A case of Kaelar wooden toy Soldiers and the magical yellow Fighter hammer.

My conceen is that the Devs have encountered a problem with caravans being used to transport mats from region to region and deter players from just loading their bags and avoiding the caravan pvp risk.

The cargo we saw today is part of the transported caravan goods.

The original idea was that players must transport goods from one region to the next to make a profit.
To which players said "why risk using caravans? Might as well carry bags".
Steven said there will be other reasons to do so.
Today we saw those reasons.
To sell toy soldiers to NPCs. Aren't we sending heroes back to Vera?
There are no kids here so we dont need to sell toys to NPCs.
I mean since people are strict with the lore and insist that due to the lore a Fighter must summon giant yellow magic hammers because fighters in vera (that has no kids but has toy soldiers) because Fighters are a bit magical.

I say let's go back to the origonal plan of having to carry materials with caravans and players can loot useful materials (not npc gameplay toy soldiers) to craft or sell. Social gameplay, that holds together pvp pve crafting gathering exploration etc etc.
Not npc vendor gameplay and bound currencies.
Also, to combat rmt we need account activity tracking with red flags, not making content NPC centered.

Work out the logistics Devs. Find a way to force material transport via caravans.
Only RPers will be interested in running caravans for the NPCs gold payments.

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Depraved

George_Black wrote: »

Liniker wrote: »

Rewatch the livestream.

Steven mentioned you can transport both commodities and resources, the focus today was commodities, thats why it was shown, but you still can spawn caravans for all sorts of goods, you can farm fish, wood, metal, load your caravan and take them away for profit to sell to players, if you get attacked, those can be lost/looted, it didn't change we just got extra info and a more in depth system.

Hope they keep the magic hammer for fighters, looks great.

My concern is that we can still carry mats from region to region without the caravans and that commodities are used to intice players, which they wont.

if you carry them without the caravans, you get less rewards

lower the risk, lower the reward. increase the risk, increase the reward.

also why is that a oncern?

also, caravan runs are highly social activities and there is large scale pvp associated with them. they will create wars, even if we use commodities.

Ludullu

Neurath wrote: »

Yeah, The 3 or 4 glints are separate in the inventory but thousands of monster certificates would have been much worse. You'd have no room for anything else if monster certs had remained.

But see, this is the funny thing. Let's say you're grinding a specific location for a specific mat drop. You're probably killing a couple different mobs, if that. They could potentially have the same cert, if they were from the same kind/family/type of a mob, but even if they're different - that's still probably 1-3 certs +mats.

But with glints we have 6 damn slots taken up by it. And those slots will be taken up no matter how many mobs you fight (well, given the luck of dropping all 6 kinds that is, if they are separate).

Yes, you'd get more kinds of certs if you went on a thinly-but-widely spread genocide, but how often does that happen in practice though?

Songcaller

NiKr wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

Yeah, The 3 or 4 glints are separate in the inventory but thousands of monster certificates would have been much worse. You'd have no room for anything else if monster certs had remained.

But see, this is the funny thing. Let's say you're grinding a specific location for a specific mat drop. You're probably killing a couple different mobs, if that. They could potentially have the same cert, if they were from the same kind/family/type of a mob, but even if they're different - that's still probably 1-3 certs +mats.

But with glints we have 6 damn slots taken up by it. And those slots will be taken up no matter how many mobs you fight (well, given the luck of dropping all 6 kinds that is, if they are separate).

Yes, you'd get more kinds of certs if you went on a thinly-but-widely spread genocide, but how often does that happen in practice though?

I've asked for the glints to be turned into tokens like WoW rather than be in the inventory. I'm not sure how many types of glints will happen but I've considered Bronze, Silver, Gold and Platinum or Basic, Mid, Epic and Legendary.

Ludullu

Neurath wrote: »

I've asked for the glints to be turned into tokens like WoW rather than be in the inventory. I'm not sure how many types of glints will happen but I've considered Bronze, Silver, Gold and Platinum or Basic, Mid, Epic and Legendary.

Common, uncommon, rare, heroic, epic, legendary.

Songcaller

Damn it. That means there's 6 types of mobs...I hoped for Regular Mobs, Elite Mobs, Heroic Mobs, Epic Mobs and Legendary Mobs. I really won't be grinding/faming common and uncommon mobs for glint lol. Only if a quest forces me to kill these mobs if I must.

Ludullu

Neurath wrote: »

Damn it. That means there's 6 types of mobs...I hoped for Regular Mobs, Elite Mobs, Heroic Mobs, Epic Mobs and Legendary Mobs. I really won't be grinding/faming common and uncommon mobs for glint lol. Only if a quest forces me to kill these mobs if I must.

This is another thing that I simply expect to have a "range of chances" rather than a "range of enemies".

In other words, you can get lucky and drop a legendary glint from your very first mob, or you gotta grind super hard mobs but only keep getting commons, cause your luck is shit.

