Corruption system abuses ?

While waiting for alpha2 my mind is wondering about the corruption system ...

It feel like it can go wrong in both ways : for the griefed and for the non-griefer. The corruption is applied if a combatant kill a non-combatant:
- The combatant can harass the non-combatant (always leaving him low life, preventing him from playing)
- Some guilds/people might use this system to their advantage: bring non-combatant to threat other guilds of getting corrupted if they want to contest or other tricks

It's the good old debate: Is it better to have an innocent person in prison than a guilty one free?

It feels like this kind of system will be very tricky since people will try to abuse it. Does this kind of system exists in other mmorpg ? How did it go ?

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Veeshan

Dygz wrote: »

Veeshan wrote: »

You do in old school PvE games or PvP games

We're talking about MMORPGs... and Ashes...specifically.

i am too Everquest fro example you claim a camp all mobs associated to that camp generally belongs to the party in said camp, you would never pull from someone else camp so effectly claiming that camp as a group you would own those mobs taking them is very frond upon.
And tbh ashes resembles the play of pre WoW games were camping mobs spots were the norm so it could possible resemble ashes of creation more however we do need more information on how bosses and thing work in dungeons will people go from boss to boss seeing if they spawned or will they be more into camping a boss spot and farming around it waiting for it to spawn if it ends up this way then it very much closer to Everquest playstyle and mob camps which would technicaly be owning mobs till a group kills you and claims it off you

Veeshan

I persoanly thing your abusing the corruption system if you go into a spot somone else is farming get killed and u go back and die again in the same spot till he get super corrupted.
Its boarderling PvE griefing the spot that guy at probaly can sustain more than that 1 person farming and if he waiting on respawns cause somone else comes so he kills them so the bugger off and they keep coming back forcing him to kill him again or farm ineffienctly waiting on respawns then tbh imo that would be abusing a system and tbh dieing in the same spot withing x minutes of your last death shouldnt yield or greatly reduced corruption penalty for the person killing them again

Ludullu

Veeshan wrote: »

I persoanly thing your abusing the corruption system if you go into a spot somone else is farming get killed and u go back and die again in the same spot till he get super corrupted.
Its boarderling PvE griefing the spot that guy at probaly can sustain more than that 1 person farming and if he waiting on respawns cause somone else comes so he kills them so the bugger off and they keep coming back forcing him to kill him again or farm ineffienctly waiting on respawns then tbh imo that would be abusing a system and tbh dieing in the same spot withing x minutes of your last death shouldnt yield or greatly reduced corruption penalty for the person killing them again

This is the reason why I don't want any changes to the corruption system along the lines of "you should get corruption for hits" or smth like that.

Though I still think that seeing your target's nameplate decay state is not needed. If you can't deal with a pve griefer through pve means and if he doesn't leave (or stop farming) when you flag on him - your attempts at killing him through mobs should be difficult. And they should be that way because PKing is for the weak, so if you want to avoid it - you gotta be at least a tiny bit stronger than "oonga boonga I'm gonna hit you till you die".

Dygz

Hartassen wrote: »

I understand that but there is information about the corruption system readily available for those who wish to learn more about it. Most if not all concerns raised about the corruption system are already fixed (like being perma red, or gangs running around killing people for no reason) etcetera.

Obviously, there will be a learning curve for newbies.

Dygz

Veeshan wrote: »

i am too Everquest fro example you claim a camp all mobs associated to that camp generally belongs to the party in said camp, you would never pull from someone else camp so effectly claiming that camp as a group you would own those mobs taking them is very frond upon.
And tbh ashes resembles the play of pre WoW games were camping mobs spots were the norm so it could possible resemble ashes of creation more however we do need more information on how bosses and thing work in dungeons will people go from boss to boss seeing if they spawned or will they be more into camping a boss spot and farming around it waiting for it to spawn if it ends up this way then it very much closer to Everquest playstyle and mob camps which would technicaly be owning mobs till a group kills you and claims it off you

You can try to camp mobs if you want to. That does not mean the game has mechanics designed to help you do that. Actually owning a mob would be where the the game ignores damage from other players after the first tag. Ashes does not have mechanics like that.

