Excessive advantage of a large purposeful guild

A larger guild with 300 people will have 20-50 miners and 1-2 processors and will receive the metal for free. I, who am in a smaller guild and buy the metal to process it, will I compete?I'm 20-50 times behind.The small guild gets a bonus.It's not hard to get around.I would put a weekly or monthly limit on how much you could improve in a profession.Avoid some problems with this.who would cut the tree for 8 hours a day just to grow.Exploiting markets when someone will produce 100 axes just to quickly improve their skills.and 1 smaller character should also have a chance to bring in the backlog.

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Mag7spy

drclawx wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

drclawx wrote: »

How many people will work for "free" though?

Eventually it causes tension if are just feeding the top 20 guild members and getting little in return.

I do have concerns though if you are just average joe crafter that just wants to have fun and not be some sweat lord super efficient player.

Guild doesn't work for free, that is the thing some of these solo /small group players think. It just comes down to not wanting to give things to anyone for them. While you give things to guild guild since you are all working towards a common goal and the benefits are generally shared.

Also you can look for a guild that doesn't require you to give anything...

Mostly responding to the OP that is worried about 50 people feeding someone for free.
Other games don't really have consequences for being greedy. Big zergs may chase people away form the areas they operate and loose node population weakening their overall strength.

Depraved wrote: »

drclawx wrote: »

How many people will work for "free" though?

Eventually it causes tension if are just feeding the top 20 guild members and getting little in return.

I do have concerns though if you are just average joe crafter that just wants to have fun and not be some sweat lord super efficient player.

well, you are getting mats for free and leveling your profession, which means you can make things others cant and make money...and the person giving you the mats is getting a finished product. its a win win.

Small groups can do this too not just large ones. I guess if you just start playing without a group it would suck. It's pretty hard to find reliable people to play with.

Ya i was agreeing with your point and just adding my own thought to it as well lol. Think it comes down to big guild is bad so those people avoid them and don't really understand how things are do to a warped perspective.

Dolyem

Spinspirit wrote: »

xmix wrote: »

will I compete?

No i guess, if you want to compete you could join a large guild. A large guild with many members and big investment should be able to gain advantages over smaller guilds/solo players otherwise it would be completely pointless.

God, I'd love to make mega guilds irrelevant

sternzy

I don't really think there is any good answer to this. Mega guilds will do exactly what they did in New World. They will have one massive main guild and lots and lots of little alt guilds to take full advantage of any advantages given to smaller guilds. They will be running the bots to exploit resources.
This is all made very very easy or trivial now that it is known there will be no effort to prevent multi boxing or running multiple accounts from a single IP.
This destroys the game for people who are not part of a mega guild and/or have no interest in being part of a mega guild but it is far more monetarily interesting from a developer/publisher point of view.
It's important to understand that having 5 accounts per person means nothing to someone who's hobby is mmos. like 75/month to have 5 characters per person. multiply that by a mega guild. I spend 75$ every time I go to the bar.

Ludullu

sternzy wrote: »

I spend 75$ every time I go to the bar.

Weird flex, but ok.

If those people can run 5 accounts w/o automation - good for them. Intrepid think they can stop botting and prevent automated multiboxing. If they can't - the game is doomed either way. But if they can, the mega guilds will just have singular players instead of full groups per player running around.

Azherae

NiKr wrote: »

sternzy wrote: »

I spend 75$ every time I go to the bar.

Weird flex, but ok.

If those people can run 5 accounts w/o automation - good for them. Intrepid think they can stop botting and prevent automated multiboxing. If they can't - the game is doomed either way. But if they can, the mega guilds will just have singular players instead of full groups per player running around.

Automation not required. The goal in that case would be to minimize travel time in a world without fast travel.

Guild A is full of gatherers with decent gear, Guild B is combatants. They each take the respective optimal guild buffs and ally as needed.

Common, easy, 'oldschool'.

Ludullu

Azherae wrote: »

Common, easy, 'oldschool'.

I mean, yeah, this would be the classic approach of a huge guild. But sternzy is saying that this would be done with 5 active windows per player, so instead of 2 guilds of real people it'd be 10 guilds of "bots".

drclawx

NiKr wrote: »

sternzy wrote: »

I spend 75$ every time I go to the bar.

Weird flex, but ok.

If those people can run 5 accounts w/o automation - good for them. Intrepid think they can stop botting and prevent automated multiboxing. If they can't - the game is doomed either way. But if they can, the mega guilds will just have singular players instead of full groups per player running around.

Hopefully, they can mitigate cheating. Most of these mega guilds/large groups get so much power with the exploit early and often mentality and nothing ever happens to them.

I am concerned that people are already sweaty over the game though planning like 10 years in advance with alpha access. The game may be solved before it hits the masses.

To operate a mega guild in this game its gonna be pretty hard to organize everything imo.

Noaani

@xmix

To be perfectly blunt, larger guilds working together will have an advantage over what you are wanting to do.

