Attacking someone on their freehold seems strange.

If I’m playing a mini game to create and item on my freehold, I don’t want to be attacked and have it disrupt my craft. The invulnerability only in houses but not the rest of the freehold seems odd. I’d like to be invulnerable on my entire freehold.

Based on what I understand of the corruption system, you only gain corruption when the person you are attacking dies. Someone could just repeat non-lethal, light attacks to grief my craft.

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Sengarden

I really don't understand why the ability to be attacked on your freehold plot outside of pillaging time is crucial either. Theoretically, if I had a plot of land like that with all of my most valuable things in it, would I feel that a two foot tall, loosely strung together picket fence is sufficient for me to feel safe and confident going about my business in the confines of my investment? Absolutely not. I think it should take a great deal of effort, but if you can get the stone and whatever else is needed, you should be able to build a firm wall too high to jump over around the perimeter of your property with a locked iron gate.

If I'm paying as much for it as I expect to, I don't want randos walking around my private space in the world. Permissions for entry should be the same as building / gathering usage. Additionally, businesses should be able to be positioned with the entrance flush with and facing away from the wall and a back door only accessible by the owner.

Having your own space that's not actually your own space kind of defeats the purpose. If they don't have permission to touch my goods or use my buildings while I'm hiding in my home, why not just allow us to exclude them from the property (physically, and visually if desired) altogether? What's the difference?

Raven016

OlympusBurns wrote: »

Someone could just repeat non-lethal, light attacks to grief my craft.

Someone could just kill him.

Ayeveegaming1

If you have a freehold, most likely you have other people around you. As a crafter you also have fighting skills. If you cannot defend yourself shout out: "Call to arms". Let the people around you know and they will hunt the vermin down. Just be lucky thieves cant pickpocket your backpack, that could get costly.

Raven016

Sengarden wrote: »

I really don't understand why the ability to be attacked on your freehold plot outside of pillaging time is crucial either.

Thinking about your point of view, I asked myself what if we could hire guards.
And I see that it is possible...
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/NPC_guards
... but apparently it is important to not be present during peaceful times.

Maybe PvP will indeed be an important aspect.
If players can hunt you while you bring resources to your freehold, guards would defend you when you get close. Running from a freehold to another nearby freehold might not be desired.

Shabooey

Think Steven said the TTK is going to be on the longer side so you might be able to dip and get in your house before you die. I know that doesn't really help your main concern about why are they able to to attack me.

I could be completely wrong but are they allowing it so it disrupts your freehold and your node or something? Like a rival node come over to disrupt your crafters or something?

I like the wall idea, would be cool to see, could even get a little watch tower for a hired guard to chill in and blow a horn to alert you someone is coming or something.

Solvryn

Keep your door open, run into your house, let the doofus come inside. Lock him/her in there.

Then call your buddies to murder them.

Depraved

OlympusBurns wrote: »

If I’m playing a mini game to create and item on my freehold, I don’t want to be attacked and have it disrupt my craft. The invulnerability only in houses but not the rest of the freehold seems odd. I’d like to be invulnerable on my entire freehold.

Based on what I understand of the corruption system, you only gain corruption when the person you are attacking dies. Someone could just repeat non-lethal, light attacks to grief my craft.

when im walking from a to b, i really dont wanna have to take a detour because there is a freehold with buildings in the middle of my pathing. i dont want it disrupting my gameplay!

take your gear off if they attack you. they will stop to avoid 1 shotting you and gaining corruption.

Nerror

If they stick to the triple size of the freehold of 1.5 acres, that's a lot of land to be invulnerable on. I think it makes sense to limit it to the house. I understand the concern, but we don't even know if you being hit stops any minigame you might be doing actually, so if all they want to do is annoy and not kill, you can probably ignore them. You can't be CC'ed if you are a non-combatant.

I'll be very surprised if you are required to carry any materials on you on your freehold, other than the eggs and tomatoes you just harvested. I think all the stuff for the processing stations should come directly from storage, just like it does for the crafters in nodes. So you are unlikely to lose anything of real value, other than getting the XP debt.

