AoC isn't as Niche as everyone thinks

So here's my take...

WoW Hardcore, Extraction Shooters, Survival, Classic WoW. We are definitely seeing a trend in what gamers want. Theme Park/Railroad content games are going the way of Guitar Hero.

Blizzard saw so much success with Classic and Hardcore they made them official.

Survival games,some if not most have come with hardcore rule sets,( dropping all gear, open PVP) Ark being one of the biggest had both of these. Now even Blizzard is jumping in although I suspect it will be a watered down for everyone experience.

Extraction shooters stemming from Tarkov's success(very hardcore style game) have started popping up everywhere.

If I know one thing it's when companies and investors start putting their money in to it you know the numbers are there in some fashion and they like what they see.

All I hear from everyone, Including Asmongold and other streamers is this is a niche game and it's not for everyone. Don While I don't disagree I think the degree of which they are implying is over stated, to the point that they think it might not be a very big game at all.

While it certainly won't be COD, I also think it's potential could be much higher then New World saw at its peak. Which would be considered a massive success.

I Understand that people don't want to get their hopes up and there's a lot of cynical people and deservedly so but if I am going to be real about it, the more I see the better it gets. It's like going from a narcissistic relationship to a healthy one, sometimes it just seems too good to be true but that's more about your past relationship then your current one. Just like that I think it's only fair we treat AoC and the devs with their fair shake. They have done nothing but be completely upfront and honest and currently in my eyes have the most integrity I have seen in a while and I have been around for a while.(I played UO and EQ1 a lot)

There is a lot to look forward to and don't let your past disappoints ruin your experience. Judge it on its own merits. Don't buy into the cynical majority and copy past the copium quotes. I might be disappointed, that's definitely a possibility but I am also ok with that. At least as far as I can tell they are putting their best foot forward and for now that's enough.

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Abarat

Noaani wrote: »

Steven Shariff is not a game developer.

I am starting to worry about your mental health. Steven Sharif owns a company developing a game... BY DEFINITION he is a game developer. You have (imo, bizarre) opinions about him, but he IS a game developer.

What qualifications do you have to speak so boldly about this? You are not a game developer... for sure.

This is not a fanboi post, this is OBJECTIVE fact.

@Noaani Honest question. what do you get from being here? You dont like steven, you dont believe in steven, you dont like the direction of the game, you dont have confidence in the studio.

What do you get out of spending all this time on this forum?

also, steven's last name only has one f at the end, not two.

its kinda like shareef, not sheriff

i am sure you already knew that... you were just... well, you are just smarter than the rest of us... we should not question your statements or opinions.

Abarat

@Noaani

you are usually so responsive. You ok?

Wellness check requested for @Noaani
Overbearing court systems can be so complex. They restrict things like video access. It might take some time.

Noaani

Abarat wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Steven Shariff is not a game developer.

I am starting to worry about your mental health. Steven Sharif owns a company developing a game...

The owner of a restaurant isnt automatically a chef.
The owner of a hair salon isnt automatically a hairdresser.
The owner of a television network isnt automatically an actor.
The owner of a bank is not automatically a teller.

Owning a business does not mean you suddenly are what ever that business does. It means you hire those people.

Noaani

Abarat wrote: »

Noaani

you are usually so responsive. You ok?

While I rarely have the ability to watch video and such, I also have periods where I can go up to a few days without even being able to look at a forum.

Dont panic though, I always come back. I know you'd miss me if I didn't.

Mag7spy

Noaani wrote: »

Abarat wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Steven Shariff is not a game developer.

I am starting to worry about your mental health. Steven Sharif owns a company developing a game...

The owner of a restaurant isnt automatically a chef.
The owner of a hair salon isnt automatically a hairdresser.
The owner of a television network isnt automatically an actor.
The owner of a bank is not automatically a teller.

Owning a business does not mean you suddenly are what ever that business does. It means you hire those people.

You seriously don't get it no one should need to explain it to you your take and your example are both garbage.

