Ground Targeted AOEs are not skillshots.

You don't shoot Divine Flare, you place it on the ground.

Skills shots, require that you shoot them.

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Dygz wrote: »

Is Pepsi a coke?

Yet another amazing semantic discussion. Half the states use "coke" as just an umbrella term for co2 water with flavoring (at least afaik).

It came to that point because Coke, as a product, has become so widespread that it became a general term (at least for some people). The same happened to "skillshot", once other games outside of fps started requiring mechanical skill to do well.

Solvryn

NiKr wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

Is Pepsi a coke?

Yet another amazing semantic discussion. Half the states use "coke" as just an umbrella term for co2 water with flavoring (at least afaik).

It came to that point because Coke, as a product, has become so widespread that it became a general term (at least for some people). The same happened to "skillshot", once other games outside of fps started requiring mechanical skill to do well.

Pepsi and Coke are both Colas but they are not the same product.

Dygz

Pepsi and Coke are not the same product.
But there are some places in the US where if you request a Coke, you will be asked what kind of coke you want: Pepsi, Coca-Cola, Sprite, Fanta...

Ludullu

Dygz wrote: »

Pepsi and Coke are not the same product.
But there are some places in the US where if you request a Coke, you will be asked what kind of coke you want: Pepsi, Coca-Cola, Sprite, Fanta...

Case in point for why this whole thread is quite silly

Though I'm sure that the OP is about to call all those places wrong

Solvryn

NiKr wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

Pepsi and Coke are not the same product.
But there are some places in the US where if you request a Coke, you will be asked what kind of coke you want: Pepsi, Coca-Cola, Sprite, Fanta...

Case in point for why this whole thread is quite silly

Though I'm sure that the OP is about to call all those places wrong

I work at a marijuana dispensary. Indica, Hybrid, and Sativas are different; but they’re all marijuana.

Soda is a carbonated beverage and Coke is the cola flavor of the Coca-Cola company.

So yes, those details bloody matter.

Ludullu

Solvryn wrote: »

I work at a marijuana dispensary. Indica, Hybrid, and Sativas are different; but they’re all marijuana.

Soda is a carbonated beverage and Coke is the cola flavor of the Coca-Cola company.

So yes, those details bloody matter.

You keep denying existence of quite a big number of people and their experiences.

Solvryn

NiKr wrote: »

Solvryn wrote: »

I work at a marijuana dispensary. Indica, Hybrid, and Sativas are different; but they’re all marijuana.

Soda is a carbonated beverage and Coke is the cola flavor of the Coca-Cola company.

So yes, those details bloody matter.

You keep denying existence of quite a big number of people and their experiences.

I’ve always worked in fields were communicative specificity is imperative. Tuning a vehicle wrong can lead to a catastrophic failure.

Not giving a precise command can lead to a catastrophic mission failure.

Not using the correct welding rod can lead to catastrophic failure.

Not using the right measurements when machining a part can lead to catastrophic failure.

People maybe only smoke indicas, not hybrid or sativas.

Being precise doesn’t deny anyone their lives experiences.

The way you are facing, oriented.
Pointing a weapon such as a firearm, aiming.

There are nuances that matter Nik.

Let me sell you a prime rib when you ordered a steak, after all they’re just bovine meat.

Ludullu

Solvryn wrote: »

There are nuances that matter Nik.

Yes, and as that screenshot shows, those nuances can vary across different locations/genres/etc.

If a shooter has a a throwing knife weapon, with flight times - would you not consider it a "skillshot" to hit a headshot with that knife? Or do you call that skillthrow? Cause I definitely have never heard of that word.

Or is it somehow still a skillshot, even though you throw the knife and not shoot it?

Chonkers1

They actually are

Ludullu

Chonkers wrote: »

They actually are

Actually are skillshots? Cause I feel like Solvryn will not agree with you. You don't shoot knives after all. And it's all about the "shot".

CROW3

This thread, much like the ‘Ashes isn’t PvP’ thread seems focused on narrowing the definition of terms ‘skill shot’ or ‘conflict’ in an effort to win an ultimately meaningless debate.

