AOC is NOT a PVP game.

AoC is a PVX game and that means something.

This started as a reply during another Forum post but It became long winded so I just made a post. As always any thoughts of your own are appreciated.

I think there is a general confusion on what AoC is trying to be and why some people incorrectly think that this game is being designed around Nostalgia or PVP. Its not.

I look at this game as closer to a Story to be read, or something you could write about and even if you didn't play there would be stories you would want to hear. You can have a version of meaningful conflict with out PVP for sure but the more you risk the bigger the conflict and the more interesting the story. Just look at Eve Online, I've barely touched that game but I've heard the stories and there's a chance you have to.

The idea isn't that you need to focus on your inventory when out collecting but that its a dangerous world full of conflict(terror). You need to address that, no one will likely disturb you but there is a chance and that chance pushes players in to Social content essentially. Players may provide protection services or people will group to collect to ensure safety or be aware of the other players and maybe be a little more friendly etc. Its simply not as simple as "other players want to kill me while I collect flowers and that's silly". Its that with out that you are sacrificing the core of the game and reducing the need for players to rely on each other.

Even the Nodes are designed to create conflict. So the goal is to create a world that feels in conflict. (Ideally they do add corruption effects to your character when you increase in corruption.) Where you are going out in to the world and your safety isn't guaranteed. When you see a player you ask yourself, who is that? what are they doing? what do they want? If they are corrupted, what do I do ? Did they kill someone that pissed them off or are they just out to cause trouble? You have just entered into conflict simply by being there.

People should be very clear that this is NOT a progression train that you hop on and off with no need to interact with other players and even when you do they might as well be AI for the value that it brings to the experience. I think In-fact you are most likely to prefer bots because the players tend to gravitate towards toxic behavior with a " if you slow me down you are hurting me and now I am pissed off" style of development. When i say Modern MMO's/RPGs feel empty it barely seems to even scratch the surface.

I played Wayfinder and that games feels so dam empty just like so many before it, for what it is its probably decent but I am not interested. There are a lot people that are upset that T&L has auto-play but because there is such a focus on just instant gratification that players and companies seem to just assume that anything outside that wont work, they design games that are one breath away from being AutoPlay. So clearly Autoplay was the next logical step.

Which is probably why it takes someone like Steven Shariff to change things. Remember WoW had 0 experience going in to making their MMO with only a vision and not enough money, before WoW they made RTS's and Action RPGs in a world where gaming itself was certainly not mainstream. If anyone remembers how silly their launch was and how little content the game had it would probably blow them away. It took them a full year or more to even get their servers in line. Either way they developed a game that everyone wanted to play for that time. Everyone projected a massive failure. They came out on top because their vision of WOW at that time hit the right chord.

Despite being the most popular MMORPG to date Blizzard are also oddly enough the last developer anyone should talk to before making their own MMORPG. They made what they made and that worked for them and that's it, even recently though it seems they don't understand why anyone keeps playing their own game.

Main Point is this, stop focusing on if this game is PVP or PVE, they operate together to achieve a larger goal from a Man who made a world as a Dungeon Master and wants to see that world live. Telling him to reduce the conflict points would be like telling GRR Martin to stop killing characters.

Find more posts tagged with

Staff

Comments

Depraved

agreeedddddddd

Fantmx

AOC is game with PVP. I think everyone agrees on that.

Main Point is this, stop focusing on if this game is PVP or PVE

It's hard to not focus on one or the other when all of the systems are tied to one or the other or both. I would argue that focusing on making sure there is a balance between PvP and PvE in a way that this is a true PvX is one of the most important things we can do to help ensure it's success.

Raven016

is PvX only if I can do Monday, Wednesday and Friday only PvE, without any risk of PvP.
Fighting NPCs having to look constantly around if anyone comes to take my resources makes it a PvP game.

Depraved

&#129318

Fiddlez

Fantmx wrote: »

AOC is game with PVP. I think everyone agrees on that.

Main Point is this, stop focusing on if this game is PVP or PVE

It's hard to not focus on one or the other when all of the systems are tied to one or the other or both. I would argue that focusing on making sure there is a balance between PvP and PvE in a way that this is a true PvX is one of the most important things we can do to help ensure it's success.

Well I would disagree, some people agree and see what is being made but I watch a decent amount of content there is a lot that seem to really get hung up on why there are big Elements of Risk vs reward, PVP and lack of participation trophies.

You say that its hard to not focus on but but it seems like every Stream/Podcast seems to bring up PVP and the focus isn't on balancing but rather how PVP elements will hurt the game rather then help it. Some in the community, some outside. I would say you of all people would understand my point more because of where a lot of TheoryForge conversations go. How many times does Steven mention or Margerat that this is a PVX game as a result of what people are saying.

In general I just think we as a community should change the conversations a bit towards what being a PVX means. We want stories and Social experiences, to be a part of a world where conflict exists and content is not purely based on a Railroad.

Fiddlez

Raven016 wrote: »

is PvX only if I can do Monday, Wednesday and Friday only PvE, without any risk of PvP.
Fighting NPCs having to look constantly around if anyone comes to take my resources makes it a PvP game.

I'm not entirely sure you even read what I wrote.

Ayeveegaming1

Well you are going to have many types of players, PvE, PvX, PvP. Each is pretty set in his or her way despite the branding of the game of pvx. Telling people to change their core and to stop asking for things they like is pretty much a moot point. You see, its forum pvp. If you see a pve thread getting lots of attention then the pvp crowd comes in and dismantles it and vise versa. We are all gonna want what we want until the game is out, and probably even after that lol.

