Then you have the anti-Noaani mob coming in having to disagree with what I am saying just because I am saying it, which basically results in them having to say "well may be the game IS for PvE players, you don't know." and then making up bullshit like I said the game was a scam.
It really is amusing, and they really are pathetic.
Fragile self-esteem: Despite their outward confidence, narcissists may have a fragile self-esteem that is easily threatened by criticism or perceived rejection.
Difficulty handling criticism: They are highly sensitive to criticism and may react defensively or aggressively when their flaws or mistakes are pointed out.
Lack of accountability: Narcissists may have difficulty taking responsibility for their actions and may blame others for their problems or mistakes.
Ignores half the points of others and sums it up as anti-mob, to his own bad take. Imagine someone spreading misinformation on the forums and being called out. While trying to rely on the 1-2 people that agree with him no matter what as a life boat.
Dungeons & Raids both open world and instanced, POIs, Narrative events, world events with stuff like invasions etc, regional and world bosses, treasure hunting, Housing, 23 different professions across gathering crafting and processing,
Saying AoC has no PVE should be a bannable offense lol
Bro, that's not PvE. That's filler content. It's like saying that Arenas 1v1 is PvP, and that's all you have.
That's the problem. You people think PvE is that, but it's not. It won't satisfy PvE players.
PvErs want to run dungeons and raids, not pick flowers.
Seems like it's not your type of PVE, but it's inherently pve.
Again, you being unable to actually read. This is why NiKr's suggestion of adding an adjective just won't work.
I did it intentionally lol as a joke for the whole narcisim and me not reading your messages thing, hence the "for real now" on the message below,
The reason I take it seriously is because people like Mag see you say things like that, assume it to be something I said, and then I find myself spending 5 pages pointing out that I didn't.
Don't misrepresent people - not even as a joke. Not even with a sarcasm tag.
Dungeons & Raids both open world and instanced, POIs, Narrative events, world events with stuff like invasions etc, regional and world bosses, treasure hunting, Housing, 23 different professions across gathering crafting and processing,
Saying AoC has no PVE should be a bannable offense lol
Bro, that's not PvE. That's filler content. It's like saying that Arenas 1v1 is PvP, and that's all you have.
That's the problem. You people think PvE is that, but it's not. It won't satisfy PvE players.
PvErs want to run dungeons and raids, not pick flowers.
Seems like it's not your type of PVE, but it's inherently pve.
To be clear, we are talking about PvE for specific PvE players. We don't bother going in to the details of it in every post for breveities sake. By PvE in the context of these discussions, we are talking abotu PvE content where the challenge comes from the PvE itself, not the PvP associated with it, and idealy where that challenge is high.
Me point out actual points in the discussion he is ignoring and the links of personality and not commenting on the meme, him lying to say I'm taking him getting meme'd on as serious disccusion.
Difficulty handling criticism: They are highly sensitive to criticism and may react defensively or aggressively when their flaws or mistakes are pointed out.
Lack of accountability: Narcissists may have difficulty taking responsibility for their actions and may blame others for their problems or mistakes.
Me point out actual points in the discussion he is ignoring and the links of personality and not commenting on the meme, him lying to say I'm taking him getting meme'd on as serious disccusion.
Difficulty handling criticism: They are highly sensitive to criticism and may react defensively or aggressively when their flaws or mistakes are pointed out.
Lack of accountability: Narcissists may have difficulty taking responsibility for their actions and may blame others for their problems or mistakes.
Dungeons & Raids both open world and instanced, POIs, Narrative events, world events with stuff like invasions etc, regional and world bosses, treasure hunting, Housing, 23 different professions across gathering crafting and processing,
Saying AoC has no PVE should be a bannable offense lol
Bro, that's not PvE. That's filler content. It's like saying that Arenas 1v1 is PvP, and that's all you have.
That's the problem. You people think PvE is that, but it's not. It won't satisfy PvE players.
PvErs want to run dungeons and raids, not pick flowers.
Seems like it's not your type of PVE, but it's inherently pve.
To be clear, we are talking about PvE for specific PvE players. We don't bother going in to the details of it in every post for breveities sake. By PvE in the context of these discussions, we are talking abotu PvE content where the challenge comes from the PvE itself, not the PvP associated with it, and idealy where that challenge is high.
Idk if any of us are in a situation to say that PVE content in Ashes won't be challenging though either.
