Noaani wrote: » I have well over a decade of experience in software development, and multiple decades of product development in other fields. Games aren't such a unique product that the basics don't hold true.
Abarat wrote: » Noaani wrote: » I have well over a decade of experience in software development, and multiple decades of product development in other fields. Games aren't such a unique product that the basics don't hold true. Has one single project you have worked on had a user driven economy? Be honest.
Azherae wrote: » Abarat wrote: » Noaani wrote: » I have well over a decade of experience in software development, and multiple decades of product development in other fields. Games aren't such a unique product that the basics don't hold true. Has one single project you have worked on had a user driven economy? Be honest. There we go @Depraved, this is being handled. Go team!
Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Liniker wrote: » Noaani wrote: » In reality, the biggest issue is that Intrepid is developing the game without taking that bulk perspective in to account first, developing the game for them, fully fleshing out that gameplay experience, and then adding to it for top end players. Basically, Intrepid are trying to build the roof before they build the foundation. So, what game development experience do you have? I read the shit you say like I'm listening to a drunk hillbilly at a bar sharing his opinion on politics or aliens, at least it's entertaining I will give you that. I have well over a decade of experience in software development, and multiple decades of product development in other fields. Games aren't such a unique product that the basics don't hold true. The problem for you is - as soon as you read that post, you knew immediately that I was right. manager != programmer && manager != designer This is the first mention of the term 'manager' on this page. Did you mean something else? he has stated before that he is a manager I'll save Noaani the trouble then... Assuming Noaani is a manager right now has nothing to do with those two things. I've been all three at the same time professionally, I'm sometimes all three now. So you can probably just drop this line of... whatever it is, and go back to finding a way to discredit the thing he actually said.
Depraved wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Liniker wrote: » Noaani wrote: » In reality, the biggest issue is that Intrepid is developing the game without taking that bulk perspective in to account first, developing the game for them, fully fleshing out that gameplay experience, and then adding to it for top end players. Basically, Intrepid are trying to build the roof before they build the foundation. So, what game development experience do you have? I read the shit you say like I'm listening to a drunk hillbilly at a bar sharing his opinion on politics or aliens, at least it's entertaining I will give you that. I have well over a decade of experience in software development, and multiple decades of product development in other fields. Games aren't such a unique product that the basics don't hold true. The problem for you is - as soon as you read that post, you knew immediately that I was right. manager != programmer && manager != designer This is the first mention of the term 'manager' on this page. Did you mean something else? he has stated before that he is a manager
Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Liniker wrote: » Noaani wrote: » In reality, the biggest issue is that Intrepid is developing the game without taking that bulk perspective in to account first, developing the game for them, fully fleshing out that gameplay experience, and then adding to it for top end players. Basically, Intrepid are trying to build the roof before they build the foundation. So, what game development experience do you have? I read the shit you say like I'm listening to a drunk hillbilly at a bar sharing his opinion on politics or aliens, at least it's entertaining I will give you that. I have well over a decade of experience in software development, and multiple decades of product development in other fields. Games aren't such a unique product that the basics don't hold true. The problem for you is - as soon as you read that post, you knew immediately that I was right. manager != programmer && manager != designer This is the first mention of the term 'manager' on this page. Did you mean something else?
Depraved wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Liniker wrote: » Noaani wrote: » In reality, the biggest issue is that Intrepid is developing the game without taking that bulk perspective in to account first, developing the game for them, fully fleshing out that gameplay experience, and then adding to it for top end players. Basically, Intrepid are trying to build the roof before they build the foundation. So, what game development experience do you have? I read the shit you say like I'm listening to a drunk hillbilly at a bar sharing his opinion on politics or aliens, at least it's entertaining I will give you that. I have well over a decade of experience in software development, and multiple decades of product development in other fields. Games aren't such a unique product that the basics don't hold true. The problem for you is - as soon as you read that post, you knew immediately that I was right. manager != programmer && manager != designer
Noaani wrote: » Liniker wrote: » Noaani wrote: » In reality, the biggest issue is that Intrepid is developing the game without taking that bulk perspective in to account first, developing the game for them, fully fleshing out that gameplay experience, and then adding to it for top end players. Basically, Intrepid are trying to build the roof before they build the foundation. So, what game development experience do you have? I read the shit you say like I'm listening to a drunk hillbilly at a bar sharing his opinion on politics or aliens, at least it's entertaining I will give you that. I have well over a decade of experience in software development, and multiple decades of product development in other fields. Games aren't such a unique product that the basics don't hold true. The problem for you is - as soon as you read that post, you knew immediately that I was right.
