Dygz wrote: » Fiddlez wrote: » I just haven't heard anyone talking about it much. I wasn't specifically referring to A1 players. Because there hasn't been any new info about Sieges since A1 closed 2 years ago.
Fiddlez wrote: » I just haven't heard anyone talking about it much. I wasn't specifically referring to A1 players.
Fantmx wrote: » Crowfall was simply not a fun game. If it was, it would not have closed down.
Fantmx wrote: » Barab wrote: » Dygz wrote: » Barab wrote: » In my opinion, Crowfall and AoC share the player driven territory control as well as repercussions of player/guild/alliance/nations actions. Same could be said for Archeage, LL2, Shadowbane, MO2 and others. Words, actions, relationships have more meaning and worth in worlds such as these games. I disagree, but this pov is exactly what Steven has been stressing for the past year. Dygz I am sure similar to yourself we both have been playing MMOS since the 1990’s. Our differences I assume are my guild has not only played the theme park mmos but also the more sandbox territorial conquest pvp mmos as well as the more “faction” based pvp mmos. Basically, every mmo since The Realm we have alpha and/or beta tested or played as an official chapter. That being said, I would love to understand why you believe even in a pvx designed mmo such as AoC that individual, guilds, alliances, national node relationships would not have far more worth and meaning than found in a theme park mmo such as WoW or FFIV ? Because from our collective experience we have not found such to be true. Reputations will matter more so, relationships will matter more so, actions from all functions such as trading to non-aggression pacts between guilds to nation nodes down to individual interactions will have far more value and worth in a player driven content mmo such as @StevenSharif has designed and presented AoC to be. Correct me if I am wrong, as I mean no disrespect, but I swore I remember you saying on a podcast you wouldn’t play AoC at release due to the threat of pvp anywhere ? Regardless I really hope you give AoC a good run through a2 testing. Different visions of what is fun in a mmo is healthy for testing feedback. From our experiences come our opinions
Barab wrote: » Dygz wrote: » Barab wrote: » In my opinion, Crowfall and AoC share the player driven territory control as well as repercussions of player/guild/alliance/nations actions. Same could be said for Archeage, LL2, Shadowbane, MO2 and others. Words, actions, relationships have more meaning and worth in worlds such as these games. I disagree, but this pov is exactly what Steven has been stressing for the past year. Dygz I am sure similar to yourself we both have been playing MMOS since the 1990’s. Our differences I assume are my guild has not only played the theme park mmos but also the more sandbox territorial conquest pvp mmos as well as the more “faction” based pvp mmos. Basically, every mmo since The Realm we have alpha and/or beta tested or played as an official chapter. That being said, I would love to understand why you believe even in a pvx designed mmo such as AoC that individual, guilds, alliances, national node relationships would not have far more worth and meaning than found in a theme park mmo such as WoW or FFIV ? Because from our collective experience we have not found such to be true. Reputations will matter more so, relationships will matter more so, actions from all functions such as trading to non-aggression pacts between guilds to nation nodes down to individual interactions will have far more value and worth in a player driven content mmo such as @StevenSharif has designed and presented AoC to be. Correct me if I am wrong, as I mean no disrespect, but I swore I remember you saying on a podcast you wouldn’t play AoC at release due to the threat of pvp anywhere ? Regardless I really hope you give AoC a good run through a2 testing. Different visions of what is fun in a mmo is healthy for testing feedback.
Dygz wrote: » Barab wrote: » In my opinion, Crowfall and AoC share the player driven territory control as well as repercussions of player/guild/alliance/nations actions. Same could be said for Archeage, LL2, Shadowbane, MO2 and others. Words, actions, relationships have more meaning and worth in worlds such as these games. I disagree, but this pov is exactly what Steven has been stressing for the past year.
Barab wrote: » In my opinion, Crowfall and AoC share the player driven territory control as well as repercussions of player/guild/alliance/nations actions. Same could be said for Archeage, LL2, Shadowbane, MO2 and others. Words, actions, relationships have more meaning and worth in worlds such as these games.
Barab wrote: » I would love to understand why you believe even in a pvx designed mmo such as AoC that individual, guilds, alliances, national node relationships would not have far more worth and meaning than found in a theme park mmo such as WoW or FFIV ? Because from our collective experience we have not found such to be true.
Barab wrote: » Correct me if I am wrong, as I mean no disrespect, but I swore I remember you saying on a podcast you wouldn’t play AoC at release due to the threat of pvp anywhere ?
Barab wrote: » Regardless I really hope you give AoC a good run through a2 testing. Different visions of what is fun in a mmo is healthy for testing feedback.