So what you are basing your statements on are entirely from them not being showcased yet?
Basically, yeah.
If we get the things I have been asking for since about 2018, then awesome. Do you honestly think I won't be the first to jump up and down and say how great I think it is?
I can't comment on aspects of the game that have not been shown to us. I am happy to make small inferences to fill in missing gaps, but the inference required to take me from what we know of the game today to a game that contains the content I, my guild, and many other MMO players like us are after is kind of several massive leaps at this point.
It could still happen though - that is why I am still here.
However, that doesn't mean I should (or will) just stop posting about what is preventing many of us from being even remotely interested in the game.
We can only really discuss the game as it has been presented to us.
I agree to discuss the issues with the game we can think of. My only problem with what you were saying was disregarding things simply because they haven't got around to showing the end of it yet. After reading through the other posts after this one, I see it's mostly end game content you are referring to, but while that is a huge part of the PvE experience as well, not only do we need hands on that content to actually tell if it is good or bad, but all of the other content leading up to it is still PvE.
I do think having an AI designer and a boss mechanic dev come on and just explain a few ideas and their direction of raid bosses/dungeon bosses would be a great idea. No need to all out show the raid, just the concepts of how they plan to do things as far as how many mechanics there are, phases, hiw environment comes into play, what can happen when PvP gets involved, intended group compositions and numbers of players for a boss. Etc
But yea, my only gripe with you earlier is that to many, it sounds like you are claiming that there is no PvE content at all. But what it seems that you're really meaning to say is that you haven't seen any end game PvE you regard as quality yet.
Just because the content isn't instanced, doesn't mean it isnt PvE. Sure, it likely won't be for everyone, but to make the claim that the game doesn't have more than enough PvE content planned is a lie.
Then all games are PvP, why don't you enjoy them? They all have instanced PvP
Because I personally don't like them separated? I don't see the point you are trying to make here. Instanced PvP is still definitely PvP. Instanced PvE is still PvE. Making them not Instanced doesn't change what they are, it just let's them intermingle. Are you a PvE server advocate or something?
Dungeons & Raids both open world and instanced, POIs, Narrative events, world events with stuff like invasions etc, regional and world bosses, treasure hunting, Housing, 23 different professions across gathering crafting and processing,
Saying AoC has no PVE should be a bannable offense lol
Bro, that's not PvE. That's filler content. It's like saying that Arenas 1v1 is PvP, and that's all you have.
That's the problem. You people think PvE is that, but it's not. It won't satisfy PvE players.
PvErs want to run dungeons and raids, not pick flowers.
Seems like it's not your type of PVE, but it's inherently pve.
To be clear, we are talking about PvE for specific PvE players. We don't bother going in to the details of it in every post for breveities sake. By PvE in the context of these discussions, we are talking abotu PvE content where the challenge comes from the PvE itself, not the PvP associated with it, and idealy where that challenge is high.
Idk if any of us are in a situation to say that PVE content in Ashes won't be challenging though either.
If PvP exists in conjunction with the PvE aspect, and the encounter is designed to be able to be killed with that in place, then most of the challenge can't be coming from the PvE aspect.
At this point, it comes down to Intrepids intentions rather than specific encounter design. This is why them detailing (or even outlining) their intentions in relation to this content is enough.
Dungeons & Raids both open world and instanced, POIs, Narrative events, world events with stuff like invasions etc, regional and world bosses, treasure hunting, Housing, 23 different professions across gathering crafting and processing,
Saying AoC has no PVE should be a bannable offense lol
Bro, that's not PvE. That's filler content. It's like saying that Arenas 1v1 is PvP, and that's all you have.
That's the problem. You people think PvE is that, but it's not. It won't satisfy PvE players.
PvErs want to run dungeons and raids, not pick flowers.
Seems like it's not your type of PVE, but it's inherently pve.
To be clear, we are talking about PvE for specific PvE players. We don't bother going in to the details of it in every post for breveities sake. By PvE in the context of these discussions, we are talking abotu PvE content where the challenge comes from the PvE itself, not the PvP associated with it, and idealy where that challenge is high.
Idk if any of us are in a situation to say that PVE content in Ashes won't be challenging though either.
If PvP exists in conjunction with the PvE aspect, and the encounter is designed to be able to be killed with that in place, then most of the challenge can't be coming from the PvE aspect.
At this point, it comes down to Intrepids intentions rather than specific encounter design. This is why them detailing (or even outlining) their intentions in relation to this content is enough.
