Metropolis is Besieged destroyed, later it makes it back to Metropolis again, whats different?

Question's in the subject.

Wondering if dev team will have to scramble to make unique node for next development cycles?
is dynamic layout so that same plots will just have different buildings now? Will there be anything the same? Different?

I understand the cosmetic changes of race and that's so awesome, but I'm wondering more about the building layout. I know it'd be harder to implement, but it'd be really cool to see a different metropolis if one spawns in the same node a second time.

Respectfully,
Han

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Enigmatic Sage

The type of node could affect it (scientific, military, economic, divine).
Then the other things is essentially how the players contribute to and manage it via buildings, mayors, location etc.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Nodes

hanoldbuddy

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

The type of node could affect it (scientific, military, economic, divine).
Then the other things is essentially how the players contribute to and manage it via buildings, mayors etc

Ah thanks good points. I forgot the node type changes. That sounds good to me! This game has all the answers.

Enigmatic Sage

hanoldbuddy wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

The type of node could affect it (scientific, military, economic, divine).
Then the other things is essentially how the players contribute to and manage it via buildings, mayors etc

Ah thanks good points. I forgot the node type changes. That sounds good to me! This game has all the answers.

I added a link for the wiki on my previous post incase you want to skim through that but they also have videos on their YouTube channel as well if you're interested in that.

Location can also play a role. if the node is near the shore it will have access to the water and trade routes directly.

hanoldbuddy

Yeah I think the player buildings and node type will be enough to change its spirit so to speak.

Tyranthraxus

It should look entirely different, in its layout. In one of the earliest videos, they showed a spawn/respawn of a single city, and the streets and city-building plots were all different.

However, to my understanding, the Node Type remains the same. The map itself is balanced a certain way, as to always ensure X number of one type, X type of another type, and that certain types border certain other types. Yours truly would have preferred a different, more-random arrangement, but I get the need for it.

Veeshan

the building plots will most likly be different when it rebuilds aswell. it might have started out going full blacksmithing node so all weapon smithing and armorsmothing crafting benches but when it rebuilt it might be focused on something else entirely aswell maybe the mayors went shipbuilding approach and build building associated with that craft instead.
Since no node can do everything it means what it can do might change each time it is destroyed and rebuilt.

Veeshan

Tyranthraxus wrote: »

It should look entirely different, in its layout. In one of the earliest videos, they showed a spawn/respawn of a single city, and the streets and city-building plots were all different.

However, to my understanding, the Node Type remains the same. The map itself is balanced a certain way, as to always ensure X number of one type, X type of another type, and that certain types border certain other types. Yours truly would have preferred a different, more-random arrangement, but I get the need for it.

this highly likely wont be the case tbh i suspect each town will get a single layout for plots there building in the plots would be different to some degree based on mayor building option at the time.
However that being said u are highly unlikely to see metropolis node that been destroyed to make it back to metropolist in a timely manner.
There will likely need to be 3 metro nodes destroyed in the same area before u see a previous metro node become a metro again, reason for this is when 1 gets destroyed its it only likly gonna make it back to R3 again unless somone destroys a R4+ node in the area again which it will then make it to R4 potentialy then you be waiting for a R5+ node to be destroyed before it able to get bumped back up again. Reason for this is a R6 node gets destroyed one of the 2 R5 nodes it vassaled with is likly gonna hit R6 first which then free up a R5 node for the R4 nodes to fight for and so on. There probaly be some outside the vassal node also competing for the new rank position too,
So i dont think it be a huge issue tbh if all nodes only have 1 layout (aslong as every node doesnt have the same layout) since it be several months if not years before u see a destroyed node reach the same rank again outside of R3 nodes

Enigmatic Sage

@Veeshan not necessarily. If the node has multiple spots in the area to develop the lay out could change a bit to include things like a harbour for ships. If there are say 3 spots in the area and it picks spots 2 instead of spot 3 (near the shore) it could definitely be a bit different. I believe there will be some similarity across all the nodes but I believe there should be enough diversity across them for some relative uniqueness

I believe for simplicity the original post used the same node for a clearer sample control. But yes, the likelihood of it becoming a metropolis again before another node is pretty close to impossible.

