Neurath wrote: » Certificates were localised. You got fuck all for them locally and had to travel long distances to make max profit. You could gain local certificates along the route but localised prices would be lower. Glints: drop everywhere. Have different tiers and the lowest tier sells for 40 silver a time we've seen so far. That's locally. However, x8 local node is 3 gold 20 from the sale. Not sure how much you get from the other side of the map, however, every glint you achieve on route and locally has no gold value until exchange from commodities. This means that there is no downside to the system. localised prices don't really exist. Only huge profit from the multipliers even in a node next door.
Liniker wrote: » Neurath wrote: » Certificates were localised. You got fuck all for them locally and had to travel long distances to make max profit. You could gain local certificates along the route but localised prices would be lower. Glints: drop everywhere. Have different tiers and the lowest tier sells for 40 silver a time we've seen so far. That's locally. However, x8 local node is 3 gold 20 from the sale. Not sure how much you get from the other side of the map, however, every glint you achieve on route and locally has no gold value until exchange from commodities. This means that there is no downside to the system. localised prices don't really exist. Only huge profit from the multipliers even in a node next door. fair enough, indeed localized drops sound more interesting to me over globally available drops, I wasn't really thinking about that in my previous comment, I wonder why this change was made, we know mats/resources are localized, and caravans can transport those, and they did kept part of the localized thing with commodities, with each node having their own unique packs that you need to move around the world for profit, I wonder if it is to make things easier in the grinding part which would entice PKing a lot more, or simplified and reduce development load or something, by having just a single certificate currency across multiple loot tables, not sure how I feel about it, would need to test and see all the details first,
Nova_terra wrote: » I think stylistically the certs were cooler because they felt local to which beast/enemy you were fighting and added vibrancy to the world, but glint is just so so so much easier on inventory and it entirely removes one aspect of the puzzle which was mixing and matching certs for goods. Now you just get a normalized token which the devs can mess with in terms of drop rate etc (TBD from future streams/A2) and this makes it a wayyy easier lift for the devs to balance which nodes have which commodities since it's only a one sided puzzle now. Do I agree with it? I am not sure yet, I am going to re-watch the stream and listen to everyone on the forums before I make me decision but I do see some glaring holes in what was presented to us.
EnderlinH wrote: » Nova_terra wrote: » I think stylistically the certs were cooler because they felt local to which beast/enemy you were fighting and added vibrancy to the world, but glint is just so so so much easier on inventory and it entirely removes one aspect of the puzzle which was mixing and matching certs for goods. Now you just get a normalized token which the devs can mess with in terms of drop rate etc (TBD from future streams/A2) and this makes it a wayyy easier lift for the devs to balance which nodes have which commodities since it's only a one sided puzzle now. Do I agree with it? I am not sure yet, I am going to re-watch the stream and listen to everyone on the forums before I make me decision but I do see some glaring holes in what was presented to us. But you are confusing the glint (old Hunting Certificates) with materials, both drop from mobs, materials have a separate inventory, Glint never was supposed to have their own inventory
Nova_terra wrote: » EnderlinH wrote: » Nova_terra wrote: » I think stylistically the certs were cooler because they felt local to which beast/enemy you were fighting and added vibrancy to the world, but glint is just so so so much easier on inventory and it entirely removes one aspect of the puzzle which was mixing and matching certs for goods. Now you just get a normalized token which the devs can mess with in terms of drop rate etc (TBD from future streams/A2) and this makes it a wayyy easier lift for the devs to balance which nodes have which commodities since it's only a one sided puzzle now. Do I agree with it? I am not sure yet, I am going to re-watch the stream and listen to everyone on the forums before I make me decision but I do see some glaring holes in what was presented to us. But you are confusing the glint (old Hunting Certificates) with materials, both drop from mobs, materials have a separate inventory, Glint never was supposed to have their own inventory Then I have even less of a problem with it if the material drops aren't even affected. Only issue I see is the balance issue as it related to the economic impact of standardized glint.
Azherae wrote: » Nova_terra wrote: » EnderlinH wrote: » Nova_terra wrote: » I think stylistically the certs were cooler because they felt local to which beast/enemy you were fighting and added vibrancy to the world, but glint is just so so so much easier on inventory and it entirely removes one aspect of the puzzle which was mixing and matching certs for goods. Now you just get a normalized token which the devs can mess with in terms of drop rate etc (TBD from future streams/A2) and this makes it a wayyy easier lift for the devs to balance which nodes have which commodities since it's only a one sided puzzle now. Do I agree with it? I am not sure yet, I am going to re-watch the stream and listen to everyone on the forums before I make me decision but I do see some glaring holes in what was presented to us. But you are confusing the glint (old Hunting Certificates) with materials, both drop from mobs, materials have a separate inventory, Glint never was supposed to have their own inventory Then I have even less of a problem with it if the material drops aren't even affected. Only issue I see is the balance issue as it related to the economic impact of standardized glint. One thing this makes me think about a lot is... what exactly is the main Gold faucet 'pre-Glint'? Like, it must exist, right? We enter the world, there are no Village Nodes. We fight things and get Glint, but there's no Hunting Lodge yet (maybe there's just a random one at each Divine Gateway?) Then we get a village up, but Caravan trade requires a second village to trade WITH and it would be super unsafe and somewhat foolish to begin doing so, this early. Also, we had to have enough to buy the Caravan, probably? The economy has to be working already without any of this, and then suddenly it becomes 'ok turn on the BIG faucet now!' once enough Nodes are up... In the end I just don't want any faucet that is hard to predict or control, or that has the 'competitive FOMO' aspect that this probably has. If 'first Caravan' gets 8x, 'second Caravan' gets 7x, and so on down... We're getting into the weeds of PvP game design again...
