The Bard could be the other "other" support class

Don't give the cleric any dispels. Here's why:

In most MMOs the game tends to be either a Holy Trinity system or a split responsibility system. Ashes is a blend of the 2, with the class augment system, that has been said to allow almost any class to perform any needed role, while maintaining the Trinity requirements.
Seeing the lack of status dispelling abilities in the cleric update showcase, it got me wondering why that responsibility is normally a healer centric one in the first place. I think the bard could be the archetype that enforces (or makes an optional) 4th party requirement: Dispelling debuffs and giving buffs and combat enhancements.

I believe this will help individual players within ashes 8 player party system feel more important, and it will help offset the top heavy amount of DPS in a party.
It could open up opportunity's to make bosses do more raid/party wide damage since a healers attention won't be split between 2 duties, making fights a little harder.
It would give off meta DPS classes a way to still gear appropriately without being shunned to a healing role. (Those ret players exist and I am here for them.)

Some examples I was thinking of:
A rouge bard could give an AoE stealth to party members to help them skip a difficult area or get the drop on a contesting group.
A tank bard could make some sort of spirit mitigation link between themselves and the tank that forks damage.
A true bard could provide pre combat buffs and use cooldowns that increase damage by a percentage or casting and attack speed, (like heroism in WoW).

You get the idea. I love when games offer different ways to be useful, besides griding numbers together, It makes a more social and fun experience.

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Comments

George_Black

That's the plan. There is no trinity in AoC.

Vissox

George_Black wrote: »

That's the plan. There is no trinity in AoC.

I wouldn't say there isn't a trinity at all at least mechanically speaking, but I would agree that there is no locked class identity, which is awesome.

iccer

I'm fairly sure that's how it's going to work.

There will be a trinity, for sure, with Bards being kind of a 4th, support group, that will mix dmg, buffs/debuffs, and healing, depending on how you spec it, though obviously leaning more into support, rather than pure healer or pure dps.

Vissox

iccer wrote: »

I'm fairly sure that's how it's going to work.

There will be a trinity, for sure, with Bards being kind of a 4th, support group, that will mix dmg, buffs/debuffs, and healing, depending on how you spec it, though obviously leaning more into support, rather than pure healer or pure dps.

I'm pretty happy with that. I hope it is good enough to where players won't overlook it for another DPS class.

Vyril

George_Black wrote: »

That's the plan. There is no trinity in AoC.

They've specifically have said "trinity". Even in the last live stream.

Tank, DPS, Support (healing).

But with that said it's more likely 4. Tank, DPS, Support, Healing. It will really come down to if they make bard a primary healer, or strictly support.

KingDDD

Cleanse should be a secondary utility; Clerics should get the ability to spec into it with some investment. Bards should be "better", but it shouldn't be such a difference than Clerics cant do all but the hardest of group content.

Gating content behind one primary class is no good.

daveywavey

Vyril wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

That's the plan. There is no trinity in AoC.

They've specifically have said "trinity". Even in the last live stream.

Tank, DPS, Support (healing).

But with that said it's more likely 4. Tank, DPS, Support, Healing. It will really come down to if they make bard a primary healer, or strictly support.

A trinity of four.....

SirChancelot

We have our eight base archetypes; and the trinity is a pretty strong influence with regards to the eight base classes. However the area in which we actually begin to play with that line between the trinity is in the secondary classes that you can pick. That's where we begin to blend those spaces and allow people a little bit of influence over their role and whether or not they fit perfectly within a particular category within the trinity.[5] – Steven Sharif

So Trinity, with blending via augments.

Depraved

fournity hahaha

a healer is a support btw..

Vyril

Depraved wrote: »

fournity hahaha

a healer is a support btw..

daveywavey wrote: »

Vyril wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

That's the plan. There is no trinity in AoC.

They've specifically have said "trinity". Even in the last live stream.

Tank, DPS, Support (healing).

But with that said it's more likely 4. Tank, DPS, Support, Healing. It will really come down to if they make bard a primary healer, or strictly support.

A trinity of four.....

Correct, but not all support are healers. You probably won't do as well without a cleric.

So holy trinity is Tank, DPS, Cleric. Then you add support. 8 man groups add 5 more besides the trinity. Most high end content probably won't need two tanks. Maybe a fighter off-tank. A good chance for 2 clerics and likely a Bard support. The rest dps/support classes.