Veeshan

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

@Veeshan not necessarily. If the node has multiple spots in the area to develop the lay out could change a bit to include things like a harbour for ships. If there are say 3 spots in the area and it picks spots 2 instead of spot 3 (near the shore) it could definitely be a bit different. I believe there will be some similarity across all the nodes but I believe there should be enough diversity across them for some relative uniqueness

I believe for simplicity the original post used the same node for a clearer sample control. But yes, the likelihood of it becoming a metropolis again before another node is pretty close to impossible.

if you gave nodes say 3 spots like u mention, doing so would make 3 times the work for very little gain since they would now need to do 3 layouts for every node inlcuding terrain for the node to sit on, so now you gone from 85 node layouts to 255 nodes layouts to design if they all had 3 location they could start in. Not worth the time investment tbh
Your better off spending more time perfecting a unique layout for every node terrain location and layout rather than giving each node 3 different spots/layouts. not to mention nodes are already relativly small area and needing to muiltipul spots reserved for potential node spot your taking up valuable realestate for other content. not to mention freehold location would probaly need to be changed to a degree too with muiltipul node spawn location.
Your looking at 5.5 square km for each node area.

Enigmatic Sage

Veeshan wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

@Veeshan not necessarily. If the node has multiple spots in the area to develop the lay out could change a bit to include things like a harbour for ships. If there are say 3 spots in the area and it picks spots 2 instead of spot 3 (near the shore) it could definitely be a bit different. I believe there will be some similarity across all the nodes but I believe there should be enough diversity across them for some relative uniqueness

I believe for simplicity the original post used the same node for a clearer sample control. But yes, the likelihood of it becoming a metropolis again before another node is pretty close to impossible.

if you gave nodes say 3 spots like u mention, doing so would make 3 times the work for very little gain since they would now need to do 3 layouts for every node inlcuding terrain for the node to sit on, so now you gone from 85 node layouts to 255 nodes layouts to design if they all had 3 location they could start in. Not worth the time investment tbh
Your better off spending more time perfecting a unique layout for every node terrain location and layout rather than giving each node 3 different spots/layouts. not to mention nodes are already relativly small area and needing to muiltipul spots reserved for potential node spot your taking up valuable realestate for other content. not to mention freehold location would probaly need to be changed to a degree too with muiltipul node spawn location.
Your looking at 5.5 square km for each node area.

Not 100% sure if each one has the option of exactly three spots for the node to development depending on size and location but the original plan (unless changed) was to have this as to why I mentioned if the node allows it that you could potentially have nodes with shipyards if developed at the specific location near the coast. They have node designs that allow for caravan routes (including boats) to traverse across the bodies of water to nodes that also developed shipyards through this. It creates a diverse world unique to the players choices and consequences.

The diversity across nodes wont be too unique but hopefully unique enough for lay out options depending on the players actions and contribution as mentioned. Having it like New World where all the civilisations look the same just positioned differently would make the ashes look poorly designed in my opinion and probably many others. Would not give much incentive to explore the world to see the other developed nodes We've only seen a few examples of specific nodes in videos and what not. Not a whole lot to go off currently unfortunately.

As mentioned the 4 different types of nodes, stages, things like shipyards and biome could affect some visual aspects and layout to some degree. How significant? too early to tell.

Raven016

hanoldbuddy wrote: »

I understand the cosmetic changes of race and that's so awesome, but I'm wondering more about the building layout. I know it'd be harder to implement, but it'd be really cool to see a different metropolis if one spawns in the same node a second time.

That could be the case for all node levels. Not only for metropolis.
But I am not sure a different layout is a good idea.
You live in a place and you might want to come back to it.
I will have memories which bind me to a location.
I do not want to see the place destroyed in a way it never comes back.
Also I do not want to see the same layout in a different city. It will feel weird.

daveywavey

Tyranthraxus wrote: »

It should look entirely different, in its layout. In one of the earliest videos, they showed a spawn/respawn of a single city, and the streets and city-building plots were all different.

However, to my understanding, the Node Type remains the same. The map itself is balanced a certain way, as to always ensure X number of one type, X type of another type, and that certain types border certain other types. Yours truly would have preferred a different, more-random arrangement, but I get the need for it.

Yeah, His Truly is correct. They've said that Node Types are static.

"Node types are predetermined and are the same across all servers.[3]

A node’s type is static. It does not change based on the node’s advancement or destruction.[3]
For example, if a level 4 Scientific Node is destroyed, it will become a Level 0 Scientific Node. It will never be any other Node Type other than a Scientific Node. The location of these Types relates to the influences of the area around the Node.[3] – Margaret Krohn"
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Node_types

Enigmatic Sage

daveywavey wrote: »

Tyranthraxus wrote: »

It should look entirely different, in its layout. In one of the earliest videos, they showed a spawn/respawn of a single city, and the streets and city-building plots were all different.