Dygz wrote: » Barab wrote: » I would love to understand why you believe even in a pvx designed mmo such as AoC that individual, guilds, alliances, national node relationships would not have far more worth and meaning than found in a theme park mmo such as WoW or FFIV ? Because from our collective experience we have not found such to be true. First - depends on what you mean by PvX. Second - keep in mind that Ashes is a Themebox - not a Sandpark. Third - I expect individual, guilds, alliances, national node relationships will have considerable worth and meaning in Ashes. Meaningful Conflict: Sieges, Caravans, Node Wars and Guild Wars should cause player character relationships to be tighter than they are in EQ/EQ2/WoW for a variety of reasons. Cities and Towns that once existed may no longer exist when we return from a week or month absence and we will be asking in-game what happened. We may also be asking other player characters to help us locate resources and services and gear that is no longer available. Even without Sieges, player characters who are citizens of the same Node should bond more closely than in WoW or EQ/EQ2 as they work together to progress their Villages to Metros and defend their Nodes from Environmental threats, Events like the Goblin Raiders and Monster Coin Attacks. Sieges will also bond player characters together. Barab wrote: » Correct me if I am wrong, as I mean no disrespect, but I swore I remember you saying on a podcast you wouldn’t play AoC at release due to the threat of pvp anywhere ? LMAO No. That's not what I said, but now I understand your confusion. What I said is that the addition of The Open Seas - a permanent, auto-flag (Corruption-free) FFA PvP zone is a deal breaker for me. My Bartle Score is: Explorer 87; Socializer 73; Achiever 47; Killer 0. Which basically reflects that I am an Explorer first and foremost, so I need to be able to explore the entire map without being auto-flagged for PvP... indicating that I have auto-consented to PvP when it will be most likely that I'm not in the mood for PvP - since I am rarely in the mood for PvP. Most of the time I'm in The Open Seas it will be just because I want to explore - not because I'm in the mood for PvP. Back in May 2018, when I asked Steven about his goals for Ashes PvP, he said that Ashes would not have permanent zones that auto-flag (Corruption-free) FFA PvP. There would just be PvP with the Risk of Corruption in effect everywhere on the map. I was reasonably OK with that compromise. The introduction of The Open Seas is a dealbreaker for me. I now have very little interest in playing the game after launch. But... some people still want me to play with them in the game - so... I did finally find a way to play without being concerned about auto-consent PvP. I won't be pursuing any progression paths and I will only be wearing starting gear and will carry no resources. I will completely ignore PvP. Since I'm not pursuing progression, death penalties will be irrelevant. Instead, I will just be pursuing the Ultimate Carebear Challenge: Explore as much of the map as possible with 0 Kills and be as low Adventurer Level as possible. Barab wrote: » Regardless I really hope you give AoC a good run through a2 testing. Different visions of what is fun in a mmo is healthy for testing feedback. Yep. There are still many features and mechanics I'm interested in testing in Alpha 2 and the Betas.
Barab wrote: » Fair enough, though from testing alpha 1 and from even the core design of the world and player driven content I wouldn't agree AoC is a themepark mmo but more of a hybrid with elements from both sandbox and themepark. Even the most sandbox mmos have had a splash of themepark in them.
Barab wrote: » If you do play more than intended at release, and have interest in the Dünir and restoring the Dünzenkell nation to it's rightful glory, we could always use an adventurous minded player as the collection of Dünir guilds and Dünir players we have been slowly organizing with over the years with the goal of reaching a Dünir metropolitan will need all mmo player styles to succeed. Good chance we play on whatever RP server the RP community choses.
Barab wrote: » To end, Crowfall had a lot of promise, had a good smart dev team with past success but due to more than one reason....choice of engine, funding, listening to the wrong testing groups..it just didnt work out. Personally I had hundreds of hours, close to a thousand, in testing and playing at release. Me and my guildmates have good memories of the battles and adventures we had in that realm.
Barab wrote: » Most of us going into it wanted Crowfall to be Shadowbane II. Artcraft took a chance on out of the box mmo it just didnt happen. It wasnt the first nor last mmo to close it's doors. Here is to hoping all of us AoC testers, from all perspectives and styles of play, can help AoC succeed at release.
Fiddlez wrote: » Most look at it I think and say " that looks cool AF". My entire point wasn't to get in to some silly discussion about it but just that people should get more hyped for it and hopefully they get it right.
Noaani wrote: » Fantmx wrote: » Crowfall was simply not a fun game. If it was, it would not have closed down. Yeah, good games last longer than 16 months.
Dygz wrote: » Fiddlez wrote: » Most look at it I think and say " that looks cool AF". My entire point wasn't to get in to some silly discussion about it but just that people should get more hyped for it and hopefully they get it right. My entire point is that people are already very hyped about Sieges. I don't know how people can be more hyped than "that looks cool AF". But... OK. Everyone here hopes the devs get Sieges right.
Fiddlez wrote: » I have no interest in helping anyone restore glory in Ashes. The current game design's obsession with Risk v Reward acts as anti-hype for me. I won't be actively helping anyone with progression. Decent chance our characters might have topics to discuss. I can't imagine Dünir rejecting an opportunity to regale experiences over some ale. Cheers!! No idea why you are even playing this game. You clearly don't see the vision of what's being made, so why push for something's to be what everyone else wants from this game?
Fiddlez wrote: » Well not according to any recent discussions. I don't see how you can try and argue with me on this when we havent heard much in years. Maybe I am just saying they need to be more hyped. You just seem to be a contrarian by nature. I think we both know that you can be curious about something that looks cool AF but still most likely not have any interest in taking part of it.
Fiddlez wrote: » No idea why you are even playing this game. You clearly don't see the vision of what's being made, so why push for something's to be what everyone else wants from this game?
Dygz wrote: » Fiddlez wrote: » No idea why you are even playing this game. You clearly don't see the vision of what's being made, so why push for something's to be what everyone else wants from this game? I see the vision. I think the current direction is great for the target audience. What things have I pushed for??
Fiddlez wrote: » Dygz wrote: » Fiddlez wrote: » No idea why you are even playing this game. You clearly don't see the vision of what's being made, so why push for something's to be what everyone else wants from this game? I see the vision. I think the current direction is great for the target audience. What things have I pushed for?? I will say it simply. You cannot have AOC with out open world PVP. Taking it out in any fashion would completely undermine every part of the game, including crafting.
Fiddlez wrote: » I will say it simply. You cannot have AOC with out open world PVP. Taking it out in any fashion would completely undermine every part of the game, including crafting.
Dygz wrote: » Fiddlez wrote: » I will say it simply. You cannot have AOC with out open world PVP. Taking it out in any fashion would completely undermine every part of the game, including crafting. I haven't asked for PvP to be taken out of the game - in any fashion. I dunno why you mention that, but... As far as I can tell, we agree.