Azherae wrote: » One thing this makes me think about a lot is... what exactly is the main Gold faucet 'pre-Glint'?
NiKr wrote: » Azherae wrote: » One thing this makes me think about a lot is... what exactly is the main Gold faucet 'pre-Glint'? Spawn locations gotta have lodges, cause village nodes supposedly take a few days to lvl up (I assume in the context of server's release as well, which means PACKED TO THE BRIM nodes). So you'll just be selling glint directly to them to get some pittance. But the really smart guilds will grind out those first few days w/o selling any glint and then travel between the starting nodes on their first caravans. If glint drops like mats and not goes to everyone in the party (jfc please let it drop like mats) then guilds will have designated Glinters, who will then fill up the very first caravans to then track them between nodes. Several days worth of hardcore grind multiplied by, potentially, x20+. Most likely run during the night to minimize the chance to get attacked. Even if it takes 2h to go from starting node to starting node, that's still a shitton of money in no time. And you'd be running a group of these caravans obviously, so it's just insane money within the first week. My god this system is trash.
Neurath wrote: » See the value in that 2 day head start now?
NiKr wrote: » Neurath wrote: » See the value in that 2 day head start now? I'd assume those will be mostly filled with everyone with those accesses, but yeah, jfc how does that work now?
NiKr wrote: » I guess Intrepid could have the same commodities across all starting nodes, but then the guilds' strategy just shifts to "go a few nodes over, so that you can get it to lvl3 through grind for sure" and then run their caravans from there to distant starting nodes. Either way, I think this strat is a money printer, unless smth changes.
Azherae wrote: » The WM will presumably stop you. The problem with the WM stopping you is that you are now racing to be the first to arrive before the WM stops you.
Azherae wrote: » Glint a.k.a. VerraCoin is better than the real world analogues because you can pay your taxes with it!
NiKr wrote: » Azherae wrote: » The WM will presumably stop you. The problem with the WM stopping you is that you are now racing to be the first to arrive before the WM stops you. Wouldn't it stopping you mean that it will try to stop starting nodes as well, cause they'd look effectively the same to the WM? And at that point what is even its purpose, if it stops the natural flow of gameplay. Or do you mean it would try to stop the commodity "abuse"? Azherae wrote: » Glint a.k.a. VerraCoin is better than the real world analogues because you can pay your taxes with it! VerraCoin to the mooooooon
Azherae wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Azherae wrote: » The WM will presumably stop you. The problem with the WM stopping you is that you are now racing to be the first to arrive before the WM stops you. Wouldn't it stopping you mean that it will try to stop starting nodes as well, cause they'd look effectively the same to the WM? And at that point what is even its purpose, if it stops the natural flow of gameplay. Or do you mean it would try to stop the commodity "abuse"? Azherae wrote: » Glint a.k.a. VerraCoin is better than the real world analogues because you can pay your taxes with it! VerraCoin to the mooooooon Let's at minimum assume the following. I hate assuming, but since the numbers are interchangeable, perhaps it is fair. There is some demand for Commodity A from Node A, in Node B. The reward is 8x the Gold for just selling it in Node A. When a Caravan of Commodity A is delivered, the demand goes down. After some period of time, the reward goes down too. It is 'some number less than 8x'. At some point it becomes 'not worth it to run the Caravan' (for some reason). The WM can easily 'turn off the faucet', so that the inflow of Gold to the overall economy is controlled. So yes, it stops what you are referring to as 'Commodity Abuse', until players relearn how exactly to 'abuse' it. The problem here is not that people can make Gold this way, the WM can easily control how much Gold you can gain by doing it. It was implied that you could even, instead of just selling the Commodity immediately, just put it in a warehouse and wait for the price to go back up. Just sit on the stock and refuse to share it until people are willing to pay you for your hard work of bringing it all over there. What are they gonna do, burn their own Node to the ground to get your Wine barrels?
Azherae wrote: » The WM can easily 'turn off the faucet', so that the inflow of Gold to the overall economy is controlled. So yes, it stops what you are referring to as 'Commodity Abuse', until players relearn how exactly to 'abuse' it. The problem here is not that people can make Gold this way, the WM can easily control how much Gold you can gain by doing it.
Neurath wrote: » I wouldn't stock pile any commodities with the limited Caravan Space. I can't imagine how many caravan runs a month a stockpile/backlog would take to shift let alone a 6 month stockpile/backlog.
NiKr wrote: » Azherae wrote: » The WM can easily 'turn off the faucet', so that the inflow of Gold to the overall economy is controlled. So yes, it stops what you are referring to as 'Commodity Abuse', until players relearn how exactly to 'abuse' it. The problem here is not that people can make Gold this way, the WM can easily control how much Gold you can gain by doing it. My first thought is "how fast is the check rate of the WM". If it's "instant", then yeah, this strat would probably not work out. But then I'd be reaaaal interested in how Intrepid foresees hour-long caravan runs that end up not multiplying the money at all, cause someone had just brought the same commodity there and tanked the price. I guess that's the risk/reward of this system (on top of pvp), but then we come back to the "is it fun though" that your group had problems with. And I'd definitely agree that prepping a big glint pile, physically going to another node to check what it needs, trucking the caravan for over an hour - all just to learn that I was late and that my coms are now relatively worthless would feel like utter shite And if the check rate is not instantaneous then you just line up your caravans right outside the node and bring them all in at the same time. EZ