I tend to be outcomes focused. If the last action I took in a duel / battle was a placed aoe that killed another player, you can go through whatever tortured linguistic contortionism you want to feel better, you’re still dead.

So… 🤷‍♂️

Depraved

Solvryn wrote: »

NiKr wrote: »

Solvryn wrote: »

I work at a marijuana dispensary. Indica, Hybrid, and Sativas are different; but they’re all marijuana.

Soda is a carbonated beverage and Coke is the cola flavor of the Coca-Cola company.

So yes, those details bloody matter.

You keep denying existence of quite a big number of people and their experiences.

I’ve always worked in fields were communicative specificity is imperative. Tuning a vehicle wrong can lead to a catastrophic failure.

Not giving a precise command can lead to a catastrophic mission failure.

Not using the correct welding rod can lead to catastrophic failure.

Not using the right measurements when machining a part can lead to catastrophic failure.

People maybe only smoke indicas, not hybrid or sativas.

Being precise doesn’t deny anyone their lives experiences.

The way you are facing, oriented.
Pointing a weapon such as a firearm, aiming.

There are nuances that matter Nik.

Let me sell you a prime rib when you ordered a steak, after all they’re just bovine meat.

you are an ex military who is also a wielder who also works selling weed in a shop? o-o

Azherae

CROW3 wrote: »

This thread, much like the ‘Ashes isn’t PvP’ thread seems focused on narrowing the definition of terms ‘skill shot’ or ‘conflict’ in an effort to win an ultimately meaningless debate.

I tend to be outcomes focused. If the last action I took in a duel / battle was a placed aoe that killed another player, you can go through whatever tortured linguistic contortionism you want to feel better, you’re still dead.

So… 🤷‍♂️

True, but in this case I believe that OP is trying to tell us that it is very important to them, that the distinction is made, and we do have a fairly valid reason why (for reference I'd prefer to be discussing that reason, namely that 'hard CC being tied to skillshots' might have an implication to some people that is then subverted if 'huge ground placed AoE' counts as one).

But we'd also need to define 'Hard CC' for that because I personally count Sleep as one, but at the moment/subject to change Mage sleep gives the impression of possibly being 'not a skillshot'.

So while I don't intend to presume why this is so important to Solvryn, it may be that you're able to be 'outcomes focused' because you don't care as much about the gameplay experience in which 'hard CC' are 'mostly skillshots'.

CROW3

Azherae wrote: »

So while I don't intend to presume why this is so important to Solvryn, it may be that you're able to be 'outcomes focused' because you don't care as much about the gameplay experience in which 'hard CC' are 'mostly skillshots'.

Or I don’t see the need to parse abilities during the flow of combat based on what my opponent may perceive as a ‘skill shot’ or not. I’m going to use everything in my ability arsenal and the environment to win. If that means using an aoe blowback that pushes my opponent off a cliff all the better.

And I get a chuckle.

Solvryn

NiKr wrote: »

Chonkers wrote: »

They actually are

Actually are skillshots? Cause I feel like Solvryn will not agree with you. You don't shoot knives after all. And it's all about the "shot".

So you do not know what a shot is?

It's a metal ball that you intend on shooting or putting, depending on what activity you're taking part in. In this case becomes a missile, you aim it. There in lies the key, something you aim, has a fixed trajectory, and travels a distance at a rapid rate.

You understand that Divine Flare is not aimed, it's not an object in 3d space, has no fixed trajectory, does not travel across any distance.

Azherae

CROW3 wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

So while I don't intend to presume why this is so important to Solvryn, it may be that you're able to be 'outcomes focused' because you don't care as much about the gameplay experience in which 'hard CC' are 'mostly skillshots'.

Or I don’t see the need to parse abilities during the flow of combat based on what my opponent may perceive as a ‘skill shot’ or not. I’m going to use everything in my ability arsenal and the environment to win. If that means using an aoe blowback that pushes my opponent off a cliff all the better.

And I get a chuckle.

From my perspective, that's more of a 'yes' than an 'or'.

I don't know for certain based on what you said, but I personally can say that when presented with a game in which a really powerful option is also 'easy', I have three things I can do.

