Intrepid just introduced their first P2W item!

Hal mentioned that the components and buffs a caravan has, will be visible and visually change as you upgrade them. This is a real problem, if you consider, that a caravan skin will probably work like a costume for the coach. There is no way that they will make seperate component visuals for each caravan skin. Even disguising how many beasts of burdens you have, or how much cargo you transport would be an advantage.

A caravan skin will effectively be a camouflage suit, which gives you in game advantages and therefore a must have P2W item.

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TheDarkSorcerer

This thread is a little bit much

Songcaller

I pastes the answer from the wiki on the thread previously. Thread needs to die or be closed

Voeltz

This goes hand in hand with the costumes issue. Even if a band aid like a UI icon is created for wagons like they did for costumes. If something that was provided naturally breaks as a result of a negligible design decision, that design decision is BAD. Cosmetics are totally fine, but they need to match the quality and type of item they are used on for obvious reasons. You shouldn't be able to apply a rhino skin to a bunny mount, full plate on full cloth, whatever it is.

Songcaller

Unless you want to learn all the armour sets and weapon skins in the game a UI element is perfectly acceptable to show rarity of items.

Voeltz

There's no learning involved. It's easy to tell the difference between cloth leather and plate if you're not dumb and blind. It takes a matter of seconds to determine the right target visually, where as your method will take a research report which realistically nobody will be doing during combat where you have to make split second decisions.

Enigmatic Sage

Voeltz wrote: »

There's no learning involved. It's easy to tell the difference between cloth leather and plate if you're not dumb and blind. It takes a matter of seconds to determine the right target visually, where as your method will take a research report which realistically nobody will be doing during combat where you have to make split second decisions.

That's also assuming they design the gear accordingly but it's high fantasy so who knows how well that would apply regardless without obvious visual indicators.

Songcaller

Voeltz wrote: »

There's no learning involved. It's easy to tell the difference between cloth leather and plate if you're not dumb and blind. It takes a matter of seconds to determine the right target visually, where as your method will take a research report which realistically nobody will be doing during combat where you have to make split second decisions.

You took the second part, I took the first part. There really is no difference between the three different armour sets. You will instantly tell defensive parameters by the amount of damage you do, whether the target evades or whether the target moves faster or slower. There are tell tale signs in Ashes. Steven and some of the Devs are PvP Veterans - Steven has led many PvP Guilds in PvP Scenarios. I think the devs know how to build pvp and how to build a strong set of combat circumstances. Its the pve I have qualms about.

Conversely, transmog only works on same armour types but when most of the gear is crafted and costumes are cosmetic I'm not sure how many transmog items will be available.

Voeltz

Have you ever played an MMO?? There's a huge difference. So what you're saying is you have to attack the wrong targets to figure out the right ones, and somehow, in the alternate universe you live in, this makes MORE sense than glancing at your enemies and deciding within a few seconds. Got it, thank you for putting your ignorance on full display. No further questions your honor.

Songcaller

From the other thread.

Here is the wiki reference:

Turns out the tab is actually the nameplate now.

The "type" of armor (cloth, leather, plate) a character is predominantly wearing is visible in their nameplate.[31][51]
There will be strengths and weaknesses for armor sets that opponents can exploit with gear enhancements, for example.[31]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtVUiS7yAHE&t=3188s&ab_channel=AshesofCreationWiki

53:08

Mag7spy

Voeltz wrote: »

Have you ever played an MMO?? There's a huge difference. So what you're saying is you have to attack the wrong targets to figure out the right ones, and somehow, in the alternate universe you live in, this makes MORE sense than glancing at your enemies and deciding within a few seconds. Got it, thank you for putting your ignorance on full display. No further questions your honor.

I think it is pretty funny you think you are going to be targeting certain people based on armor and not trying to kill important targets like healers and attack whom ever in the mess of large fights.

Songcaller

Mag7spy wrote: »

Voeltz wrote: »

Have you ever played an MMO?? There's a huge difference. So what you're saying is you have to attack the wrong targets to figure out the right ones, and somehow, in the alternate universe you live in, this makes MORE sense than glancing at your enemies and deciding within a few seconds. Got it, thank you for putting your ignorance on full display. No further questions your honor.

