Ashes of Creation HAS NEVER PIVOTED from its CORE DESIGN!

Ayeveegaming1

Great video documenting this:

https://youtu.be/x38RLluHpBs

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

Fantmx

Abarat wrote: »

Steven should have looked at you and said, yup, sorry, no way your sorry ass will get one?

Yes or that it would be very unlikely.

Anyone can win the lottery. Not everyone does.

Ayeveegaming1

Noaani wrote: »

Ravicus wrote: »

You need to stop messing up quotes.

Sue me.

Well that's obviously an over reaction.

Quotes are really easy to not mess up, and keeping them in tact makes conversation easier. If you have no points to make, and don't want conversation to be easy, then perhaps resorting to making it harder is working for you.

But really, it just makes it look like you have no clue how to use a forum, which in turn discredits what ever you have to say. I mean, if you don't have the respect for what you want to say enough to use the forum properly, why should anyone else have any respect for what you have to say?

But hey, you do you my dude.

Dude, my dude, or whatever dude you are... I stopped replying to you in earnist because you only see your point of view. You never acknowledge anyone else and you past TL;DR Novels of text that would bore a librarian. You always got to get the last word which leads on to circular arguments. No matter what the topic of the thread, it always devolves down to you arguing with someone over things that have been hashed out ad nauseam. Give it a rest my dude, or dude, or whatever.

Noaani

Ravicus wrote: »

You always got to get the last word.

No I don't.

But hey, you got the quote right!

Noaani

Abarat wrote: »

Knowing what you know now, how would you have answered it differently. Freeholds are designed in such a way that ownership is not permanent. They will be lost to sieges, foreclosures, and just sales.

If I were asked that question with the information we have now, I would say that you may be able to get a freehold if you work for it, but that not everyone that wants one at the same time will be able to have one at the same time.

That is kind of a key part of the system - from the perspective of at least a number of people.

It is probable that the reason Steven didn't say it at the time is because it wasn't the specific plan at the time. It may have been a consideration, but it wasn't the plan.

Abarat

When did we all turn in to a bunch of karen's?

Steven looked me directly in the eye and told me one thing... five years later, when the game is actually being built, something changed... I am mad... not really mad, but am going to point it out repeatedly and apparently forever.

Folks, there are going to be far more changes as the game actually becomes code instead of ideas... as they run simulations, testing occurs.

Steven has changed what he calls "Transparent Development" too, as many of us have noted. I think I know why.

Noaani

Abarat wrote: »

When did we all turn in to a bunch of karen's?

Steven looked me directly in the eye and told me one thing... five years later, when the game is actually being built, something changed... I am mad.

It isn't about being a Karen - it is about the fact that the premise of this aspect of the game has changed. The only reason there is an argument or discussion on this is because some people have not understood that it is indeed a change.

No one is saying the game can't change, just that it has - and then people jump up and down claiming that it hasn't because fanboi-ism or something.

iccer

Abarat wrote: »

Fantmx wrote: »

Why I take this a little bit more personally isn't just the fact that Steven said in 2022, as the video points out, that anyone who put the effort in would get a freehold even though it would be a monumental achievement. It is that I specifically asked him in 2018 if I put in the work would I get to own a freehold and the answer was yes anyone that put in the work could. He again stated it would be a difficult achievement but ultimately yes we could.

What about what you learned makes his answer that anyone who puts in the effort can get a freehold disappointing or something to take personally?

Knowing what you know now, how would you have answered it differently. Freeholds are designed in such a way that ownership is not permanent. They will be lost to sieges, foreclosures, and just sales.

Steven should have looked at you and said, yup, sorry, no way your sorry ass will get one?

I think you heard what you wanted. ANYONE can get them... maybe not in a particular moment in time or easily, but i dont think his answer is direct conflict. I do think that they had to make changes in the plan for economy reasons? space in the world?, but that still does not mean that YOU cannot get one.

So let me just repeat this, again. In theory, anyone can own a freehold, anyone who meets the requirements. But the question wasn't whether they could do it in theory, it's whether they could actually do it in game.

One takes into the account only whether it's accessible to someone or not if they fulfill the requirements. The other takes into the account that, and everything else. The everything else part is the main concern. It's the rich guilds monopolizing freeholds, it's the fact that they would outbid a regular player easily, it's the fact that there aren't that many freeholds available (the scarcity)...