Bard will likely be so good at support it will be mandatory. Quadrality

But the showcases and the most complete archetypes are clearly trinity, and the balance will expand from there.

Leiloni

Vissox wrote: »

iccer wrote: »

I'm fairly sure that's how it's going to work.

There will be a trinity, for sure, with Bards being kind of a 4th, support group, that will mix dmg, buffs/debuffs, and healing, depending on how you spec it, though obviously leaning more into support, rather than pure healer or pure dps.

I'm pretty happy with that. I hope it is good enough to where players won't overlook it for another DPS class.

They've said they intend for Bard to be a needed role in every party. So Tank, Cleric, Bard, and DPS (although I suspect most parties will also want a Summoner). Although Bard will be a non-healing support so Cleric will have healing (and I assume also cleansing and we saw dps and CC to an extent). Bard will have a bunch of cool debuffs, buffs, some dps and CC too I'm sure. Should be fun.

SirChancelot

Vyril wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

fournity hahaha

a healer is a support btw..

daveywavey wrote: »

Vyril wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

That's the plan. There is no trinity in AoC.

They've specifically have said "trinity". Even in the last live stream.

Tank, DPS, Support (healing).

But with that said it's more likely 4. Tank, DPS, Support, Healing. It will really come down to if they make bard a primary healer, or strictly support.

A trinity of four.....

Correct, but not all support are healers. You probably won't do as well without a cleric.

So holy trinity is Tank, DPS, Cleric. Then you add support. 8 man groups add 5 more besides the trinity. Most high end content probably won't need two tanks. Maybe a fighter off-tank. A good chance for 2 clerics and likely a Bard support. The rest dps/support classes.

Bard will likely be so good at support it will be mandatory. Quadrality

But the showcases and the most complete archetypes are clearly trinity, and the balance will expand from there.

We still don't know the extent of what secondary archetypes will be able to change the primary. A fighter/tank may be able to tank group content if he is built to tank. A bard/cleric could be able to heal a group of their skill choices focus on that.

Percimes

Vyril wrote: »

So holy trinity is Tank, DPS, Cleric. Then you add support. 8 man groups add 5 more besides the trinity. Most high end content probably won't need two tanks. Maybe a fighter off-tank. A good chance for 2 clerics and likely a Bard support. The rest dps/support classes.

Bard will likely be so good at support it will be mandatory. Quadrality

In this scenarios, who's the unlucky and undesired archetype?

The untouchable two of the trinity, a bard support, and the many choices of fillers for the dps spots.

Vyril

SirChancelot wrote: »

Vyril wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

fournity hahaha

a healer is a support btw..

daveywavey wrote: »

Vyril wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

That's the plan. There is no trinity in AoC.

They've specifically have said "trinity". Even in the last live stream.

Tank, DPS, Support (healing).

But with that said it's more likely 4. Tank, DPS, Support, Healing. It will really come down to if they make bard a primary healer, or strictly support.

A trinity of four.....

Correct, but not all support are healers. You probably won't do as well without a cleric.

So holy trinity is Tank, DPS, Cleric. Then you add support. 8 man groups add 5 more besides the trinity. Most high end content probably won't need two tanks. Maybe a fighter off-tank. A good chance for 2 clerics and likely a Bard support. The rest dps/support classes.

Bard will likely be so good at support it will be mandatory. Quadrality

But the showcases and the most complete archetypes are clearly trinity, and the balance will expand from there.

We still don't know the extent of what secondary archetypes will be able to change the primary. A fighter/tank may be able to tank group content if he is built to tank. A bard/cleric could be able to heal a group of their skill choices focus on that.

This is true, but if a Tank can't do what it's primary role is better than an augmented fighter/tank can do. That's crap design.

Bard currently by known information is support first class, and if it can heal as a Bard/Cleric it should also not be better than a Cleric because once again it's a crap design.

Could you get away with it in some content? Sure, but high-end content, not likely.

You shouldn't devalue the archetypes primary role. That will be a feel bad moment for those players.

Azherae

Vyril wrote: »

SirChancelot wrote: »

Vyril wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

fournity hahaha

a healer is a support btw..

daveywavey wrote: »

Vyril wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

That's the plan. There is no trinity in AoC.