However, to my understanding, the Node Type remains the same. The map itself is balanced a certain way, as to always ensure X number of one type, X type of another type, and that certain types border certain other types. Yours truly would have preferred a different, more-random arrangement, but I get the need for it.

Yeah, His Truly is correct. They've said that Node Types are static.

"Node types are predetermined and are the same across all servers.[3]

A node’s type is static. It does not change based on the node’s advancement or destruction.[3]
For example, if a level 4 Scientific Node is destroyed, it will become a Level 0 Scientific Node. It will never be any other Node Type other than a Scientific Node. The location of these Types relates to the influences of the area around the Node.[3] – Margaret Krohn"
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Node_types

Oh really?
I thought it was supposed to be a clean/fresh tile after returning to 0.
Was this just because it's easier and time saving?
I definitely prefer the idea of potentially having the option to reset the tile type incase the node system diversity gets too boring on a server.

Tyranthraxus

Veeshan wrote: »

this highly likely wont be the case tbh i suspect each town will get a single layout for plots there building in the plots would be different to some degree based on mayor building option at the time....

@Veeshan Here's a link to a video they did a few years back, in which it shows cities re-generating on the same spot but with different build/street layouts, with the Node-layout generator:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYFKi4j-Zaw

The walls appear to be static, and some of the layouts are obviously more-similar than others - but especially in the later, colored parts of the video, there's some really neat footage of the different layouts that can occur.

Depraved

Veeshan wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

@Veeshan not necessarily. If the node has multiple spots in the area to develop the lay out could change a bit to include things like a harbour for ships. If there are say 3 spots in the area and it picks spots 2 instead of spot 3 (near the shore) it could definitely be a bit different. I believe there will be some similarity across all the nodes but I believe there should be enough diversity across them for some relative uniqueness

I believe for simplicity the original post used the same node for a clearer sample control. But yes, the likelihood of it becoming a metropolis again before another node is pretty close to impossible.

if you gave nodes say 3 spots like u mention, doing so would make 3 times the work for very little gain since they would now need to do 3 layouts for every node inlcuding terrain for the node to sit on, so now you gone from 85 node layouts to 255 nodes layouts to design if they all had 3 location they could start in. Not worth the time investment tbh
Your better off spending more time perfecting a unique layout for every node terrain location and layout rather than giving each node 3 different spots/layouts. not to mention nodes are already relativly small area and needing to muiltipul spots reserved for potential node spot your taking up valuable realestate for other content. not to mention freehold location would probaly need to be changed to a degree too with muiltipul node spawn location.
Your looking at 5.5 square km for each node area.

you can do all that automatically instead of manually with the power of programming ;3

Enigmatic Sage

I was thinking about something while reviewing some free hold information.

Having the nodes static could technically encourage players to migrate to specific nodes based on freehold goals of said individuals and guilds considering the limitations of journeyman crafting vs grand master as one example or even access to different caravan routes globally for economic reasons based on the players objectives when playing ashes.

But the downside is they could also emigrate leaving some nodes and biomes more neglected and sparsely populated due to a potential imbalance of meta chasers.

In some ways you could create dense scientific node areas to potentially create more immersive world building thematically.

IE:
there's a bunch of scientific nodes in a specific biome, the world feels more advanced
-or-
this part of the world is more religiously densely populated, militarily densely populated etc.

I suppose in some ways the head start servers could create plan something like this more easily if they wanted to in advance or even just large guild organisations.

I'm just hoping the world isn't too static in relation to meta node layout positioning.

Spif

We don't have much information on what will happen when a node hits 0 and gets rebuilt/leveled. So far, it looks like the node type won't change. I assume that the racial style could change, depending on what races are leveling the node. The street layout could change slightly, depending on building placement.

A nice easter egg would be for a ruin with a statue commemorating "Old Farmton - destroyed circa 1456 AD"

McShave

It would take so much time for a metropolis to become another metropolis after being seiged, like 1.5 to 2 years considering there is the destruction time, leveling time, and seiging other nodes so that you can level up to.

Like one of my favorite sayings, "a person cannot step in the same river twice, for the person is not the same and the river is not the same." A lot can change in an MMO over 2 years.

Spif

There's a good chance that a destroyed metro will never make it higher than level 4, with the way vassalship works to limit node leveling. At least 2 other nearby nodes would have to be destroyed first I'd think. Probably more

Veeshan

Spif wrote: »

There's a good chance that a destroyed metro will never make it higher than level 4, with the way vassalship works to limit node leveling. At least 2 other nearby nodes would have to be destroyed first I'd think. Probably more

yep 3-5 R5+ (one being R6) modes will probaly need to get destroyed to be able to get back to R6

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