Liniker wrote: » Noaani wrote: » In reality, the biggest issue is that Intrepid is developing the game without taking that bulk perspective in to account first, developing the game for them, fully fleshing out that gameplay experience, and then adding to it for top end players. Basically, Intrepid are trying to build the roof before they build the foundation. So, what game development experience do you have? I read the shit you say like I'm listening to a drunk hillbilly at a bar sharing his opinion on politics or aliens, at least it's entertaining I will give you that.
Noaani wrote: » In reality, the biggest issue is that Intrepid is developing the game without taking that bulk perspective in to account first, developing the game for them, fully fleshing out that gameplay experience, and then adding to it for top end players. Basically, Intrepid are trying to build the roof before they build the foundation.
Depraved wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Liniker wrote: » Noaani wrote: » In reality, the biggest issue is that Intrepid is developing the game without taking that bulk perspective in to account first, developing the game for them, fully fleshing out that gameplay experience, and then adding to it for top end players. Basically, Intrepid are trying to build the roof before they build the foundation. So, what game development experience do you have? I read the shit you say like I'm listening to a drunk hillbilly at a bar sharing his opinion on politics or aliens, at least it's entertaining I will give you that. I have well over a decade of experience in software development, and multiple decades of product development in other fields. Games aren't such a unique product that the basics don't hold true. The problem for you is - as soon as you read that post, you knew immediately that I was right. manager != programmer && manager != designer This is the first mention of the term 'manager' on this page. Did you mean something else? he has stated before that he is a manager I'll save Noaani the trouble then... Assuming Noaani is a manager right now has nothing to do with those two things. I've been all three at the same time professionally, I'm sometimes all three now. So you can probably just drop this line of... whatever it is, and go back to finding a way to discredit the thing he actually said. well, he criticized Steven saying that Steven isn't a game developer because Steven hasn't designed a game or written code, so he doesn't have any experience developing games because he is in a managerial position. however, nooani experience in a managerial position, without writing code or designing counts as developing software? how does that make sense? those two things are both truth or both false, but can't have 1 be truth and 1 be false since they are the same thing.
Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Liniker wrote: » Noaani wrote: » In reality, the biggest issue is that Intrepid is developing the game without taking that bulk perspective in to account first, developing the game for them, fully fleshing out that gameplay experience, and then adding to it for top end players. Basically, Intrepid are trying to build the roof before they build the foundation. So, what game development experience do you have? I read the shit you say like I'm listening to a drunk hillbilly at a bar sharing his opinion on politics or aliens, at least it's entertaining I will give you that. I have well over a decade of experience in software development, and multiple decades of product development in other fields. Games aren't such a unique product that the basics don't hold true. The problem for you is - as soon as you read that post, you knew immediately that I was right. manager != programmer && manager != designer This is the first mention of the term 'manager' on this page. Did you mean something else? he has stated before that he is a manager I'll save Noaani the trouble then... Assuming Noaani is a manager right now has nothing to do with those two things. I've been all three at the same time professionally, I'm sometimes all three now. So you can probably just drop this line of... whatever it is, and go back to finding a way to discredit the thing he actually said. well, he criticized Steven saying that Steven isn't a game developer because Steven hasn't designed a game or written code, so he doesn't have any experience developing games because he is in a managerial position. however, nooani experience in a managerial position, without writing code or designing counts as developing software? how does that make sense? those two things are both truth or both false, but can't have 1 be truth and 1 be false since they are the same thing. They can be separate things, is my point. Sometimes I'm a Project Manager, sometimes I'm a Developer, sometimes I'm an Engineer, sometimes I'm a Designer. So you're kinda assuming that Noaani hasn't written code or designed games because of something he said about something else. It'd be like if you said 'You don't know how to write game economy transaction code just because you're a stock market investor!' to me. I know how to do both things. That's why you do what Abarat does and ask 'have you done this thing that I will use as the metric for if you know what you are talking about or not?' Otherwise you'll end up arguing with Noaani pointlessly over definitions and no one wants that, right?
