deep pve content?

Hi All,

Have they talked about how deep and developed the pve content is going to be.
I could care less about the pvp part of the game, I mostly play games like this for dungeons and gear and grouping with friends to progress in the game. If anyone has any info on this they would like to share it would be great!

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Jindoshi

I remember playing Ultima Online when it came out back in 99 and it was fun and addictive for a time, but when eq1 launched a couple years after Ultima I found my self in a world with deep lore, races had their own starting cities and continents, so many dungeons with great monsters and loot to find on your journey to level 50 back then. It was magical and for about 3 or 4 years it was soo much fun to play with friends. Then wow came along and that was great for about 3 or 4 years. Since then though there haven't really been any new games that really got me and made me want to play every day. I try almost any new mmo that comes out to see if anyone else has found that magic formula and so far nothing has came close to those two old games.
I have hopes for Pantheon if they ever get it finished, and I have hopes that Ashes can be good, but with out meaningful pve content and a lot of it I'm starting to get the feeling AOC is just Ultima Online again with better graphics. That's not a bad thing but its not something that will keep me interested for very long.

Depraved

Dygz wrote: »

I consider that to be mostly a list of PvP-centric MMORPGs. (Minecraft is not an MMORPG)
So... again... PvX MMORPG is a meaningless term. It's just a synonym for a PvP-centric MMORPG.

you just said YOU consider. so if you consider a table to be a chair because you can sit on it, then its not a table, its a chair. reality doesnt matter, only what YOU consider. right?

also, i like i said, some of those games re more pve centric than pvp, but they are still pvx

Depraved

Jindoshi wrote: »

I remember playing Ultima Online when it came out back in 99 and it was fun and addictive for a time, but when eq1 launched a couple years after Ultima I found my self in a world with deep lore, races had their own starting cities and continents, so many dungeons with great monsters and loot to find on your journey to level 50 back then. It was magical and for about 3 or 4 years it was soo much fun to play with friends. Then wow came along and that was great for about 3 or 4 years. Since then though there haven't really been any new games that really got me and made me want to play every day. I try almost any new mmo that comes out to see if anyone else has found that magic formula and so far nothing has came close to those two old games.
I have hopes for Pantheon if they ever get it finished, and I have hopes that Ashes can be good, but with out meaningful pve content and a lot of it I'm starting to get the feeling AOC is just Ultima Online again with better graphics. That's not a bad thing but its not something that will keep me interested for very long.

arent u glad u can still play wow and eq then?

i asked you but you never answered, are you willing to endure months and months and months of pvp just so you can do some top end pve? maybe you mean something else by deep pve. aoc will have quests, stories, etc, etc. or do you mean very difficult instanced dungeons?

since you said you werent interested ni pvp, and you will have to pvp here to do pve, no matter how deep the pve is, you probably wont play anyways. why try to change the game then? leave it as it is for those who already enjoy the concept.

Jindoshi

Depraved wrote: »

Jindoshi wrote: »

I remember playing Ultima Online when it came out back in 99 and it was fun and addictive for a time, but when eq1 launched a couple years after Ultima I found my self in a world with deep lore, races had their own starting cities and continents, so many dungeons with great monsters and loot to find on your journey to level 50 back then. It was magical and for about 3 or 4 years it was soo much fun to play with friends. Then wow came along and that was great for about 3 or 4 years. Since then though there haven't really been any new games that really got me and made me want to play every day. I try almost any new mmo that comes out to see if anyone else has found that magic formula and so far nothing has came close to those two old games.
I have hopes for Pantheon if they ever get it finished, and I have hopes that Ashes can be good, but with out meaningful pve content and a lot of it I'm starting to get the feeling AOC is just Ultima Online again with better graphics. That's not a bad thing but its not something that will keep me interested for very long.

arent u glad u can still play wow and eq then?

i asked you but you never answered, are you willing to endure months and months and months of pvp just so you can do some top end pve? maybe you mean something else by deep pve. aoc will have quests, stories, etc, etc. or do you mean very difficult instanced dungeons?

since you said you werent interested ni pvp, and you will have to pvp here to do pve, no matter how deep the pve is, you probably wont play anyways. why try to change the game then? leave it as it is for those who already enjoy the concept.

First of all saying that people should just go back and play games that are 2 decades old is not really a good way to start a conversation, its just you trying to be a jackass.