So even if you do put in the time and effort, you won't necessarily be able to get a Freehold.

Now you could argue that the meaning hasn't changed at all, depending on if he used the word "could" rather than "will". So when he was asked if anyone that put in the time will own a freehold, if he actually answered that: yes, you could own it, rather than yes, you will own it if you put in the time, then sure, nothing has changed.

Fantmx

Abarat wrote: »

When did we all turn in to a bunch of karen's?

Steven looked me directly in the eye and told me one thing... five years later, when the game is actually being built, something changed... I am mad.

Folks, there are going to be far more changes as the game actually becomes code instead of ideas... as they run simulations, testing occurs.

Steven has changed what he calls "Transparent Development" too, as many of us have noted. I think I know why.

My man, read and re-read.

I'm not mad. This is just a new challenge to overcome.

Now, I am all for change when change is needed. So they have seen something that told them to do this. And I will adjust. I will still play. And I will still try to own a freehold. But this part of the vision did change in my eyes. And unfortunately (watch any of the three interviews with Steven) all I have ever wanted to do in Ashes was own a freehold.

Again I am 100% a supporter of this game. But in this I will likely never completely agree. It is just a new challenge to overcome.

My comment was specific to the video that was posted that centered on freeholds, not the game at large.

I have said numerous times that the message has been consistent. I even put together a video to highlight just that when it came to the character creator.

I start to falter when that discussion comes to freeholds.

Dygz

Quarantine wrote: »

I'm sorry, I didn't mean that in a broad sweeping generalized statement that included everyone who was disappointed. I was meaning for people like myself who had made some assumptions based on limited info at the Kickstarter.
My assumption made me back the Kickstarter, but I can't even be mad. I met some amazing people along the way, and while this is not *my* dream game, it will still have some things that will be fun to do. I can see how your situation is a bit more frustrating, because you had expected worldwide corruption to make the game playable for you. I would also agree with you, because I noticed when they added that on. I think it made a lot of people happy, but it definitely was a change. Not sure why you keep getting gaslit.

Gotcha. I dunno what you're assumptions were, so...
But, I think there's still quite a few things generally that were not really assumptions - some things have changed since the Kickstarter and are no longer as we expected.
Overall, that's OK.
Some of the changes will be dealbreakers for some people. That's probably OK, too.
Some of the discussions get a bit frustrating when people ask, "Well, why are you just figuring this stuff out now?"

But, yeah, I have friends on the Forums who want me to play after launch.
The obsession on Risk v Reward is a turn-off for me, but...
Then I realized a few days ago that I can just do a Carebear Challenge and ignore all the Risk v Reward:
Uncover the entire map with 0 kills, minimum Level(s), starter gear and no Inventory.
Then I don't have to be concerned about death penalties. Other players can't really interrupt my progression.
So... I can socialize with other players and ignore the PvP.
I call it The Ultimate Carebear Challenge.

DrDefault

Liniker wrote: »

You don't, that's about it.

Great counter argument, hahaha.

Liniker wrote: »

but did you just included NW as a PVP / Hardcore MMO? BDO? oh god... this is the moment I realise I've been wasting my time.

Someone can't read apparently.
>hardcore/pvp games
New Worlds alpha was a hardcore pvp game. Full loot dropping pvp game.

Liniker wrote: »

I'm amazed how you can make this statement based on a system you don't fully understand because intrepid literally only told us the overall concept - not to mention the lack of information about nodes, crafting, economy and everything else

>Ashes will be different man! The systems man!!
Hahahaha, no system is too complex for power house alliances to be able to dominate. You're just being delusional at this point.

Liniker wrote: »

it's really hilarious to see someone that actually thinks he just outsmarted a team of developers with his little to No knowledge on the systems they are designing - you should apply for lead game designer and help them make a good game ahah

Damn, that sunk-cost fallacy really has you coming across like a child throwing a tantrum. You can't counter-argue anything so you shift the argument from what I said and make it about me instead. Hahahaha

Liniker

DrDefault wrote: »

Damn, that sunk-cost fallacy really has you coming across like a child throwing a tantrum. You can't counter-argue anything so you shift the argument from what I said and make it about me instead. Hahahaha

I will counter-argue if you take this test and post the results here

https://www.mensa.org/public/mensa-iq-challenge

Dolyem

Fantmx wrote: »

I have said numerous times that the message has been consistent. I even put together a video to highlight just that when it came to the character creator.

