Once all ZOI's have 17 Nodes, Why Fight Eachother?

So, each of the 5 Metropolises will be the capital of 5 Zones of Influence (ZOI's) "Node-kingdoms" as 85 / 5 = 17.

We've heard of Node Relics: items that Node-cities can store in their central reliquary, that grant special bonuses, to their Nodes/lord-cities/vassal Nodes. However....

What reasons will the 5 ZOI/kingdoms fight, beyond this? Have been scratching my brain for the last while, trying to figure out WHY - if the ZOI's can only claim a max of 20% of the world - we'd be fighting, once each ZOI reaches it's max size.

Have we heard yet of other things that will incentivize kingdom v kingdom wars and struggles?

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Dygz

It won’t really “reform” the same way.
Most likely the new Metro will have a different Node Type and have a different Racial dominance.
We can also expect a different layout and different Social Orgs and Religions having prominence.

Tyranthraxus

Xeeg wrote: »

Another part of this is question is that if you already have a bunch of ZOIs set up, and you only kill 1, then it will reform as itself again because the other ZOIs are already set up.

Dygz wrote: »

It won’t really “reform” the same way.
Most likely the new Metro will have a different Node Type and have a different Racial dominance.
We can also expect a different layout and different Social Orgs and Religions having prominence.

To my understanding, the arrangement of the Node-types is permanent; A Scientific Node will always be Scientific, even if it was successfully sieged/destroyed. Was bummed when this was revealed/elaborated, but it was explained as being necessary, in order to ensure the world-balance and number of Node types.

Ruerik

Now I have to rewatch again, because it was my understanding if you wanted your node to be metro, but it couldnt advance further because of a nearby node, you had to tear the metro down.

unknownsystemerror

Taerrik wrote: »

Now I have to rewatch again, because it was my understanding if you wanted your node to be metro, but it couldnt advance further because of a nearby node, you had to tear the metro down.

That is true. Being locked as a vassal means your node does not advance until that which is blocking you is removed.

Dygz wrote: »

When will the game release if we actually have 60-day lockouts for Node Sieges?

Certain mechanics need to be tested they can "put their thumb on the scale" so to speak. While the 10x the declaration scroll cooldown for a failed node siege can get up to 60 days for a metro, they can always adjust any and all cooldowns manually as they choose for testing. We have seen them do this in real time in various livestreams to show off seasons changing, node buildings being constructed, and others.

Raven016

Dygz wrote: »

daveywavey wrote: »

Raven016 wrote: »

Another thought I have is that the 'intended part' does not guarantee that players will like it.
Will we test node dynamic in alpha?
Will alpha 2 play style be relevant and reflect what players at release want?

The intent is that Alpha-2 will eventually be feature-complete so we'll be able to test everything together. So, we'll be testing everything to do with nodes along the way.

We probably won't be able to test time, though.
When will the game release if we actually have 60-day lockouts for Node Sieges?

I think Alpha 2 will last more than one year. Sieges could happen fast on lower level nodes too if the game put's some pressure onto players.
I'm not sure I want such a pressure.

Tyranthraxus wrote: »

Xeeg wrote: »

Another part of this is question is that if you already have a bunch of ZOIs set up, and you only kill 1, then it will reform as itself again because the other ZOIs are already set up.

Dygz wrote: »

It won’t really “reform” the same way.
Most likely the new Metro will have a different Node Type and have a different Racial dominance.
We can also expect a different layout and different Social Orgs and Religions having prominence.

To my understanding, the arrangement of the Node-types is permanent; A Scientific Node will always be Scientific, even if it was successfully sieged/destroyed. Was bummed when this was revealed/elaborated, but it was explained as being necessary, in order to ensure the world-balance and number of Node types.

Maybe to prevent players to create metas? So freedom and metas are bad.

Dygz

Tyranthraxus wrote: »

To my understanding, the arrangement of the Node-types is permanent; A Scientific Node will always be Scientific, even if it was successfully sieged/destroyed. Was bummed when this was revealed/elaborated, but it was explained as being necessary, in order to ensure the world-balance and number of Node types.

A Scientific Node is always a Scientific Node.
But, when a Scientific Metro is destroyed, it might be a former Divine or Military vassal that becomes dominant for the "reformed" Metro.
And, even if it's the same Scientific Node that becomes dominant for the "reformed" Metro, it won't have the exact same layout.

Fiddlez

Tyranthraxus wrote: »

So, each of the 5 Metropolises will be the capital of 5 Zones of Influence (ZOI's) "Node-kingdoms" as 85 / 5 = 17.