They have this discussion forum to talk about the game and offer suggestions on how to make it better so that is what I'm doing. One option they could easily add is a warmode type option that you could turn on and off, so when you want to pvp you can turn it on and when you don't you can turn it off and go do your thing.

The last thing I'll say is why would they have the holy trinity group design for a game that is just focused on pvp? How exactly is a cleric going to kill another player?? So if they are going to build an amazing looking world and have holy trinity group design and all the stuff that would make for an epic pve game and only 20 percent of the game has pve and the other 80 percent of the game is focused on 12 year old just trying to kill each other then it just seems like a big waste.

Depraved

Jindoshi wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

Jindoshi wrote: »

I remember playing Ultima Online when it came out back in 99 and it was fun and addictive for a time, but when eq1 launched a couple years after Ultima I found my self in a world with deep lore, races had their own starting cities and continents, so many dungeons with great monsters and loot to find on your journey to level 50 back then. It was magical and for about 3 or 4 years it was soo much fun to play with friends. Then wow came along and that was great for about 3 or 4 years. Since then though there haven't really been any new games that really got me and made me want to play every day. I try almost any new mmo that comes out to see if anyone else has found that magic formula and so far nothing has came close to those two old games.
I have hopes for Pantheon if they ever get it finished, and I have hopes that Ashes can be good, but with out meaningful pve content and a lot of it I'm starting to get the feeling AOC is just Ultima Online again with better graphics. That's not a bad thing but its not something that will keep me interested for very long.

arent u glad u can still play wow and eq then?

i asked you but you never answered, are you willing to endure months and months and months of pvp just so you can do some top end pve? maybe you mean something else by deep pve. aoc will have quests, stories, etc, etc. or do you mean very difficult instanced dungeons?

since you said you werent interested ni pvp, and you will have to pvp here to do pve, no matter how deep the pve is, you probably wont play anyways. why try to change the game then? leave it as it is for those who already enjoy the concept.

First of all saying that people should just go back and play games that are 2 decades old is not really a good way to start a conversation, its just you trying to be a jackass.

They have this discussion forum to talk about the game and offer suggestions on how to make it better so that is what I'm doing. One option they could easily add is a warmode type option that you could turn on and off, so when you want to pvp you can turn it on and when you don't you can turn it off and go do your thing.

The last thing I'll say is why would they have the holy trinity group design for a game that is just focused on pvp? How exactly is a cleric going to kill another player?? So if they are going to build an amazing looking world and have holy trinity group design and all the stuff that would make for an epic pve game and only 20 percent of the game has pve and the other 80 percent of the game is focused on 12 year old just trying to kill each other then it just seems like a big waste.

yeah i usually try not to tell people to go play another game, even tho most of the time thats the appropate response. i also been in some game forums where you get banned for saying that. but every day its the same thing, pve players trying to change and ruin the game. your suggestion isnt a good suggestion even though you might think it is. i dont go to pve games forum and tell them to add ow pvp, why they come here to change the game?

feedback is different from trying to re design the game.

a war mode isnt deep or meaningful pve. you could have the lamest pve ever and warmode, and still have the lamest pve ever. so your suggestion isnt deep pve, its a war mode. why it isnt a good suggestion? because the game was thought and designed with open world pvp and you cant simply just change it last minute to optional without affecting tons of other systems. thats the part you arent understanding. look at what happened to nw when they did that. your suggestion will only frustrate those who like the game as it is.

if you dont wanna ow pvp, when someone attacks you, dont attack back, 99% of the times they will go find someone else to fight. and of course dont be a dick, dont pve grief and provoke people.

also if you think a healer cant kill someone in pvp, i recommend you to play l2 then, try 1v1 vs any support characters in older chronicles and you will feel complete despair and hoplesness. its a holy trinity based game

also you can kill people in 1v1 with a priest in ro in pvp rooms with no potions if you were a really good priest. bards and gypsies also could beat some builds in 1v1 with no pots. again, holy trinity game

Noaani

morphwastaken wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Considering L2 to be a PvX game as opposed to a PvP game is like considering FFXIV to be a PvX game rather than a PvE game.

You have shown endless times that you have no clue what PvX game is. Why do you think your opinion on L2 matters to anyone?
From AoC wiki:

Ashes of Creation is a PvX game. Players will naturally encounter both PvP and PvE elements. It is unlikely that a player could purely focus on just PvP or just PvE. Around 80% of the content is open-world, where healthy competition is an instigator for player friction; for potential cooperation; for the ability to yield alliances; and the political theater that comes with it. This is an intended part of the PvX game design.