A solution to this could be different mechanics while PvP is involved. I couldn't even begin to think of how the AI would know to react but if it fights one way when PvP is active, and another when only one group is focusing it, that could potentially solve the issue you're worried about if it's done correctly
Dungeons & Raids both open world and instanced, POIs, Narrative events, world events with stuff like invasions etc, regional and world bosses, treasure hunting, Housing, 23 different professions across gathering crafting and processing,
Saying AoC has no PVE should be a bannable offense lol
Bro, that's not PvE. That's filler content. It's like saying that Arenas 1v1 is PvP, and that's all you have.
That's the problem. You people think PvE is that, but it's not. It won't satisfy PvE players.
PvErs want to run dungeons and raids, not pick flowers.
Seems like it's not your type of PVE, but it's inherently pve.
To be clear, we are talking about PvE for specific PvE players. We don't bother going in to the details of it in every post for breveities sake. By PvE in the context of these discussions, we are talking abotu PvE content where the challenge comes from the PvE itself, not the PvP associated with it, and idealy where that challenge is high.
Idk if any of us are in a situation to say that PVE content in Ashes won't be challenging though either.
If PvP exists in conjunction with the PvE aspect, and the encounter is designed to be able to be killed with that in place, then most of the challenge can't be coming from the PvE aspect.
At this point, it comes down to Intrepids intentions rather than specific encounter design. This is why them detailing (or even outlining) their intentions in relation to this content is enough.
A solution to this could be different mechanics while PvP is involved. I couldn't even begin to think of how the AI would know to react but if it fights one way when PvP is active, and another when only one group is focusing it, that could potentially solve the issue you're worried about if it's done correctly
While this could be interesting, it would also be abused.
Dungeons & Raids both open world and instanced, POIs, Narrative events, world events with stuff like invasions etc, regional and world bosses, treasure hunting, Housing, 23 different professions across gathering crafting and processing,
Saying AoC has no PVE should be a bannable offense lol
Bro, that's not PvE. That's filler content. It's like saying that Arenas 1v1 is PvP, and that's all you have.
That's the problem. You people think PvE is that, but it's not. It won't satisfy PvE players.
PvErs want to run dungeons and raids, not pick flowers.
Seems like it's not your type of PVE, but it's inherently pve.
To be clear, we are talking about PvE for specific PvE players. We don't bother going in to the details of it in every post for breveities sake. By PvE in the context of these discussions, we are talking abotu PvE content where the challenge comes from the PvE itself, not the PvP associated with it, and idealy where that challenge is high.
Idk if any of us are in a situation to say that PVE content in Ashes won't be challenging though either.
If PvP exists in conjunction with the PvE aspect, and the encounter is designed to be able to be killed with that in place, then most of the challenge can't be coming from the PvE aspect.
At this point, it comes down to Intrepids intentions rather than specific encounter design. This is why them detailing (or even outlining) their intentions in relation to this content is enough.
A solution to this could be different mechanics while PvP is involved. I couldn't even begin to think of how the AI would know to react but if it fights one way when PvP is active, and another when only one group is focusing it, that could potentially solve the issue you're worried about if it's done correctly
While this could be interesting, it would also be abused.
Yea if it is left too basic. I feel like if it was somehow based off the damage each group was doing to eachother it may no be as abused
Just wondering (this isn't a targeted question so feel free to jump in if you wish)
Do you think that there could be a high end PvE boss/dungeon/raid, think of hard ones or ones you've enjoyed from other games, that could work in the AoC setting of potentially coming into contact with other groups trying to complete it? Or would this just be too much to actually complete?
Just wondering (this isn't a targeted question so feel free to jump in if you wish)
Do you think that there could be a high end PvE boss/dungeon/raid, think of hard ones or ones you've enjoyed from other games, that could work in the AoC setting of potentially coming into contact with other groups trying to complete it? Or would this just be too much to actually complete?
Personally I think bosses should be difficult, but not to the point like in retail WoW where you need several add-ons to manage getting through them.
Can IS showcase a top end raid encounter without all archetypes presented first? Can they show anything without revealing these archetypes' abilities sets? How representative would showcasing that encounter with place holders or incomplete sets be? Would it be received as false promises? Lies?
Aside from concept arts of the big bad guy, some maps or modeled terrain, are we there yet to be presented more? Beside saying there will high end PvE stuff, what would be pertinent and convincing?
