Balancing guilds with solo play

I have seen a lot about the exciting guild incentives and mechanics planned for AOC which I am all for. My only concern is that this may require an environment whereby you HAVE to align yourself with a guild to be relevant in the game. Personally as a solo player I'm of the opinion that joining a guild should always be out of choice, not necessity. In which ways do you think solo play can be balanced so that solo players/small teams of friends can still choose this path?

One idea I propose is that solo players could carry out as questline to become a mercenary. Mercenaries would be neutral alignment but could be hired by guilds to assist in seiges and bosses etc. This way solo players are not gated away from content but likewise are still able to enjoy soloplay when they choose to.

Just as guilds can acquire reputation, so could mercenaries. At higher reputation levels your price as a mercanary would automatically increase. Reputation would be based on successful "missions"(hires) and feedback from guild seniors (e.g. a simple rating system).

Just as there will be a leaderboard for guilds, there could be s leaderboard for mercenaries. Perhaps this system would be tied to military nodes.

What are your thoughts?

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Ludullu

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

I don't agree with this at all.

I can choose going working out at my empty gym in my luxury highrise i live in. But i rather go workout being around other's at a public gym. Not that i talk to anyone there as i mind my business. But i like being around other's. I do the same in ESO PvP, i play solo and don't really play with anyone or talk to anyone, but i like playing in an environment around real people. I will however partake/help out in taking a keep/castle, but once that's done i'm back running around by myself.

You can still enjoy MMO's while being an introvert. Not everyone plays PvP MMO's to be a zergling.

Lol, I'm literally the opposite. Hate going to a gym with people in it, but completely fine with playing in or even leading a guild of 200+ people.

TheDarkSorcerer

NiKr wrote: »

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

I don't agree with this at all.

I can choose going working out at my empty gym in my luxury highrise i live in. But i rather go workout being around other's at a public gym. Not that i talk to anyone there as i mind my business. But i like being around other's. I do the same in ESO PvP, i play solo and don't really play with anyone or talk to anyone, but i like playing in an environment around real people. I will however partake/help out in taking a keep/castle, but once that's done i'm back running around by myself.

You can still enjoy MMO's while being an introvert. Not everyone plays PvP MMO's to be a zergling.

Lol, I'm literally the opposite. Hate going to a gym with people in it, but completely fine with playing in or even leading a guild of 200+ people.

We are all different. Personally i don't really have the time to play on the weekdays like that. I work 9-9pm most days. So the two hours of fun i have after that, i rather not involve myself in what a guild is doing, or the drama or politics they have. I just want to do whatever i enjoy in the game, if that makes sense

unknown

This content has been removed.

bloodprophet

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

NiKr wrote: »

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

I don't agree with this at all.

I can choose going working out at my empty gym in my luxury highrise i live in. But i rather go workout being around other's at a public gym. Not that i talk to anyone there as i mind my business. But i like being around other's. I do the same in ESO PvP, i play solo and don't really play with anyone or talk to anyone, but i like playing in an environment around real people. I will however partake/help out in taking a keep/castle, but once that's done i'm back running around by myself.

You can still enjoy MMO's while being an introvert. Not everyone plays PvP MMO's to be a zergling.

Lol, I'm literally the opposite. Hate going to a gym with people in it, but completely fine with playing in or even leading a guild of 200+ people.

We are all different. Personally i don't really have the time to play on the weekdays like that. I work 9-9pm most days. So the two hours of fun i have after that, i rather not involve myself in what a guild is doing, or the drama or politics they have. I just want to do whatever i enjoy in the game, if that makes sense

I also have limited time on certain days but I find it way easier to be in a guild that understands this and is there when I log in. I prefer group play dungeons and so forth. Is easier and faster to get a group when in a fair size guild to go do stuff
Nothing better then logging in and guildies are blind inviting you to go do stuff.

