Noaani wrote: » @Depraved Not sure why me as a manager has any impact on this. However, as a manager of people that possess and make use of skills that I do not have, my job isn't to tell them what to do. My job is to inform them what we need from them, ask them what resources they need to be able to deliver that, and then find them those resources. Essentially, my job is to enable my team to do their job. I wouldn't ever even consider getting in to the details about what they do or do not test - they are grown ass people, they can make that decision themselves. Other than the above, the only thing I do in my capacity of managing the people that possess these skills I do not possess, is that I sit down with them once they have enough progress to make this viable, and we go over the user experience of everything we have. There is an expectation that there will be several things that need to be changed after this sit down, and I have conditioned my team to expect and understand this. To me, if they have their heads deep inside the engine of what ever it is we are doing, I want them to focus on that engine, not on whether or not they accidently cut the wire to the window demister. We will discover the demister isn't working in our sit down later on, and can simply deal with it then (this is an analogy, I do not work in the automobile industry). You are indeed correct that I do not build the software my team builds. I possess some of the skills, but not many. My job, however, other than enabling my team, is spotting design flaws (which, you may note, is what I have claimed to have done here). Incidently, from the thread where I said Steven isn't a game developer, I also don't consider myself a software developer - I simply manage a team of software developers (among other people). As to your comments about "Uncle Bob", he is more concerned with code than actual product design. I am not at all commenting on how Intrepid are building the game from a code perspective - I have no inherent reason to even know. I am looking at it (and criticizing it) from a product design perspective - which is something Uncle Bob simply doesn't concern himself with. To your point about going to FFXIV forums and saying they need open world PvP, the thing I think you are missing is that I am pointing out issues here - I am not providing solutions.
Depraved wrote: » Noaani wrote: » @Depraved Not sure why me as a manager has any impact on this. However, as a manager of people that possess and make use of skills that I do not have, my job isn't to tell them what to do. My job is to inform them what we need from them, ask them what resources they need to be able to deliver that, and then find them those resources. Essentially, my job is to enable my team to do their job. I wouldn't ever even consider getting in to the details about what they do or do not test - they are grown ass people, they can make that decision themselves. Other than the above, the only thing I do in my capacity of managing the people that possess these skills I do not possess, is that I sit down with them once they have enough progress to make this viable, and we go over the user experience of everything we have. There is an expectation that there will be several things that need to be changed after this sit down, and I have conditioned my team to expect and understand this. To me, if they have their heads deep inside the engine of what ever it is we are doing, I want them to focus on that engine, not on whether or not they accidently cut the wire to the window demister. We will discover the demister isn't working in our sit down later on, and can simply deal with it then (this is an analogy, I do not work in the automobile industry). You are indeed correct that I do not build the software my team builds. I possess some of the skills, but not many. My job, however, other than enabling my team, is spotting design flaws (which, you may note, is what I have claimed to have done here). Incidently, from the thread where I said Steven isn't a game developer, I also don't consider myself a software developer - I simply manage a team of software developers (among other people). As to your comments about "Uncle Bob", he is more concerned with code than actual product design. I am not at all commenting on how Intrepid are building the game from a code perspective - I have no inherent reason to even know. I am looking at it (and criticizing it) from a product design perspective - which is something Uncle Bob simply doesn't concern himself with. To your point about going to FFXIV forums and saying they need open world PvP, the thing I think you are missing is that I am pointing out issues here - I am not providing solutions. well, that seems very reasonable. cant argue with you there. however, let me point out 1 thing. at your job, you are able to point out design flaws because you know all the aspects of the products and how different parts interact with others. no one in aoc knows how the things we've seen in isolation interact with all the other things we have seen and we havent seen. im not saying there might not be any flaws, but people here claim that if "this thing is this way, it will fail and it has to be this other way" when they havent seen all the other aspects of the product. also, yes you are right about uncle bob, but he also talks about a little about managerial stuff and how it affects the programmers
Kionashi wrote: » I mean if freeholds are an exclusive feature that only will be accessible for a tiny percentage of the player base, I think it would be pointless for a casual player or a player who simply has little game time to even attempt to begin on the processing artisan paths at all.... I mean why even bother if you are going to hit a dead end eventually? Is not like crafting because if you need T-5 ingredients you can simply save up money to eventually buy it, or organizing with a group to attempt the World boss that drops that item...that's something everyone can do...of course hardcore players would have it easier but a casual players with time a patience will get there eventually too. But again because the Freeholds are such an exclusive commodity is fair to assume all freeholds will be owned at all times by the sweatiest nerds on the server who can afford to play 12h a day which allows them to outbid anyone who dares to attempt to get a freehold, basically keeping everybody else literally unable to access T5-6 processing stations. No amount of time or dedication will allow a gamer dad with 5 wives and 10 dogs to outbid someone who simply has more play time than him. So considering the system as we can see it right now, if you know you only will be able to play on weekends, or a couple hours per day, is there even a point on starting on the processing artisan paths at all? I mean sure, you can get T1 to T4 items which is nice, but eventually you will hit max level and will need T5, T6 gear to play endgame content so being able to make those low tier items wont get you any further on your artisan path. Not to mention all those feelbad moments of "hey I got this ultra rare drop from this endgame boss...but I don't have a freehold so I can't make anything with it even though I decided to dedicate myself to an artisan path that uses this kind of items, I guess I'll sell it or whatever". At this point you are no longer an artisan because the content you will do won't give you anything to progress on your artisan path. But yeah, unless something changes I think the best strategy for most players would be to avoid all processing paths and focus on crafting/ gathering since those would allow you to reach the endgame without being limited for not being part of the 10% of the population that can get a freehold.