Cause forcing people to do the thing you mentioned would be a yet another stupid decision. Mobs will be mostly farmed for mats, so if glint is completely separate and can't be exchanged into each other - that means that you have to do what you mentioned you don't want to do.

And I see no good gameplay reason to have this kind of design.

edit: and if it can be exchanged, then mobs just drop appropriate rarity of glint and you auto-exchange it during purchases.

Songcaller

okay then, back to the other thread. I agree with your ideation. However, I also kind of don't. If I'm farming legendary world bosses I would prefer to get legendary glint. I would hate to get common glint from a World Boss for example...

Azherae

Well, we have two options, polarizing as always.

Either we sit on the side that trusts Intrepid will keep all their promises and make everything work no matter how much instinct/gut tells us otherwise...

Or, at this point, we assume this entire thing is a mess for the usual reasons.

I guess there's the middle ground of 'refuse to care until we have more data'. I support this thread in the interest of more data, because I can't muster the faith to be on the 'trust Intrepid' side for this one. I'm making an effort to not end up on the 'entire thing is a mess' side.

I hate every part of this design, but it technically still fits within the broad net of 'things the original statements about the game could mean', so I'll leave it to George to tank through this time.

Anyway that was all preamble to buffer my answer, NiKr.

It means someone thought we needed to move closer to BDO, for their systems to work. This does not surprise me because, on paper, their systems never worked, they're all over the place. They are making an effort to create cohesion through this system. All we can do is decide if we like it or not.

Ludullu

Neurath wrote: »

okay then, back to the other thread. I agree with your ideation. However, I also kind of don't. If I'm farming legendary world bosses I would prefer to get legendary glint. I would hate to get common glint from a World Boss for example...

Chances

Obviously a legendary boss would have a way higher chance to drop a legendary glint

Also, I'm reaaaaaal fucking curious how in the hell do glints get shared in party/raid loot. Is it the same as random drops?

Cause to me this kinda feels like a sure way to force master looting (or however you call "only one person gets the loot") into guilds/parties. Cause it's way easier to control caravan movement when you have all the caravan currency on one person (or several designated people).

Depraved

Neurath wrote: »

Damn it. That means there's 6 types of mobs...I hoped for Regular Mobs, Elite Mobs, Heroic Mobs, Epic Mobs and Legendary Mobs. I really won't be grinding/faming common and uncommon mobs for glint lol. Only if a quest forces me to kill these mobs if I must.

or any mob can drop any type of glint based on a % chance and rarity.

Songcaller

They replaced certificates so i think glints just drop for each person like the old certificates...

Depraved

Azherae wrote: »

Well, we have two options, polarizing as always.

Either we sit on the side that trusts Intrepid will keep all their promises and make everything work no matter how much instinct/gut tells us otherwise...

Or, at this point, we assume this entire thing is a mess for the usual reasons.

I guess there's the middle ground of 'refuse to care until we have more data'. I support this thread in the interest of more data, because I can't muster the faith to be on the 'trust Intrepid' side for this one. I'm making an effort to not end up on the 'entire thing is a mess' side.

I hate every part of this design, but it technically still fits within the broad net of 'things the original statements about the game could mean', so I'll leave it to George to tank through this time.

Anyway that was all preamble to buffer my answer, NiKr.

It means someone thought we needed to move closer to BDO, for their systems to work. This does not surprise me because, on paper, their systems never worked, they're all over the place. They are making an effort to create cohesion through this system. All we can do is decide if we like it or not.

why is the instinct/gut of people who dont know a single design pattern and who dont even have all the information about a game is an indication of the success of a game?_?

that seems like emotion is taking over for no reason. there isnt any facts or strategies involved.

i dont mean you. i mean people in general

Azherae

Depraved wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

Well, we have two options, polarizing as always.

Either we sit on the side that trusts Intrepid will keep all their promises and make everything work no matter how much instinct/gut tells us otherwise...

Or, at this point, we assume this entire thing is a mess for the usual reasons.

I guess there's the middle ground of 'refuse to care until we have more data'. I support this thread in the interest of more data, because I can't muster the faith to be on the 'trust Intrepid' side for this one. I'm making an effort to not end up on the 'entire thing is a mess' side.

I hate every part of this design, but it technically still fits within the broad net of 'things the original statements about the game could mean', so I'll leave it to George to tank through this time.

Anyway that was all preamble to buffer my answer, NiKr.

It means someone thought we needed to move closer to BDO, for their systems to work. This does not surprise me because, on paper, their systems never worked, they're all over the place. They are making an effort to create cohesion through this system. All we can do is decide if we like it or not.

why is the instinct/gut of people who dont know a single design pattern and who dont even have all the information about a game is an indication of the success of a game?_?

that seems like emotion is taking over for no reason. there isnt any facts or strategies involved.

i dont mean you. i mean people in general

And until we have some, our options are the usual conundrum that Intrepid puts us in.