To be fair, you don't need abilities to design content. You can do it without abilities. Abilities help you fine tune or add specific mechanics. The point is that there is almost zero reference to raids. The last time I remember Steven said something along the lines of bosses will change based on how fast you kill them.
That's it. Nothing about mechanics, what you might need, encounters or how they plan to have lots of them that are different.
Just wondering (this isn't a targeted question so feel free to jump in if you wish)
Do you think that there could be a high end PvE boss/dungeon/raid, think of hard ones or ones you've enjoyed from other games, that could work in the AoC setting of potentially coming into contact with other groups trying to complete it? Or would this just be too much to actually complete?
It's not hard to make something decent, we just haven't seen it.
It probably would not meet the challenge standards of a top end raider from a PvE focused game, but there are techniques to make a few.
The issue, if any, is that the types become limited, and therefore the number of meaningful encounters required to support a 'raiding scene' would not be enough. This is the general answer to this question. If Intrepid either 'creates a new raiding scene concept' or 'drops the idea that they will have a core one' (it's not as if it's a very strong appeal point for the game) then I believe they could make enough of them.
I can think of about 50-80 encounters (not all Raid/Alliance) in FF11 that can be PvP-enabled and still work correctly, but that's still only 2-5% of the content.
Dungeons & Raids both open world and instanced, POIs, Narrative events, world events with stuff like invasions etc, regional and world bosses, treasure hunting, Housing, 23 different professions across gathering crafting and processing,
Saying AoC has no PVE should be a bannable offense lol
Bro, that's not PvE. That's filler content. It's like saying that Arenas 1v1 is PvP, and that's all you have.
That's the problem. You people think PvE is that, but it's not. It won't satisfy PvE players.
PvErs want to run dungeons and raids, not pick flowers.
Seems like it's not your type of PVE, but it's inherently pve.
To be clear, we are talking about PvE for specific PvE players. We don't bother going in to the details of it in every post for breveities sake. By PvE in the context of these discussions, we are talking abotu PvE content where the challenge comes from the PvE itself, not the PvP associated with it, and idealy where that challenge is high.
Idk if any of us are in a situation to say that PVE content in Ashes won't be challenging though either.
If PvP exists in conjunction with the PvE aspect, and the encounter is designed to be able to be killed with that in place, then most of the challenge can't be coming from the PvE aspect.
At this point, it comes down to Intrepids intentions rather than specific encounter design. This is why them detailing (or even outlining) their intentions in relation to this content is enough.
A solution to this could be different mechanics while PvP is involved. I couldn't even begin to think of how the AI would know to react but if it fights one way when PvP is active, and another when only one group is focusing it, that could potentially solve the issue you're worried about if it's done correctly
While this could be interesting, it would also be abused.
Yea if it is left too basic. I feel like if it was somehow based off the damage each group was doing to eachother it may no be as abused
The problem with this is that if it were in the game, you may not be able to abuse it very well, but I (or anyone with the same tools as me) would be able to.
Finding the sweet spot in terms of the amount of damage my guild needs to do to itself (or using a "non-allied" guild is that is needed) in order to get the encounter to the easiest state we can is simply a matter of trial and error.
To be clear though, I do think the idea has merit, and really is an interesting thing to think about.
Just wondering (this isn't a targeted question so feel free to jump in if you wish)
Do you think that there could be a high end PvE boss/dungeon/raid, think of hard ones or ones you've enjoyed from other games, that could work in the AoC setting of potentially coming into contact with other groups trying to complete it? Or would this just be too much to actually complete?
Personally I think bosses should be difficult, but not to the point like in retail WoW where you need several add-ons to manage getting through them.
My opinion is that they should be that difficult, take longer, but those tools should be built in to the game - what ever tools are needed. I'm more than happy with them being guild perks.
Just wondering (this isn't a targeted question so feel free to jump in if you wish)
Do you think that there could be a high end PvE boss/dungeon/raid, think of hard ones or ones you've enjoyed from other games, that could work in the AoC setting of potentially coming into contact with other groups trying to complete it? Or would this just be too much to actually complete?
If you are talking about actual top end encounters, no, they are not possible when coming in to contact with others (assuming PvP).
You could drop down a few tiers of difficulty and have something that works, but not actual top end encounters.
I appreciate the replies, it's really interesting as I'm not typically someone who will do what the best PvE players and guilds do with raids and that.