They've specifically have said "trinity". Even in the last live stream.

Tank, DPS, Support (healing).

But with that said it's more likely 4. Tank, DPS, Support, Healing. It will really come down to if they make bard a primary healer, or strictly support.

A trinity of four.....

Correct, but not all support are healers. You probably won't do as well without a cleric.

So holy trinity is Tank, DPS, Cleric. Then you add support. 8 man groups add 5 more besides the trinity. Most high end content probably won't need two tanks. Maybe a fighter off-tank. A good chance for 2 clerics and likely a Bard support. The rest dps/support classes.

Bard will likely be so good at support it will be mandatory. Quadrality

But the showcases and the most complete archetypes are clearly trinity, and the balance will expand from there.

We still don't know the extent of what secondary archetypes will be able to change the primary. A fighter/tank may be able to tank group content if he is built to tank. A bard/cleric could be able to heal a group of their skill choices focus on that.

This is true, but if a Tank can't do what it's primary role is better than an augmented fighter/tank can do. That's crap design.

Bard currently by known information is support first class, and if it can heal as a Bard/Cleric it should also not be better than a Cleric because once again it's a crap design.

Could you get away with it in some content? Sure, but high-end content, not likely.

You shouldn't devalue the archetypes primary role. That will be a feel bad moment for those players.

It's not quite like that though.

Coming from a similar game...

Sometimes a non-optimal tank can suffice because the party composition is full of 'low threat generation DPS'. Sometimes they suffice because the enemy targets primarily don't do a lot of damage but do a lot of negative statuses and the healer's job just falls to 'remove those statuses from whoever has them, but Tanks tend to resist them the most'.

Sometimes a Bard is sufficient as a healer because the mitigation and other healing across all other characters is sufficient.

This doesn't really feel bad unless it becomes super meta somehow, and with enough enemy variety/ecology, it generally doesn't become very meta.

Vyril

Azherae wrote: »

Vyril wrote: »

SirChancelot wrote: »

Vyril wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

fournity hahaha

a healer is a support btw..

daveywavey wrote: »

Vyril wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

That's the plan. There is no trinity in AoC.

They've specifically have said "trinity". Even in the last live stream.

Tank, DPS, Support (healing).

But with that said it's more likely 4. Tank, DPS, Support, Healing. It will really come down to if they make bard a primary healer, or strictly support.

A trinity of four.....

Correct, but not all support are healers. You probably won't do as well without a cleric.

So holy trinity is Tank, DPS, Cleric. Then you add support. 8 man groups add 5 more besides the trinity. Most high end content probably won't need two tanks. Maybe a fighter off-tank. A good chance for 2 clerics and likely a Bard support. The rest dps/support classes.

Bard will likely be so good at support it will be mandatory. Quadrality

But the showcases and the most complete archetypes are clearly trinity, and the balance will expand from there.

We still don't know the extent of what secondary archetypes will be able to change the primary. A fighter/tank may be able to tank group content if he is built to tank. A bard/cleric could be able to heal a group of their skill choices focus on that.

This is true, but if a Tank can't do what it's primary role is better than an augmented fighter/tank can do. That's crap design.

Bard currently by known information is support first class, and if it can heal as a Bard/Cleric it should also not be better than a Cleric because once again it's a crap design.

Could you get away with it in some content? Sure, but high-end content, not likely.

You shouldn't devalue the archetypes primary role. That will be a feel bad moment for those players.

It's not quite like that though.

Coming from a similar game...

Sometimes a non-optimal tank can suffice because the party composition is full of 'low threat generation DPS'. Sometimes they suffice because the enemy targets primarily don't do a lot of damage but do a lot of negative statuses and the healer's job just falls to 'remove those statuses from whoever has them, but Tanks tend to resist them the most'.

Sometimes a Bard is sufficient as a healer because the mitigation and other healing across all other characters is sufficient.

This doesn't really feel bad unless it becomes super meta somehow, and with enough enemy variety/ecology, it generally doesn't become very meta.

Which game? Which content, and what was the actual group makeup?

Let's just say that's true. You're saying content that is designed for the best only Tank archetype could be filled with a non-tank archetype?