"We would like your feedback on something."
"Oh ok, but wait, we don't know your plans for that something, actually..."
"Just tell us what you think."

That's what's happening. Can't fault it. What else can we give them other than emotions?

Ludullu

Azherae wrote: »

That's what's happening. Can't fault it. What else can we give them other than emotions?

Yep, pretty much this. They asked for feedback, so we, the nerds that we are (sitting on a forum of a non-existent game), are giving it to them.

And the only feedback I can make right now is based on the tiniest shreds of info I can see in those videos. But then when videos are full of holes and/or invisible GM cheats - it's reaaaal fucking hard to give proper feedback.

They didn't have pvp because they wanted feedback on glint and coms. Glint right now looks like utter shite and we also got ZERO CLUE how it even works. So we can only extrapolate from what we saw and/or make up complete random shit (as I usually do).

And commodities are their own can of worms that people have talked at length about already.

Songcaller

5 hours ago from what time mate?

Also, I always just speak my mind. I'm impressed the devs put up with my ideation half the time. You should have seen my Manic Phase before I was sectioned lol.

Ludullu

Neurath wrote: »

5 hours ago from what time mate?

https://www.reddit.com/r/AshesofCreation/comments/17kvle2/ashes_of_creation_alpha_two_caravan_preview/

Azherae

NiKr wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

That's what's happening. Can't fault it. What else can we give them other than emotions?

Yep, pretty much this. They asked for feedback, so we, the nerds that we are (sitting on a forum of a non-existent game), are giving it to them.

And the only feedback I can make right now is based on the tiniest shreds of info I can see in those videos. But then when videos are full of holes and/or invisible GM cheats - it's reaaaal fucking hard to give proper feedback.

They didn't have pvp because they wanted feedback on glint and coms. Glint right now looks like utter shite and we also got ZERO CLUE how it even works. So we can only extrapolate from what we saw and/or make up complete random shit (as I usually do).

And commodities are their own can of worms that people have talked at length about already.

In an older (now revived) post I said I'd be okay with it if they decoupled Caravans from Crafting.

I'm still pretty much okay with that.

I'm not okay with Glint, Glint being bound, 'Glint conversions to Commodities', etc. But this system sounds like it isn't for me in the first place. It's for RP travelers.

My part is to sneak or mule stuff from one node to another and hope that I can compete with MegaGuild #12's 8x Glint Value Multiplier. So I don't care about Caravans at all unless they're reworked to what I expected to begin with. Intrepid has chosen to make their design fit their older statements OR this was always the plan and we just didn't 'get it'. From what I know of ArcheAge, it was probably the second.

I'll hope AA2 evolves it in the other direction (but I doubt it).

Basically, this is probably what they always meant, as long as its balanced, we don't have to care, there will always be Mules to use for the thing we originally thought was going to be important.

Songcaller

NiKr wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

5 hours ago from what time mate?

https://www.reddit.com/r/AshesofCreation/comments/17kvle2/ashes_of_creation_alpha_two_caravan_preview/

Thank you

Ludullu

Azherae wrote: »

My part is to sneak or mule stuff from one node to another and hope that I can compete with MegaGuild #12's 8x Glint Value Multiplier. So I don't care about Caravans at all unless they're reworked to what I expected to begin with. Intrepid has chosen to make their design fit their older statements OR this was always the plan and we just didn't 'get it'. From what I know of ArcheAge, it was probably the second.

Yeah, that x8 was craaaazy. I do hope that kind of multiplier does not remain in the game and was just there "to show that there IS a multiplier".

Cause why in the fuck would I keep killing mobs if I can just travel a bit and literally x8 my gains instead. And if that x8 applies to the entire party (as Neura supposed) - that's fucking atrocious.

And considering that this is pure money printing, big guilds wouldn't even need to do anything but running caravans. Their entire gameplay will consist of farming a few mobs, buying coms and trucking that stuff all the way to the other side of the world.

Maybe that IS what Steven wants? Big guilds trucking big caravans, while the other big guilds try to prevent that? All while the small fries are toiling away in the mines to exchange their pity 3 rocks and 5 wood for the gold that those big guilds make from mobs. It would make sense, knowing him.

And in theeeeeory, it could work for all the casuals that are into farming 3 rocks and 5 wood per gameplay session and getting some gold for that.

I do still like this system overall, I just dislike the currently presented execution of it. Though I definitely see why you'd dislike it, considering your preferences.

Songcaller

It will only work if you kill mobs. That's why I said I wanted just one big run to x8 the run at once...rather than spending all day going back and forth. Hell, even the pve mobs the dudes killed on route in the video were dropping more Glint. If you chose a PvE route you'd have an endless supply of glint to go back and forth with unless PvP players got involved.

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