Once all ZOI's have 17 Nodes, Why Fight Eachother?

So, each of the 5 Metropolises will be the capital of 5 Zones of Influence (ZOI's) "Node-kingdoms" as 85 / 5 = 17.

We've heard of Node Relics: items that Node-cities can store in their central reliquary, that grant special bonuses, to their Nodes/lord-cities/vassal Nodes. However....

What reasons will the 5 ZOI/kingdoms fight, beyond this? Have been scratching my brain for the last while, trying to figure out WHY - if the ZOI's can only claim a max of 20% of the world - we'd be fighting, once each ZOI reaches it's max size.

Have we heard yet of other things that will incentivize kingdom v kingdom wars and struggles?

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Raven016

Azherae wrote: »

If you mean 'what would bring down a whole nation', probably nothing. At the 'lockout' values Intrepid gave us, I wouldn't expect any of the second-gen metros to fall until year 2 end.

So nodes falling will be a sign of the game dying. People losing motivation to defend the nodes or do whatever grind is needed to be able to defend them.

daveywavey

Because your node held the record for lasting 45 days, and the next closest is nearing that record.

daveywavey

Raven016 wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

If you mean 'what would bring down a whole nation', probably nothing. At the 'lockout' values Intrepid gave us, I wouldn't expect any of the second-gen metros to fall until year 2 end.

So nodes falling will be a sign of the game dying. People losing motivation to defend the nodes or do whatever grind is needed to be able to defend them.

?

Nodes falling is an intended part of the game design.

Raven016

daveywavey wrote: »

Raven016 wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

If you mean 'what would bring down a whole nation', probably nothing. At the 'lockout' values Intrepid gave us, I wouldn't expect any of the second-gen metros to fall until year 2 end.

So nodes falling will be a sign of the game dying. People losing motivation to defend the nodes or do whatever grind is needed to be able to defend them.

?

Nodes falling is an intended part of the game design.

That's what I thought too but during the last interview with Steven, I noticed he diverted a question toward guild wars instead.
Maybe nodes will be balanced to last long time and players encouraged to participate more in castle sieges and guild wars.

Azherae

Raven016 wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

If you mean 'what would bring down a whole nation', probably nothing. At the 'lockout' values Intrepid gave us, I wouldn't expect any of the second-gen metros to fall until year 2 end.

So nodes falling will be a sign of the game dying. People losing motivation to defend the nodes or do whatever grind is needed to be able to defend them.

I don't think so, I generally expect really strong MMOs to be 10 years of gaming.

But in the end, we know that at the moment, there is a 60 day lockout on attacking a Metro that succeeds in defense.

I personally would expect a Metro that was established for, say, 3 months, and people living around it like it, and like where it is, to succeed at its defense 2x before anyone 'gets bored' of defending it.

So that's (in my mind) 7 months for most beloved Metropoli to stand, before things start to get to the point of 'wait maybe it would be better to not'.

It also relies on their content cycle and 'lockouts' on certain content. If you can only fight certain dungeon bosses once every 3 days or even a week, and those are related to the Metro being up... then at least part of the fight is going to be 'the people who want new content after doing it 10-20 times' vs 'the people who want to fight it without having to build up a new Metro'.

Stuff like that.

I'm used to games with long life cycles though, so maybe that's my issue.

Aces_Are_Wild

I believe their will always be special rewards for taking over nods, special ones that are high level and I am sure people would love to take over a nax level nod just for the trolls or even change of it

Depraved

or the attackers are too strong?

Veeshan

Azherae wrote: »

Politics? Roleplay? Literal ideological ingame differences that cause strong conflict (separate from RP)?

People always fight at the borders, in my experience, even if there's not that much to gain from doing so.

If you mean 'what would bring down a whole nation', probably nothing. At the 'lockout' values Intrepid gave us, I wouldn't expect any of the second-gen metros to fall until year 2 end.

all it takes is somone in guild A killing the wrong guild leader to start a node war tbh

lol

And you know some people are gonna try and assasinate the mayor nodes when they see him for lol's which could start something too

Veeshan

Raven016 wrote: »

daveywavey wrote: »

Raven016 wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

If you mean 'what would bring down a whole nation', probably nothing. At the 'lockout' values Intrepid gave us, I wouldn't expect any of the second-gen metros to fall until year 2 end.

So nodes falling will be a sign of the game dying. People losing motivation to defend the nodes or do whatever grind is needed to be able to defend them.

?

Nodes falling is an intended part of the game design.

That's what I thought too but during the last interview with Steven, I noticed he diverted a question toward guild wars instead.
Maybe nodes will be balanced to last long time and players encouraged to participate more in castle sieges and guild wars.

there pretty much the same thing im pretty sure, Guild war allow you to kil somone of the enemy guild while node wars allow you to kill somone of enemy node. Then it expands further into castle or node seiges from my understanding atleast

Raven016

Azherae wrote: »

Raven016 wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

If you mean 'what would bring down a whole nation', probably nothing. At the 'lockout' values Intrepid gave us, I wouldn't expect any of the second-gen metros to fall until year 2 end.