I think it is pretty funny you think you are going to be targeting certain people based on armor and not trying to kill important targets like healers and attack whom ever in the mess of large fights.

Its like these people are pve players trying to pvp. They are scared of the pvp players actually having decent cosmetics and other items to look good like in Guild Wars 1. There are methods to identify the armour type, rarity level and opponent you face, they just won't be explicit from eying the toon. Eying a toon in pvp takes too long anyway. What do they want to do?

PvE Player Approach:
Weapon type: Melee, check.
Armour type: Heavy, check.
Class type: Tank, check

Plan of action? Get taunted because the checks took too long.

Mag7spy

Neurath wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Voeltz wrote: »

Have you ever played an MMO?? There's a huge difference. So what you're saying is you have to attack the wrong targets to figure out the right ones, and somehow, in the alternate universe you live in, this makes MORE sense than glancing at your enemies and deciding within a few seconds. Got it, thank you for putting your ignorance on full display. No further questions your honor.

I think it is pretty funny you think you are going to be targeting certain people based on armor and not trying to kill important targets like healers and attack whom ever in the mess of large fights.

Its like these people are pve players trying to pvp. They are scared of the pvp players actually having decent cosmetics and other items to look good like in Guild Wars 1. There are methods to identify the armour type, rarity level and opponent you face, they just won't be explicit from eying the toon. Eying a toon in pvp takes too long anyway. What do they want to do?

PvE Player Approach:
Weapon type: Melee, check.
Armour type: Heavy, check.
Class type: Tank, check

Plan of action? Get taunted because the checks took too long.

Well you see with my 900 Raid IQ i can use that ability in pvp to see and know all players and their armor and weapon types and organize my raid on the fly to attack only the most optimal people. And move people around the battlefield easily to go where they need to counter certain armor and weapon types.

-pushes glasses up- I was one of the top WoW/EQ pvers, and pvp is easier than pve so it will be easy for me.

Songcaller

Mag7spy wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Voeltz wrote: »

Have you ever played an MMO?? There's a huge difference. So what you're saying is you have to attack the wrong targets to figure out the right ones, and somehow, in the alternate universe you live in, this makes MORE sense than glancing at your enemies and deciding within a few seconds. Got it, thank you for putting your ignorance on full display. No further questions your honor.

I think it is pretty funny you think you are going to be targeting certain people based on armor and not trying to kill important targets like healers and attack whom ever in the mess of large fights.

Its like these people are pve players trying to pvp. They are scared of the pvp players actually having decent cosmetics and other items to look good like in Guild Wars 1. There are methods to identify the armour type, rarity level and opponent you face, they just won't be explicit from eying the toon. Eying a toon in pvp takes too long anyway. What do they want to do?

PvE Player Approach:
Weapon type: Melee, check.
Armour type: Heavy, check.
Class type: Tank, check

Plan of action? Get taunted because the checks took too long.

Well you see with my 900 Raid IQ i can use that ability in pvp to see and know all players and their armor and weapon types and organize my raid on the fly to attack only the most optimal people. And move people around the battlefield easily to go where they need to counter certain armor and weapon types.

-pushes glasses up- I was one of the top WoW/EQ pvers, and pvp is easier than pve so it will be easy for me.

My approach: Use Action Combat to kill my target and tab target to scout the next target. Pepper the next target to weaken the target in preparation for action combat to finish the target. Mass scale will be the same in localised situations but I'm only a guild member and not a raid leader so the higher tactics will come from above. I just have to kill, buff or heal when appropriate. The PvE won't be like WoW/EQ in Ashes it will be like L2 but better I hope.

Mag7spy

Neurath wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Voeltz wrote: »

Have you ever played an MMO?? There's a huge difference. So what you're saying is you have to attack the wrong targets to figure out the right ones, and somehow, in the alternate universe you live in, this makes MORE sense than glancing at your enemies and deciding within a few seconds. Got it, thank you for putting your ignorance on full display. No further questions your honor.

I think it is pretty funny you think you are going to be targeting certain people based on armor and not trying to kill important targets like healers and attack whom ever in the mess of large fights.

