Opportunistic micro meta

Heard Steven mention the focus on a micro meta in his recent interview and wanted to throw some thoughts out about the gearing system since I've had doubts about it from the start.

I'll keep it short and sweet and just say that the micro meta is going to be a lot more enjoyable than the ever-so-popular macro metas, but to top it off it'd be 100x better with a gearing system that encourages opportunistic builds and playstyles.

What I mean is like Path of Exile. Considering you aren't playing late into the league and can buy everything you want for your build immediately, having 2 things regarding gear that PoE has greatly encourages you to build your character based on items you can get, until you're wealthy enough to get what you want.

These 2 things are:

Unique gear with unique(and often times exclusive) modifiers that greatly change how a class or skill or mechanic in the game works
Rares/Uncommons which roll with random modifiers, suffixes and pre-fixes(based on the slot the item goes into) with random numerical values based on the items level.

Since AoC primary gearing focus will be through crafting it would make sense for crafters to be able to actually handcraft these rares and uncommon pieces by rolling for new modifiers, culling off modifiers, rerolling numerical numbers on those modifiers, gilding armor for extra modifiers, blessing armor for extra modifiers, ect.

It would add another layer to what PoE never really did(due to the lack of a proper marketplace), which is custom made gear from crafters.

I also think uniques would drop partially from rarer mobs and bosses, maybe on the global table from all mobs in a dungeon as well, but they would also partially just be made by crafters from rare material drops.

I don't know what they're going to do with the gearing system, like I said I've had doubts for a while now, but anything they do that isn't this I'm pretty sure is going to be a massive missed opportunity. Look at how many people come back and play league for PoE each season, mostly just to %$#& around with that damn gearing system(and the gems/talents, but that's besides the point), it's that engrossing. Top tier gearing system

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Ludullu

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Recipes
Within a crafting recipe, there are dials (based on artisan specialization) that are used to customize crafted items, such as:[5]
Increasing one stat at the expense of another.[6]
Making an item more magical versus more physical.[6]

ChipsAhoy007 wrote: »

I don't know what they're going to do with the gearing system, like I said I've had doubts for a while now

So you're saying that you have no clue what you're talking about but you've already come up with some non-existent issue that you're worried about? Seems logical. Just like your rmt rants

PherPhur

NiKr wrote: »

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Recipes
Within a crafting recipe, there are dials (based on artisan specialization) that are used to customize crafted items, such as:[5]
Increasing one stat at the expense of another.[6]
Making an item more magical versus more physical.[6]

ChipsAhoy007 wrote: »

I don't know what they're going to do with the gearing system, like I said I've had doubts for a while now

So you're saying that you have no clue what you're talking about but you've already come up with some non-existent issue that you're worried about? Seems logical. Just like your rmt rants

What the heck are you talking about, I already knew it was going to be based off Starwars Galaxies crafting system.

I swear half the community members on here are higher than a kite.

Are you trying to tell me Starwars Galaxies has the same crafting system as PoE? Do you know how SWG crafting system works, cause I basically summarized the whole system in PoE.

The PoE system is much more enjoyable(SWG would still be chugging along if it had the exact same system, PoE combat isn't what people play for) and fitting for AoC on more levels. It's a lot more involved on the time/resource requirements and it really opens up the doors to custom crafts. 15k players on a server, with SWG system, with shallow gear stats means everything's just going to be readily available on the AH.

With PoE system you can either browse the AH hoping to get lucky or talk to a crafter and give a custom order, then he can message you and let you know if he manages to find something close when he's rolling.

Also how uniques work in PoE has nothing to do with SWG.

And my statements on RMT weren't debated by 90% of anyone who replied, I don't think you said anything but "intrepid will handle it". Right, by telling everyone in the community they're going to set up a honeypot lol. You're making yourself look like a jackass dude, just letting you know.

Ludullu

ChipsAhoy007 wrote: »

Are you trying to tell me Starwars Galaxies has the same crafting system as PoE? Do you know how SWG crafting system works, cause I basically summarized the whole system in PoE.

I haven't played either game. You said you want custom stats/effects on items that crafters would be able to add. Ashes seems to be going for exactly that.

If you want to get your point across better - do so w/o just saying "this game did this great, but I won't explain what they did". Not everyone has played every game out there.