As usual you don't speak from experience, or us experience in how you speak, you goal on the forums is to prove your points by discrediting other people. Again without use of actual experience but with a mix of insults, passive aggressive stances, assumptions and demeaning people.

Fiddlez

This post has become so angry.

Ludullu

Mag7spy wrote: »

You seriously don't get it no one should need to explain it to you your take and your example are both garbage.

As usual you don't speak from experience, or us experience in how you speak, you goal on the forums is to prove your points by discrediting other people. Again without use of actual experience but with a mix of insults, passive aggressive stances, assumptions and demeaning people.

But how exactly is he wrong though? Steven is just the idea man who just so happened to have enough money to make his idea a reality. If I had that kind of money I'd build my own mmo too, cause I got a ton of ideas.

Hell, Steven is not even that good at running a company, judging by the missed timelines, failed promises and general delays. And Steven admitted as much, back when he said that they had to hire a proper producer so that the company would run better (which it has).

Unless we hear about Steven writing code or coming up with visual designs (as Margaret has with cosmetics) - I wouldn't really call him a game developer. He's definitely a gamer, definitely a rich dude with a successful business history and definitely has some ideas that I agree with. But none of those things make him a developer.

Dygz

Kinda reminds me of Curt Schilling and 38 Studios, but Steven manages his money much better than Curt.

I dunno that the label matters.
We're all rooting for him to be able to succesfully make the game he wants to make - and for that game to be successful enough to still be up and running 10 years after Launch.

Raven016

NiKr wrote: »

Hell, Steven is not even that good at running a company,

AAA game developers know how to run a company.

JamesSunderland

Are people seriously contending if Steven(Literally Creative Director) is or isn't a game developer?

https://www.careerexplorer.com/careers/video-game-creative-director/

If you wanna argue about his experience sure, fair game, but his title?
That's just ludicrous.

Raven016

JamesSunderland wrote: »

Are people seriously contending if Steven(Literally Creative Director) is or isn't a game developer?

https://www.careerexplorer.com/careers/video-game-creative-director/

If you wanna argue about his experience sure, fair game, but his title?
That's just ludicrous.

If Steven doesn't care about having many players then people will say he makes bad choices.

JamesSunderland

Raven016 wrote: »

If Steven doesn't care about having many players then people will say he makes bad choices.

That's certainly an assumption i've seem around, some people get really mad at the "not for everyone" concept.

iccer

JamesSunderland wrote: »

Are people seriously contending if Steven(Literally Creative Director) is or isn't a game developer?

https://www.careerexplorer.com/careers/video-game-creative-director/

If you wanna argue about his experience sure, fair game, but his title?
That's just ludicrous.

Mag7spy wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Abarat wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Steven Shariff is not a game developer.

I am starting to worry about your mental health. Steven Sharif owns a company developing a game...

The owner of a restaurant isnt automatically a chef.
The owner of a hair salon isnt automatically a hairdresser.
The owner of a television network isnt automatically an actor.
The owner of a bank is not automatically a teller.

Owning a business does not mean you suddenly are what ever that business does. It means you hire those people.

You seriously don't get it no one should need to explain it to you your take and your example are both garbage.

As usual you don't speak from experience, or us experience in how you speak, you goal on the forums is to prove your points by discrediting other people. Again without use of actual experience but with a mix of insults, passive aggressive stances, assumptions and demeaning people.

It all depends what you consider a game developer to be.

Steven isn't directly creating the game by writing the code, or by designing systems, assets, or anything by himself. He has hired people to do that though.

If you consider someone to be a game dev just because they're telling people what to design/create, then sure, Steven is a game dev. I wouldn't agree with that definition though.

He's just a guy with a vision, and his team of game devs, and other people, are the ones who are making that vision a reality. Now he obviously knows a lot of stuff about game development, as he's been at it for 7+ years at this point, but just because he knows stuff about it, doesn't mean that he knows how to do it.