Its like these people are pve players trying to pvp. They are scared of the pvp players actually having decent cosmetics and other items to look good like in Guild Wars 1. There are methods to identify the armour type, rarity level and opponent you face, they just won't be explicit from eying the toon. Eying a toon in pvp takes too long anyway. What do they want to do?

PvE Player Approach:
Weapon type: Melee, check.
Armour type: Heavy, check.
Class type: Tank, check

Plan of action? Get taunted because the checks took too long.

Well you see with my 900 Raid IQ i can use that ability in pvp to see and know all players and their armor and weapon types and organize my raid on the fly to attack only the most optimal people. And move people around the battlefield easily to go where they need to counter certain armor and weapon types.

-pushes glasses up- I was one of the top WoW/EQ pvers, and pvp is easier than pve so it will be easy for me.

My approach: Use Action Combat to kill my target and tab target to scout the next target. Pepper the next target to weaken the target in preparation for action combat to finish the target. Mass scale will be the same in localised situations but I'm only a guild member and not a raid leader so the higher tactics will come from above. I just have to kill, buff or heal when appropriate. The PvE won't be like WoW/EQ in Ashes it will be like L2 but better I hope.

I was memeing btw lol

Dygz

Voeltz wrote: »

Have you ever played an MMO?? There's a huge difference. So what you're saying is you have to attack the wrong targets to figure out the right ones, and somehow, in the alternate universe you live in, this makes MORE sense than glancing at your enemies and deciding within a few seconds. Got it, thank you for putting your ignorance on full display. No further questions your honor.

"When it comes to player threat assessment, you will be able to target a player and very quickly, at a glance, be able to see a buff on the character that represents the type of gear they're predominantly wearing, whether it be Plate, Leather or Cloth. And then you will also see a border around that gear gives you an idea of the Tier and Quality. So, you won't have to hover over and see. You will be able to tell, at a glance, tell that this person is going to be effective against Physical damage mitigation and the level of gear they're having is Tier whatever it is and Enchanted just based off of a very quick glance."
---Steven
Live AMA with Steven Sharif, July 25, 2020

Voeltz

Lol, imagine not understanding basic concepts like armor types and target acquisition, yet acting superior. Clearly you know nothing about PvP or MMOs, but please continue to embarrass yourselves.

Songcaller

Voeltz wrote: »

Lol, imagine not understanding basic concepts like armor types and target acquisition, yet acting superior. Clearly you know nothing about PvP or MMOs, but please continue to embarrass yourselves.

Your counter arguments are quite alarming. How would you like PvP to be exactly? Not able to see enchantment level and not able to see rarity level? PvP players would exploit the systems in such a scenario. There's nothing better than having BiS and Transmogging it to level 1 white items for pvp.

George_Black

Voeltz wrote: »

Lol, imagine not understanding basic concepts like armor types and target acquisition, yet acting superior. Clearly you know nothing about PvP or MMOs, but please continue to embarrass yourselves.

It's seems like you havent played an mmo recently. They are full of cosmetics and transmorgs. This whole cosmetic concept has been discussed many times now.
It's bad for pvp in a way and the overall feel of achievement, ok.
But people like the OP play fast and loose with the term p2w...

Songcaller

George_Black wrote: »

Voeltz wrote: »

Lol, imagine not understanding basic concepts like armor types and target acquisition, yet acting superior. Clearly you know nothing about PvP or MMOs, but please continue to embarrass yourselves.

It's seems like you havent played an mmo recently. They are full of cosmetics and transmorgs. This whole cosmetic concept has been discussed many times now.
It's bad for pvp in a way and the overall feel of achievement, ok.
But people like the OP play fast and loose with the term p2w...

Cosmetics and transmogs are disabled for sieges anyway.

Voeltz

George_Black wrote: »

It's seems like you havent played an mmo recently. They are full of cosmetics and transmorgs. This whole cosmetic concept has been discussed many times now.
It's bad for pvp in a way and the overall feel of achievement, ok.
But people like the OP play fast and loose with the term p2w...

Ah, the classic "but everyone else is doing it" argument, good one. The last ones I tried were New World and Albion Online. No, I haven't played a new MMO because they're all GARBAGE. P2W infested, PvE only WoW clones with zero innovation, zero interesting content. Yet here you are going along with the same nonsense that makes them that way.

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