Intrepid just introduced their first P2W item!

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

... I suppose they can provide an advantage because players wont know how upgraded they are to some degree ...

Exactly. They mentioned that you can target specific components, the driver or even the horses(?). Information on the customization would bring a clear advantage regarding what to target first.

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

... the restriction of the skin to be used on certain tier levels.

Which is weird in itself. Why would you ever use anything but your max tier. I'd be OK with only low tier caravans having "costumes" though. Then there would be no disguising at max level.

AidanKD wrote: »

...In theory if there were in-game earnable skins then it would remove the argument of it being strictly "p2w" since it would be achievable by anyone...

That would negate all the work they put into the visualizations of the default caravans though. I really like what they did there. But....I wouldn't use the default with the nice component visualizations, if a skin wouldn't give away information on cargo, components and buffs. I'd use a bulky skin with on horse on a fast, low armor, two horse caravan and a fast and light looking skin on a high armor, slow wagon.

Showing the components and buffs below the name tag would be a solution. Would be immersion breaking and confusing with five components and five skill slots plus buffs from other sources though. Also I think, that's not the way they want to go.

George_Black

Meh... how do you survive in the real world?

It takes only a few seconds to see how many people escort the damn thing, how fast it moves, how much dmg it takes.

You shouldnt accuse IS that they have p2w based on how challenged you feel by something as silly as this.

Nothing of value was said in the OP and I doubt anyone else will say.

George_Black wrote: »

Meh... how do you survive in the real world?

It takes only a few seconds to see how many people escort the damn thing, how fast it moves, how much dmg it takes.

You shouldnt accuse IS that they have p2w based on how challenged you feel by something as silly as this.

Nothing of value was said in the OP and I doubt anyone else will say.

Meh...how do you survive in the real world, if you're so thin skinned. It only takes a second to to gather information on your enemy. As we're talking about PvP here, every second counts. If you deny that, you clearly have never played a PvP game. That's the point, hiding info matters. You shouldn't accuse me of being challenged, while being clearly triggered by the p-word. If you think, your comment added anything of value to the thread....well....what can I say.

I know it's not the biggest deal in the world, but I do think I have given my reasoning, why I think, that if caravan skins hide the amount of cargo, the kind of components and their tier, the skills/buffs and/or the amount of horses they will give you an advantage in game. We don't know if that matters, or how big it is but it makes the skin not purely cosmetic anymore.

I am concerned about that, because I don't want any P2W in AoC and I trust Steven's word on that. It is a short and slippery slope from a caravan skin, that hides some infos to a BDO gilly suit. Purely cosmetic, right?

Mag7spy

People pulling at hairs to try to find ways to make things a big deal, what is new lmao. Only argument you can make is how valuable it is to attack based on whatever indicators and they can have things show in ui information if they want, if it isn't clear enough.

Azherae

Mag7spy wrote: »

People pulling at hairs to try to find ways to make things a big deal, what is new lmao. Only argument you can make is how valuable it is to attack based on whatever indicators and they can have things show in ui information if they want, if it isn't clear enough.

Just to be clear... you don't think that argument is important?

Just saving OP some time, in case they 'haven't met you yet'.

I don't think it's a big deal yet, but I do think it is concerning and should be addressed. And no, I didn't see any UI indicators. I just want them to stay true to their word, that there will be no cash shop items that have an impact on gameplay.

Ludullu

Transmogs are bad?

George_Black

Hhahahhahaa what is this guy saying?
Are you comparing a caravan to a player?
TTK? Ability to fight back? It's a caravan.... relax, pvp pro.

Yes. A caravan is owned by a player. And I'm saying that the amount of info you have on your enemy influences your decision making. I'm not talking about one guy attacking one coach. I'm talking about 20-30 bandits attacking a 5-10 coach caravan. If you have ever played medium to big scale PvP, you'll know, that the shotcaller often has to make his decisions on the battlefield info he can gather at a glance. (Whooaaaa...getting really excited here).

Now imagine, he sees that default caravan, that has the big healing skill bauble dangling from his roof. Decision: Take down that coach first, before we engage the defenders.

Or he sees that that coach has the blue glowing repulse thingy, that throws melees far away. Decision: Melees distract the defenders, while range destroys the coach. Oh and range has to attack from the front, so they are thrown ahead if they get caught by the pulse.

Or he sees a default coach with all the high tier components, that make it faster. Decision: We got this battle, but that coach might get away, so kill it first.

I could go on. I'm not saying that hiding some info would change the overall outcome of the battle, but it might make the difference for that poor guy, that didn't have the money to buy that skin and the shotcaller had more info on him than on the others. He sadly died and lost all his wares, before the reinforcement could arrive.

What I don't understand is what happens if the attackers bring another Caravan and block the caravan with a caravan. We know caravans will knock mounts and people out of the way and that a caravan has collision system superiority but what wins caravan vs caravan?

Tyranthraxus

The OP isn't completely without merit; If the Cash Shop items genuinely *do* mask the appearance of the Caravan, then perhaps it's an issue to address.