Craiken

PenguinPaladin wrote: »

...after a certain amount of time these massive guilds who already fought over "world firsts" will want to break up, into smaller more specialized guilds. Allowing the more casual players who have already been leveling a specialized guild have a "head start"

I suppose we'll have to wait and see what happens. I'll be surprised if the people chasing world firsts choose to sacrifice stat bonuses for a larger guild. I would expect them to use whatever structure provides the best stats. But maybe there will be some clever in-game bonuses for larger guilds.

Dolyem

Ferryman

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

Karthos wrote: »

"I don't want to be social in a game that at it's central core requires the players to interact with others and be social".

I've never understood what people with this mentality even see when they look at an MMO, what makes them want to play a game that basically all but REQUIRES you to get involved with other people, group up, be social, rely on other players, ect. There's other games that will cater to this style of game play much better, we don't need to water down games to accommodate these confused people.

Maybe you just don't want to play MMORPGs.... This is like going to a Mexican Restaurant and saying "I don't like Mexican food, please make me a hamburger".

I hear Bethesda is releasing Elder Scrolls 6 soon-ish, and I'm sure you can probably play Skyrim on your Apple Watch here soon.

I don't agree with this at all.

I have the option to workout at my empty gym in my luxury highrise i live in, that has everything a gym-rat needs. But i rather choose to workout being around people at a public gym. Not that i talk to anyone there, as i mind my business. But i like being around people. I do the same in ESO PvP, i play solo and don't really play with anyone or talk to anyone, but i like playing in an environment around real people.

You can still enjoy MMO's while being an introvert. Not everyone is a social butterfly or enjoy daily guild drama or politics. So i'm all for smaller casual guilds.

It is true that people can enjoy MMORPGs even playing mainly solo. Also if a player just gathers and sells the resources, and does nothing else, he/she is already interacting with other players via depleting resource spots, progressing nodes, facing owPvP, buying items and gear, and selling stuff to other players. Therefore, this introvert gatherer's actions has impact to the game world and other players, without need to group up or talk to anyone.

akabear

I think the market popularity will be limited if it is orientated towards group play only.

Whilst that precludes players that want to play a game with limited interaction and/or solo, I would imagine it also precludes players that are time-constrained.

Sure, I would like to play a good few hours in groups when able, but I would also like the capacity to jump in for a few min here and there if that is all I had and still have the capability to do something engaging.

derp

SOOO, it's been a while since I last jumped on here and it seems this thread has gone a little crazy since I last posted.

Having read through the thread, it seems that quite a few of you have misinterpreted what I was saying, and assumed my perspective is that of a "Guild hating, AOC hating, change everything for me" player... this is untrue.

Let me be clear - I am not against guild content, nor do I expect solo players to benefit from guild perks (obviously), nor do I want AOC to completely change it's design direction...

I think too many people see things in black and white - you know it's ok to like LOTS of what a game has to offer, whilst still having an opinion of my own, and some ideas that I thought some players might like. After all, I'm on the forums... if I can't make suggestions in here, where can I?

My idea was simply to allow solo players, or small groups of players to "opt in" to larger scale content through a mercenary system, without having to feel "bound" to a specific guild/guild duties/guild timetable. I understand that joining a casual guild might not come with the responsibilities, so yes, maybe this is the solution.. though I also thought the idea of being a "mercenary for hire" in itself was pretty cool in all honesty.

Also - someone mentioned that if this was implemented you'd have to be part of a mercenary guild to be found? If you remember in my original post, I mentioned the possibility of a mercenary high score, where successful hires (depending on the challenge of the content) would give you points that would rank you up. The goal of this was to provide both a reward, but also a meaningful way for players to be "head hunted" and selected - perhaps this could even be displayed within nodes to show the best mercenaries in each node, alongside a "mercenaries online now" list (you'd have to flag yourself as "available for work" or something to appear on the board).

Finally, it's worth mentioning that this system wouldn't have to gate out guild players. Players in guilds could in theory also become a mercenary themselves to help another guild if the other guild was doing content they wanted to participate in (drama alert).

