PvE Players tell me why you follow Ashes of Creation

Doesn't matter if the first time you saw Ashes was in kickstarter, or just learned of the project 2 weeks ago.

As a PvE first player, what makes you look forward to PvE in AoC or what was the defining feature that you're looking forward to?

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Noaani

NiKr wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Don't take this the wrong way, but it's kind of cute that you think people like Liniker would read a post well enough to understand an adjective such as that. Or that Mag wouldn't just follow Linikers lead like a lost little puppy.

In this case my comment applies more to Brony than you purely because they were the one who started this shit this time.

Fair point.

Percimes

Questions.

Can IS showcase a top end raid encounter without all archetypes presented first? Can they show anything without revealing these archetypes' abilities sets? How representative would showcasing that encounter with place holders or incomplete sets be? Would it be received as false promises? Lies?

Aside from concept arts of the big bad guy, some maps or modeled terrain, are we there yet to be presented more? Beside saying there will high end PvE stuff, what would be pertinent and convincing?

Shikisei

Honestly when I backed it years ago, I really liked how actions affected the world/town etc... but now I'm not really sure what's happening...

Ludullu

Percimes wrote: »

Can IS showcase a top end raid encounter without all archetypes presented first? Can they show anything without revealing these archetypes' abilities sets? How representative would showcasing that encounter with place holders or incomplete sets be? Would it be received as false promises? Lies?

Aside from concept arts of the big bad guy, some maps or modeled terrain, are we there yet to be presented more? Beside saying there will high end PvE stuff, what would be pertinent and convincing?

Imo an AI dev on stream explaining their approach to high end pve would be enough. We've had "roads" mechanics on streams, we've had a whole stream about "events" where just a bunch of mobs were running towards smth.

I think that would be the most "concrete" info on this topic that we can currently get.

HumblePuffin

NiKr wrote: »

Percimes wrote: »

Can IS showcase a top end raid encounter without all archetypes presented first? Can they show anything without revealing these archetypes' abilities sets? How representative would showcasing that encounter with place holders or incomplete sets be? Would it be received as false promises? Lies?

Aside from concept arts of the big bad guy, some maps or modeled terrain, are we there yet to be presented more? Beside saying there will high end PvE stuff, what would be pertinent and convincing?

Imo an AI dev on stream explaining their approach to high end pve would be enough. We've had "roads" mechanics on streams, we've had a whole stream about "events" where just a bunch of mobs were running towards smth.

I think that would be the most "concrete" info on this topic that we can currently get.

I too would really love an AI dev to come on and at least try to paint a picture of where they think they want to go with it all both big and small.

I think the things I am most critical about while watching the updates is the mob ai behavior (I know it’s early). Pathing especially with regular mobs, but even the Tumok fight, the targeting decision making seemed too unnatural (this could also be a lot to do with current animation pass).

This is definitely way down animation pass lane but I would love to be able to see some of the decision making in the AI as a player started to gain threat off someone. Some glances by the mob before switching targets as opposed to just suddenly turning on a dime and attacking you.

Would love more information on the adaptive AI and get to see it in action on a simple fight where we could see the differences. Hopefully they’ll consider doing a technical showcase after nodes soon.

Noaani

NiKr wrote: »

Percimes wrote: »

Can IS showcase a top end raid encounter without all archetypes presented first? Can they show anything without revealing these archetypes' abilities sets? How representative would showcasing that encounter with place holders or incomplete sets be? Would it be received as false promises? Lies?

Aside from concept arts of the big bad guy, some maps or modeled terrain, are we there yet to be presented more? Beside saying there will high end PvE stuff, what would be pertinent and convincing?

Imo an AI dev on stream explaining their approach to high end pve would be enough. We've had "roads" mechanics on streams, we've had a whole stream about "events" where just a bunch of mobs were running towards smth.

I think that would be the most "concrete" info on this topic that we can currently get.

Yeah, basically this.

In fact, this would be better than a showcase. The best raids in games don't come until well after release. I don't want them to show me raid content, I want them to tell me what their intention with it is.

Depraved

not all pve players are the same, and not all pvp players are the same.
many pvp players like ow pvp, but many dont. many like arenas, many dont. many like equalized arenas and many dont.

same can be said for pve players. not all of them enjoy the same type of content. saying the game doesnt have content for REAL pve players (whatever real might be) is just silly.

Liniker

Noaani wrote: »

Don't take this the wrong way, but it's kind of cute that you think people like Liniker would read a post well enough to understand an adjective such as that. Or that Mag wouldn't just follow Linikers lead like a lost little puppy.