I know a lot of stuff about cooking, it doesn't mean I'm a chef nor a great cook at that.

JamesSunderland

iccer wrote: »

It all depends what you consider a game developer to be.

Steven isn't directly creating the game by writing the code, or by designing systems, assets, or anything by himself. He has hired people to do that though.

If you consider someone to be a game dev just because they're telling people what to design/create, then sure, Steven is a game dev. I wouldn't agree with that definition though.

He's just a guy with a vision, and his team of game devs, and other people, are the ones who are making that vision a reality. Now he obviously knows a lot of stuff about game development, as he's been at it for 7+ years at this point, but just because he knows stuff about it, doesn't mean that he knows how to do it.

You see, the term "game developer" is quite a broad term that encompasses a multitude of different roles and functions in game development and not just coders/designers as you seems to think, but your are free to maintain your assumptions or disagree with that.

Guess what is also a direct role/fuction in game development? Creative Director, pretty much the brain guiding the body of the game development team alongside Lead Game Designer towards the game as whole.

Here, let me give you some examples of game developer fuctions:

https://www.coursera.org/articles/game-developer
Develop new ideas for game design
Translate visual ideas into code
Prototype, iterate, and polish gameplay
Collaborate with designers, producers, artists, and quality analysts
Monitor game stability across platforms
Review existing code and recommend improvements
Port games or elements from one system to another

Saw any that reminds you of the Creative Director role?

If you would've read the link you quoted, you would understand that he is not something superficial like "just a guy with a vision".

I know a lot of stuff about cooking, it doesn't mean I'm a chef nor a great cook at that.

That's just a basic false equivalence fallacy.

Raven016

JamesSunderland wrote: »

Raven016 wrote: »

If Steven doesn't care about having many players then people will say he makes bad choices.

That's certainly an assumption i've seem around, some people get really mad at the "not for everyone" concept.

I also seen the question if developers play their own game.
Imagine to have to play a game you do not like.

I want to see Steven getting a freehold after release...

iccer

JamesSunderland wrote: »

iccer wrote: »

It all depends what you consider a game developer to be.

Steven isn't directly creating the game by writing the code, or by designing systems, assets, or anything by himself. He has hired people to do that though.

If you consider someone to be a game dev just because they're telling people what to design/create, then sure, Steven is a game dev. I wouldn't agree with that definition though.

He's just a guy with a vision, and his team of game devs, and other people, are the ones who are making that vision a reality. Now he obviously knows a lot of stuff about game development, as he's been at it for 7+ years at this point, but just because he knows stuff about it, doesn't mean that he knows how to do it.

You see, the term "game developer" is quite a broad term that encompasses a multitude of different roles and functions in game development and not just coders/designers as you seems to think, but your are free to maintain your assumptions or disagree with that.

Guess what is also a direct role/fuction in game development? Creative Director, pretty much the brain guiding the body of the game development team alongside Lead Game Designer towards the game as whole.

Here, let me give you some examples of game developer fuctions:

https://www.coursera.org/articles/game-developer
Develop new ideas for game design
Translate visual ideas into code
Prototype, iterate, and polish gameplay
Collaborate with designers, producers, artists, and quality analysts
Monitor game stability across platforms
Review existing code and recommend improvements
Port games or elements from one system to another

Saw any that reminds you of the Creative Director role?

If you would've read the link you quoted, you would understand that he is not something superficial like "just a guy with a vision".

I know a lot of stuff about cooking, it doesn't mean I'm a chef nor a great cook at that.

That's just a basic false equivalence fallacy.

Game dev is someone that does most of those things, or at least a few.
- Develop new ideas for game design - I think Steven does that, but so do the devs. Can't really say he's a dev though.
- Translate visual ideas into code - Steven doesn't do that
- Prototype, iterate, and polish gameplay - Steven doesn't do that
- Collaborate with designers, producers, artists, and quality analysts - I mean I'm sure he does that, but that doesn't mean he's a dev just because he 'collaborates' with them.
- Monitor game stability across platforms - I'm sure that's done by a dedicated team of people, and not Steven. Though again, you could argue he does monitor it, because his team will provide him with information about it.
- Review existing code and recommend improvements - Again, not something he does.
- Port games or elements from one system to another - Again, he might suggest the devs add x to y, but he doesn't do it himself, he himself doesn't port anything.

