all in which case guilds and the more organized don't have a means to take it to the next level (though an argument could be made for upgrading buildings).

Songcaller

Veeshan wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

Wiki states Freeholds will be ample. This is no longer the case.

low thousands in ample imo. low thousands is more than enough to do what there designed to do, more than that would diminish there value making them not worth the risk to own them.

There is no risk to owning them. I don't know why you've put them on a pedestal. You can replace a lost freehold, do a quest to keep the freehold in a zoi switch with t3 or above. You can mitigate the risk of loss. You can ignore a siege and just let a freehold fall. The only people who see the risk are those who lack the competence to get more.

Solvryn

MageC wrote: »

Not the best at typing. German guy here.

I have been following the game ever since Kickstarter. First-time I feel the urge to actually make a thread forum post. What is up with all this whining about freeholds?! This is not Barbie MMO why am I having a Déjà vu with NEW WORLD ALPHA forums when all the same solo-player whing crybabies showed up and started asking to removal of PVP to Teleportation to easy questing and all the same crap that ended up killing the game?!

Happening all over again Intrepid better just ignore this people they want easy best house in the game playing SOLO?! what the actual f...... If I was Stephen I would just block all the accounts. They are the same that will leave the game after 3 months when League of Legends MMO comes out. We don't need them we need dedicate players. Ignore them. Everyone in guild is happy.

No more than Zerglords, at least.

As long as Intrepid remembers the average player will not be in massive guilds like some of the thousand man zergs / corpos that'll be playing this game we'll be ok.

BlackBrony

Solvryn wrote: »

MageC wrote: »

Not the best at typing. German guy here.

I have been following the game ever since Kickstarter. First-time I feel the urge to actually make a thread forum post. What is up with all this whining about freeholds?! This is not Barbie MMO why am I having a Déjà vu with NEW WORLD ALPHA forums when all the same solo-player whing crybabies showed up and started asking to removal of PVP to Teleportation to easy questing and all the same crap that ended up killing the game?!

Happening all over again Intrepid better just ignore this people they want easy best house in the game playing SOLO?! what the actual f...... If I was Stephen I would just block all the accounts. They are the same that will leave the game after 3 months when League of Legends MMO comes out. We don't need them we need dedicate players. Ignore them. Everyone in guild is happy.

No more than Zerglords, at least.

As long as Intrepid remembers the average player will not be in massive guilds like some of the thousand man zergs / corpos that'll be playing this game we'll be ok.

Are you insane? The average player WILL be in a zer guild! The best place to hide. Doesn't matter if you perform or not, because your performance is averaged.
There's a reason why you have "elite squads", which are the few, and then the army, which is basically everyone else.
Avarege player will be a npc in a large guild, get access to goodies and contribute some gold. It's the only logical solution.

iccer

Noaani wrote: »

Marcet wrote: »

If you like to play alone, like a lot of us want, you can't expect to reach goals as high as a coordinated group of people. You just can't be that entitled.

If this was the case, nobody would need to work together and the game would be a boring solo-simulator, people would begin to isolate themselves more and more until the game is dead. Some things are cool because you won't have it. The value is so high. The game is more deep.

Look at a game like WoW, EQ or EQ2. People come to the game by themselves - especially when these games first came out.

They would play the game by themselves, discover groups and then get in to that, perhaps get a guild, and then maybe move on to raiding.

The key thing is, the reason they did all of this is because the base level of the game kept them playing said game by themselves.

To translate this to Ashes - imagine if there was a smaller, half acre freehold that a solo player was reasonably able to expect to get hold of. It can still be some work, but it is perfectly reasonable for them to assume that if they put a set amount of effort in, they will get one.

So, thye have a freehold, and they enjoy the gameplay that comes with it. Perhaps they want more of that same gameplay, but their small freehold is fully used.

The only way they can get more of that gameplay is to get together with other people and work towards it.

This is absolutely key for every aspect of an MMO. You NEED to have all content types available to essentially all players - but you are able to limit how much of that they have access to without working together with others. Then, if people decide they want more of that content, they know what they have to do to get it.

It is absolutely, 100% true that a solo player should not be able to achieve the same things as a guild. Absolutely true.

However, there also should be no content types that a guild has access to that a solo player doesn't also have access to. It is the level of that content that needs to change, not access to that content.

Freeholds are a content type.

Thus, the issue is that there is only one level of freehold. No matter what Intrepid do, as long as only one level of freehold exists, it will not work - either they make it limited as it seems to be now and solo or casual players miss out on a content type, or they make it more accessable to all in which case guilds and the more organized don't have a means to take it to the next level (though an argument could be made for upgrading buildings).

100% spot on, and even though I agree with most of the stuff you say about Freeholds, this one takes the cake.

Instead of just gating the freeholds so hard, have "smaller level" Freeholds that maybe don't offer as much stuff (like top tier processing, businesses, size etc.). At least this way, every player that sets their goal to own a freehold can actually do so. And if they like it, then they can work towards owning a real big freehold like showcased, where you get a bunch of perks for owning it, like top tier processing, businesses, etc.

inb4 "I've yet to see a good point against the current system" blah blah blah.

Also I like the more natural way of getting into a guild. You play the game, experience the content, find players who also do the same content as you, you create a guild together, or you join their guild, then you do more stuff together.
Rather than guilds that just create the whole structure before the game even comes out, where they plan out everything to be as efficient as possible or whatever.

Solvryn

BlackBrony wrote: »

Solvryn wrote: »

MageC wrote: »

Not the best at typing. German guy here.

