Flashfirez23 wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Is there a game you reference in what would be a good example for what you want? I understand what you are saying questing in mmorpgs have always been bad but there are reasons for that as well. You aren't going to get a god of war experience in a mmorpg. There’s no reason why MMO questing can’t be just as good as single player games. You can do questing like the Witcher or BG3. The problem is MMOs tend to make way too many quests. And put quantity over quality. It’s a design decision. I think RuneScape, Star Wars, GW2, and FF14 do questing better than most mmos however even some of these mmos I’ve listed add in unnecessary chore style quests that ruin their overall questing and leveling experience.
Mag7spy wrote: » Is there a game you reference in what would be a good example for what you want? I understand what you are saying questing in mmorpgs have always been bad but there are reasons for that as well. You aren't going to get a god of war experience in a mmorpg.
Mag7spy wrote: » Flashfirez23 wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Is there a game you reference in what would be a good example for what you want? I understand what you are saying questing in mmorpgs have always been bad but there are reasons for that as well. You aren't going to get a god of war experience in a mmorpg. There’s no reason why MMO questing can’t be just as good as single player games. You can do questing like the Witcher or BG3. The problem is MMOs tend to make way too many quests. And put quantity over quality. It’s a design decision. I think RuneScape, Star Wars, GW2, and FF14 do questing better than most mmos however even some of these mmos I’ve listed add in unnecessary chore style quests that ruin their overall questing and leveling experience. So you want questing to be the same level as Witcher or BG3? Where do you expect them to get the budget to detail questing to the level of BG3 with all the different interactions. Part of the strength I feel with BG is the characters you make and how it effects the story and such and giving you unique options. A lot of elements I can't see being in AoC as their focus will be more on the interactions between players. Witcher I have not played so maybe someone else can explain it. Though I'm assuming none of the cut scenes add to the questing in witcher 3?
Flashfirez23 wrote: » [ Mag7spy wrote: » Flashfirez23 wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Is there a game you reference in what would be a good example for what you want? I understand what you are saying questing in mmorpgs have always been bad but there are reasons for that as well. You aren't going to get a god of war experience in a mmorpg. There’s no reason why MMO questing can’t be just as good as single player games. You can do questing like the Witcher or BG3. The problem is MMOs tend to make way too many quests. And put quantity over quality. It’s a design decision. I think RuneScape, Star Wars, GW2, and FF14 do questing better than most mmos however even some of these mmos I’ve listed add in unnecessary chore style quests that ruin their overall questing and leveling experience. So you want questing to be the same level as Witcher or BG3? Where do you expect them to get the budget to detail questing to the level of BG3 with all the different interactions. Part of the strength I feel with BG is the characters you make and how it effects the story and such and giving you unique options. A lot of elements I can't see being in AoC as their focus will be more on the interactions between players. Witcher I have not played so maybe someone else can explain it. Though I'm assuming none of the cut scenes add to the questing in witcher 3? I am not saying Ashes needs the same production value as those games. But, they can atleast take some inspiration from these games. It really comes down to the quest writing and just trying to create an immersive narrative. It doesn’t take much money to do that.
Raven016 wrote: » To feel like an adventure, it must have good story. Like a good adventure book. But in this case good RPG game. So the one who writes the story is important and then how that is presented in the game.
Mag7spy wrote: » Raven016 wrote: » To feel like an adventure, it must have good story. Like a good adventure book. But in this case good RPG game. So the one who writes the story is important and then how that is presented in the game. mmorpg stories are not as personal so a lot of aspects to making a good story and connect to someone are going to be not doable. The story is between players more so, we aren't in some world like The god of war. WoW had it easy since it already had a story the connect players while making them foot solders in the original.
Enigmatic Sage wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Raven016 wrote: » To feel like an adventure, it must have good story. Like a good adventure book. But in this case good RPG game. So the one who writes the story is important and then how that is presented in the game. mmorpg stories are not as personal so a lot of aspects to making a good story and connect to someone are going to be not doable. The story is between players more so, we aren't in some world like The god of war. WoW had it easy since it already had a story the connect players while making them foot solders in the original. huh?? the game has lore and informational quests to discover the world through various systems from potentially archetypes, augments/religions. Probably wont see much in terms of cinematics or RP scenes in the open world content due to the "PvP" aspect but there could be goals for instanced content or safe zones to have some to whatever degree.