Those bolded points are what someone would consider a dev to be. Other 2 are just extras that could be applied to anything.

He's a creative director, a game designer if you will. What he is not is a game dev, who builds the game (programming systems, coding in general, creating graphics, animations, etc.). His role is really important, and you can't just have a bunch of devs and expect a great game, you also need someone to lead them and direct them, which is why he's a creative DIRECTOR.

"A creative director is a person who makes high-level creative decisions; oversees the creation of creative assets such as advertisements, products, events, or logos; and directs & translates the creative peoples whom produce the end results." - Here's what wiki considers a creative director to be. He oversees the creation, but he doesn't create, he makes creative decisions, but he doesn't create. Devs are the creators of the game.

Btw this whole discussion is stupid and pointless.

Liniker

I just disengaged from the conversation because this is literally the definition of stupidity

this is the reason why intrepid should completely ignore or just delete 90% of the feedback they get

OP about AoC being niche and low IQ people arguing the game's creative director for 6 years and lead game designer for the past 2 years isn't game developer because he doesn't code

oh dear god

Mag7spy

NiKr wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

You seriously don't get it no one should need to explain it to you your take and your example are both garbage.

As usual you don't speak from experience, or us experience in how you speak, you goal on the forums is to prove your points by discrediting other people. Again without use of actual experience but with a mix of insults, passive aggressive stances, assumptions and demeaning people.

But how exactly is he wrong though? Steven is just the idea man who just so happened to have enough money to make his idea a reality. If I had that kind of money I'd build my own mmo too, cause I got a ton of ideas.

Hell, Steven is not even that good at running a company, judging by the missed timelines, failed promises and general delays. And Steven admitted as much, back when he said that they had to hire a proper producer so that the company would run better (which it has).

Unless we hear about Steven writing code or coming up with visual designs (as Margaret have with cosmetics) - I wouldn't really call him a game developer. He's definitely a gamer, definitely a rich dude with a successful business history and definitely has some ideas that I agree with. But none of those things make him a developer.

Are we going to argue bioware aren't developers then? Or any other studio that has issues....

Experience is gained over time and at this point it has been many years, like i said before the more difficult the project the more growth is going to happen through experience which again it has been years.

Missed deadlines o.O so bethesda, cd projekt red, FromSoftware(elden ring),ubisoft etc which have had delays are not competent developers now. Or are you suddenly seeing how things are in the open for the first time?

He is the creative director, you can simply argue him having like 5 years experience is not enough (or more so the start of his career in development)

People our here really want to insult, I can only imagine all the time he puts into the project...Are there more experience creative directors that take a slightly more active role in creating some elements in meetings and such (paint overs, reference, etc which I've had supervisors give me) sure, I also have directors that don't give that kind of art or reference and just direct things saying what they want and how to creative change or edit shots i work at for films.

The gate keeping going on here is insane, the sad part is noaani have been pushing this agenda. At the end of the day all those thoughts mean absolutely nothing, what matters is the game being made and presented.

Also the point about him having money is kind of stupid, if we are talking high quality looking games, someone always has money it is one of the most important things...It doesn't get made for free. The bigger the project the higher the cost and risk.

IF the project fails this is stuff yo can bring up or if there is a sign of it failing. Not before hand, again no point of trying to belittle people making the game on the forum. IF it looks good so far to you, the idea of it and the progress there is no reason to chat shit.

Mag7spy

Raven016 wrote: »

NiKr wrote: »

Hell, Steven is not even that good at running a company,

AAA game developers know how to run a company.

This guy gets it lmao. Everyone has issues, its not easy.

Depraved

guise dont be mean to steven plz >:

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