I have been following the game ever since Kickstarter. First-time I feel the urge to actually make a thread forum post. What is up with all this whining about freeholds?! This is not Barbie MMO why am I having a Déjà vu with NEW WORLD ALPHA forums when all the same solo-player whing crybabies showed up and started asking to removal of PVP to Teleportation to easy questing and all the same crap that ended up killing the game?!

Happening all over again Intrepid better just ignore this people they want easy best house in the game playing SOLO?! what the actual f...... If I was Stephen I would just block all the accounts. They are the same that will leave the game after 3 months when League of Legends MMO comes out. We don't need them we need dedicate players. Ignore them. Everyone in guild is happy.

No more than Zerglords, at least.

As long as Intrepid remembers the average player will not be in massive guilds like some of the thousand man zergs / corpos that'll be playing this game we'll be ok.

Are you insane? The average player WILL be in a zer guild! The best place to hide. Doesn't matter if you perform or not, because your performance is averaged.
There's a reason why you have "elite squads", which are the few, and then the army, which is basically everyone else.
Avarege player will be a npc in a large guild, get access to goodies and contribute some gold. It's the only logical solution.

They wont even bother playing.

The Ninefive gamer wont touch Ashes if it's doesn't respect their time.

Depraved

Noaani wrote: »

Marcet wrote: »

If you like to play alone, like a lot of us want, you can't expect to reach goals as high as a coordinated group of people. You just can't be that entitled.

If this was the case, nobody would need to work together and the game would be a boring solo-simulator, people would begin to isolate themselves more and more until the game is dead. Some things are cool because you won't have it. The value is so high. The game is more deep.

In some respects you are right here, but in a way where you are totally missing the mark.

Look at a game like WoW, EQ or EQ2. People come to the game by themselves - especially when these games first came out.

They would play the game by themselves, discover groups and then get in to that, perhaps get a guild, and then maybe move on to raiding.

The key thing is, the reason they did all of this is because the base level of the game kept them playing said game by themselves.

To translate this to Ashes - imagine if there was a smaller, half acre freehold that a solo player was reasonably able to expect to get hold of. It can still be some work, but it is perfectly reasonable for them to assume that if they put a set amount of effort in, they will get one.

So, thye have a freehold, and they enjoy the gameplay that comes with it. Perhaps they want more of that same gameplay, but their small freehold is fully used.

The only way they can get more of that gameplay is to get together with other people and work towards it.

This is absolutely key for every aspect of an MMO. You NEED to have all content types available to essentially all players - but you are able to limit how much of that they have access to without working together with others. Then, if people decide they want more of that content, they know what they have to do to get it.

It is absolutely, 100% true that a solo player should not be able to achieve the same things as a guild. Absolutely true.

However, there also should be no content types that a guild has access to that a solo player doesn't also have access to. It is the level of that content that needs to change, not access to that content.

Freeholds are a content type.

Thus, the issue is that there is only one level of freehold. No matter what Intrepid do, as long as only one level of freehold exists, it will not work - either they make it limited as it seems to be now and solo or casual players miss out on a content type, or they make it more accessable to all in which case guilds and the more organized don't have a means to take it to the next level (though an argument could be made for upgrading buildings).

and people complain about group finder in wow, and its a solo friendly option xDD

mcstackerson

Noaani wrote: »

Marcet wrote: »

If you like to play alone, like a lot of us want, you can't expect to reach goals as high as a coordinated group of people. You just can't be that entitled.

If this was the case, nobody would need to work together and the game would be a boring solo-simulator, people would begin to isolate themselves more and more until the game is dead. Some things are cool because you won't have it. The value is so high. The game is more deep.

In some respects you are right here, but in a way where you are totally missing the mark.

Look at a game like WoW, EQ or EQ2. People come to the game by themselves - especially when these games first came out.

They would play the game by themselves, discover groups and then get in to that, perhaps get a guild, and then maybe move on to raiding.

The key thing is, the reason they did all of this is because the base level of the game kept them playing said game by themselves.

To translate this to Ashes - imagine if there was a smaller, half acre freehold that a solo player was reasonably able to expect to get hold of. It can still be some work, but it is perfectly reasonable for them to assume that if they put a set amount of effort in, they will get one.

So, thye have a freehold, and they enjoy the gameplay that comes with it. Perhaps they want more of that same gameplay, but their small freehold is fully used.

The only way they can get more of that gameplay is to get together with other people and work towards it.

This is absolutely key for every aspect of an MMO. You NEED to have all content types available to essentially all players - but you are able to limit how much of that they have access to without working together with others. Then, if people decide they want more of that content, they know what they have to do to get it.

It is absolutely, 100% true that a solo player should not be able to achieve the same things as a guild. Absolutely true.

However, there also should be no content types that a guild has access to that a solo player doesn't also have access to. It is the level of that content that needs to change, not access to that content.

Freeholds are a content type.

Thus, the issue is that there is only one level of freehold. No matter what Intrepid do, as long as only one level of freehold exists, it will not work - either they make it limited as it seems to be now and solo or casual players miss out on a content type, or they make it more accessable to all in which case guilds and the more organized don't have a means to take it to the next level (though an argument could be made for upgrading buildings).

I disagree with the idea that all content types should be easily available to solo players. There should always be content for them to do but I think it's fine if some things are a little trickier for them to achieve solo. The game should be trying to push them to work with others. Working with others takes effort so it should be baited with something that's tasty.

Solo players can come to the game, explore, level up their character, join social organizations/religions, and help develop nodes. There should be plenty for them to do that doesn't require access to a freehold.

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