"Combat pets"

...keeps popping up within the AoC community since the recent interview that Steven gave.

At some point in L2 we all rolled around with combat wolves (the animal that captivates me most in reality) for the dps they added.

We shared xp with our pet wolves (which we had to quest, lv up and gear for) but all in all they made progress faster. And they were EVERYWHERE.

I disagree with combat pets, they steal focus from all classes and they make everybody a summoner.
They are visual clutter.
They are not a new gameplay experience. They are mandatory meta annoyance.

Will it impact negatively animal husbabdry sooo much? I dont think so.

I say we give our feedback.

Why do you like combat pets?
Why dont you like them?
What are the benefits to the game?
What negatives do they bring?
What parameters would make then acceptable IF you dont like them.

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Comments

Songcaller

I dunno, a raven or crow would fit in well with a necromancer

Caww

Neurath wrote: »

I dunno, a raven or crow would fit in well with a necromancer

skelly please...

Ruerik

Plenty of versions of necromancers that don't rely on corpses walking around. Curses, hexes, etc.

Songcaller

Caww wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

I dunno, a raven or crow would fit in well with a necromancer

skelly please...

Okay, a skelly raven or a skelly crow would fit in well with a necromancer.

Aszkalon

Sweatycup wrote: »

Necromancers already have pets

Summons* ;->

And Yes, indeed. Those are the only one's i mean. There would be no Point in being a Necromancer, if one IS* a Summoner-Class : but can not even use his own Necromancer-Summons.

Combat Pet with for example the "Unseen Order"-Skins would be nice - but in the Case of Doubt i am confident the normal Summons of a Necromancer are already enough.

OOOOOOOOFFFFFFFFFFFF imagine a huge Siege Battle for a City/Node and +50% of all Players present are Summoners with 3 Summons. 😅 . 😅 . 😅

And THEN everyone wants to whip out their "Combat-Pets" as well - adding to the Models. The Polygons. To everything that is burdening the Graphic Cards and Hardware-Drivers.

I get a Headache just from thinking about it. Maybe for Siege Battles Combat-Pets should REALLY be disabled.

I mean, all Players already "have" Allies, right ?
Many Allies - versus many Enemies.

For what would they even need Combat-Pets on top of that, then ? 🤔 Summoners would already fill the Battle Field with more Figures/Beings than the Players themselves are providing with their own Characters.

Caww

Neurath wrote: »

Caww wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

I dunno, a raven or crow would fit in well with a necromancer

skelly please...

Okay, a skelly raven or a skelly crow would fit in well with a necromancer.

even better.... or maybe a zombie-style raven or crow, partially decayed and alarmingly unsettling...

Zahie

I like the idea of having a combat pet just simply because of the idea of of being able to immersively RP that I have an animal companion without being a summoner and whitout it being a stupid and pointless cosmetic pet. Stupid from an RP perspective in that way that it will only stay still and do nothing while the player are being attacked.
I'm more concerned about the cosmetic pets being visual clutters.

I hope Steven manage to balance the combat pets well so that players with or without a combat pet are equally strong. Having a combat pet should not be an advantage over not having one but a fun and different way to play your class, so it should not be totally pointless either.

George_Black

Zahie wrote: »

I like the idea of having a combat pet just simply because of the idea of of being able to immersively RP that I have an animal companion without being a summoner and whitout it being a stupid and pointless cosmetic pet. Stupid from an RP perspective in that way that it will only stay still and do nothing while the player are being attacked.
I'm more concerned about the cosmetic pets being visual clutters.

I hope Steven manage to balance the combat pets well so that players with or without a combat pet are equally strong. Having a combat pet should not be an advantage over not having one but a fun and different way to play your class, so it should not be totally pointless either.

Would you be willing to lose half your xp gained while the pet is summoned for a small amount of help?
That's how balance is achieved.

Zahie

George_Black wrote: »

Zahie wrote: »

I like the idea of having a combat pet just simply because of the idea of of being able to immersively RP that I have an animal companion without being a summoner and whitout it being a stupid and pointless cosmetic pet. Stupid from an RP perspective in that way that it will only stay still and do nothing while the player are being attacked.
I'm more concerned about the cosmetic pets being visual clutters.

I hope Steven manage to balance the combat pets well so that players with or without a combat pet are equally strong. Having a combat pet should not be an advantage over not having one but a fun and different way to play your class, so it should not be totally pointless either.

Would you be willing to lose half your xp gained while the pet is summoned for a small amount of help?
That's how balance is achieved.

Has it been confirmed that we have to sacrifice xp while having the combat pet summoned?
I only know what can be read at the wiki and from that I understood that we sacrifice a bit of our power since combat pets wont increase our power like the summoners class pets does.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Combat_pets

Combat pets generally have a horizontal progression, not a vertical one. Unlike Summoner summons, combat pets do not increase a player's power, but instead require a sacrifice from the player.[2][3][1][4][5]
It’s important to note, combat pets are primarily horizontal in nature. Where as class pets (like summoner) are a very vertical mechanic.[3] – Steven Sharif

Azherae

Vaknar wrote: »

Interesting discussion to read through!

I think you ask some excellent questions in your OP -

George_Black wrote: »

Why do you like combat pets?
Why don't you like them?
What are the benefits to the game?
What negatives do they bring?

These questions are great thought-starters for constructive feedback and conversations! However, I do think including "[So far only negative views] in your title might skew or affect the kind of conversations that happen here. Though, this may have been the intent

Another question I might add to this thread is - How would you like to see Combat Pets implemented into Ashes of Creation? Or "In what ways have you seen combat pets utilized well in other MMORPGs?