Depraved wrote: » do you tell a doctor how to treat you?
Dygz wrote: » But, it would be helpful if Steven would be more clear about the playstyles he is tragetting and the playstyles he's not targeting.
Liniker wrote: » Dygz wrote: » But, it would be helpful if Steven would be more clear about the playstyles he is tragetting and the playstyles he's not targeting. He is being 100% clear about who is the target audience, now more than ever, I honestly don't think he could be more clear than that, usually, developers don't even talk about it to not push people away. The issue is people can not accept the reality about who is the target audience, and try to use quotes and clips from 6 years ago to disprove what the man is saying now about his own game, they also do all sorts of mental gymnastics to try to fit in.
Liniker wrote: » He is being 100% clear about who is the target audience, now more than ever, I honestly don't think he could be more clear than that, usually, developers don't even talk about it to not push people away.
Liniker wrote: » The issue is people can not accept the reality about who is the target audience, and try to use quotes and clips from 6 years ago to disprove what the man is saying now about his own game, they also do all sorts of mental gymnastics to try to fit in.
Meztopheles wrote: » It's difficult to have a strong opinion without more information, but I think a casual player could still gain access to the highest-level processing stations with enough dedication over time and patience. Most sweat-lords won't want to spend all day processing, there are avenues through which someone who doesn't own one can still gain access to the stations, people may (almost certainly will) sell access but no one will purchase it at unprofitable prices so there should be some margin on purchased usage even if it's nowhere near the level of owned/free usage. In short, if a casual REALLY wants to be a processor, I think they'll be able to. They just may be more like tenants/workers rather than owners, reminiscent of real life. I personally don't think that's ideal given the appeal of processing activities to casuals (likely above that of the sweaty), but I also don't think it'll be impossible.
Azherae wrote: » I'm just telling you that in this specific case, you're the one starting the mess. But at least we're at the point where Noaani theoretically could just say 'no I have designed/built software' and that would resolve your assert statement to False, right?
Dygz wrote: » Depraved wrote: » do you tell a doctor how to treat you? I mean... again... Steven is not the equivalent of a doctor. He does not have any kind of university degree in game design. He does not have years working from intern to fellow to attending... etc. Steven is a gamer with the funds to hire a dev team and have them create the game of his dreams. He is learning on the job - and still has a bunch of stuff to learn since he has never worked on a game that has actually released. Lots of gamers have the notion that if it was good in x game it will be good in all games - maybe just with a couple tweaks suit to my playstyle better. Which is why it's a good idea to always have an experienced Lead Game Designer on the team who as successfully released at least a couple of games. (And hopefully those games have remained popular for more than a couple years.) People saying x is bad for my playstyle does not necessarily mean it is bad design for all playstyles. But, it would be helpful if Steven would be more clear about the playstyles he is tragetting and the playstyles he's not targeting.
Depraved wrote: » telling the doctor how a medicine they have already used didn't help them is not the same as telling them how to treat you. By telling them how to treat you is telling the doctor, ok now you have to give me 10ml of this medicine twice a day, or you need to make n incision here..etc. also, im sure when your friend tells a doctor that a specific medicine didnt help (he told the doctor his problem) the doctor found a solution using his expertise.
Dygz wrote: » Depraved wrote: » do you tell a doctor how to treat you? People saying x is bad for my playstyle does not necessarily mean it is bad design for all playstyles. But, it would be helpful if Steven would be more clear about the playstyles he is tragetting and the playstyles he's not targeting.