We've heard of Node Relics: items that Node-cities can store in their central reliquary, that grant special bonuses, to their Nodes/lord-cities/vassal Nodes. However....

What reasons will the 5 ZOI/kingdoms fight, beyond this? Have been scratching my brain for the last while, trying to figure out WHY - if the ZOI's can only claim a max of 20% of the world - we'd be fighting, once each ZOI reaches it's max size.

Have we heard yet of other things that will incentivize kingdom v kingdom wars and struggles?

Well I don't think it's just those 5. The ZOI is not allied territory. All of those nodes have reason. Plus if they think there's too many of one kind? Hard to say with out actually playing Alpha

Solvryn

Resources, only certain world structures certain events which allow players access to certain material.

If I have the “Dragonhammer of Aelaen” schematic and the only way to get access to the materials is a certain world event, I guess I’m going to trigger that world event.

If that requires 100 skulls of enemy players during a siege, I guess I’m sieging some folk.

That simple.

akabear

Tyranthraxus wrote: »

So, each of the 5 Metropolises will be the capital of 5 Zones of Influence (ZOI's) "Node-kingdoms" as 85 / 5 = 17.

We've heard of Node Relics: items that Node-cities can store in their central reliquary, that grant special bonuses, to their Nodes/lord-cities/vassal Nodes. However....

What reasons will the 5 ZOI/kingdoms fight, beyond this? Have been scratching my brain for the last while, trying to figure out WHY - if the ZOI's can only claim a max of 20% of the world - we'd be fighting, once each ZOI reaches it's max size.

Have we heard yet of other things that will incentivize kingdom v kingdom wars and struggles?

L2 had certain castles and vessel castles that were more valuable to hold than others and were therefore more highly competed over. The key ones generated the most income and unlocked certain raids.

With that experience, whilst Ashes have many available notes that can reach the metropolis level, there is likely one or two that will be most continue to bevaluable and highly sought after.

That value is yet to be determined and may end up being dynamic.. Preliminary thoughts are it might be location based (ie ocean facing with port/trading capability, close to the best resources) and relationship based (surrounded by nodes that are part of a greater alliance ), perhaps best trading routes (ie short, easy to defend).

The node must have some value to the players to make it worthwhile to obtain and continue to provide value to motivate to maintain and defend.

Veeshan

Taerrik wrote: »

Now I have to rewatch again, because it was my understanding if you wanted your node to be metro, but it couldnt advance further because of a nearby node, you had to tear the metro down.

I personaly think there should be an option to rebel against your node you are under but should be kinda a big deal in doing it and should either have alot of commitment for the mayor to start or downside if you loose the rebellion, Could either have the rebelling nodes all get bumped down a rank tier if they loose or suffer heavy taxes on loss,
This allows node to start internal conflict with eachother if they dont like the T5/6 node rule that there stuck under atm it seem the only option is to basicly buy a neighbouring node off to war dec them for you

Raven016

Veeshan wrote: »

Taerrik wrote: »

Now I have to rewatch again, because it was my understanding if you wanted your node to be metro, but it couldnt advance further because of a nearby node, you had to tear the metro down.

I personaly think there should be an option to rebel against your node you are under but should be kinda a big deal in doing it and should either have alot of commitment for the mayor to start or downside if you loose the rebellion, Could either have the rebelling nodes all get bumped down a rank tier if they loose or suffer heavy taxes on loss,
This allows node to start internal conflict with eachother if they dont like the T5/6 node rule that there stuck under atm it seem the only option is to basicly buy a neighbouring node off to war dec them for you

The game tries to reduce the chaos caused by players who normally don't cooperate with each-other.
Players willing to cooperate will have advantage over rebels and soloers.
They will exile non-cooperative players into the ocean

unknown

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HeetCrusher

Hopefully the economy is going to work. There needs to be scarce resources that only larger nodes have access to. This will make smaller nodes needing to advance to gain access. This works well in other games. Let's say to build the largest fastest ship in the game requires max level engineering and you have to be max level node for that. Or to have BIS gear armory needs to be in max node this will lead to conflict from surrounding nodes.

Tyranthraxus

Fiddlez wrote: »

Well I don't think it's just those 5. The ZOI is not allied territory. All of those nodes have reason. Plus if they think there's too many of one kind? Hard to say with out actually playing Alpha

It's the Metropolises that will exert the world's Zones of Influence. They've let us know that there will only be 5 of them/server at any one time, so it stands to figure that - once all the Metropolises come into being, the world will be limited to only 5 ZOI's.