Mag7spy wrote: » Enigmatic Sage wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Raven016 wrote: » To feel like an adventure, it must have good story. Like a good adventure book. But in this case good RPG game. So the one who writes the story is important and then how that is presented in the game. mmorpg stories are not as personal so a lot of aspects to making a good story and connect to someone are going to be not doable. The story is between players more so, we aren't in some world like The god of war. WoW had it easy since it already had a story the connect players while making them foot solders in the original. huh?? the game has lore and informational quests to discover the world through various systems from potentially archetypes, augments/religions. Probably wont see much in terms of cinematics or RP scenes in the open world content due to the "PvP" aspect but there could be goals for instanced content or safe zones to have some to whatever degree. Idk why you are saying Huh, compare any mmorpg to GoW, The last of Us, Mass effect, Witcher, Baldur's gate, Dragon age, Cyberpunk. Mmorpgs don't hit anywhere near any of them the games are designed differently. Your personal story isn't shaping the world, you aren't as connected do to the things single player games can do where mmorpgs generally can not. The change in AoC is more in terms of the overall server population not your personal story. AoC is a new IP players will not connect with lore the same way to something they love already. Simply having lore and informational quest is no where even close to a story in single player games. Most people spam R, F or whatever the skip button is for a reason. Where in single player games people are more into the story and not skipping everything.
Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Enigmatic Sage wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Raven016 wrote: » To feel like an adventure, it must have good story. Like a good adventure book. But in this case good RPG game. So the one who writes the story is important and then how that is presented in the game. mmorpg stories are not as personal so a lot of aspects to making a good story and connect to someone are going to be not doable. The story is between players more so, we aren't in some world like The god of war. WoW had it easy since it already had a story the connect players while making them foot solders in the original. huh?? the game has lore and informational quests to discover the world through various systems from potentially archetypes, augments/religions. Probably wont see much in terms of cinematics or RP scenes in the open world content due to the "PvP" aspect but there could be goals for instanced content or safe zones to have some to whatever degree. Idk why you are saying Huh, compare any mmorpg to GoW, The last of Us, Mass effect, Witcher, Baldur's gate, Dragon age, Cyberpunk. Mmorpgs don't hit anywhere near any of them the games are designed differently. Your personal story isn't shaping the world, you aren't as connected do to the things single player games can do where mmorpgs generally can not. The change in AoC is more in terms of the overall server population not your personal story. AoC is a new IP players will not connect with lore the same way to something they love already. Simply having lore and informational quest is no where even close to a story in single player games. Most people spam R, F or whatever the skip button is for a reason. Where in single player games people are more into the story and not skipping everything. Please tell me that the reason you believe this is true is because you mean "Players have to get into huge groups and make meaningful effort, it's not personal, it's cooperative" and not 'MMORPGs never tell stories with the same amount of depth in world shaping'... Do you personally know anyone who skips the story in MMOs but doesn't brush off most of the interactions in a single player one, besides yourself? "Immersion is a two way street" or something like that...
Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Enigmatic Sage wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Raven016 wrote: » To feel like an adventure, it must have good story. Like a good adventure book. But in this case good RPG game. So the one who writes the story is important and then how that is presented in the game. mmorpg stories are not as personal so a lot of aspects to making a good story and connect to someone are going to be not doable. The story is between players more so, we aren't in some world like The god of war. WoW had it easy since it already had a story the connect players while making them foot solders in the original. huh?? the game has lore and informational quests to discover the world through various systems from potentially archetypes, augments/religions. Probably wont see much in terms of cinematics or RP scenes in the open world content due to the "PvP" aspect but there could be goals for instanced content or safe zones to have some to whatever degree. Idk why you are saying Huh, compare any mmorpg to GoW, The last of Us, Mass effect, Witcher, Baldur's gate, Dragon age, Cyberpunk. Mmorpgs don't hit anywhere near any of them the games are designed differently. Your personal story isn't shaping the world, you aren't as connected do to the things single player games can do where mmorpgs generally can not. The change in AoC is more in terms of the overall server population not your personal story. AoC is a new IP players will not connect with lore the same way to something they love already. Simply having lore and informational quest is no where even close to a story in single player games. Most people spam R, F or whatever the skip button is for a reason. Where in single player games people are more into the story and not skipping everything. Please tell me that the reason you believe this is true is because you mean "Players have to get into huge groups and make meaningful effort, it's not personal, it's cooperative" and not 'MMORPGs never tell stories with the same amount of depth in world shaping'... Do you personally know anyone who skips the story in MMOs but doesn't brush off most of the interactions in a single player one, besides yourself? "Immersion is a two way street" or something like that... Feel free to tell me what mmorpgs people are comparing to story wise are up there with some of the greats people talk about. And why they consider those mmorpgs on the same level of The last of us, god of war, mass effect, etc.