Azherae

Vyril wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

Vyril wrote: »

SirChancelot wrote: »

Vyril wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

fournity hahaha

a healer is a support btw..

daveywavey wrote: »

Vyril wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

That's the plan. There is no trinity in AoC.

They've specifically have said "trinity". Even in the last live stream.

Tank, DPS, Support (healing).

But with that said it's more likely 4. Tank, DPS, Support, Healing. It will really come down to if they make bard a primary healer, or strictly support.

A trinity of four.....

Correct, but not all support are healers. You probably won't do as well without a cleric.

So holy trinity is Tank, DPS, Cleric. Then you add support. 8 man groups add 5 more besides the trinity. Most high end content probably won't need two tanks. Maybe a fighter off-tank. A good chance for 2 clerics and likely a Bard support. The rest dps/support classes.

Bard will likely be so good at support it will be mandatory. Quadrality

But the showcases and the most complete archetypes are clearly trinity, and the balance will expand from there.

We still don't know the extent of what secondary archetypes will be able to change the primary. A fighter/tank may be able to tank group content if he is built to tank. A bard/cleric could be able to heal a group of their skill choices focus on that.

This is true, but if a Tank can't do what it's primary role is better than an augmented fighter/tank can do. That's crap design.

Bard currently by known information is support first class, and if it can heal as a Bard/Cleric it should also not be better than a Cleric because once again it's a crap design.

Could you get away with it in some content? Sure, but high-end content, not likely.

You shouldn't devalue the archetypes primary role. That will be a feel bad moment for those players.

It's not quite like that though.

Coming from a similar game...

Sometimes a non-optimal tank can suffice because the party composition is full of 'low threat generation DPS'. Sometimes they suffice because the enemy targets primarily don't do a lot of damage but do a lot of negative statuses and the healer's job just falls to 'remove those statuses from whoever has them, but Tanks tend to resist them the most'.

Sometimes a Bard is sufficient as a healer because the mitigation and other healing across all other characters is sufficient.

This doesn't really feel bad unless it becomes super meta somehow, and with enough enemy variety/ecology, it generally doesn't become very meta.

Which game? Which content, and what was the actual group makeup?

Let's just say that's true. You're saying content that is designed for the best tank archetype should be filled with a non-tank archetype?

ok...

I didn't say that and neither does Intrepid.

Though those situations do exist. Niche tanking is absolutely a thing. But the entire point is that it's niche. When you form a guild or even a static group, you don't go 'Ok we only need this BRD/NIN to tank everything so we don't need any PLD'.

That doesn't mean that there aren't entire sessions where the PLD isn't on where you go 'eh it's fine we'll go up to Fei'Yin and the BRD/NIN can just tank everything'.

There are quite often situations where the optimal Tank is not the Tank, but 'optimal' is not 'reliable'.

Vyril

Azherae wrote: »

Vyril wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

Vyril wrote: »

SirChancelot wrote: »

Vyril wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

fournity hahaha

a healer is a support btw..

daveywavey wrote: »

Vyril wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

That's the plan. There is no trinity in AoC.

They've specifically have said "trinity". Even in the last live stream.

Tank, DPS, Support (healing).

But with that said it's more likely 4. Tank, DPS, Support, Healing. It will really come down to if they make bard a primary healer, or strictly support.

A trinity of four.....

Correct, but not all support are healers. You probably won't do as well without a cleric.

So holy trinity is Tank, DPS, Cleric. Then you add support. 8 man groups add 5 more besides the trinity. Most high end content probably won't need two tanks. Maybe a fighter off-tank. A good chance for 2 clerics and likely a Bard support. The rest dps/support classes.

Bard will likely be so good at support it will be mandatory. Quadrality

But the showcases and the most complete archetypes are clearly trinity, and the balance will expand from there.

We still don't know the extent of what secondary archetypes will be able to change the primary. A fighter/tank may be able to tank group content if he is built to tank. A bard/cleric could be able to heal a group of their skill choices focus on that.

This is true, but if a Tank can't do what it's primary role is better than an augmented fighter/tank can do. That's crap design.

Bard currently by known information is support first class, and if it can heal as a Bard/Cleric it should also not be better than a Cleric because once again it's a crap design.

Could you get away with it in some content? Sure, but high-end content, not likely.