You said people like me and Steven are narcissists because we play MMOs with guilds remember, thats why I don't read your posts, I only read what I type, sorry

but for real now, I don't really care about these discussions Noaani I am just here for the entertainment, sure, I think you say a lot of stupid shit, but that's what keeps the entertainment rolling so carry on

Noaani

Depraved wrote: »

not all pve players are the same, and not all pvp players are the same.
many pvp players like ow pvp, but many dont. many like arenas, many dont. many like equalized arenas and many dont.

same can be said for pve players. not all of them enjoy the same type of content. saying the game doesnt have content for REAL pve players (whatever real might be) is just silly.

Well, yeah. Some enjoy solo content, some enjoy group content, some enjoy raids. Some like their content instanced, some like it open.

One thing they all have in common though, is they want the challenge to come from the PvE, not from PvP. The reason I can state this with abslute certainty is because that is literally the bracket of players I am defining and then talking about. Is that everyone that enjoys PvE? No, obviously some very PvP oriented players also sometimes like PvP. Thing is, I am not talking about them, I am tlaking about the group defined above.

So far, no PvE content in Ashes has been shown where the challenge does not actually come from PvP, and it is probable that none ever will.

As I have said though, that is fine. Ashes is not for everyone, and all I am doing (that people seem to be taking offense with) is defining one of the groups that this game is not aimed at.

Noaani

Liniker wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Don't take this the wrong way, but it's kind of cute that you think people like Liniker would read a post well enough to understand an adjective such as that. Or that Mag wouldn't just follow Linikers lead like a lost little puppy.

You said people like me and Steven are narcissists because we play MMOs with guilds remember

No I didn't.

Again, you being unable to actually read. This is why NiKr's suggestion of adding an adjective just won't work.

For the record, I suggested that you may well have such tendencies, but that is based on your posts here, nothing at all to do with your guild. Then, as a seperate comment, one that only a person with narcissistic tendencies would assume to be about themselves, I claimed that based on Stevens guild in Archeage, he may also.

To anyone other than Liniker, feel free to go back through the thread to find the posts - the above is what you will see. Liniker will still see what ever he wants, and make it about him.

Mag7spy

Then you have the anti-Noaani mob coming in having to disagree with what I am saying just because I am saying it, which basically results in them having to say "well may be the game IS for PvE players, you don't know." and then making up bullshit like I said the game was a scam.

It really is amusing, and they really are pathetic.

Fragile self-esteem: Despite their outward confidence, narcissists may have a fragile self-esteem that is easily threatened by criticism or perceived rejection.

Difficulty handling criticism: They are highly sensitive to criticism and may react defensively or aggressively when their flaws or mistakes are pointed out.

Lack of accountability: Narcissists may have difficulty taking responsibility for their actions and may blame others for their problems or mistakes.

Ignores half the points of others and sums it up as anti-mob, to his own bad take. Imagine someone spreading misinformation on the forums and being called out. While trying to rely on the 1-2 people that agree with him no matter what as a life boat.

Liniker

Noaani wrote: »

No I didn't.

Again, you being unable to actually read. This is why NiKr's suggestion of adding an adjective just won't work.

I did it intentionally lol as a joke for the whole narcisim and me not reading your messages thing, hence the "for real now" on the message below,

you take things too seriously, I will add the sarcasm disclaimer next time

Isth3reno1else

BlackBrony wrote: »

Liniker wrote: »

BlackBrony wrote: »

But Ashes doesn't really have PvE.

Dungeons & Raids both open world and instanced, POIs, Narrative events, world events with stuff like invasions etc, regional and world bosses, treasure hunting, Housing, 23 different professions across gathering crafting and processing,

Saying AoC has no PVE should be a bannable offense lol

Bro, that's not PvE. That's filler content. It's like saying that Arenas 1v1 is PvP, and that's all you have.
That's the problem. You people think PvE is that, but it's not. It won't satisfy PvE players.
PvErs want to run dungeons and raids, not pick flowers.

Seems like it's not your type of PVE, but it's inherently pve.

Noaani

Liniker wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

No I didn't.

Again, you being unable to actually read. This is why NiKr's suggestion of adding an adjective just won't work.

I did it intentionally lol as a joke for the whole narcisim and me not reading your messages thing, hence the "for real now" on the message below,

The reason I take it seriously is because people like Mag see you say things like that, assume it to be something I said, and then I find myself spending 5 pages pointing out that I didn't.

Don't misrepresent people - not even as a joke. Not even with a sarcasm tag.

Noaani

Isth3reno1else wrote: »

BlackBrony wrote: »

Liniker wrote: »

BlackBrony wrote: »

But Ashes doesn't really have PvE.