With that said, I am a proponent of letting players build defensive structures and hire NPC guards for the freeholds, especially the new big 1.5 acre ones.

Sengarden

Raven016 wrote: »

Sengarden wrote: »

I really don't understand why the ability to be attacked on your freehold plot outside of pillaging time is crucial either.

Thinking about your point of view, I asked myself what if we could hire guards.
And I see that it is possible...
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/NPC_guards
... but apparently it is important to not be present during peaceful times.

Maybe PvP will indeed be an important aspect.
If players can hunt you while you bring resources to your freehold, guards would defend you when you get close. Running from a freehold to another nearby freehold might not be desired.

I guess my retort to this would be - why is any of that necessary during times of peace in the first place? Steven seems to be against griefing-type behavior, hence the corruption system. However, things aren't always so clear cut when you're out in the world adventuring, gathering, or fighting over rare bosses, so corruption allows some leeway there to actually engage with and compete with other players under serious circumstances. When you're on your own home plot, however, there's literally no point to anyone attacking you on your freehold other than to intimidate you into pausing your gameplay until a group of friends come to scare them off, or to murder you and loot your bags. They can't use your buildings or crafting tables, they can't loot your crops or interact with your livestock, there's no content for them there other than the type of combat which corruption seems designed to mitigate (PVP that isn't directly tied to competition over resources or content). That's not fighting over content, that's just griefing. Griefing which the game's current design actively prevents you from preventing by taking what would normally be perfectly understandable precautions, like building high walls and locked gates around your highly valuable territory.

One argument I can understand is that allowing this behavior opens the door for players of rival nodes to interrupt high level processors at their game and prevent them from building their economy. However, if this behavior remained consistent for a long enough period of time, I think it would eventually lead to a declaration of war, in which case players from those two nodes would be flagged as combatants, and the practice of taking groups of players around to harass each other's processors would probably be quite common. I'm not against this level of free will in the game, but I would prefer if it played out like this:

You have a freehold. You like your privacy, and don't like people wandering around in your property. You don't want to be attacked be griefers. You build a wall too high to jump/peek over and an iron gate. During peace time, no one can get in without your permission. After a while, a war is declared. This unlocks the ability for the enemy to take small scale siege weapons (bombs, sledgehammers, grappling hooks, etc) to your freehold and attempt a break-in in order to intimidate you and keep you from working on your craft. This would also unlock the ability for you, as the owner of the freehold, to replace one of your buildings with a watchtower housing up to three archers (hireable and fireable at will if you think you're at more or less risk day by day) that signal you of approaching enemies and fire bow shots at them (these can also be taken out with bombs or sledges once the walls have been breached), and hire NPC guards to help defend you from attackers. If the group is big enough, you'll still require allies to help defend your safety and economic progress.

Sengarden

Nerror wrote: »

If they stick to the triple size of the freehold of 1.5 acres, that's a lot of land to be invulnerable on. I think it makes sense to limit it to the house. I understand the concern, but we don't even know if you being hit stops any minigame you might be doing actually, so if all they want to do is annoy and not kill, you can probably ignore them. You can't be CC'ed if you are a non-combatant.

I'll be very surprised if you are required to carry any materials on you on your freehold, other than the eggs and tomatoes you just harvested. I think all the stuff for the processing stations should come directly from storage, just like it does for the crafters in nodes. So you are unlikely to lose anything of real value, other than getting the XP debt.

With that said, I am a proponent of letting players build defensive structures and hire NPC guards for the freeholds, especially the new big 1.5 acre ones.

Honestly, I was a bit confused when they said the plot of land shown in the June preview was 1.5 acres. Compared to the size of the player, that was a very, very far cry from 1.5 acres. An acre is the size of a football field without the end zones. So I guess they just have their own unit of measurement and are calling that an acre and a half? Either way, what was shown in the preview really was not that large, and walking around it wouldn't take more than an extra few seconds, even less if you're mounted. With the scarcity of them, I can't imagine you'll be weaving around the map like crazy just to dodge a few walls across many actual acres of in-game space.