In Ashes, other groups choosing to remove you from "your" camp should be expected.
You're either able to defend the camp or you're not.

Aszkalon

Hartassen wrote: »

This topic is so tiresome, nearly always it's someone who hasn't read up on the system and therefore does not understand it.

Welp. I have read it.

There is this "weird, gooey, glowy, red Stuff" in the Game that is ALSO called Corruption, right ?

And City-Guards for Example, treat every "corrupted Character" like a Monster. Some kind of "Corruption-Zombie" that must be slain.

( Not as cool as the Monster Coin, though. HELL JEAH it's like WoW's Zombie Event. But cooler ^.^ )

Hartassen wrote: »

Stop trying to kill all open world pvp.

^
|
This. THIS is the best and sole single Line that is the most important thing. 100.000% agree.

Make Open World PvP Great Again, Folks. This needs to be a constant Content inside the Game that never gets old.

Aszkalon

NiKr wrote: »

If literally max progression lvl players decide to go PK people at lower stages of progression - the game's design will have failed completely.

Absolutely not. Though i admit, this could become a Problem for Lowlevel Players if nobody wants to step up for them.

Hey NiKr ... ... * shows You Bountyhunter Invite Certificate with a wink * ;-]

Feeling up to hunt a few Badboys ? I know i am. 😁

NiKr wrote: »

The entire point of the corruption system is to prevent this exact shit.

* John Cena Voice * - ARE You sure about that ??

Would be kinda sad if People can not be Badboys, because like the whole System is immediately turned 100% against them.

If that would be the Case -> then "why" being able to attack fellow Players at all ? ; >
Why even being able to "get flagged" purple or red ?

NiKr wrote: »

It won't be fun for anyone who is not the PKer or the BH. What it will do though, is destroy any remaining shreds of casual/semi-casual players in the game, because they'd be the ones not fighting back.

But it is encouraged to fight back to become at least flagged purple -> because it reduced the Costs/Loss when being killed, right ?

And being flagged Purple is completely fine. It is not different from being a green Player. Only the "Red/Corrupted" Ones are in Danger of higher Punishment.

NiKr wrote: »

If Intrepid see that a lot of players decide to go corrupt - they'll rebalance their system to prevent that. This is literally what Steven has stated directly.

Jeah jeah, he said that.

But when he goes to far - and you make it sound like he might -> then why giving Players the Opportunity to attack other Players at all ? ;-3

I imagine that Opportunity and Possibility to attack other Players only for one simple Reason.

And it's the Fight over Ressources.

Oh ! You want to dismantle these few Stones of the blue Ore ? To bad. Someone is already there hacking away at them. OOORRR maybe You want to murder this Competition and sack all his Loot he has already put into his Pockets ?

Same with Wood Cutters. Whoopsie-Daisy. Nice to see you want to support your Node by farming Wood. But guess what i want to with " MY NODE " (lol) nearby that could use this beautiful Wood also that you just farmed ??

Or Competition over hunting small Animals for Flesh. Or Competition over hunting Medium- to big-sided Animals for decent Leather Amounts ... ...

The Reasons for Players to maybe want to bash each others' Heads in, are always there.

Sure, Yes. Players get corrupt if they murder someone who hasn't fought back in the least. If you kill other Players for your own Node - but then arrive "corrupted" at your Node where any City Guards are present : you get butchered by them as well, right ?

And i read You CAN'T* give Players your Stuff from the Inventory when You are corrupted ? Welp, sounds like you would need some "Friends" nearby the Place where You want to place your Loot : so they can kill You there and take it from your Corpse directly. x'D

( I am not kidding. I see always Possibilities how Players can attempt going around not being profitable at all as Ressource Gatherers when they are corrupted. But it would be a lot of Work in a Sense. )

OOORRR - > Only "One" of them (lol) kills the poor Competition - > then becomes corrupt,

and then a few NON-CORRUPTED Players who are in Cahoots with him, loot the Body of the slain Competitor but can deliver the stolen Ressources to the own Node, without getting obliterated into Oblivion by the Guards there.

I see Challenges coming to the Developers when the Games releases - > MANY Players will be online,

and then Incidents, Events and Happenings will pop up - which if Course weren't there when the Game was still just tested as an Alpha and/or Beta. 🙃

Ludullu

Aszkalon wrote: »

The Reasons for Players to maybe want to bash each others' Heads in, are always there.