If we must have them, I'd prefer that you pay a cost in Cooldowns and Basic Attack speed.

Then, at least, it has a flow to it, and people are less likely to call them in tougher or more dangerous situations where they need those things, but can use them for versatility or fun in less 'bleeding edge' content.

Plus, I consider that overall easiest to balance 'per pet', even if different classes get to do different things with them overall. Almost every other 'cost', I feel like people will work around somehow.

Aszkalon

Caww wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

Caww wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

I dunno, a raven or crow would fit in well with a necromancer

skelly please...

Okay, a skelly raven or a skelly crow would fit in well with a necromancer.

even better.... or maybe a zombie-style raven or crow, partially decayed and alarmingly unsettling...

I personally think both Options are quite good. So the ones who want to have a "fully Skelly" Combat Pet, can have that.

The ones who want more something like a decaying Animal or so, should be able to have such a Combat Pet, as well.

Ravens are a good Choice - as they are often connected with Death.

Balrog21

Not a fan at all....wish they would ditch the idea and free up devs, art team, etc for other things.

Freemeta

it's useful for developing the summoner archetype.

Dezemi

This has been a part of the plans for AoC since the beginning, and I remain positive to the feature. :] As a MMORPG (emphasis on RPG), not offering pets outside the summoner class would be a poor choice, imo. Especially since IP is trying to appeal to the RP communities.

If someone wants to play a hunter fantasy with a wolf, a rogue with a pet viper or a mage with a feline familiar, then why would anyone want to take that from them? Let them trade personal power to be accompanied by a pet, and those who dont like it can just go by themselves. Imo, this is a great system. Worrying about balance at the current state feels unnecessary, since if they can't balance this setup then there is no way they'll be able to balance all classes to an acceptable standard either (which is way worse, imo.)

In my experience, pets do nothing but roll over dead instantly in bigger PvP scenarios, so I would not worry at all about that. And if people have an issue with pets in smaller PvP scenarios..... well, as always in PvP; "get gud" or get a pet of your own. *Shrug* There will always be some kind of variable for people to be angry about in PvP.... x]

And when it comes to PvE.... Well, soulbeast in GW2 speaks for itself! Pets in GW2 roll over dead very easily in more difficult OW (open world) scenarios (except for the engineer mech......), so most rangers (the pet class) usually roll without a pet in OW since it is just faster that way! X]

Cravenos

Read many responses and i must say i agree with them that pets should stay on the summoners side and not to every class .

PherPhur

Combat pets in the way everyone here is thinking about them is bad design

Combat pets in the sense of how WoW did it where it was like a little Pokémon minigame.. spectacular! Though I wish it was more fleshed out.

Aszkalon

Freemeta wrote: »

it's useful for developing the summoner archetype.

Gimme my Bony Skelly-Raven or my zombified little Pet Dog, lol. 😁 . 😅

Ruerik

I think, the only way combat pets should be acceptable in a game that is as pvp heavy as ashes, is if the player must actually command the pet, the pet has no intelligence of its own to do things.

It may follow you around out of combat, but when the fighting starts.
You must tell it to attack a target
You must tell it to use each skill when you want it to use that particular skill.
If its ranged, you must tell it where to stand, if its melee it will follow the target you send it at.
It doesn't move out of aoe on its own, you must do that.

Make the pet part of the player experience.

The entire reason I don't like combat pets, because if they give the player some benefit during combat for no effort, then it reduces the players worth. And I mean that very simply by the pet did some percentage of the total, the player did some percentage of the total. The player did not do it all.

Aszkalon

Taerrik wrote: »

Notice me Taerrik-Senpai !! (lol)

The only Reason i like for Example Hunter Pets in WoW - is the fact that i don't need to split my whole Focus/Conscience between my Character and my Pet.

I openly admit that.

Now " i " have chronical Concentration Disorder since Birth -> but what for Excuses have Players who don't have that ? Ha ha ha hah !

What other Excuse aside from being lazy would they have ? Welp ! Since i want to at least "test-play" a Necromancer ingame,

i am willing to beat my Brain (metaphorically) - to whip myself trying to do it decently. If it's to much for me, i just stick to things like Rogue or other Class i can use directly to assist my Friends, as always.

However i am confident i wouldn't like to use a Combat Pet, if it has more than Two or maybe THREE own Abilities i would need to combine with my own Focus on my Characters Abilities,

while Combat Pet and my own Character would be clearly seperated from each other. By like a LOT of Meters. I imagine my Combat Pet to be like a Tank shielding me from Mobs or Players i want to nuke/shoot from a Distance - and so i don't have to take them on myself in Melee.

If i can't prevent that - i might as well skip the Combat Pet completely.

Ruerik

Except, @Aszkalon

It should not be about splitting your focus.
If a class uses a combat pet, then these skills should be baked in to the class identity.

A combat pet shouldn't be an additional boost, but rather, part of what you do.

IF you are a ranger, shooting, your combat pet should have skills you would use to slow or root your target. You stand at range and pew pew and send pet to attack. When enemy is moving towards you, you order pet to slow/snare the enemy so you can back away more.

If enemy turn to slice up your pet, you tell it to run away, making the enemy waste time following pet, getting further from you while you continue to pew pew. Sure the pet is taking damage but your not.

Balance the class around the existence and use of the pet skills if the class is to have pets.

Otherwise its just a passive boost and doesnt even have a point to be there in the first place. Could just boost the player by that amount and not have the pet.

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