I quite like the idea of the conflict in these encounters but can absolutely see that for those players/guilds who don't this is a big issue.
Do you think it could work if you fought for control of the dungeon or something then you have access to it? Not sure just trying to see if there's a way to have that high end PvE encounter and have the threat of PvP.
I appreciate the replies, it's really interesting as I'm not typically someone who will do what the best PvE players and guilds do with raids and that.
I quite like the idea of the conflict in these encounters but can absolutely see that for those players/guilds who don't this is a big issue.
Do you think it could work if you fought for control of the dungeon or something then you have access to it? Not sure just trying to see if there's a way to have that high end PvE encounter and have the threat of PvP.
I think many people who consider PvE challenge to be their preferred game flow, would still like this.
However, my parse of this thread does not have any responses from that player type other than the usual trio, so it's hard to say until Alpha-2 or at least 'the next hype cycle powerful enough to change the forum population again'.
Dungeons & Raids both open world and instanced, POIs, Narrative events, world events with stuff like invasions etc, regional and world bosses, treasure hunting, Housing, 23 different professions across gathering crafting and processing,
Saying AoC has no PVE should be a bannable offense lol
Bro, that's not PvE. That's filler content. It's like saying that Arenas 1v1 is PvP, and that's all you have.
That's the problem. You people think PvE is that, but it's not. It won't satisfy PvE players.
PvErs want to run dungeons and raids, not pick flowers.
Seems like it's not your type of PVE, but it's inherently pve.
To be clear, we are talking about PvE for specific PvE players. We don't bother going in to the details of it in every post for breveities sake. By PvE in the context of these discussions, we are talking abotu PvE content where the challenge comes from the PvE itself, not the PvP associated with it, and idealy where that challenge is high.
Idk if any of us are in a situation to say that PVE content in Ashes won't be challenging though either.
If PvP exists in conjunction with the PvE aspect, and the encounter is designed to be able to be killed with that in place, then most of the challenge can't be coming from the PvE aspect.
At this point, it comes down to Intrepids intentions rather than specific encounter design. This is why them detailing (or even outlining) their intentions in relation to this content is enough.
A solution to this could be different mechanics while PvP is involved. I couldn't even begin to think of how the AI would know to react but if it fights one way when PvP is active, and another when only one group is focusing it, that could potentially solve the issue you're worried about if it's done correctly
While this could be interesting, it would also be abused.
Yea if it is left too basic. I feel like if it was somehow based off the damage each group was doing to eachother it may no be as abused
The problem with this is that if it were in the game, you may not be able to abuse it very well, but I (or anyone with the same tools as me) would be able to.
Finding the sweet spot in terms of the amount of damage my guild needs to do to itself (or using a "non-allied" guild is that is needed) in order to get the encounter to the easiest state we can is simply a matter of trial and error.
To be clear though, I do think the idea has merit, and really is an interesting thing to think about.
Just wondering (this isn't a targeted question so feel free to jump in if you wish)
Do you think that there could be a high end PvE boss/dungeon/raid, think of hard ones or ones you've enjoyed from other games, that could work in the AoC setting of potentially coming into contact with other groups trying to complete it? Or would this just be too much to actually complete?
Personally I think bosses should be difficult, but not to the point like in retail WoW where you need several add-ons to manage getting through them.
My opinion is that they should be that difficult, take longer, but those tools should be built in to the game - what ever tools are needed. I'm more than happy with them being guild perks.
I mean that will be done regardless of any mechanic. There will always be those finding the meta. But at least with the PvP mechanical change route, there's still the threat of another group interrupting that path of abuse.
And if there are tools in the game to give the same purpose as add-ons then yea go nuts with boss difficulty, at that point they arent add-ons. My point was more or less don't require a 3rd party program to be able to complete the games content.
Can IS showcase a top end raid encounter without all archetypes presented first? Can they show anything without revealing these archetypes' abilities sets? How representative would showcasing that encounter with place holders or incomplete sets be? Would it be received as false promises? Lies?
Aside from concept arts of the big bad guy, some maps or modeled terrain, are we there yet to be presented more? Beside saying there will high end PvE stuff, what would be pertinent and convincing?
To be fair, you don't need abilities to design content. You can do it without abilities. Abilities help you fine tune or add specific mechanics. The point is that there is almost zero reference to raids. The last time I remember Steven said something along the lines of bosses will change based on how fast you kill them.