Use the Option (what I perceive you would do, but please correct me)
Refuse to use the Option and be disadvantaged
Not play because I don't like games like that.

"Hard CC will be mainly from skillshots" can be construed as removing this concern. If a game says this and then lets people stand behind a tank and use a non-dodgeable long range Tab Target 5 second stun, there are some people who might have an issue with it because they don't consider it fun, regardless of how many 'balanced counters' there are for it.

Depraved

Solvryn wrote: »

NiKr wrote: »

Chonkers wrote: »

They actually are

Actually are skillshots? Cause I feel like Solvryn will not agree with you. You don't shoot knives after all. And it's all about the "shot".

So you do not know what a shot is?

It's a metal ball that you intend on shooting or putting, depending on what activity you're taking part in. In this case becomes a missile, you aim it. There in lies the key, something you aim, has a fixed trajectory, and travels a distance at a rapid rate.

You understand that Divine Flare is not aimed, it's not an object in 3d space, has no fixed trajectory, does not travel across any distance.

what if you are shooting (or launching) a grenade? you aim at the ground for example. so according to you, throwing a grenade doesn't count as aiming because it is "placed" on the ground.

Solvryn

Depraved wrote: »

Solvryn wrote: »

NiKr wrote: »

Chonkers wrote: »

They actually are

Actually are skillshots? Cause I feel like Solvryn will not agree with you. You don't shoot knives after all. And it's all about the "shot".

So you do not know what a shot is?

It's a metal ball that you intend on shooting or putting, depending on what activity you're taking part in. In this case becomes a missile, you aim it. There in lies the key, something you aim, has a fixed trajectory, and travels a distance at a rapid rate.

You understand that Divine Flare is not aimed, it's not an object in 3d space, has no fixed trajectory, does not travel across any distance.

what if you are shooting (or launching) a grenade? you aim at the ground for example. so according to you, throwing a grenade doesn't count as aiming because it is "placed" on the ground.

As a grenadier my M203 (military grenade launcher) never was aimed at the ground at any time; it was aimed in the air. I launched grenades into the air with some accuracy so it landed in the area of the desired target I wanted to destroy.

You aim something you intend on turning into a missile, like a grenade, shot (little metal balls), an arrow, a knife, a spoon, a rubber duck. Lethality is a discussion the proceeds this one.

You can rig a grenade so it acts like a mine though, because mines, grenades, bombs, hellfire missiles (rockets), are still explosive ordnance.

CROW3

@Azherae - so choose option 2 to avoid your opponent potentially perceiving you as unskilled and ruining their fun?

Option 2 seems like a false choice. Based on our conversations, my guess is that if you were forced to not play your class to it’s full potential in the context of that fight, that Option 3 would be the only reasonable choice.

Depraved

Solvryn wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

Solvryn wrote: »

NiKr wrote: »

Chonkers wrote: »

They actually are

Actually are skillshots? Cause I feel like Solvryn will not agree with you. You don't shoot knives after all. And it's all about the "shot".

So you do not know what a shot is?

It's a metal ball that you intend on shooting or putting, depending on what activity you're taking part in. In this case becomes a missile, you aim it. There in lies the key, something you aim, has a fixed trajectory, and travels a distance at a rapid rate.

You understand that Divine Flare is not aimed, it's not an object in 3d space, has no fixed trajectory, does not travel across any distance.

what if you are shooting (or launching) a grenade? you aim at the ground for example. so according to you, throwing a grenade doesn't count as aiming because it is "placed" on the ground.

As a grenadier my M203 (military grenade launcher) never was aimed at the ground at any time; it was aimed in the air. I launched grenades into the air with some accuracy so it landed in the area of the desired target I wanted to destroy.

You aim something you intend on turning into a missile, like a grenade, shot (little metal balls), an arrow, a knife, a spoon, a rubber duck. Lethality is a discussion the proceeds this one.

You can rig a grenade so it acts like a mine though, because mines, grenades, bombs, hellfire missiles (rockets), are still explosive ordnance.

same difference. you didnt aim it at the player (or person/soldier). but following your logic, aiming only applies when you aim at another player / person.

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