You shouldn't devalue the archetypes primary role. That will be a feel bad moment for those players.

It's not quite like that though.

Coming from a similar game...

Sometimes a non-optimal tank can suffice because the party composition is full of 'low threat generation DPS'. Sometimes they suffice because the enemy targets primarily don't do a lot of damage but do a lot of negative statuses and the healer's job just falls to 'remove those statuses from whoever has them, but Tanks tend to resist them the most'.

Sometimes a Bard is sufficient as a healer because the mitigation and other healing across all other characters is sufficient.

This doesn't really feel bad unless it becomes super meta somehow, and with enough enemy variety/ecology, it generally doesn't become very meta.

Which game? Which content, and what was the actual group makeup?

Let's just say that's true. You're saying content that is designed for the best tank archetype should be filled with a non-tank archetype?

ok...

I didn't say that and neither does Intrepid.

Though those situations do exist. Niche tanking is absolutely a thing. But the entire point is that it's niche. When you form a guild or even a static group, you don't go 'Ok we only need this BRD/NIN to tank everything so we don't need any PLD'.

That doesn't mean that there aren't entire sessions where the PLD isn't on where you go 'eh it's fine we'll go up to Fei'Yin and the BRD/NIN can just tank everything'.

There are quite often situations where the optimal Tank is not the Tank, but 'optimal' is not 'reliable'.

Vyril wrote: »

SirChancelot wrote: »

Vyril wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

fournity hahaha

a healer is a support btw..

daveywavey wrote: »

Vyril wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

That's the plan. There is no trinity in AoC.

They've specifically have said "trinity". Even in the last live stream.

Tank, DPS, Support (healing).

But with that said it's more likely 4. Tank, DPS, Support, Healing. It will really come down to if they make bard a primary healer, or strictly support.

A trinity of four.....

Correct, but not all support are healers. You probably won't do as well without a cleric.

So holy trinity is Tank, DPS, Cleric. Then you add support. 8 man groups add 5 more besides the trinity. Most high end content probably won't need two tanks. Maybe a fighter off-tank. A good chance for 2 clerics and likely a Bard support. The rest dps/support classes.

Bard will likely be so good at support it will be mandatory. Quadrality

But the showcases and the most complete archetypes are clearly trinity, and the balance will expand from there.

We still don't know the extent of what secondary archetypes will be able to change the primary. A fighter/tank may be able to tank group content if he is built to tank. A bard/cleric could be able to heal a group of their skill choices focus on that.

Could you get away with it in some content? Sure, but high-end content, not likely.

Ok, that's why I did make an exception in my previous statement.

Vyril

Percimes wrote: »

Vyril wrote: »

So holy trinity is Tank, DPS, Cleric. Then you add support. 8 man groups add 5 more besides the trinity. Most high end content probably won't need two tanks. Maybe a fighter off-tank. A good chance for 2 clerics and likely a Bard support. The rest dps/support classes.

Bard will likely be so good at support it will be mandatory. Quadrality

In this scenarios, who's the unlucky and undesired archetype?

The untouchable two of the trinity, a bard support, and the many choices of fillers for the dps spots.

Well at that point, you're going to look at the content type, and decide which CLASS will fulfill the roles of support / DPS with abilities that will make that content easier.

Also obviously wiggle room, and at some point subject to balance.

Even if you go TANK / CLERIC / BARD - you still have room for 5 DPS Archetypes with DPS or Support Augments.

But since A2 at the start will be augment-lite, we're really just looking at archetype balancing.

Azherae

Vyril wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

Vyril wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

Vyril wrote: »

SirChancelot wrote: »

Vyril wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

fournity hahaha

a healer is a support btw..

daveywavey wrote: »

Vyril wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

That's the plan. There is no trinity in AoC.

They've specifically have said "trinity". Even in the last live stream.

Tank, DPS, Support (healing).

But with that said it's more likely 4. Tank, DPS, Support, Healing. It will really come down to if they make bard a primary healer, or strictly support.

A trinity of four.....

Correct, but not all support are healers. You probably won't do as well without a cleric.

So holy trinity is Tank, DPS, Cleric. Then you add support. 8 man groups add 5 more besides the trinity. Most high end content probably won't need two tanks. Maybe a fighter off-tank. A good chance for 2 clerics and likely a Bard support. The rest dps/support classes.