I start to falter when that discussion comes to freeholds.

Why I take this a little bit more personally isn't just the fact that Steven said in 2022, as the video points out, that anyone who put the effort in would get a freehold even though it would be a monumental achievement. It is that I specifically asked him in 2018 if I put in the work would I get to own a freehold and the answer was yes anyone that put in the work could. He again stated it would be a difficult achievement but ultimately yes we could. This question was also phrased as a single player experience.

So we had 5 years of being told anyone that put in the effort and work could obtain a freehold and then this year we are told it would only around 10% and likely the only way a casual time player could obtain one was through trying to make enough gold to buy one or possibly earn enough alternative currency but we would still be bidding against others with likely more time and money.

Now, I am all for change when change is needed. So they have seen something that told them to do this. And I will adjust. I will still play. And I will still try to own a freehold. But this part of the vision did change in my eyes. And unfortunately (watch any of the three interviews with Steven) all I have ever wanted to do in Ashes was own a freehold.

I will also point out as a side note that the pillars cited in the wiki and on the website that were cited in the video are different from those that are in the Kickstarter video. I point this out to Lex and now there is a historical section in the wiki. The article that gets cited was from March 2017 while the Kickstarter video is May of 2017. I think this change was made to make it easier for the general public to understand but it removed risk vs reward as a pillar and introduced economy as a pillar among a few of changes.

Again I am 100% a supporter of this game. But in this I will likely never completely agree. It is just a new challenge to overcome.

To be fair, it was never clarified what the work would be. You can still get one if you put the work in

DrDefault

Liniker wrote: »

DrDefault wrote: »

Damn, that sunk-cost fallacy really has you coming across like a child throwing a tantrum. You can't counter-argue anything so you shift the argument from what I said and make it about me instead. Hahahaha

I will counter-argue if you take this test and post the results here

https://www.mensa.org/public/mensa-iq-challenge

Damn, lil bro really tilted just cuz he can't articulate an argument. It's alright man, maybe invest in that higher education so you can figure out how to argue with someone beyond ad hominem fallacies. Till then, gitgud.

Dygz

Dolyem wrote: »

To be fair, it was never clarified what the work would be. You can still get one if you put the work in

To be fair, it still sounds like in the earlier videos he was saying that solo players will eventually be able to get a Farm/Freehold, it just might take them longer than players with a family or in a guild.
More recently he has said that Freeholds are not a participation trophy. Everyone doesn't just get a Freehold eventually for playing the game.
Scarcity motivates PvP.

Dolyem

Dygz wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

To be fair, it was never clarified what the work would be. You can still get one if you put the work in

To be fair, it still sounds like in the earlier videos he was saying that solo players will eventually be able to get a Farm/Freehold, it just might take them longer than players with a family or in a guild.

An assumption isn't a confirmation

Dygz

Confirmation of what?

Dolyem

Dygz wrote: »

Confirmation of what?

Of what the work would be in order to aquire, and whether or not it's able to be done by solo players or not

Toothpaste

Dygz wrote: »

Scarcity motivates PvP.

I think that is a narrow minded way of thinking. Scarcity motivates innovation. You don’t have to physically fight other players over resources. Better gathering techniques or better routes can lead you to more resources more quickly than other players. Not everyone’s first instinct in a game is to attack other players.

Dygz

Dolyem wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

Confirmation of what?

Of what the work would be in order to aquire, and whether or not it's able to be done by solo players or not

I mean... Fantm specifically asked Steven if it could be done by solo players.
Steven said it could be done solo, but it would be easier/quicker with help from a Family or a Guild.
More recently, Steven said that it's not something everyone eventually gets just by spending a lot of time. It's not a participation trophy.

Not that it matters.
"Core design" is just going to end up being semantics.
Some of the changes Steven has introduced will be dealbreakers for some people.
And those people won't care whether it's considered to be a "core design". They will just care that it's enough of a change to be a dealbreaker for them.

Dolyem

I'd say a solo play could do it, it would just be a longgg time saving up and picking one up after a siege or what not. Definitely not the ideal solo experience but with enough dedication I could see it. Honestly may be a fun goal to do now that I'm thinking of it

Child Item