Depraved wrote: » read uncle bob book series and you will get what i mean :P
Depraved wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Liniker wrote: » Noaani wrote: » In reality, the biggest issue is that Intrepid is developing the game without taking that bulk perspective in to account first, developing the game for them, fully fleshing out that gameplay experience, and then adding to it for top end players. Basically, Intrepid are trying to build the roof before they build the foundation. So, what game development experience do you have? I read the shit you say like I'm listening to a drunk hillbilly at a bar sharing his opinion on politics or aliens, at least it's entertaining I will give you that. I have well over a decade of experience in software development, and multiple decades of product development in other fields. Games aren't such a unique product that the basics don't hold true. The problem for you is - as soon as you read that post, you knew immediately that I was right. manager != programmer && manager != designer This is the first mention of the term 'manager' on this page. Did you mean something else? he has stated before that he is a manager I'll save Noaani the trouble then... Assuming Noaani is a manager right now has nothing to do with those two things. I've been all three at the same time professionally, I'm sometimes all three now. So you can probably just drop this line of... whatever it is, and go back to finding a way to discredit the thing he actually said. well, he criticized Steven saying that Steven isn't a game developer because Steven hasn't designed a game or written code, so he doesn't have any experience developing games because he is in a managerial position. however, nooani experience in a managerial position, without writing code or designing counts as developing software? how does that make sense? those two things are both truth or both false, but can't have 1 be truth and 1 be false since they are the same thing. They can be separate things, is my point. Sometimes I'm a Project Manager, sometimes I'm a Developer, sometimes I'm an Engineer, sometimes I'm a Designer. So you're kinda assuming that Noaani hasn't written code or designed games because of something he said about something else. It'd be like if you said 'You don't know how to write game economy transaction code just because you're a stock market investor!' to me. I know how to do both things. That's why you do what Abarat does and ask 'have you done this thing that I will use as the metric for if you know what you are talking about or not?' Otherwise you'll end up arguing with Noaani pointlessly over definitions and no one wants that, right? not pointesly, definitions are important, specially objective definitions. people here often say "define this as that" and it isnt objective, tis only their subjective truth. so how can you expect to talk about somethign and analyze wether its right or wrong when people dont even know what is the concept they are talking about. as an example, go watch those clips of people asking the feminists what is a woman when they try to talk about women and then they freeze or cant define it xDDD thats literally whats been going on here this past month. also, i might be wrong, but from what nooani has said, he hasn't designed or built software, he has just supervised people who has without actually doing it himself. and yes, you can be a programmer, then become a manager and supervise other programmers, but at least you were a programmer first. it isnt the same as managing programmers without never being a programmer. read uncle bob book series and you will get what i mean :P
Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Liniker wrote: » Noaani wrote: » In reality, the biggest issue is that Intrepid is developing the game without taking that bulk perspective in to account first, developing the game for them, fully fleshing out that gameplay experience, and then adding to it for top end players. Basically, Intrepid are trying to build the roof before they build the foundation. So, what game development experience do you have? I read the shit you say like I'm listening to a drunk hillbilly at a bar sharing his opinion on politics or aliens, at least it's entertaining I will give you that. I have well over a decade of experience in software development, and multiple decades of product development in other fields. Games aren't such a unique product that the basics don't hold true. The problem for you is - as soon as you read that post, you knew immediately that I was right. manager != programmer && manager != designer This is the first mention of the term 'manager' on this page. Did you mean something else? he has stated before that he is a manager I'll save Noaani the trouble then... Assuming Noaani is a manager right now has nothing to do with those two things. I've been all three at the same time professionally, I'm sometimes all three now. So you can probably just drop this line of... whatever it is, and go back to finding a way to discredit the thing he actually said. well, he criticized Steven saying that Steven isn't a game developer because Steven hasn't designed a game or written code, so he doesn't have any experience developing games because he is in a managerial position. however, nooani experience in a managerial position, without writing code or designing counts as developing software? how does that make sense? those two things are both truth or both false, but can't have 1 be truth and 1 be false since they are the same thing. They can be separate things, is my point. Sometimes I'm a Project Manager, sometimes I'm a Developer, sometimes I'm an Engineer, sometimes I'm a Designer. So you're kinda assuming that Noaani hasn't written code or designed games because of something he said about something else. It'd be like if you said 'You don't know how to write game economy transaction code just because you're a stock market investor!' to me. I know how to do both things. That's why you do what Abarat does and ask 'have you done this thing that I will use as the metric for if you know what you are talking