Truth be told, they should have that advantage.

What you need to do is work out a niche you can fill. You wont win in direct competition, so dont compete.

Raven016

The game should give incentives to create large guilds and it should also create more ways to allocate the points which could all be tempting for a large guild.
Large guilds should get political advantages (ability to influence nodes and get bonuses inside cities)
Small guilds should get tactical advantages in the open world (buffs while holding or attacking small defense points, freeholds or caravans)

The game should ensure that it is hard to reconfigure a large guild into several small guilds and back to large again. Even moving players between small and large guilds should take long time to get them levels and benefits.

Raven016

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Social_organizations

I see on this link that
Social organizations cater for solo players who don't wish to engage in guild-oriented organizations.[7][8]

And that there is a "Trader's company". Could it be that the best traders will be solo players?

xmix

Raven016 wrote: »

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Social_organizations

I see on this link that
Social organizations cater for solo players who don't wish to engage in guild-oriented organizations.[7][8]

And that there is a "Trader's company". Could it be that the best traders will be solo players?

So I think now it will be like this. Alone or as a member of 1 small guild, you can only get involved in things that depend on one person and they can't support you in it, collecting, gardening, fish breeding, maybe scientific research.processing raw materials or forging weapons, armor, jewelry will all be for the big ones. You can start small, but it won't be worth it, it will cost you a lot of time and by the time you reach the big ones, the equipment you could sell will be worth much less or the market will be saturated.

Raven016

xmix wrote: »

Raven016 wrote: »

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Social_organizations

I see on this link that
Social organizations cater for solo players who don't wish to engage in guild-oriented organizations.[7][8]

And that there is a "Trader's company". Could it be that the best traders will be solo players?

So I think now it will be like this. Alone or as a member of 1 small guild, you can only get involved in things that depend on one person and they can't support you in it, collecting, gardening, fish breeding, maybe scientific research.processing raw materials or forging weapons, armor, jewelry will all be for the big ones. You can start small, but it won't be worth it, it will cost you a lot of time and by the time you reach the big ones, the equipment you could sell will be worth much less or the market will be saturated.

Why you think a "member of 1 small guild" could do this but a member of a large guild not?
"Trader's company" seems related to buying and selling things. One can become rich just by buying cheap and selling expensive. Activities to advance it that organization should be related to moving goods and trading instead of gathering.

xmix

Well, nobody here agrees with me. But they will be revealed in the alpha. I just drew attention to this. But maybe I'm just overthinking it.

Raven016

xmix wrote: »

Well, nobody here agrees with me. But they will be revealed in the alpha. I just drew attention to this. But maybe I'm just overthinking it.

I like that you are concerned about this topic.
The forum will be a fun place when alpha 2 starts.

Noaani

xmix wrote: »

Well, nobody here agrees with me. But they will be revealed in the alpha. I just drew attention to this. But maybe I'm just overthinking it.

Actually, I think everyone here agrees with the situation you see happening in game (even if your numbers aren't really accurate).

The thing is, to most people here, this is just a part of the game.

Individuals are not going to succeed in Ashes - simple as that.

Also, if anything, Alpha would give you a false sense of security, rather than prove you right. Guilds and such don't get in to full efficiency mode when testing.

xmix

Noaani wrote: »

xmix wrote: »

Well, nobody here agrees with me. But they will be revealed in the alpha. I just drew attention to this. But maybe I'm just overthinking it.

Actually, I think everyone here agrees with the situation you see happening in game (even if your numbers aren't really accurate).

The thing is, to most people here, this is just a part of the game.

Individuals are not going to succeed in Ashes - simple as that.

Also, if anything, Alpha would give you a false sense of security, rather than prove you right. Guilds and such don't get in to full efficiency mode when testing.

This is 1 important part of the game. This will be your main source of income. Everything will have to be manufactured.

Dolyem

With the design so far for Ashes, encouraging alliances and what not, I feel like the guild perks that buff the guild members should be pretty substantial conpared to the perks for more members. Promoting more small guilds with stronger individuals as opposed to massive singular guilds with weaker individuals.
Only problem is when mega guilds plan to form several small guilds, though the inconvenience of limiting alliances may thwart that a bit.

xmix

Dolyem wrote: »

With the design so far for Ashes, encouraging alliances and what not, I feel like the guild perks that buff the guild members should be pretty substantial conpared to the perks for more members. Promoting more small guilds with stronger individuals as opposed to massive singular guilds with weaker individuals.
Only problem is when mega guilds plan to form several small guilds, though the inconvenience of limiting alliances may thwart that a bit.

I would be more interested in what kind of skill trees the guilds will have, depending on their size, and what you can get out of them.guild's maintenance cost or membership fee.

Tyranthraxus

It would be quite upsetting if a single player or a small guild was as-capable as a much larger guild that works well together to have the same exact output, by purposeful limitations in the game-design.

Dygz

Same exact output of what???

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