You are correct in the sense that you shouldn't be carrying a bunch of valuable stuff on you while you're chilling on your FH, and the majority of your crafting mats should be drawn directly from proximity-based storage chests or the shed building. In which case, attacking people on their FHs will purely be to grief or interrupt economic progress, which I think should be reserved for war-time in the way I described at the end of my last comment.

Depraved

Sengarden wrote: »

Raven016 wrote: »

Sengarden wrote: »

I really don't understand why the ability to be attacked on your freehold plot outside of pillaging time is crucial either.

Thinking about your point of view, I asked myself what if we could hire guards.
And I see that it is possible...
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/NPC_guards
... but apparently it is important to not be present during peaceful times.

Maybe PvP will indeed be an important aspect.
If players can hunt you while you bring resources to your freehold, guards would defend you when you get close. Running from a freehold to another nearby freehold might not be desired.

I guess my retort to this would be - why is any of that necessary during times of peace in the first place? Steven seems to be against griefing-type behavior, hence the corruption system. However, things aren't always so clear cut when you're out in the world adventuring, gathering, or fighting over rare bosses, so corruption allows some leeway there to actually engage with and compete with other players under serious circumstances. When you're on your own home plot, however, there's literally no point to anyone attacking you on your freehold other than to intimidate you into pausing your gameplay until a group of friends come to scare them off, or to murder you and loot your bags. They can't use your buildings or crafting tables, they can't loot your crops or interact with your livestock, there's no content for them there other than the type of combat which corruption seems designed to mitigate (PVP that isn't directly tied to competition over resources or content). That's not fighting over content, that's just griefing. Griefing which the game's current design actively prevents you from preventing by taking what would normally be perfectly understandable precautions, like building high walls and locked gates around your highly valuable territory.

One argument I can understand is that allowing this behavior opens the door for players of rival nodes to interrupt high level processors at their game and prevent them from building their economy. However, if this behavior remained consistent for a long enough period of time, I think it would eventually lead to a declaration of war, in which case players from those two nodes would be flagged as combatants, and the practice of taking groups of players around to harass each other's processors would probably be quite common. I'm not against this level of free will in the game, but I would prefer if it played out like this:

You have a freehold. You like your privacy, and don't like people wandering around in your property. You don't want to be attacked be griefers. You build a wall too high to jump/peek over and an iron gate. During peace time, no one can get in without your permission. After a while, a war is declared. This unlocks the ability for the enemy to take small scale siege weapons (bombs, sledgehammers, grappling hooks, etc) to your freehold and attempt a break-in in order to intimidate you and keep you from working on your craft. This would also unlock the ability for you, as the owner of the freehold, to replace one of your buildings with a watchtower housing up to three archers (hireable and fireable at will if you think you're at more or less risk day by day) that signal you of approaching enemies and fire bow shots at them (these can also be taken out with bombs or sledges once the walls have been breached), and hire NPC guards to help defend you from attackers. If the group is big enough, you'll still require allies to help defend your safety and economic progress.

i think this is what is doesnt want. people burying themselves in one place and staying there, safe from everything. might as well add instances.

Sengarden

Depraved wrote: »

i think this is what is doesnt want. people burying themselves in one place and staying there, safe from everything. might as well add instances.

What about freehold design makes you think a player would stay there and do nothing else? You'll run out of materials to process eventually. Not really anything else to do there. It's just a momentary breath of fresh air on your own property, again, that you likely paid a boatload of money to own. Going from "I don't want to be griefed or disturbed on my property" to "might as well add instances" is a bit of a stretch lol

Depraved

Sengarden wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

i think this is what is doesnt want. people burying themselves in one place and staying there, safe from everything. might as well add instances.