My main concern/dislike when playing in guilds is that I have to "timetable my gaming" around content that suits the owners of the guilds, rather than just playing the content I want, when I want. In all honesty, i don't want to have to compromise my fun to play with randoms - often in different time zones with different schedules. I'd rather play the game with my friends. And no, this doesn't mean I don't want to play the game or that I hate MMORPGs... hence, I'm on AOC forums right now and have already prepurchased my key 3 years ago.

My idea was just one solution to enable players to participate in larger scale content when there's somebody already running it, without having to jump through the hoops of joining a guild and waiting for "your guilds turn at the content".

Anyway, ramble over :P

Understood if nobody likes the idea, just thought I'd throw it out there and see what people thought!

Thanks everyone for your feedback on the idea and would love to hear the opinions of a few other "non guildy" players to see what their thoughts are and if there are any alternatives that might entice you

derp

Vaknar wrote: »

PenguinPaladin wrote: »

I think you can do all of this without a system coded in place. Make your own solo "guild". Become reputable on your own. Take contracts from larger guilds... Demand your own pay based on what you know you are worth.... i mean, can you make a system better than just talking to and being familiar with those around you?

I was actually thinking the same as this after reading the OP. I think your idea is very interesting, @derp ! As @PenguinPaladin said, even if this feature weren't in Ashes of Creation, I believe there will be systems in place that will make this a possible gameplay style of your choice!

Much appreciated buddy

RazThemun

"small teams of friends"

They create a guild. That is no longer solo play....

Sauronplay

derp wrote: »

I have seen a lot about the exciting guild incentives and mechanics planned for AOC which I am all for. My only concern is that this may require an environment whereby you HAVE to align yourself with a guild to be relevant in the game. Personally as a solo player I'm of the opinion that joining a guild should always be out of choice, not necessity. In which ways do you think solo play can be balanced so that solo players/small teams of friends can still choose this path?

One idea I propose is that solo players could carry out as questline to become a mercenary. Mercenaries would be neutral alignment but could be hired by guilds to assist in seiges and bosses etc. This way solo players are not gated away from content but likewise are still able to enjoy soloplay when they choose to.

Just as guilds can acquire reputation, so could mercenaries. At higher reputation levels your price as a mercanary would automatically increase. Reputation would be based on successful "missions"(hires) and feedback from guild seniors (e.g. a simple rating system).

Just as there will be a leaderboard for guilds, there could be s leaderboard for mercenaries. Perhaps this system would be tied to military nodes.

What are your thoughts?

Derp, friend, your idea is great, Ashes of Creation should be included in the game, the game itself cannot focus on guilds, there is a large percentage of players who play solo, including me. The comments that are in favor of a game only focused on guilds make no sense.

Mag7spy

Sauronplay wrote: »

derp wrote: »

I have seen a lot about the exciting guild incentives and mechanics planned for AOC which I am all for. My only concern is that this may require an environment whereby you HAVE to align yourself with a guild to be relevant in the game. Personally as a solo player I'm of the opinion that joining a guild should always be out of choice, not necessity. In which ways do you think solo play can be balanced so that solo players/small teams of friends can still choose this path?

One idea I propose is that solo players could carry out as questline to become a mercenary. Mercenaries would be neutral alignment but could be hired by guilds to assist in seiges and bosses etc. This way solo players are not gated away from content but likewise are still able to enjoy soloplay when they choose to.

Just as guilds can acquire reputation, so could mercenaries. At higher reputation levels your price as a mercanary would automatically increase. Reputation would be based on successful "missions"(hires) and feedback from guild seniors (e.g. a simple rating system).

Just as there will be a leaderboard for guilds, there could be s leaderboard for mercenaries. Perhaps this system would be tied to military nodes.

What are your thoughts?

Derp, friend, your idea is great, Ashes of Creation should be included in the game, the game itself cannot focus on guilds, there is a large percentage of players who play solo, including me. The comments that are in favor of a game only focused on guilds make no sense.

You are missing the plot of AoC, it isn't meant to be a solo mmorpg and the game is designed to be played in groups. It doesn't mean there is 0 solo content but if you are trying to actual progress and do the good content it will be around groups.