That's it. Nothing about mechanics, what you might need, encounters or how they plan to have lots of them that are different.
My question was more about what can be presented or showcase at this stage of development and how to present it without alluding/spoiling/revealing other aspects (archetypes, lore, etc) they reserve for their own special showcases. A technical dev update would be great, it's been a while since we've got one. All the latest demonstrations were from a "in world" perspective, good visual demonstrations, but harder to present incomplete / not ready concepts.
Dungeons & Raids both open world and instanced, POIs, Narrative events, world events with stuff like invasions etc, regional and world bosses, treasure hunting, Housing, 23 different professions across gathering crafting and processing,
Saying AoC has no PVE should be a bannable offense lol
Bro, that's not PvE. That's filler content. It's like saying that Arenas 1v1 is PvP, and that's all you have.
That's the problem. You people think PvE is that, but it's not. It won't satisfy PvE players.
PvErs want to run dungeons and raids, not pick flowers.
Seems like it's not your type of PVE, but it's inherently pve.
To be clear, we are talking about PvE for specific PvE players. We don't bother going in to the details of it in every post for breveities sake. By PvE in the context of these discussions, we are talking abotu PvE content where the challenge comes from the PvE itself, not the PvP associated with it, and idealy where that challenge is high.
Idk if any of us are in a situation to say that PVE content in Ashes won't be challenging though either.
If PvP exists in conjunction with the PvE aspect, and the encounter is designed to be able to be killed with that in place, then most of the challenge can't be coming from the PvE aspect.
At this point, it comes down to Intrepids intentions rather than specific encounter design. This is why them detailing (or even outlining) their intentions in relation to this content is enough.
Yeah I don't know how you can make this statement yet. I have had plenty of pve encounters in games that were much, much more difficult than the pvp. Elden Ring comes to mind. It's possible for sure.
Comments
It really is amusing, and they really are pathetic.
Fragile self-esteem: Despite their outward confidence, narcissists may have a fragile self-esteem that is easily threatened by criticism or perceived rejection.
Difficulty handling criticism: They are highly sensitive to criticism and may react defensively or aggressively when their flaws or mistakes are pointed out.
Lack of accountability: Narcissists may have difficulty taking responsibility for their actions and may blame others for their problems or mistakes.
Ignores half the points of others and sums it up as anti-mob, to his own bad take. Imagine someone spreading misinformation on the forums and being called out. While trying to rely on the 1-2 people that agree with him no matter what as a life boat.
I did it intentionally lol as a joke for the whole narcisim and me not reading your messages thing, hence the "for real now" on the message below,
you take things too seriously, I will add the sarcasm disclaimer next time
Seems like it's not your type of PVE, but it's inherently pve.
Don't misrepresent people - not even as a joke. Not even with a sarcasm tag.
To be clear, we are talking about PvE for specific PvE players. We don't bother going in to the details of it in every post for breveities sake. By PvE in the context of these discussions, we are talking abotu PvE content where the challenge comes from the PvE itself, not the PvP associated with it, and idealy where that challenge is high.
Difficulty handling criticism: They are highly sensitive to criticism and may react defensively or aggressively when their flaws or mistakes are pointed out.
Lack of accountability: Narcissists may have difficulty taking responsibility for their actions and may blame others for their problems or mistakes.
Dial it back please, it's a Monday Morning.
Idk if any of us are in a situation to say that PVE content in Ashes won't be challenging though either.
I agree to discuss the issues with the game we can think of. My only problem with what you were saying was disregarding things simply because they haven't got around to showing the end of it yet. After reading through the other posts after this one, I see it's mostly end game content you are referring to, but while that is a huge part of the PvE experience as well, not only do we need hands on that content to actually tell if it is good or bad, but all of the other content leading up to it is still PvE.
I do think having an AI designer and a boss mechanic dev come on and just explain a few ideas and their direction of raid bosses/dungeon bosses would be a great idea. No need to all out show the raid, just the concepts of how they plan to do things as far as how many mechanics there are, phases, hiw environment comes into play, what can happen when PvP gets involved, intended group compositions and numbers of players for a boss. Etc
But yea, my only gripe with you earlier is that to many, it sounds like you are claiming that there is no PvE content at all. But what it seems that you're really meaning to say is that you haven't seen any end game PvE you regard as quality yet.