What about freehold design makes you think a player would stay there and do nothing else? You'll run out of materials to process eventually. Not really anything else to do there. It's just a momentary breath of fresh air on your own property, again, that you likely paid a boatload of money to own. Going from "I don't want to be griefed or disturbed on my property" to "might as well add instances" is a bit of a stretch lol

if its just temporary, why not go inside your house?xD problem solved. you wont be bothered.

im not really against fh not being pvp zones, but jesus people wanna build an impenetrable fortress

Okeydoke

Raven016 wrote: »

Someone could just kill him.

lol. This is kinda one of those /thread comments to me. Maybe even.../forum, /game..../life? lol not really. But it's just funny to me the clash of cultures going on on this forum...things that are such a foreign concept to one group and vice versa.

Most of my time following this game I'm pretty sure it was the whole freehold was safe. Now it's just the house. In most games I've played it's just the house. But I was fine with it being the entire freehold, it was whatever. Especially when freeholds were going to be something that most people had.

Now we know freeholds will be more exclusive. With a tendency towards being owned by capable players, who will tend to need to work and maintain it as a group/family. Where the best processing materials come from and the only place they come from. And where they can set up some kind of defense, guards, etc. Of course these people should be contestable on their freehold.

I could also see Steven backtracking on it to how it was before too. Not a make or break issue by any means for me. But I'm pretty solidly in the house only camp.

PherPhur

Depraved wrote: »

im not really against fh not being pvp zones, but jesus people wanna build an impenetrable fortress

Well they sort of have one like you said, their house.

@Sengarden I don't think you understand the intended purpose of corruption. It, like most things in this game is designed to incentivize people to group up. The whole game is centered around multiplayer unlike any MMO that has ever been created that I'm aware of, it's a hardcore multiplayer game, an MMORPG.

Hang out with a group of people, like someone else said, if you got a freehold you probably won't be alone anyways a lot of the time. Just stick together.

With that+corruption+your own pvp skills+guards you can pretty much prevent PvP from mostly ever happening to you on your freehold aside from successful sieges I'm sure.

Fantmx

I imagine it is easier to block off just a house interior rather than thousands of large chunks of land as non pvp.

I also imagine having thousands of spits be pvp free would lead to very janky feeling pvp fights.

Boneshatter

I really don't understand the difference between giant walls around your freehold and just instancing it. The whole point is for it to be visible, open, and part of the world.

Dolyem

Solvryn wrote: »

Keep your door open, run into your house, let the doofus come inside. Lock him/her in there.

Then call your buddies to murder them.

this guy gets it

Endowed

Sounds fine to me. Its in the open world.
Prefer it not to make it a "safe zone" that disrupts the open world game design.
Just as long as they cant access your stuff in the FH, sans sieges.

Raven016

Okeydoke wrote: »

Raven016 wrote: »

Someone could just kill him.

lol. This is kinda one of those /thread comments to me. Maybe even.../forum, /game..../life? lol not really. But it's just funny to me the clash of cultures going on on this forum...things that are such a foreign concept to one group and vice versa.

Most of my time following this game I'm pretty sure it was the whole freehold was safe. Now it's just the house. In most games I've played it's just the house. But I was fine with it being the entire freehold, it was whatever. Especially when freeholds were going to be something that most people had.

Now we know freeholds will be more exclusive. With a tendency towards being owned by capable players, who will tend to need to work and maintain it as a group/family. Where the best processing materials come from and the only place they come from. And where they can set up some kind of defense, guards, etc. Of course these people should be contestable on their freehold.

I could also see Steven backtracking on it to how it was before too. Not a make or break issue by any means for me. But I'm pretty solidly in the house only camp.

Yes, feels very immersion breaking to me that you enter into the house and the game will show you a popup that you cannot attack. Such a cheap solution.

In the pinned thread my feedback was:

[*] What kind of customization do you want with your Freehold, or buildings on your Freehold?

I would like defense buildings too, to help survive during sieges.
Or add a game mechanic + lore which would explain how and why the freehold protection works. To have to do something in the node too, maybe in the temple or mage tower to ensure a magic shield.

The fire in house should not stay on forever. I hope it will have some purpose too.

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