HOWEVER!

As with player-armor, there will likely be buffs that you can see, when targeting the Caravan wagon. Noobs always assume that visual-identification is best, because it sounds good, on-paper - but in the heat and chaos of an active fight, it's actually quite hard to make reliable visual identifications.

Also? We don't know for certain that the customizations *won't* be specifically made, for each "mask" applicable to a Caravan. It sounds like a LOT of work - but at the same time, it's to-be a major element of the AoC gameplay, so it *is* possible that they'll include customizations across-the-board, for the Caravan wagons. As SS mentions in the livestream, their staff is a LOT bigger now, than it was a few years ago, when we got the very first look.

I suspect that the masks will only be applicable to certain levels of the Caravan wagons, though; If it's not powerful enough, then default appearance will probably be more the norm.

Neurath wrote: »

What I don't understand is what happens if the attackers bring another Caravan and block the caravan with a caravan. We know caravans will knock mounts and people out of the way and that a caravan has collision system superiority but what wins caravan vs caravan?

I think they mentioned that caravans dont have collision with other caravans.

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

What I don't understand is what happens if the attackers bring another Caravan and block the caravan with a caravan. We know caravans will knock mounts and people out of the way and that a caravan has collision system superiority but what wins caravan vs caravan?

I think they mentioned that caravans dont have collision with other caravans.

Okay thank you.

Neurath wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

What I don't understand is what happens if the attackers bring another Caravan and block the caravan with a caravan. We know caravans will knock mounts and people out of the way and that a caravan has collision system superiority but what wins caravan vs caravan?

I think they mentioned that caravans dont have collision with other caravans.

Okay thank you.

i'll try to the find the time for the exact details. but it may just be like caravans wont have collision with other caravans while on roads?

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

What I don't understand is what happens if the attackers bring another Caravan and block the caravan with a caravan. We know caravans will knock mounts and people out of the way and that a caravan has collision system superiority but what wins caravan vs caravan?

I think they mentioned that caravans dont have collision with other caravans.

Okay thank you.

i'll try to the find the time for the exact details. but it may just be like caravans wont have collision with other caravans while on roads?

Might make sense in terms of traffic...

Taleof2Cities

Kubitz2 wrote: »

It only takes a second to to gather information on your enemy. As we're talking about PvP here, every second counts. If you deny that, you clearly have never played a PvP game. That's the point, hiding info matters.

Intrepid already has plans for visual “threat assessment” UI tools for enemy player characters … regardless of what that character is wearing.

Not only is it not relevant to a P2W discussion … there are other threads on the subject (if you do a Forums search).

Neurath wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

What I don't understand is what happens if the attackers bring another Caravan and block the caravan with a caravan. We know caravans will knock mounts and people out of the way and that a caravan has collision system superiority but what wins caravan vs caravan?

I think they mentioned that caravans dont have collision with other caravans.

Okay thank you.

i'll try to the find the time for the exact details. but it may just be like caravans wont have collision with other caravans while on roads?

Might make sense in terms of traffic...

If you have several in an event, I don't see why they wouldn't have collision though, other wise players would just stack them and stack the abilities lol. I imagine the wreckage from the destroyed caravan is collision as well.

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

What I don't understand is what happens if the attackers bring another Caravan and block the caravan with a caravan. We know caravans will knock mounts and people out of the way and that a caravan has collision system superiority but what wins caravan vs caravan?

I think they mentioned that caravans dont have collision with other caravans.

Okay thank you.

i'll try to the find the time for the exact details. but it may just be like caravans wont have collision with other caravans while on roads?

Might make sense in terms of traffic...

If you have several in an event, I don't see why they wouldn't have collision though, other wise players would just stack them and stack the abilities lol. I imagine the wreckage from the destroyed caravan is collision as well.

yeah, that's my point. I thought everything has collision...if two ships smash into each other i hope damage occurs to one or both ships unless one is a trireme lol.

Neurath wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

What I don't understand is what happens if the attackers bring another Caravan and block the caravan with a caravan. We know caravans will knock mounts and people out of the way and that a caravan has collision system superiority but what wins caravan vs caravan?

I think they mentioned that caravans dont have collision with other caravans.

Okay thank you.

i'll try to the find the time for the exact details. but it may just be like caravans wont have collision with other caravans while on roads?

Might make sense in terms of traffic...

If you have several in an event, I don't see why they wouldn't have collision though, other wise players would just stack them and stack the abilities lol. I imagine the wreckage from the destroyed caravan is collision as well.

yeah, that's my point. I thought everything has collision...if two ships smash into each other i hope damage occurs to one or both ships unless one is a trireme lol.

That would be pretty cool. I don't see the sea having a shared road for a buff lol. I imagine trolls would make ramming fleets though but who knows especially considering if naval ships are expensive.

EDIT:

maybe the smaller ships wont be able to ram as efficient. But could be interesting with naval blockades as well.