Because I personally don't like them separated? I don't see the point you are trying to make here. Instanced PvP is still definitely PvP. Instanced PvE is still PvE. Making them not Instanced doesn't change what they are, it just let's them intermingle. Are you a PvE server advocate or something?
If PvP exists in conjunction with the PvE aspect, and the encounter is designed to be able to be killed with that in place, then most of the challenge can't be coming from the PvE aspect.
At this point, it comes down to Intrepids intentions rather than specific encounter design. This is why them detailing (or even outlining) their intentions in relation to this content is enough.
A solution to this could be different mechanics while PvP is involved. I couldn't even begin to think of how the AI would know to react but if it fights one way when PvP is active, and another when only one group is focusing it, that could potentially solve the issue you're worried about if it's done correctly
While this could be interesting, it would also be abused.
Yea if it is left too basic. I feel like if it was somehow based off the damage each group was doing to eachother it may no be as abused
Do you think that there could be a high end PvE boss/dungeon/raid, think of hard ones or ones you've enjoyed from other games, that could work in the AoC setting of potentially coming into contact with other groups trying to complete it? Or would this just be too much to actually complete?
Personally I think bosses should be difficult, but not to the point like in retail WoW where you need several add-ons to manage getting through them.
To be fair, you don't need abilities to design content. You can do it without abilities. Abilities help you fine tune or add specific mechanics. The point is that there is almost zero reference to raids. The last time I remember Steven said something along the lines of bosses will change based on how fast you kill them.
That's it. Nothing about mechanics, what you might need, encounters or how they plan to have lots of them that are different.
It's not hard to make something decent, we just haven't seen it.
It probably would not meet the challenge standards of a top end raider from a PvE focused game, but there are techniques to make a few.
The issue, if any, is that the types become limited, and therefore the number of meaningful encounters required to support a 'raiding scene' would not be enough. This is the general answer to this question. If Intrepid either 'creates a new raiding scene concept' or 'drops the idea that they will have a core one' (it's not as if it's a very strong appeal point for the game) then I believe they could make enough of them.
I can think of about 50-80 encounters (not all Raid/Alliance) in FF11 that can be PvP-enabled and still work correctly, but that's still only 2-5% of the content.
The problem with this is that if it were in the game, you may not be able to abuse it very well, but I (or anyone with the same tools as me) would be able to.
Finding the sweet spot in terms of the amount of damage my guild needs to do to itself (or using a "non-allied" guild is that is needed) in order to get the encounter to the easiest state we can is simply a matter of trial and error.
To be clear though, I do think the idea has merit, and really is an interesting thing to think about.
My opinion is that they should be that difficult, take longer, but those tools should be built in to the game - what ever tools are needed. I'm more than happy with them being guild perks.
If you are talking about actual top end encounters, no, they are not possible when coming in to contact with others (assuming PvP).
You could drop down a few tiers of difficulty and have something that works, but not actual top end encounters.
I quite like the idea of the conflict in these encounters but can absolutely see that for those players/guilds who don't this is a big issue.
Do you think it could work if you fought for control of the dungeon or something then you have access to it? Not sure just trying to see if there's a way to have that high end PvE encounter and have the threat of PvP.
I think many people who consider PvE challenge to be their preferred game flow, would still like this.
However, my parse of this thread does not have any responses from that player type other than the usual trio, so it's hard to say until Alpha-2 or at least 'the next hype cycle powerful enough to change the forum population again'.
I mean that will be done regardless of any mechanic. There will always be those finding the meta. But at least with the PvP mechanical change route, there's still the threat of another group interrupting that path of abuse.
And if there are tools in the game to give the same purpose as add-ons then yea go nuts with boss difficulty, at that point they arent add-ons. My point was more or less don't require a 3rd party program to be able to complete the games content.
Nah I remember the dps meter thread haha
My question was more about what can be presented or showcase at this stage of development and how to present it without alluding/spoiling/revealing other aspects (archetypes, lore, etc) they reserve for their own special showcases. A technical dev update would be great, it's been a while since we've got one. All the latest demonstrations were from a "in world" perspective, good visual demonstrations, but harder to present incomplete / not ready concepts.
We might see some of this in the next dev update.
You mean that thread where I said Intrepid should build a combat tracker in to the game client?
Yes lmao. I'm up in the air about it anymore.
Yeah I don't know how you can make this statement yet. I have had plenty of pve encounters in games that were much, much more difficult than the pvp. Elden Ring comes to mind. It's possible for sure.