about or not?' Otherwise you'll end up arguing with Noaani pointlessly over definitions and no one wants that, right? not pointesly, definitions are important, specially objective definitions. people here often say "define this as that" and it isnt objective, tis only their subjective truth. so how can you expect to talk about somethign and analyze wether its right or wrong when people dont even know what is the concept they are talking about. as an example, go watch those clips of people asking the feminists what is a woman when they try to talk about women and then they freeze or cant define it xDDD thats literally whats been going on here this past month. also, i might be wrong, but from what nooani has said, he hasn't designed or built software, he has just supervised people who has without actually doing it himself. and yes, you can be a programmer, then become a manager and supervise other programmers, but at least you were a programmer first. it isnt the same as managing programmers without never being a programmer. read uncle bob book series and you will get what i mean :P Yes, I'm aware that the discourse type on the forums has shifted even more in that direction lately. Hopefully Vaknar and Roshen don't have to actually parse it all without some sort of tool. I'm just telling you that in this specific case, you're the one starting the mess. But at least we're at the point where Noaani theoretically could just say 'no I have designed/built software' and that would resolve your assert statement to False, right?
Depraved wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Liniker wrote: » Noaani wrote: » In reality, the biggest issue is that Intrepid is developing the game without taking that bulk perspective in to account first, developing the game for them, fully fleshing out that gameplay experience, and then adding to it for top end players. Basically, Intrepid are trying to build the roof before they build the foundation. So, what game development experience do you have? I read the shit you say like I'm listening to a drunk hillbilly at a bar sharing his opinion on politics or aliens, at least it's entertaining I will give you that. I have well over a decade of experience in software development, and multiple decades of product development in other fields. Games aren't such a unique product that the basics don't hold true. The problem for you is - as soon as you read that post, you knew immediately that I was right. manager != programmer && manager != designer This is the first mention of the term 'manager' on this page. Did you mean something else? he has stated before that he is a manager I'll save Noaani the trouble then... Assuming Noaani is a manager right now has nothing to do with those two things. I've been all three at the same time professionally, I'm sometimes all three now. So you can probably just drop this line of... whatever it is, and go back to finding a way to discredit the thing he actually said. well, he criticized Steven saying that Steven isn't a game developer because Steven hasn't designed a game or written code, so he doesn't have any experience developing games because he is in a managerial position. however, nooani experience in a managerial position, without writing code or designing counts as developing software? how does that make sense? those two things are both truth or both false, but can't have 1 be truth and 1 be false since they are the same thing. They can be separate things, is my point. Sometimes I'm a Project Manager, sometimes I'm a Developer, sometimes I'm an Engineer, sometimes I'm a Designer. So you're kinda assuming that Noaani hasn't written code or designed games because of something he said about something else. It'd be like if you said 'You don't know how to write game economy transaction code just because you're a stock market investor!' to me. I know how to do both things. That's why you do what Abarat does and ask 'have you done this thing that I will use as the metric for if you know what you are talking about or not?' Otherwise you'll end up arguing with Noaani pointlessly over definitions and no one wants that, right? not pointesly, definitions are important, specially objective definitions. people here often say "define this as that" and it isnt objective, tis only their subjective truth. so how can you expect to talk about somethign and analyze wether its right or wrong when people dont even know what is the concept they are talking about. as an example, go watch those clips of people asking the feminists what is a woman when they try to talk about women and then they freeze or cant define it xDDD thats literally whats been going on here this past month. also, i might be wrong, but from what nooani has said, he hasn't designed or built software, he has just supervised people who has without actually doing it himself. and yes, you can be a programmer, then become a manager and supervise other programmers, but at least you were a programmer first. it isnt the same as managing programmers without never being a programmer. read uncle bob book series and you will get what i mean :P Yes, I'm aware that the discourse type on the forums has shifted even more in that direction lately. Hopefully Vaknar and Roshen don't have to actually parse it all without some sort of tool. I'm just telling you that in this specific case, you're the one starting the mess. But at least we're at the point where Noaani theoretically could just say 'no I have designed/built software' and that would resolve your assert statement to False, right? its irrelevant to me if he has or hasnt. but from the things he says, it seems that he hasnt. my problem is, and this is a problem i have with many of the things being postd lately, is that people say this X thing should be like this or else its a bad design. people who never designed anything and cant define X. like ive said many times, its the equivalent of telling a doctor what medicine or treatment to give you, or telling a lawyer how to build your case, or a chef how to cook. you basically go to a doctor and tell him whats wrong, then you let him do his work.
Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Liniker wrote: » Noaani wrote: » In reality, the biggest issue is that Intrepid is developing the game without taking that bulk perspective in to account first, developing the game for them, fully fleshing out that gameplay experience, and then adding to it for top end players. Basically, Intrepid are trying to build the roof before they build the foundation. So, what game development experience do you have? I read the shit you say like I'm listening to a drunk hillbilly at a bar sharing his opinion on politics or aliens, at least it's entertaining I will give you that. I have well over a decade of experience in software development, and multiple decades of product development in other fields. Games aren't such a unique product that the basics don't hold true. The problem for you is - as soon as you read that post, you knew immediately that I was right. manager != programmer && manager != designer This is the first mention of the term 'manager' on this page. Did you mean something else? he has stated before that he is a manager I'll save Noaani the trouble then... Assuming Noaani is a manager right now has nothing to do with those two things. I've been all three at the same time professionally, I'm sometimes all three now. So you can probably just drop this line of... whatever it is, and go back to finding a way to discredit the thing he actually said. well, he criticized Steven saying that Steven isn't a game developer because Steven hasn't designed a game or written code, so he doesn't have any experience developing games because he is in a managerial position. however, nooani experience in a managerial position, without writing code or designing counts as developing software? how does that make sense? those two things are both truth or both false, but can't have 1 be truth and 1 be false since they are the same thing. They can be separate things, is my point. Sometimes I'm a Project Manager, sometimes I'm a Developer, sometimes I'm an Engineer, sometimes I'm a Designer. So you're kinda assuming that Noaani hasn't written code or designed games because of something he said about something else. It'd be like if you said 'You don't know how to write game economy transaction code just because you're a stock market investor!' to me. I know how to do both things. That's why you do what Abarat does and ask 'have you done this thing that I will use as the metric for if you know what you are talking about or not?' Otherwise you'll end up arguing with Noaani pointlessly over definitions and no one wants that, right? not pointesly, definitions are important, specially objective definitions. people here often say "define this as that" and it isnt objective, tis only their subjective truth. so how can you expect to talk about somethign and analyze wether its right or wrong when people dont even know what is the concept they are talking about. as an example, go watch those clips of people asking the feminists what is a woman when they try to talk about women and then they freeze or cant define it xDDD thats literally whats been going on here this past month. also, i might be wrong, but from what nooani has said, he hasn't designed or built software, he has just supervised people who has without actually doing it himself. and yes, you can be a programmer, then become a manager and supervise other programmers, but at least you were a programmer first. it isnt the same as managing programmers without never being a programmer. read uncle bob book series and you will get what i mean :P Yes, I'm aware that the discourse type on the forums has shifted even more in that direction lately. Hopefully Vaknar and Roshen don't have to actually parse it all without some sort of tool. I'm just telling you that in this specific case, you're the one starting the mess. But at least we're at the point where Noaani theoretically could just say 'no I have designed/built software' and that would resolve your assert statement to False, right? its irrelevant to me if he has or hasnt. but from the things he says, it seems that he hasnt. my problem is, and this is a problem i have with many of the things being postd lately, is that people say this X thing should be like this or else its a bad design. people who never designed anything and cant define X. like ive said many times, its the equivalent of telling a doctor what medicine or treatment to give you, or telling a lawyer how to build your case, or a chef how to cook. you basically go to a doctor and tell him whats wrong, then you let him do his work. You're gonna get a long explanation (not from me) about why this isn't that situation, but have at it. I'll give you a shorter one though. This isn't that situation. Noaani could be right or wrong about this specific game, but it's not like the principle doesn't apply at all.