Enigmatic Sage wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Enigmatic Sage wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Raven016 wrote: » To feel like an adventure, it must have good story. Like a good adventure book. But in this case good RPG game. So the one who writes the story is important and then how that is presented in the game. mmorpg stories are not as personal so a lot of aspects to making a good story and connect to someone are going to be not doable. The story is between players more so, we aren't in some world like The god of war. WoW had it easy since it already had a story the connect players while making them foot solders in the original. huh?? the game has lore and informational quests to discover the world through various systems from potentially archetypes, augments/religions. Probably wont see much in terms of cinematics or RP scenes in the open world content due to the "PvP" aspect but there could be goals for instanced content or safe zones to have some to whatever degree. Idk why you are saying Huh, compare any mmorpg to GoW, The last of Us, Mass effect, Witcher, Baldur's gate, Dragon age, Cyberpunk. Mmorpgs don't hit anywhere near any of them the games are designed differently. Your personal story isn't shaping the world, you aren't as connected do to the things single player games can do where mmorpgs generally can not. The change in AoC is more in terms of the overall server population not your personal story. AoC is a new IP players will not connect with lore the same way to something they love already. Simply having lore and informational quest is no where even close to a story in single player games. Most people spam R, F or whatever the skip button is for a reason. Where in single player games people are more into the story and not skipping everything. Campaigns, quests and immersion. You only get out what you put in. What you're talking about is linear campaign design vs discovery design. Reminds me of how people don't read quests and then complain the story sucks because it wasn't spoon fed to them at a remedial level. The whole point of the lore is to build a foundation for the story, provide background information so the game can carry that forward. No different than how it was told in wc1, wc2, wc3 and brought into 3D immersion as wow. But you know what those games came with? a book that explained the lore of the factions and heroes. The only updates you got was from the briefing prior to the next level which is how campaign driven quests function.
Mag7spy wrote: » Enigmatic Sage wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Enigmatic Sage wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Raven016 wrote: » To feel like an adventure, it must have good story. Like a good adventure book. But in this case good RPG game. So the one who writes the story is important and then how that is presented in the game. mmorpg stories are not as personal so a lot of aspects to making a good story and connect to someone are going to be not doable. The story is between players more so, we aren't in some world like The god of war. WoW had it easy since it already had a story the connect players while making them foot solders in the original. huh?? the game has lore and informational quests to discover the world through various systems from potentially archetypes, augments/religions. Probably wont see much in terms of cinematics or RP scenes in the open world content due to the "PvP" aspect but there could be goals for instanced content or safe zones to have some to whatever degree. Idk why you are saying Huh, compare any mmorpg to GoW, The last of Us, Mass effect, Witcher, Baldur's gate, Dragon age, Cyberpunk. Mmorpgs don't hit anywhere near any of them the games are designed differently. Your personal story isn't shaping the world, you aren't as connected do to the things single player games can do where mmorpgs generally can not. The change in AoC is more in terms of the overall server population not your personal story. AoC is a new IP players will not connect with lore the same way to something they love already. Simply having lore and informational quest is no where even close to a story in single player games. Most people spam R, F or whatever the skip button is for a reason. Where in single player games people are more into the story and not skipping everything. Campaigns, quests and immersion. You only get out what you put in. What you're talking about is linear campaign design vs discovery design. Reminds me of how people don't read quests and then complain the story sucks because it wasn't spoon fed to them at a remedial level. The whole point of the lore is to build a foundation for the story, provide background information so the game can carry that forward. No different than how it was told in wc1, wc2, wc3 and brought into 3D immersion as wow. But you know what those games came with? a book that explained the lore of the factions and heroes. The only updates you got was from the briefing prior to the next level which is how campaign driven quests function. You thinking reading dialogue = immersion that equals single player games with story shows you really don't play other games. Please give me an example of some mmorpgs that equal to single player games with their story and points on how their strengths are similar. *Hint I'm not talking about just reading text, so that better not be the extent of your example.
Azherae wrote: » Do you personally know anyone who skips the story in MMOs but doesn't brush off most of the interactions in a single player one, besides yourself?