Dungeons & Raids both open world and instanced, POIs, Narrative events, world events with stuff like invasions etc, regional and world bosses, treasure hunting, Housing, 23 different professions across gathering crafting and processing,

Saying AoC has no PVE should be a bannable offense lol

Bro, that's not PvE. That's filler content. It's like saying that Arenas 1v1 is PvP, and that's all you have.
That's the problem. You people think PvE is that, but it's not. It won't satisfy PvE players.
PvErs want to run dungeons and raids, not pick flowers.

Seems like it's not your type of PVE, but it's inherently pve.

To be clear, we are talking about PvE for specific PvE players. We don't bother going in to the details of it in every post for breveities sake. By PvE in the context of these discussions, we are talking abotu PvE content where the challenge comes from the PvE itself, not the PvP associated with it, and idealy where that challenge is high.

Mag7spy

Me point out actual points in the discussion he is ignoring and the links of personality and not commenting on the meme, him lying to say I'm taking him getting meme'd on as serious disccusion.

Difficulty handling criticism: They are highly sensitive to criticism and may react defensively or aggressively when their flaws or mistakes are pointed out.

Lack of accountability: Narcissists may have difficulty taking responsibility for their actions and may blame others for their problems or mistakes.

Azherae

Mag7spy wrote: »

Me point out actual points in the discussion he is ignoring and the links of personality and not commenting on the meme, him lying to say I'm taking him getting meme'd on as serious disccusion.

Difficulty handling criticism: They are highly sensitive to criticism and may react defensively or aggressively when their flaws or mistakes are pointed out.

Lack of accountability: Narcissists may have difficulty taking responsibility for their actions and may blame others for their problems or mistakes.

Dial it back please, it's a Monday Morning.

Isth3reno1else

Noaani wrote: »

Isth3reno1else wrote: »

BlackBrony wrote: »

Liniker wrote: »

BlackBrony wrote: »

But Ashes doesn't really have PvE.

Dungeons & Raids both open world and instanced, POIs, Narrative events, world events with stuff like invasions etc, regional and world bosses, treasure hunting, Housing, 23 different professions across gathering crafting and processing,

Saying AoC has no PVE should be a bannable offense lol

Bro, that's not PvE. That's filler content. It's like saying that Arenas 1v1 is PvP, and that's all you have.
That's the problem. You people think PvE is that, but it's not. It won't satisfy PvE players.
PvErs want to run dungeons and raids, not pick flowers.

Seems like it's not your type of PVE, but it's inherently pve.

To be clear, we are talking about PvE for specific PvE players. We don't bother going in to the details of it in every post for breveities sake. By PvE in the context of these discussions, we are talking abotu PvE content where the challenge comes from the PvE itself, not the PvP associated with it, and idealy where that challenge is high.

Idk if any of us are in a situation to say that PVE content in Ashes won't be challenging though either.

Dolyem

Noaani wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

So what you are basing your statements on are entirely from them not being showcased yet?

Basically, yeah.

If we get the things I have been asking for since about 2018, then awesome. Do you honestly think I won't be the first to jump up and down and say how great I think it is?

I can't comment on aspects of the game that have not been shown to us. I am happy to make small inferences to fill in missing gaps, but the inference required to take me from what we know of the game today to a game that contains the content I, my guild, and many other MMO players like us are after is kind of several massive leaps at this point.

It could still happen though - that is why I am still here.

However, that doesn't mean I should (or will) just stop posting about what is preventing many of us from being even remotely interested in the game.

We can only really discuss the game as it has been presented to us.

I agree to discuss the issues with the game we can think of. My only problem with what you were saying was disregarding things simply because they haven't got around to showing the end of it yet. After reading through the other posts after this one, I see it's mostly end game content you are referring to, but while that is a huge part of the PvE experience as well, not only do we need hands on that content to actually tell if it is good or bad, but all of the other content leading up to it is still PvE.

I do think having an AI designer and a boss mechanic dev come on and just explain a few ideas and their direction of raid bosses/dungeon bosses would be a great idea. No need to all out show the raid, just the concepts of how they plan to do things as far as how many mechanics there are, phases, hiw environment comes into play, what can happen when PvP gets involved, intended group compositions and numbers of players for a boss. Etc

But yea, my only gripe with you earlier is that to many, it sounds like you are claiming that there is no PvE content at all. But what it seems that you're really meaning to say is that you haven't seen any end game PvE you regard as quality yet.

Dolyem

BlackBrony wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

Just because the content isn't instanced, doesn't mean it isnt PvE. Sure, it likely won't be for everyone, but to make the claim that the game doesn't have more than enough PvE content planned is a lie.

Then all games are PvP, why don't you enjoy them? They all have instanced PvP

Because I personally don't like them separated? I don't see the point you are trying to make here. Instanced PvP is still definitely PvP. Instanced PvE is still PvE. Making them not Instanced doesn't change what they are, it just let's them intermingle. Are you a PvE server advocate or something?

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