Raven016

Tyranthraxus wrote: »

Fiddlez wrote: »

Well I don't think it's just those 5. The ZOI is not allied territory. All of those nodes have reason. Plus if they think there's too many of one kind? Hard to say with out actually playing Alpha

It's the Metropolises that will exert the world's Zones of Influence. They've let us know that there will only be 5 of them/server at any one time, so it stands to figure that - once all the Metropolises come into being, the world will be limited to only 5 ZOI's.

I was hoping the last node stream will talk about such things too and show an updated node simulation too.

Aszkalon

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

As a solo player i cannot wait to sit on the sidelines with a bag of popcorn watching the drama unfold haha

If you have Zero Problem with your own Node probably going down and a possible Home you might have rented being destroyed : sure, do just that. 😁

Maybe there is something dark awakening inside me, but i think an Opportunistic Nature calls to me.

When i see People attacking a City (Siege) - and i am neither Part of the Attackers or the Defenders ... ...

... ... what would be more profitable for me ?

Help the Attackers sack and destroy the City ? Or help the Defenders keeping it standing ?

Decisions Decisions, what to do ?

Kilion

Raven016 wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

daveywavey wrote: »

Raven016 wrote: »

Another thought I have is that the 'intended part' does not guarantee that players will like it.
Will we test node dynamic in alpha?
Will alpha 2 play style be relevant and reflect what players at release want?

The intent is that Alpha-2 will eventually be feature-complete so we'll be able to test everything together. So, we'll be testing everything to do with nodes along the way.

We probably won't be able to test time, though.
When will the game release if we actually have 60-day lockouts for Node Sieges?

I think Alpha 2 will last more than one year. Sieges could happen fast on lower level nodes too if the game put's some pressure onto players.
I'm not sure I want such a pressure.

Tyranthraxus wrote: »

Xeeg wrote: »

Another part of this is question is that if you already have a bunch of ZOIs set up, and you only kill 1, then it will reform as itself again because the other ZOIs are already set up.

Dygz wrote: »

It won’t really “reform” the same way.
Most likely the new Metro will have a different Node Type and have a different Racial dominance.
We can also expect a different layout and different Social Orgs and Religions having prominence.

To my understanding, the arrangement of the Node-types is permanent; A Scientific Node will always be Scientific, even if it was successfully sieged/destroyed. Was bummed when this was revealed/elaborated, but it was explained as being necessary, in order to ensure the world-balance and number of Node types.

Maybe to prevent players to create metas? So freedom and metas are bad.

Probably because there are lore themes and story arc connections to be drawn from the node locations. e.g. A divine node will probably have some sort of connection to nearby points of interests that have some sort of significance for the gods (e.g. a body of water said to be the tears of a god who shed them over the pain of all the mortals killed during the Others rebellion [this is not a real piece of lore, just an example]).
Then you need dungeons near the node that have some connection to that lore that can be unlocked with the Nodes progression and so on.

Specializing the Nodes in that way has a number of benefits:
- Less clutter in the surrounding areas. It is not necessary to put tons of backdrops for every possible Node story arc into the area to the point where people might wonder how there could be so many (85) holy sites on Verra.
- Unique, focused stories surrounding a special node that wont feel overly generic as they can only be triggered in a specific area and are embedded in the POIs of that particular area. Basically the thinking of players should be "Where else but here could this have happened" which also helps create a feeling of greater impact.
- It focusses area design without limiting variation too much: One of the core reasons why Ashes will feel more "alive" and "interesting" to a lot of people will be that there is limited access to content. But that is not happening without complete randomness. Just like players, game designer probably like to look at a landscape and see the potential in it. A mountain side probably won't make people imagine big commercial cities but a big monestary or a fortress overlooking the plains below/guarding a pass. So during the design process it helps to have some points on the map that prompts ideas about what is around these spots

But I am no digital game designer, I just write TTRPGs so maybe I am overly focused on the story as the primary backdrop element. Though I hope the process for Ashes is somewhat similar when creating the world since the basic ideas stem from Pathfinder (story wise).

Aszkalon

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

As a solo player i cannot wait to sit on the sidelines with a bag of popcorn watching the drama unfold haha

Not even when Spoils of War are involved ? Are You sure you really want to sit everything out ?

I am confident you might not be able to sit on the sidelines when your own Node is involved. 😁

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