And it's for those reasons that we can murder each other in the game. But you're not meant to "be a corrupted player". Becoming corrupted means immediately running away to remove your corruption, either through dying to friends, as you pointed out further on in this comment, or by killing mobs (most likely also with friends' help).

The only "bad boy gameplay" is just running around permaflagged by slapping any person you see. That's the "fight me, you bastards" gameplay style. Open seas is the same concept, which is also why Dygz immediately said that those who want to PK everyone they see can just be pirates.

tautau

Keep in mind that Red players will have some of the best drops in the game...potential full gear sets, weapons, mats...all kinds of crap might drop when you kill a red. Fools (particularly high-level ones) who go red are like Christmas morning for all the rest of us!

Veeshan

tautau wrote: »

Keep in mind that Red players will have some of the best drops in the game...potential full gear sets, weapons, mats...all kinds of crap might drop when you kill a red. Fools (particularly high-level ones) who go red are like Christmas morning for all the rest of us!

99% of them will be using easy to get throw away gear and take a more challenging fight due to being less geared

Raven016

Veeshan wrote: »

tautau wrote: »

Keep in mind that Red players will have some of the best drops in the game...potential full gear sets, weapons, mats...all kinds of crap might drop when you kill a red. Fools (particularly high-level ones) who go red are like Christmas morning for all the rest of us!

99% of them will be using easy to get throw away gear and take a more challenging fight due to being less geared

For fun or for profit?
For fun I doubt it will be practical. I mean they might not get fun without dying unless being chased and killed is the fun they need.
For profit will be better to have high tier gear and be in a group.

Veeshan

Raven016 wrote: »

Veeshan wrote: »

tautau wrote: »

Keep in mind that Red players will have some of the best drops in the game...potential full gear sets, weapons, mats...all kinds of crap might drop when you kill a red. Fools (particularly high-level ones) who go red are like Christmas morning for all the rest of us!

99% of them will be using easy to get throw away gear and take a more challenging fight due to being less geared

For fun or for profit?
For fun I doubt it will be practical. I mean they might not get fun without dying unless being chased and killed is the fun they need.
For profit will be better to have high tier gear and be in a group.

if for profit just gank harvester or people in mob camps, harvester almost always prioritise running and mob camps u can catch them lower hp so you can do that in lower end gear in most cases.
there the only ones worth killing for profit since they drop the certificate or materials other player tend not to drop anything since most people wont be running around with full material inventory

Raven016

Veeshan wrote: »

Raven016 wrote: »

Veeshan wrote: »

tautau wrote: »

Keep in mind that Red players will have some of the best drops in the game...potential full gear sets, weapons, mats...all kinds of crap might drop when you kill a red. Fools (particularly high-level ones) who go red are like Christmas morning for all the rest of us!

99% of them will be using easy to get throw away gear and take a more challenging fight due to being less geared

For fun or for profit?
For fun I doubt it will be practical. I mean they might not get fun without dying unless being chased and killed is the fun they need.
For profit will be better to have high tier gear and be in a group.

if for profit just gank harvester or people in mob camps, harvester almost always prioritise running and mob camps u can catch them lower hp so you can do that in lower end gear in most cases.
there the only ones worth killing for profit since they drop the certificate or materials other player tend not to drop anything since most people wont be running around with full material inventory

So you refer mostly to solo 1v1 interaction?
Ganking a gatherer is waste of time for profit when you already have high tier gear.
Near mob spawns I don't know. The higher mob levels are, the bigger the chance to encounter more players who will also be in teams or ready to hunt you if you are corrupt. Having low level gear with intent to gank is will be a waste of time.

Raven016

Dagera wrote: »

Corruption system abuses ?

While waiting for alpha2 my mind is wondering about the corruption system ...

It feel like it can go wrong in both ways : for the griefed and for the non-griefer. The corruption is applied if a combatant kill a non-combatant:
- The combatant can harass the non-combatant (always leaving him low life, preventing him from playing)
- Some guilds/people might use this system to their advantage: bring non-combatant to threat other guilds of getting corrupted if they want to contest or other tricks

It's the good old debate: Is it better to have an innocent person in prison than a guilty one free?