Yes, Ashes is trying to market itself as a PvX game because they know the PvP MMO crowd is small. That doesn't make it true.

I've said many times on these forums that PvX is a marketing term, not a description of gameplay. You referencing Ashes marketing doesn't alter that fact.

Noaani

Depraved wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

what is a pvx game anyways?

Better to ask for a list of PvX MMORPGs.

Here is my list of PvX MMORPG's, both released and in development;

That is all.

The thing is, since there isn't an actual definition of PvX, no one can say I'm wrong - they can just disagree subjectively.

Noaani wrote: »

morphwastaken wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

You say this as if a game that doesn't have enough content for its players is a good thing.

PvX = infinite content. Endless combination of places, monsters, enemies and friends.

I mean, this isn't true.

This is what people that feel the need to essentially romanticize PvP say. It isn't how PvX games play out in practice.

Dygz wrote: »

morphwastaken wrote: »

PvX = infinite content. Endless combination of places, monsters, enemies and friends.

PvX = endless combat
There. I fixed it for you.

Dygz wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

what is a pvx game anyways?

Better to ask for a list of PvX MMORPGs.

Ultima online
Ragnarok online
Lineage
Tera
Aion
Albion
Mortal Online
BDO
EVE
Revelations Online
Granado Espada
Blade and Soul
Forsaken World
Perfect World
Archeage
Minecraft

im probably forgetting a couple. some of these tilt more towards pvp or pve. and a couple of these arent purely pvx all the time as they separate pvp and pve to some extent, even if they don't separate the gear, however, they have an optional pvx mode, so i still included them.

you could also say gw has an optinal pvx mode if you play in the ow pvp map, and wow was pvx at first, although not required to progress

i think tibia is also pvx, but i didnt play it so cant confirm. i dont remember rift too much but i think it can be included here.

ill update if i remember more games. oh and of course ashes of creation, and probably throne and liberty, but we will see with that one.

If we are going to consider EVE to be PvX then we also need to consider WoW to be PvX. The PvE in EVE is about as integral to the game as the PvP in WoW is, and so including one but not the other is simply a show of bias.

Same can be said of both EQ games.

Based on this, we then have to assume that basically all MMO's are PvX, and neither PvP or PvE MMO's exist.

So, if we want PvP, PvE and PvX games to exist, the above list isn't accurate. If we want the above list to be accurate, then we need to basically consider all MMO's to be PvX.

Depraved

i didnt include wow, even though i thought about it, because wow isnt a game, as ive explained before. its basically 2 games in one. you have a pve game and a pvp game. and i explained wow was pvx at first, but not required.

i didnt add eq because i didnt play eq so i dont know. but it could be pvx as well. i only listed games ive played and remembered them, except for eve and minecraft, and ive played more thant arent pvx so didnt list them. i listed eve and mc because of what i know about those games, but even if exclude them, the list still stands true

Depraved

it would be more accurate to say that there isnt a mmorpg that is purely pvp, instead of saying that pvx doesnt exist.

but many mmorpg have different game modes. example, you can take guild wars and lost ark pvp arenas and make a stand alone game, and then, they would be pvp mmorpg. also, lost ark was purely pvx at first in korea, there was no equalized arenas. but la tilts more towards pve. you could ignore pvp arenas but there were pvp islands with rewards. but i would say its also 2 games in one now.

Ludullu

Jindoshi wrote: »

The last thing I'll say is why would they have the holy trinity group design for a game that is just focused on pvp? How exactly is a cleric going to kill another player?? So if they are going to build an amazing looking world and have holy trinity group design and all the stuff that would make for an epic pve game and only 20 percent of the game has pve and the other 80 percent of the game is focused on 12 year old just trying to kill each other then it just seems like a big waste.

Adding to what Depraved said, the game is balanced for party play and not solo play. And in party play the healer "kills" other players by keeping his mates alive while they do the attacking, because the party is a single fighting unit.

Lineage 2 was build with trinity in mind and its pve was basic as fuck, while it had a ton of amazing pvp.

Noaani

Depraved wrote: »

it would be more accurate to say that there isnt a mmorpg that is purely pvp, instead of saying that pvx doesnt exist.

This I can sort of agree with.