Depraved wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Liniker wrote: » Noaani wrote: » In reality, the biggest issue is that Intrepid is developing the game without taking that bulk perspective in to account first, developing the game for them, fully fleshing out that gameplay experience, and then adding to it for top end players. Basically, Intrepid are trying to build the roof before they build the foundation. So, what game development experience do you have? I read the shit you say like I'm listening to a drunk hillbilly at a bar sharing his opinion on politics or aliens, at least it's entertaining I will give you that. I have well over a decade of experience in software development, and multiple decades of product development in other fields. Games aren't such a unique product that the basics don't hold true. The problem for you is - as soon as you read that post, you knew immediately that I was right. manager != programmer && manager != designer This is the first mention of the term 'manager' on this page. Did you mean something else? he has stated before that he is a manager I'll save Noaani the trouble then... Assuming Noaani is a manager right now has nothing to do with those two things. I've been all three at the same time professionally, I'm sometimes all three now. So you can probably just drop this line of... whatever it is, and go back to finding a way to discredit the thing he actually said. well, he criticized Steven saying that Steven isn't a game developer because Steven hasn't designed a game or written code, so he doesn't have any experience developing games because he is in a managerial position. however, nooani experience in a managerial position, without writing code or designing counts as developing software? how does that make sense? those two things are both truth or both false, but can't have 1 be truth and 1 be false since they are the same thing. They can be separate things, is my point. Sometimes I'm a Project Manager, sometimes I'm a Developer, sometimes I'm an Engineer, sometimes I'm a Designer. So you're kinda assuming that Noaani hasn't written code or designed games because of something he said about something else. It'd be like if you said 'You don't know how to write game economy transaction code just because you're a stock market investor!' to me. I know how to do both things. That's why you do what Abarat does and ask 'have you done this thing that I will use as the metric for if you know what you are talking about or not?' Otherwise you'll end up arguing with Noaani pointlessly over definitions and no one wants that, right? not pointesly, definitions are important, specially objective definitions. people here often say "define this as that" and it isnt objective, tis only their subjective truth. so how can you expect to talk about somethign and analyze wether its right or wrong when people dont even know what is the concept they are talking about. as an example, go watch those clips of people asking the feminists what is a woman when they try to talk about women and then they freeze or cant define it xDDD thats literally whats been going on here this past month. also, i might be wrong, but from what nooani has said, he hasn't designed or built software, he has just supervised people who has without actually doing it himself. and yes, you can be a programmer, then become a manager and supervise other programmers, but at least you were a programmer first. it isnt the same as managing programmers without never being a programmer. read uncle bob book series and you will get what i mean :P Yes, I'm aware that the discourse type on the forums has shifted even more in that direction lately. Hopefully Vaknar and Roshen don't have to actually parse it all without some sort of tool. I'm just telling you that in this specific case, you're the one starting the mess. But at least we're at the point where Noaani theoretically could just say 'no I have designed/built software' and that would resolve your assert statement to False, right? its irrelevant to me if he has or hasnt. but from the things he says, it seems that he hasnt. my problem is, and this is a problem i have with many of the things being postd lately, is that people say this X thing should be like this or else its a bad design. people who never designed anything and cant define X. like ive said many times, its the equivalent of telling a doctor what medicine or treatment to give you, or telling a lawyer how to build your case, or a chef how to cook. you basically go to a doctor and tell him whats wrong, then you let him do his work. You're gonna get a long explanation (not from me) about why this isn't that situation, but have at it. I'll give you a shorter one though. This isn't that situation. Noaani could be right or wrong about this specific game, but it's not like the principle doesn't apply at all. well, his principle is: it was good in eq so it has to be like that in every game ............
Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Liniker wrote: » Noaani wrote: » In reality, the biggest issue is that Intrepid is developing the game without taking that bulk perspective in to account first, developing the game for them, fully fleshing out that gameplay experience, and then adding to it for top end players. Basically, Intrepid are trying to build the roof before they build the foundation. So, what game development experience do you have? I read the shit you say like I'm listening to a drunk hillbilly at a bar sharing his opinion on politics or aliens, at least it's entertaining I will give you that. I have well over a decade of experience in software development, and multiple decades of product development in other fields. Games aren't such a unique product that the basics don't hold true. The problem for you is - as soon as you read that post, you knew immediately that I was right. manager != programmer && manager != designer This is the first mention of the term 'manager' on this page. Did you mean something else? he has stated before that he is a manager I'll save Noaani the trouble then... Assuming Noaani is a manager right now has nothing to do with those two things. I've been all three at the same time professionally, I'm sometimes all three now. So you can probably just drop this line of... whatever it is, and go back to finding a way to discredit the thing he actually said. well, he criticized Steven saying that Steven isn't a game developer because Steven hasn't designed a game or written code, so he doesn't have any experience developing games because he is in a managerial position. however, nooani experience in a managerial position, without writing code or designing counts as developing software? how does that make sense? those two things are both truth or both false, but can't have 1 be truth and 1 be false since they are the same thing. They can be separate things, is my point. Sometimes I'm a Project Manager, sometimes I'm a Developer, sometimes I'm an Engineer, sometimes I'm a Designer. So you're kinda assuming that Noaani hasn't written code or designed games because of something he said about something else. It'd be like if you said 'You don't know how to write game economy transaction code just because you're a stock market investor!' to me. I know how to do both things. That's why you do what Abarat does and ask 'have you done this thing that I will use as the metric for if you know what you are talking about or not?' Otherwise you'll end up arguing with Noaani pointlessly over definitions and no one wants that, right? not pointesly, definitions are important, specially objective definitions. people here often say "define this as that" and it isnt objective, tis only their subjective truth. so how can you expect to talk about somethign and analyze wether its right or wrong when people dont even know what is the concept they are talking about. as an example, go watch those clips of people asking the feminists what is a woman when they try to talk about women and then they freeze or cant define it xDDD thats literally whats been going on here this past month. also, i might be wrong, but from what nooani has said, he hasn't designed or built software, he has just supervised people who has without actually doing it himself. and yes, you can be a programmer, then become a manager and supervise other programmers, but at least you were a programmer first. it isnt the same as managing programmers without never being a programmer. read uncle bob book series and you will get what i mean :P Yes, I'm aware that the discourse type on the forums has shifted even more in that direction lately. Hopefully Vaknar and Roshen don't have to actually parse it all without some sort of tool. I'm just telling you that in this specific case, you're the one starting the mess. But at least we're at the point where Noaani theoretically could just say 'no I have designed/built software' and that would resolve your assert statement to False, right? its irrelevant to me if he has or hasnt. but from the things he says, it seems that he hasnt. my problem is, and this is a problem i have with many of the things being postd lately, is that people say this X thing should be like this or else its a bad design. people who never designed anything and cant define X. like ive said many times, its the equivalent of telling a doctor what medicine or treatment to give you, or telling a lawyer how to build your case, or a chef how to cook. you basically go to a doctor and tell him whats wrong, then you let him do his work. You're gonna get a long explanation (not from me) about why this isn't that situation, but have at it. I'll give you a shorter one though. This isn't that situation. Noaani could be right or wrong about this specific game, but it's not like the principle doesn't apply at all. well, his principle is: it was good in eq so it has to be like that in every game ............ You're not even trying now are you, lol? Fortunately for you I think Noaani actually really enjoys this sort of thing. This one might be more of a Foxtrot...
Depraved wrote: » ill put it in terms familia rto you. imagine i go to final fantasy forums and say hey you MUST do open world pvp, because it was like that in l2 and it will be like this in aoc, otherwise the game will fail, it wont have a futre soon, this X thing will happen etc etc etc. im sure no one will tolerate that and tell me im being ridiculous. so why do we have to tolerate the same behavior here?
Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » ill put it in terms familia rto you. imagine i go to final fantasy forums and say hey you MUST do open world pvp, because it was like that in l2 and it will be like this in aoc, otherwise the game will fail, it wont have a futre soon, this X thing will happen etc etc etc. im sure no one will tolerate that and tell me im being ridiculous. so why do we have to tolerate the same behavior here? If you went to the Final Fantasy forums for some feature that they implied they were going to add and wanted to tell them how they should add it based on your experience, I'm sure there would be people who would tell you that you are being ridiculous. I think those people would be wrong to tell you that.