So nodes falling will be a sign of the game dying. People losing motivation to defend the nodes or do whatever grind is needed to be able to defend them.

It also relies on their content cycle and 'lockouts' on certain content. If you can only fight certain dungeon bosses once every 3 days or even a week, and those are related to the Metro being up... then at least part of the fight is going to be 'the people who want new content after doing it 10-20 times' vs 'the people who want to fight it without having to build up a new Metro'.

These 'lockouts' feel both good and bad at the same time. Like looking at the half full or half empty glass.
Players who have freeholds will not be happy losing them. If that metro falls, the metro nation might split. Maybe only half of nodes stay in the new metro.
Could be that some metros will be very stable while one or two will be rebuilt often?

Raven016

George_Black wrote: »

Raven016 wrote: »

What I am curious about, is what players want.
Given a node siege in a war between two factions which are not yours, which side will you join?
I think I will join the defenders side by default, if they fight against stronger enemies.
Not sure if I would help attackers against the bigger stronger nodes.

Why would you join if you are not allied to any of them? Go lvl up for yourself. I get it when there are reasons to be involved, but many times in other games I didn't feel the need to pick a side in every major event that my side didn't have a stake in it.

I don't know. That's how I feel now.
After alpha 2 I might have a different attitude.

Zipp_Adoudel

Each ZOI will only be 11 big. so there will be nodes that arent in a ZOI.

PVP for PVP sake is only keeps people entertained for a certian amount of time. Resource locks or content that is being blocked, Revenge or betrayal, rivalries, new dungeons, faster travel, changing controlling guild, best crafting: Those are all reasons to fight. The game is going in a direction that always has conflicting choices and those conflicts will create the story.

Tyranthraxus

Zipp_Adoudel wrote: »

Each ZOI will only be 11 big. so there will be nodes that arent in a ZOI.

I'm not finding this number, anywhere. The wiki states that each Metropolis will gain a ZOI up to a max of 1/5 of the world. 85 / 5 = 17, and Castle-Nodes will work in a different way.

Guild wars interest me in the way they'll be managed. SS had elaborated on some of the potential goals of guild wars, but I don't see these driving ZOI versus ZOI conflicts.

Nerror

Relics, guys, relics.

Taking down a node to steal their relics in the reliquary is hopefully also a common theme, due to the big advantages they should give. Like access to high end gear materials like dragon scales and such.

Percimes

Boredom.

Never underestimate how much being bored can crank up people's creativity for doing stupid dangerous things.

Zipp_Adoudel

Tyranthraxus wrote: »

Zipp_Adoudel wrote: »

Each ZOI will only be 11 big. so there will be nodes that arent in a ZOI.

I'm not finding this number, anywhere. The wiki states that each Metropolis will gain a ZOI up to a max of 1/5 of the world. 85 / 5 = 17, and Castle-Nodes will work in a different way.

Guild wars interest me in the way they'll be managed. SS had elaborated on some of the potential goals of guild wars, but I don't see these driving ZOI versus ZOI conflicts.

I was off by 2 it is only 13 https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Metropolis

Azherae

Zipp_Adoudel wrote: »

Tyranthraxus wrote: »

Zipp_Adoudel wrote: »

Each ZOI will only be 11 big. so there will be nodes that arent in a ZOI.

I'm not finding this number, anywhere. The wiki states that each Metropolis will gain a ZOI up to a max of 1/5 of the world. 85 / 5 = 17, and Castle-Nodes will work in a different way.

Guild wars interest me in the way they'll be managed. SS had elaborated on some of the potential goals of guild wars, but I don't see these driving ZOI versus ZOI conflicts.

I was off by 2 it is only 13 https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Metropolis

Yes, I believe they somewhat recently simplified this down in specific ways.

(for those who are looking, there's no specific number 13 on the page, you're looking for an image with a Node Tree)

Raven016

Nerror wrote: »

Relics, guys, relics.

Taking down a node to steal their relics in the reliquary is hopefully also a common theme, due to the big advantages they should give. Like access to high end gear materials like dragon scales and such.

If relics bring big advantages, why would the node lose the fight?

Aszkalon

Raven016 wrote: »

Given a node siege in a war between two factions which are not yours, which side will you join?

Not unlikely the Side which i like more / like more to have as my Ally.

Who would probably fly better with my own Character ? Who has probably more the Mindset of what our Nodes should be like ? More the Mindset i agree with ? From Design, due to which's "Races" Infrastructure should be dominant in the City,

( i already smile and grin about People who will shriek Racism in this Game, hahahahah. )

And of Course, which Side is more profitable as an Ally for the possible Guild i should be inside in.

novercalis

There should be 1 more NODE TYPE..

Cause currently - if the server was to min/max we would have each type, economy, religion, etc.

But if there was 6 node types but only 5 can be in the world - then we have a reason for another node to fight their parent to build this other type of node.

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