PherPhur

NiKr wrote: »

ChipsAhoy007 wrote: »

Are you trying to tell me Starwars Galaxies has the same crafting system as PoE? Do you know how SWG crafting system works, cause I basically summarized the whole system in PoE.

I haven't played either game. You said you want custom stats/effects on items that crafters would be able to add. Ashes seems to be going for exactly that.

If you want to get your point across better - do so w/o just saying "this game did this great, but I won't explain what they did". Not everyone has played every game out there.

So you took my one statement about custom stats/effects out of context and proceeded to tell me I dont know what I'm talking about?

I literally summarized the entire PoE crafting system, at that rate if it sounds interesting people will go to the wiki. What, I let off like one part, implicit modifiers that come auto attached to a non magic item lol.

I don't know what you're smoking but I think you took too much, NIKr...

LordPax

Ignore my guy NiKr.

I like the idea, and agree, there should be a lot of diversity amongst builds (both skills and armor). I cant wait to see what crafting will look like once its in the final stages. Even something like carrying different weapons in inventory to have 'swaps' for different opponents. (magical vs physical, etc.)

Ludullu

ChipsAhoy007 wrote: »

So you took my one statement about custom stats/effects out of context and proceeded to tell me I dont know what I'm talking about?

ChipsAhoy007 wrote: »

I don't know what they're going to do with the gearing system

But they've already said what they're going to do with the gearing system. Especially when it comes to custom stat/effects.

PherPhur

NiKr wrote: »

ChipsAhoy007 wrote: »

So you took my one statement about custom stats/effects out of context and proceeded to tell me I dont know what I'm talking about?

ChipsAhoy007 wrote: »

I don't know what they're going to do with the gearing system

But they've already said what they're going to do with the gearing system. Especially when it comes to custom stat/effects.

Must have missed one of the livestreams. Last I seen on the wiki the stats/effects were simple/not filled in. It's been a few years though. They got a nice roster of modifiers, that's great.

"moving stat blocks around" is how they plan on doing the "custom" gear. This will work with recipe items that already come with pre-defined stats. Works kind of like what was it called in WoW, reforging?

But my point still stands on several aspects, and a new one. This type of "custom" gear will flood the AH in weeks and stay that way indefinitely. Anything you need just a click away, which is whatever, typical MMO.

But the gearing system similar to PoE where things can be actually hand crafted from the ground up, or middle up, or middle down then back up lol, is much more fitting, for a few reasons.

Crafting is going to be monotonous in AoC it looks like, same old grind duplicates to level up. And those aren't going to sell on the AH cause it'll be flooded fast due to the lack of variations. So they get vendored or like it says in the wiki "broken down for exclusive mats required to make higher tiered gear".

They said they did that to keep those low level recipes relevant. When the PoE approach already keeps low level crafting recipes relevant because of the sheer variation of modifiers they can be donned with, meaning a non flooded supply.

It also isn't nearly as monotonous because even at low levels a person is hoping for nice rolls and taking custom orders.

Also, here is an example of one unique PoE item that changes the way you build or play. What I would expect to be a legendary in AoC. It's not a modifier necessarily, not one you can roll for, or a skill, they are UNIQUE, exclusive usually to that one item.

Preferably I'd like to see a combination of the recipe and SWG "stat block moving" system mixed with PoE. They compliment each other in terms of AoC.

PherPhur

Stevens already made it clear that the endgame for AoC is going to be relatively much much different and the game sounds like it's really going to shine there. Well making crafting gear, hardcore crafters, you know those people that's all they're going to do, to make their profession fitting to that type of AoC endgame, it's going to need a heavy dose of RNG and variation. Heavy enough to fit with AoCs what looks like never ending endgame. Besides they've made it so that crafting seems like it's the pinnacle of the game.

Not quite as much as PoE(my lord that game goes way too hard...) maybe, but that's where recipes help(to give you a place to start rolling) and the SWG stat block moving system helps tone it down a little.

PoE has sockets and socket colors to deal with also on it's rolling, but AoC has a lot more relevant stat modifiers, so I'm guessing they sort of even out. It'll surely still need toned down.

Sengarden

This reminds me a bit of certain items in classic WoW that had entirely unconventional, text-required modifiers. Can’t think of any off the top of my head, but essentially, the items weren’t just stat sticks. They were usable by a variety of classes, and unique builds for certain encounters popped up by using them in ways that would normally be against the macro meta, but which performed well in knowledgeable hands under certain conditions.