It feels like this kind of system will be very tricky since people will try to abuse it. Does this kind of system exists in other mmorpg ? How did it go ?

If a party keeps another player's health low but they are not willing to kill that player, then they won, for a short time using the game mechanics. It is not an abuse.
The player will go away, heal and if he thinks he can defeat them, he will come back. If he cannot win but can only apply the same tactic of ambushing them while have low health and keep their health low, then they will retreat for a short time.
Eventually someone will come and kill them.

Depraved

if someone is attacking ou keeping you at low health and you cant fight back, be with a group or farm another area

Voeltz

@Aszkalon you bring up a lot of good points that this crowd never thinks about or brushes off. I think you're all in for a surprise when they finally reveal more on corruption like the open seas update and its not how you claimed it would be. Open flagging, Corruption and the Bounty Hunter systems are all interconnected and would not be in the game if they are not intended to be used. Also resource loss on death and reduced corruption at Military nodes only encourages it. Why have any of this if corruption is not a purposely designed gameplay loop? Steven said they will make adjustments during A2 if the system is either hardly used or used excessively.

Aszkalon

tautau wrote: »

Keep in mind that Red players will have some of the best drops in the game...potential full gear sets, weapons, mats...all kinds of crap might drop when you kill a red. Fools (particularly high-level ones) who go red are like Christmas morning for all the rest of us!

Now THAAAT sounds delightful ... ... ... >:-)

Veeshan wrote: »

99% of them will be using easy to get throw away gear and take a more challenging fight due to being less geared

Like in DarkSouls. x'D People fighting in their Underwear or in Rags.

TRUE MURDER HOBOS in a Sense, ha ha ha hah.

Aszkalon

Voeltz wrote: »

@Aszkalon you bring up a lot of good points that this crowd never thinks about or brushes off.

Thanks.

I mean, it's just logical - isn't it ? People right now - have enough time to read what awaits them if they go corrupt.

So if they don't want to be careful - not getting killed to early for going red,
AAANNND if they might have a few People with the same, "PK~ish kind of Mindset", they might attempt successfully or unsuccessfully, to negate the negative Effects for themselves, of what happens when they become Red Players.

I could imagine, that the Developers would " fight " this Motivation to try and go around the Consequences for becoming red, with something like a Cooldown.

Like : when You get flagged red/become a corrupted Player - You can't become purple or green again - if not One or several Hours of Time you have spend in the Game has passed,

NO MATTER HOW OFTEN you are killed in the meantime by for Example Bountyhunters. 🤣👍

Or -> the just described Scenario "could" happen -> if you get flagged red very often : in a very short Amount of time.

Like -> You don't get flagged Red once in a Week or so -> but like +10 Times in a single Day ?? Indicating that you "MIGHT have Friends" who help You getting set back to normal by killing You,

but you are not in Danger of losing any of your probably nice Gear - because your Friends will always return it to You, once they taken it as a Drop from your Corpse ?

If the System detects, that several Players use the System to get a SINGLE ONE of them around the Risks, Danger and Consequences of their own Actions,

why not intentionally increase the Time, in which a Player can be killed by Everyone for being corrupted ?

Or EVEN BETTER : make it impossible that People can "take your Gear" - who have already killed You several Times in the last Hour or Hours, when You were a Red Player ?

Meaning People would need MAAANYYYYY Characters per Account - if they would want to repeat the way of taking their "Friends" Gear by killing him, to get him out of the red.

If it isn't Account-locked in the first Place by killing a corrupted Player several Times - and more Characters wouldn't be able to help him to secure his Gear in Case someone kills him. 😁 😁 😁

Ludullu

High numbers of PK count will fuck over your character in more ways than just "omg, I dropped an item". This is why I'm pretty certain people will just use alts to PK, which is also why I want PK count to be account-wide.

Songcaller

NiKr wrote: »

High numbers of PK count will fuck over your character in more ways than just "omg, I dropped an item". This is why I'm pretty certain people will just use alts to PK, which is also why I want PK count to be account-wide.

Nah. Account wide pk would suck. I know a lot of people don't rp but from an rp stand point account wide anything sucks.

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