Last live stream literarily shows they auto throw you in a group/raid in event area content.

If you are so introverted you dislike in ever being in a group, what are you doing on a mmorpg.

Depraved

Sauronplay wrote: »

derp wrote: »

I have seen a lot about the exciting guild incentives and mechanics planned for AOC which I am all for. My only concern is that this may require an environment whereby you HAVE to align yourself with a guild to be relevant in the game. Personally as a solo player I'm of the opinion that joining a guild should always be out of choice, not necessity. In which ways do you think solo play can be balanced so that solo players/small teams of friends can still choose this path?

One idea I propose is that solo players could carry out as questline to become a mercenary. Mercenaries would be neutral alignment but could be hired by guilds to assist in seiges and bosses etc. This way solo players are not gated away from content but likewise are still able to enjoy soloplay when they choose to.

Just as guilds can acquire reputation, so could mercenaries. At higher reputation levels your price as a mercanary would automatically increase. Reputation would be based on successful "missions"(hires) and feedback from guild seniors (e.g. a simple rating system).

Just as there will be a leaderboard for guilds, there could be s leaderboard for mercenaries. Perhaps this system would be tied to military nodes.

What are your thoughts?

Derp, friend, your idea is great, Ashes of Creation should be included in the game, the game itself cannot focus on guilds, there is a large percentage of players who play solo, including me. The comments that are in favor of a game only focused on guilds make no sense.

so you (and him) want the benefits of being in a guild, without the responsibilities of being in a guild?
to participate in a siege or a node war a guild has to go out of their way and get the declaration scroll, then be the first to declare. that will probably be a guild effort and its unlikely that the same guild will be able to siege every single that there is a siege period, since you have to win accessing the siege. guild members could be doing something else but instead, they are helping with the declaration scroll. mercenaries will pretty much be able to siege every time there is a siege period, without all the hassle and responsibility of being in a guild. this is unfair and promotes solo play. sieges are large group activities. want to join a siege? join a guild.

also, why would i take a mercenary over one of my guildies, especially if i have more than the 250 required? thats only for small guilds..which will probably not take you anyways and rather ally with another guild. did you forget about guild passives? you would either have to join their guild anyways (or node), which you cant do once war has been declared, or they would have to ally your 1 member guild with no passives. great idea!

Kilion

Sauronplay wrote: »

derp wrote: »

I have seen a lot about the exciting guild incentives and mechanics planned for AOC which I am all for. My only concern is that this may require an environment whereby you HAVE to align yourself with a guild to be relevant in the game. Personally as a solo player I'm of the opinion that joining a guild should always be out of choice, not necessity. In which ways do you think solo play can be balanced so that solo players/small teams of friends can still choose this path?

One idea I propose is that solo players could carry out as questline to become a mercenary. Mercenaries would be neutral alignment but could be hired by guilds to assist in seiges and bosses etc. This way solo players are not gated away from content but likewise are still able to enjoy soloplay when they choose to.

Just as guilds can acquire reputation, so could mercenaries. At higher reputation levels your price as a mercanary would automatically increase. Reputation would be based on successful "missions"(hires) and feedback from guild seniors (e.g. a simple rating system).

Just as there will be a leaderboard for guilds, there could be s leaderboard for mercenaries. Perhaps this system would be tied to military nodes.

What are your thoughts?

Derp, friend, your idea is great, Ashes of Creation should be included in the game, the game itself cannot focus on guilds, there is a large percentage of players who play solo, including me. The comments that are in favor of a game only focused on guilds make no sense.

I'm afraid, you are missing the point of the ones who design this game. Steven is on record since 2018 emphasizing that the game is primarily being balanced and designed with group (=social) gameplay in mind. Doesn't mean solo gameplay is entirely impossible but more often than not you will run into obstacles you alone will not be able to master, which could even mean that a good number of POIs are not managable for you alone.

From my perspective it makes no sense to demand that the developer provides a solo game loop in a game they publicly designed for group gameplay (because if it is possible alone, its piss easy as a group). I think from all we have read so far there will be a lot of barriers in the way of solo players who refuse to join a guild and/or Node.