Having unique items like this that fundamentally shift your gameplay style to a similar extent that augments will would be really entertaining, and making them rare / discoverable blueprints or “eureka” inspiration moments while crafting high level items would make them fun to hunt down and work towards.

PherPhur

Sengarden wrote: »

This reminds me a bit of certain items in classic WoW that had entirely unconventional, text-required modifiers. Can’t think of any off the top of my head, but essentially, the items weren’t just stat sticks. They were usable by a variety of classes, and unique builds for certain encounters popped up by using them in ways that would normally be against the macro meta, but which performed well in knowledgeable hands under certain conditions.

Having unique items like this that fundamentally shift your gameplay style to a similar extent that augments will would be really entertaining, and making them rare / discoverable blueprints or “eureka” inspiration moments while crafting high level items would make them fun to hunt down and work towards.

Ah yes, items like the offhand "skull of impending doom", or some engineer items. WoW went real lite on gear like that, and they were usually kind of freak objects no one could find a real great use for, but some were real neat. Very very situational usually, but neat.

PoE has it tuned to where you really don't want to be going in all uniques, just 1 or a couple to augment yourself in a certain way. They don't always come with all the standard stats you'll really want like extra life, resistances, damage, crit ect, and they change your character so much usually that you just don't really want to be wearing a ton.

I like the Idea of having some of them obtainable in weird ways like that, helps keep their supply limited and most importantly more fun to obtain. Something special for those hardcore crafters, I didn't even know they exist, but apparently there are people who don't want to do literally anything else in the game but focus on their craft.

And if a lot of them can be kept kind of rare and unpredictable to obtain then it adds to that "oh hey, i stumbled upon this, my whole builds getting temporarily shifted because of it". Some from random drops, some from eureka moments, some from treasure hunts, some from this some from that, variety is the spice of life.

They'd do well to get kept in that state as much as possible, once they become abundant and cheap they lose that "opportunistic build" aspect that comes with them. They'd be those one things you'd want to make Soulbound on Equip.

CROW3

I think it's interesting when items introduce new abilities (idk if this is planned) or augment existing abilities (planned), but not to the extent of POE / Diablo IV. I don't want to be put in a position where the potential of my class is bottlenecked behind the RNG of a legendary drop rate.

That said, if I can push toward a 'micro meta' by stacking a trait beyond a certain threshold that would be cool. For instance, having some bleed on my gear is nice icing, but if I stack bleed on EVERYTHING it turns me into a new leech bleed spec, that would be cool.

PherPhur

CROW3 wrote: »

I think it's interesting when items introduce new abilities (idk if this is planned) or augment existing abilities (planned), but not to the extent of POE / Diablo IV. I don't want to be put in a position where the potential of my class is bottlenecked behind the RNG of a legendary drop rate.

That said, if I can push toward a 'micro meta' by stacking a trait beyond a certain threshold that would be cool. For instance, having some bleed on my gear is nice icing, but if I stack bleed on EVERYTHING it turns me into a new leech bleed spec, that would be cool.

Right, created/tuned in a way that allows you to play a wonky build that's not necessarily some kind of macro meta, for novelty, but still quite viable.

The macro meta that might exist in AoC will be like the one in OW or Paladins where there will be this real low-key realization by hardcore players, where they play so much and can get a picture of what classes are being played the most, what classes and builds, and then they'll play off that with the rock/paper/scissors approach. In that case even those novelty builds would become meta. Hard to call that much of a meta considering the very slim edge it will give you like 53% of the time and being a harm 47% of the time, but hey.. idk what else to call it lol.

It's AoC though, there very well could be so much dang variables that the type of macro meta I'm talking about will be obfuscated too much.

But in regards to the micro meta Steven was referring to, the legendary items would be created/tuned in a way that they are for situational builds/gearsets. Some tucked away events, some special dungeons and a world boss that can be done without them, but when the boss scales up to it's higher abilities someone figures out something cool to do with those items/builds/group.

Liniker

I thought the game was already dead on arrival because of your friend in the philippines RMTing or something

Vyril

Liniker wrote: »

I thought the game was already dead on arrival because of your friend in the philippines RMTing or something

He forgot.

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