Bard will likely be so good at support it will be mandatory. Quadrality

But the showcases and the most complete archetypes are clearly trinity, and the balance will expand from there.

We still don't know the extent of what secondary archetypes will be able to change the primary. A fighter/tank may be able to tank group content if he is built to tank. A bard/cleric could be able to heal a group of their skill choices focus on that.

This is true, but if a Tank can't do what it's primary role is better than an augmented fighter/tank can do. That's crap design.

Bard currently by known information is support first class, and if it can heal as a Bard/Cleric it should also not be better than a Cleric because once again it's a crap design.

Could you get away with it in some content? Sure, but high-end content, not likely.

You shouldn't devalue the archetypes primary role. That will be a feel bad moment for those players.

It's not quite like that though.

Coming from a similar game...

Sometimes a non-optimal tank can suffice because the party composition is full of 'low threat generation DPS'. Sometimes they suffice because the enemy targets primarily don't do a lot of damage but do a lot of negative statuses and the healer's job just falls to 'remove those statuses from whoever has them, but Tanks tend to resist them the most'.

Sometimes a Bard is sufficient as a healer because the mitigation and other healing across all other characters is sufficient.

This doesn't really feel bad unless it becomes super meta somehow, and with enough enemy variety/ecology, it generally doesn't become very meta.

Which game? Which content, and what was the actual group makeup?

Let's just say that's true. You're saying content that is designed for the best tank archetype should be filled with a non-tank archetype?

ok...

I didn't say that and neither does Intrepid.

Though those situations do exist. Niche tanking is absolutely a thing. But the entire point is that it's niche. When you form a guild or even a static group, you don't go 'Ok we only need this BRD/NIN to tank everything so we don't need any PLD'.

That doesn't mean that there aren't entire sessions where the PLD isn't on where you go 'eh it's fine we'll go up to Fei'Yin and the BRD/NIN can just tank everything'.

There are quite often situations where the optimal Tank is not the Tank, but 'optimal' is not 'reliable'.

Vyril wrote: »

SirChancelot wrote: »

Vyril wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

fournity hahaha

a healer is a support btw..

daveywavey wrote: »

Vyril wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

That's the plan. There is no trinity in AoC.

They've specifically have said "trinity". Even in the last live stream.

Tank, DPS, Support (healing).

But with that said it's more likely 4. Tank, DPS, Support, Healing. It will really come down to if they make bard a primary healer, or strictly support.

A trinity of four.....

Correct, but not all support are healers. You probably won't do as well without a cleric.

So holy trinity is Tank, DPS, Cleric. Then you add support. 8 man groups add 5 more besides the trinity. Most high end content probably won't need two tanks. Maybe a fighter off-tank. A good chance for 2 clerics and likely a Bard support. The rest dps/support classes.

Bard will likely be so good at support it will be mandatory. Quadrality

But the showcases and the most complete archetypes are clearly trinity, and the balance will expand from there.

We still don't know the extent of what secondary archetypes will be able to change the primary. A fighter/tank may be able to tank group content if he is built to tank. A bard/cleric could be able to heal a group of their skill choices focus on that.

Could you get away with it in some content? Sure, but high-end content, not likely.

Ok, that's why I did make an exception in my previous statement.

Right but tanking and healing in particular aren't like this because the 'Tank' is 'whoever has the best damage mitigation when the group's tactics are applied' and 'healing' depends mostly on that too.

Intrepid says we will get different types of Tanks. In order for this to work, as I see it, there will definitely end up being situations where Mage/Tank is better than Tank/Mage. It just won't matter because 90% of the people who want to tank that content are just going to go to their Node/house, respec to Tank/Mage from Tank/Whatever they were and tank it.

Whereas the Mage/Tank would have to do a lot of stuff. I bet they'd still be better at that high end content even, but I don't expect the Tank to be crying about it.

EDIT: Specifically the reason DPS/Tank normally works pretty well is that 'killing things faster' is a form of damage mitigation and the usual reason old Trinity games don't let you 'just kill things as fast as possible' is that the squishy one is where the damage comes from and they will be turned into a stain on the floor. We might not see that in Ashes in the same way.

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