Enigmatic Sage wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Enigmatic Sage wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Enigmatic Sage wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Raven016 wrote: » To feel like an adventure, it must have good story. Like a good adventure book. But in this case good RPG game. So the one who writes the story is important and then how that is presented in the game. mmorpg stories are not as personal so a lot of aspects to making a good story and connect to someone are going to be not doable. The story is between players more so, we aren't in some world like The god of war. WoW had it easy since it already had a story the connect players while making them foot solders in the original. huh?? the game has lore and informational quests to discover the world through various systems from potentially archetypes, augments/religions. Probably wont see much in terms of cinematics or RP scenes in the open world content due to the "PvP" aspect but there could be goals for instanced content or safe zones to have some to whatever degree. Idk why you are saying Huh, compare any mmorpg to GoW, The last of Us, Mass effect, Witcher, Baldur's gate, Dragon age, Cyberpunk. Mmorpgs don't hit anywhere near any of them the games are designed differently. Your personal story isn't shaping the world, you aren't as connected do to the things single player games can do where mmorpgs generally can not. The change in AoC is more in terms of the overall server population not your personal story. AoC is a new IP players will not connect with lore the same way to something they love already. Simply having lore and informational quest is no where even close to a story in single player games. Most people spam R, F or whatever the skip button is for a reason. Where in single player games people are more into the story and not skipping everything. Campaigns, quests and immersion. You only get out what you put in. What you're talking about is linear campaign design vs discovery design. Reminds me of how people don't read quests and then complain the story sucks because it wasn't spoon fed to them at a remedial level. The whole point of the lore is to build a foundation for the story, provide background information so the game can carry that forward. No different than how it was told in wc1, wc2, wc3 and brought into 3D immersion as wow. But you know what those games came with? a book that explained the lore of the factions and heroes. The only updates you got was from the briefing prior to the next level which is how campaign driven quests function. You thinking reading dialogue = immersion that equals single player games with story shows you really don't play other games. Please give me an example of some mmorpgs that equal to single player games with their story and points on how their strengths are similar. *Hint I'm not talking about just reading text, so that better not be the extent of your example. have fun
NiKr wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Do you personally know anyone who skips the story in MMOs but doesn't brush off most of the interactions in a single player one, besides yourself? I do To me the mmo immersion gets ruined when "YOU ARE THE ONLY HERO THAT CAN SAVE US", but there's literally fucking thousands of "you" running around doing the same quest.
Mag7spy wrote: » Enigmatic Sage wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Enigmatic Sage wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Enigmatic Sage wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Raven016 wrote: » To feel like an adventure, it must have good story. Like a good adventure book. But in this case good RPG game. So the one who writes the story is important and then how that is presented in the game. mmorpg stories are not as personal so a lot of aspects to making a good story and connect to someone are going to be not doable. The story is between players more so, we aren't in some world like The god of war. WoW had it easy since it already had a story the connect players while making them foot solders in the original. huh?? the game has lore and informational quests to discover the world through various systems from potentially archetypes, augments/religions. Probably wont see much in terms of cinematics or RP scenes in the open world content due to the "PvP" aspect but there could be goals for instanced content or safe zones to have some to whatever degree. Idk why you are saying Huh, compare any mmorpg to GoW, The last of Us, Mass effect, Witcher, Baldur's gate, Dragon age, Cyberpunk. Mmorpgs don't hit anywhere near any of them the games are designed differently. Your personal story isn't shaping the world, you aren't as connected do to the things single player games can do where mmorpgs generally can not. The change in AoC is more in terms of the overall server population not your personal story. AoC is a new IP players will not connect with lore the same way to something they love already. Simply having lore and informational quest is no where even close to a story in single player games. Most people spam R, F or whatever the skip button is for a reason. Where in single player games people are more into the story and not skipping everything. Campaigns, quests and immersion. You only get out what you put in. What you're talking about is linear campaign design vs discovery design. Reminds me of how people don't read quests and then complain the story sucks because it wasn't spoon fed to them at a remedial level. The whole point of the lore is to build a foundation for the story, provide background information so the game can carry that forward. No different than how it was told in wc1, wc2, wc3 and brought into 3D immersion as wow. But you know what those games came with? a book that explained the lore of the factions and heroes. The only updates you got was from the briefing prior to the next level which is how campaign driven quests function. You thinking reading dialogue = immersion that equals single player games with story shows you really don't play other games. Please give me an example of some mmorpgs that equal to single player games with their story and points on how their strengths are similar. *Hint I'm not talking about just reading text, so that better not be the extent of your example. have fun Pretty much what I thought you don't' play multiple genre of games and have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. Actual joke you are trying to equal reading text as quest and story in games and not understanding the levels to it when it becomes a big deal for mmorpgs to have some voice acting as their major point.
Azherae wrote: » But if you're gonna skip Ashes story too, then...