Let's take a look at the content we've seen on the livestreams:

From the sound of it the bandit event was scripted for player activity in the area. It is questionable for it to be designed for a solo run with an automatic "join group" feature on accepting the event objective. At least in those cases you will have to accept group gameplay to start and successfully finish the world event.
If you are an average player regarding the hours per week you are willing to put into the game freeholds will and should be out of your reach. Not because you are "bad" or anything but if the average player could easily attain a freehold, it would be a piece of piss for a 300 member guild making it a participation trophy, not a prestigious attainment.
Node citizenship is a requirement for buying houses, apartments or freeholds. This association would run counter to the solo gameplay idea I imagine.
Derp said it in the OP himself - he wants to play a "neutral" character who can align himself with any faction at any point. The thing is: If there are no significant advantages to group association, he wouldn't have (m)any groups to join in the first place. Additionally everyone is entering the world of Verra as a neutral, unaligned person anyways. You can make and break alliances at basically any time.

And yes, there are a lot of people who came to prefer solo gameplay in lobby type games like WoW, but Ashes obviously is not having these people their target player base. And the game can be successful without them stripping away the advantages of group gameplay to cater to solos.

Solvryn

Someone is a little excited for Summoner/Cleric.

Caww

There will most likely be PUG guilds choosing less desirable nodes and being inefficient but will have a very open policy for people to join, most solos can float in and out for some small benefit until the player gets serious about guild play aspects and joins a better organized one.

Alhem

Karthos wrote: »

I've never understood what people with this mentality even see when they look at an MMO, what makes them want to play a game that basically all but REQUIRES you to get involved with other people, group up, be social, rely on other players, ect. There's other games that will cater to this style of game play much better, we don't need to water down games to accommodate these confused people.

Please enlighten me. I've always favored MMOs but please give me your ideas for what games I should rather play?

Edit* when did the OP say anything about not interacting with other players? He suggested a system that would encourage so.

Depraved

Alhem wrote: »

Karthos wrote: »

I've never understood what people with this mentality even see when they look at an MMO, what makes them want to play a game that basically all but REQUIRES you to get involved with other people, group up, be social, rely on other players, ect. There's other games that will cater to this style of game play much better, we don't need to water down games to accommodate these confused people.

Please enlighten me. I've always favored MMOs but please give me your ideas for what games I should rather play?

Edit* when did the OP say anything about not interacting with other players? He suggested a system that would encourage so.

no. he suggested a system that avoids the responsibilities of being in a guild, while having the benefits. he could solo play all day long, without having to worry about leveling up a guild, helping get a declaration scroll, helping others with gears, and still be able to participate in wars every week, whereas a guild member who did all of the above wont be able to do so every time because someone could declare first.

not all guilds will be able to siege every time there is a siege, but the solo mercenaries will. so yes, it's a system that promotes not joining a guild if what you want is to siege.

ThamonRa

I think u guys got the guilds confused with Nodes.
Don't think there is a gold standard and you must play in a guild.
Or if you join a guild you are obligated to join them every time every minute.

U can probly sit in a tavern have a drink, chat up and find a group to do the dungeon with.

I am against solo play in MMO rpg's
Go play a single player game or just be stuck in gathering resources in a low level area.
(Just a opinion sorry to come on strong)
I'm not saying u should always be in a group, you could be tending your items at home or be a good citizen in your node. Build a fishing boat go fishing, IDK.

Guild is not perse a zerg.
And solo players should not be able to do dungeons or other content alone.
And I don't think guilds are a must to enjoy the game.
If you want to have massive PvP battles and be part of a organized (tactical) play (not zerg) then I guess u should be looking for a guild.
It's not only PvP or only PvE.
It's probly PvX,
The nodes are not guild owned, they can hire a guild or 2 to represents and defend them Extra. U think those farmers can't fight just couse they wanna do PvE?

All I can say is try elder scrolls online,
U can solo in that game.

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