Depraved

this is probably the best type of gameplay for some of you

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Social_organizations

Ayeveegaming1

Depraved wrote: »

this is probably the best type of gameplay for some of you

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Social_organizations

Hrmmm, lets lay siege to those people!! haha, no worries, its not pvp.

Raven016

Fiddlez wrote: »

Raven016 wrote: »

is PvX only if I can do Monday, Wednesday and Friday only PvE, without any risk of PvP.
Fighting NPCs having to look constantly around if anyone comes to take my resources makes it a PvP game.

I'm not entirely sure you even read what I wrote.

The title of your thread is "AOC is NOT a PVP game"
I checked your post and it does not contain the conditions to make it a PvX game.
I skipped the part where you said "I played Wayfinder ..."
Which part specifically explains that is PvX and not PvP?
I told you what I expect: to be able to have PvP sessions and PvE sessions.
Will the player be able to have PvE without any risk of being interrupted by PvP somewhere?

Ludullu

Raven016 wrote: »

Will the player be able to have PvE without any risk of being interrupted by PvP somewhere?

Yes, 20% of dungeons are instanced. You also can't be attacked on your freehold, so all the pve you do there will be protected.

Ayeveegaming1

NiKr wrote: »

Raven016 wrote: »

Will the player be able to have PvE without any risk of being interrupted by PvP somewhere?

Yes, 20% of dungeons are instanced. You also can't be attacked on your freehold, so all the pve you do there will be protected.

you can get attacked in your freehold, just not your home.

Ludullu

Ravicus wrote: »

you can get attacked in your freehold, just not your home.

Right, right, right. My bad. I'm still in the past that I hope to be future again.

Fiddlez

Raven016 wrote: »

is PvX only if I can do Monday, Wednesday and Friday only PvE, without any risk of PvP.
Fighting NPCs having to look constantly around if anyone comes to take my resources makes it a PvP game.

The conditions were implied. The Core element is telling a story and creating a world with or in conflict. So you seem to have missed the point. The PVE and PVP elements support the vision and aren't the main focus, they are a tool provided. No the player will not have any risk, there is a chance of conflict. Which is why I asked if you even read it.

Will you engage in PVP if you dont want to? No, you can just die and let them get corruption.

Dolyem

Raven016 wrote: »

Fiddlez wrote: »

Raven016 wrote: »

is PvX only if I can do Monday, Wednesday and Friday only PvE, without any risk of PvP.
Fighting NPCs having to look constantly around if anyone comes to take my resources makes it a PvP game.

I'm not entirely sure you even read what I wrote.

The title of your thread is "AOC is NOT a PVP game"
I checked your post and it does not contain the conditions to make it a PvX game.
I skipped the part where you said "I played Wayfinder ..."
Which part specifically explains that is PvX and not PvP?
I told you what I expect: to be able to have PvP sessions and PvE sessions.
Will the player be able to have PvE without any risk of being interrupted by PvP somewhere?

PvX requires you to participate in both PvP and PvE to progress. Not one or the other, both. So naturally, when fighting mobs in the wild, you will be required to look over your shoulder and be weary of other players.
There was a discussion not long ago talking about how practically all "PvP" MMORPGs are really just PvX, where PvP would have either no PvE or not require PvE at all.

Raven016

NiKr wrote: »

Raven016 wrote: »

Will the player be able to have PvE without any risk of being interrupted by PvP somewhere?

Yes, 20% of dungeons are instanced. You also can't be attacked on your freehold, so all the pve you do there will be protected.

ok. If those are instances which do not allow PvP then is a PvX game.
Can a corrupt player clean his corruption fighting NPCs there? Would make no sense to be possible (as game mechanic, not lore) but I am curious.

Ayeveegaming1

Implied is in the eye of the beholder :P

Ludullu

Raven016 wrote: »

ok. If those are instances which do not allow PvP then is a PvX game.
Can a corrupt player clean his corruption fighting NPCs there? Would make no sense to be possible (as game mechanic, not lore) but I am curious.

As Dolyem pointed out, your definition of pvx is not the same as Steven's. But no, I doubt red players will be able to enter instances, because those would probably require npc interactions and reds can't do that.

Depraved

Ravicus wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

this is probably the best type of gameplay for some of you

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Social_organizations

Hrmmm, lets lay siege to those people!! haha, no worries, its not pvp.

Dygz

Fiddlez wrote: »

Well I would disagree, some people agree and see what is being made but I watch a decent amount of content there is a lot that seem to really get hung up on why there are big Elements of Risk vs reward, PVP and lack of participation trophies.

I’m not aware of people getting hung up on “why” Ashes has an obsession with Risk v Reward or participation trophies or having PvP fused to every aspect of the game as much as possible.

Fiddlez wrote: »

In general I just think we as a community should change the conversations a bit towards what being a PVX means. We want stories and Social experiences, to be a part of a world where conflict exists and content is not purely based on a Railroad.

You could try that but…
I consider it a semantics issue with PvX trying to obfuscate that Ashes is really a PvP-centric MMORPG.
For me, once I understand that an MMORPG is PvP-centric, it can be called PvX. Doesn’t make a difference to me.
You could try to explain why you would not call Ashes a PvP-centric MMORPG if you wanted to but… I don’t think would make discussions much better.

List 2 “PvP MMORPGs” and 2 “PvX MMORPGs”?

Child Item