CS:GO is a PvP game. There is no PvE st all. However, you can't have an MMORPG that is all PvP - it simply lacks basic fundamental elements to be considered an MMORPG.

What this says to me then, is that you don't just say there are no PvP MMO's. Rather, you shift the scale.

An MMORPG that only has the basic PvE elements needed to be considered an MMORPG should be considered a PvP MMORPG, not a PvX. Basically, if your PvE only exists to give players something to fight over, your MMORPG is a PvP MMORPG - even if that amount t of PvE in a different genre would make it a PvX game.

Since everything in Ashes exists to be fought over (I challenge anyone to come up with a piece of content that isn't designed to be fought over in some way), this game should be considered PvP in terms of MMORPG's.

George_Black

Dota is a pve game. It has creeps. It also has raiding.

Mag7spy

George_Black wrote: »

Dota is a pve game. It has creeps. It also has raiding.

I hope this comment is a troll.

Azherae

Mag7spy wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

Dota is a pve game. It has creeps. It also has raiding.

I hope this comment is a troll.

I feel like the hotkey for 'Taunt' on George's hotbar is stuck lately.

Mag7spy

Azherae wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

Dota is a pve game. It has creeps. It also has raiding.

I hope this comment is a troll.

I feel like the hotkey for 'Taunt' on George's hotbar is stuck lately.

O god I'm getting player taunted irl, now i know how my guildmates felt in friendly pvp lmao.

Depraved

Noaani wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

it would be more accurate to say that there isnt a mmorpg that is purely pvp, instead of saying that pvx doesnt exist.

This I can sort of agree with.

CS:GO is a PvP game. There is no PvE st all. However, you can't have an MMORPG that is all PvP - it simply lacks basic fundamental elements to be considered an MMORPG.

What this says to me then, is that you don't just say there are no PvP MMO's. Rather, you shift the scale.

An MMORPG that only has the basic PvE elements needed to be considered an MMORPG should be considered a PvP MMORPG, not a PvX. Basically, if your PvE only exists to give players something to fight over, your MMORPG is a PvP MMORPG - even if that amount t of PvE in a different genre would make it a PvX game.

Since everything in Ashes exists to be fought over (I challenge anyone to come up with a piece of content that isn't designed to be fought over in some way), this game should be considered PvP in terms of MMORPG's.

actually the fundamentals of of an rpg have nothing to do with combat, so you could have an mmorpg without pve and it would still be an rpg. probably for honor or gta 5 online are the pvp mmorpg, who knows.

for example, lost ark arena is a pvp mmorpg, and as much as i like the pvp in LA, the arena gets boring to me after a while. 5-6 matches and i wanna do somethign else. matches are quite short so basically one hour of pvp and im done. there were days were i could do arena for several hours, especially when i was learning. but i suppose many people experience that. maybe thats why there isnt a pure pvp mmorpg.

you could say mobas are the closest thing, bu tmatches are longr, so it feels like you didnt play a lot in one hour.

you could also consider ro instant wow servers a pure pvp mmorpg, since you dont have to farm or anything and just pvp /castle siege / battleground, even tho the game is not just pvp, but in those servers no one does pve, and they are quite popular. i still prefer the pvx tho

Noaani

Depraved wrote: »

probably for honor or gta 5 online are the pvp mmorpg, who knows.

Neither of these games consider themselves to be an MMORPG.

MOBA's aren't MMORPG's. Lost Arks arenas are not an MMORPG in and of themselves.

Dygz

Depraved wrote: »

you just said YOU consider. so if you consider a table to be a chair because you can sit on it, then its not a table, its a chair. reality doesnt matter, only what YOU consider. right?
also, i like i said, some of those games re more pve centric than pvp, but they are still pvx

I would say that some people are calling a table a chable.
I ask for some examples of a chable because I don't really know what a chable is and most of the examples listed are what I would call a table.

At the end of the day, the label is irrelevant... as long as whatever the parameters of the object/subject are clear.
It's fine to call a Fanta Orange a coke, even though it's not what I would call it. As long as I can understand that a coke is what I would call a soda.

Dygz

Depraved wrote: »

actually the fundamentals of of an rpg have nothing to do with combat, so you could have an mmorpg without pve and it would still be an rpg. probably for honor or gta 5 online are the pvp mmorpg, who knows.

Not really.
Again, that would be like saying Fanta Orange can be a coke.
For Honor and GTA 5 Online are not RPGs.

George_Black

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