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Why Cosmetics aren't P2W in Ashes.
Songcaller
Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
I had a discussion about P2W and the markers for target acquisition. I wish to highlight why Armour Choice doesn't really matter in the current game design. I will use the points below:
1. The "type" of armor (cloth, leather, plate) a character is predominantly wearing is visible in their nameplate.[31][51]
2. There will be strengths and weaknesses for armor sets that opponents can exploit with gear enhancements, for example.[31]
3. Players will be able to counter resistances with resistance penetration stats.[47]
4. Gear enhancements (power stones/runes) can be applied to weapons to add elemental or energy types of damage.[72][73]
5. Different classes of weapons may deal different types of physical damage: Bludgeoning damage, Slashing damage, Piercing damage.[7][8]
6. 1v1 matchups will have a rock-paper-scissors dynamic, where one class will be superior to another.[16]
7. Certain archetypes are capable of moving the gap between their counterpart per-se. If I am a Tank archetype and a Mage is my counter, I can take a Mage secondary and bridge the divide slightly; and then move my identity that direction ever so slightly.[23] – Steven Sharif
Thus, You can build a Tank for example and add Mage to reduce the Hard Counter effect, however, you will acquire the hard counter for Mage too because to reduce the hard counter of Mage you'd have to spec in Magic Defence or Light Armour rather than Physical Defence or Heavy Armour. You could focus on both Magic Defence and Physical Defence but one would be lower than the other dependant on armour choice unless you choose Medium Armour. If you choose medium armour you would have lower Physical and Magical Defence at the same time than a tank who is purely Magic Defence or Physical Defence. The only saving grace would be a tank with high evasion who would evade both magic attacks and physical attacks. However, there is also accuracy stat on some crafted weapons in some videos which would counter evasion stat.
Gear enhancements can also make your hard counter hard counter you even further. It is not clear how strong the gear enhancements are but each armour type has strengths and weakness which gear enhancements will exploit. Thus, no armour set is immune to these effects. The potential means that counters to the hard counters will be less effective and lowered counters against other forms of damage will be even worse. If someone has a particular grudge against a class then they could become a second Hard Counter to a class just through second archetype choice, weapon selection, horizontal enchantments and gear enhancements. Only evasion would assist against the gear enhancements unless the enhanced gear has high accuracy stats to boot.
There will be no 1vs1 Balance - a rock, paper, scissor dynamic. Thus, no matter how strong you build your defences or min-max your toon, a group of players will still annihilate you on the battlefield. Not good for duels, arena, bounty hunters and anyone looking to survive in the ranks of battles. Of course, some classes will have more cc than others, some classes will have debuffs and some won't, some classes will have buffs and some classes won't and some classes will have heals and some classes won't. This means that some classes will be a rock to more than 1 class, scissors to more than 1 class and paper to more than one class. When I mention classes I mean the base Archetypes because Secondary Archetypes don't seed stats. Therefore, the minimal changes applied by the secondary archetype will only mitigate the original Hard Counter ever so slightly and not the rest.
Therefore, I conclude that the most effective armour is actually Medium Armour because Medium Armour right now gives more critical rating and a balanced Defensive Position which can be further boosted by Magical Resistances and Physical Resistances. The rest have massive weakness on one side or the other despite efforts to bolster either side. Hence, cosmetics and transmogs don't really matter in terms of target selection. Only the active abilities and the performances.
Thank you for your time.
Neurath.
1. The "type" of armor (cloth, leather, plate) a character is predominantly wearing is visible in their nameplate.[31][51]
2. There will be strengths and weaknesses for armor sets that opponents can exploit with gear enhancements, for example.[31]
3. Players will be able to counter resistances with resistance penetration stats.[47]
4. Gear enhancements (power stones/runes) can be applied to weapons to add elemental or energy types of damage.[72][73]
5. Different classes of weapons may deal different types of physical damage: Bludgeoning damage, Slashing damage, Piercing damage.[7][8]
6. 1v1 matchups will have a rock-paper-scissors dynamic, where one class will be superior to another.[16]
7. Certain archetypes are capable of moving the gap between their counterpart per-se. If I am a Tank archetype and a Mage is my counter, I can take a Mage secondary and bridge the divide slightly; and then move my identity that direction ever so slightly.[23] – Steven Sharif
Thus, You can build a Tank for example and add Mage to reduce the Hard Counter effect, however, you will acquire the hard counter for Mage too because to reduce the hard counter of Mage you'd have to spec in Magic Defence or Light Armour rather than Physical Defence or Heavy Armour. You could focus on both Magic Defence and Physical Defence but one would be lower than the other dependant on armour choice unless you choose Medium Armour. If you choose medium armour you would have lower Physical and Magical Defence at the same time than a tank who is purely Magic Defence or Physical Defence. The only saving grace would be a tank with high evasion who would evade both magic attacks and physical attacks. However, there is also accuracy stat on some crafted weapons in some videos which would counter evasion stat.
Gear enhancements can also make your hard counter hard counter you even further. It is not clear how strong the gear enhancements are but each armour type has strengths and weakness which gear enhancements will exploit. Thus, no armour set is immune to these effects. The potential means that counters to the hard counters will be less effective and lowered counters against other forms of damage will be even worse. If someone has a particular grudge against a class then they could become a second Hard Counter to a class just through second archetype choice, weapon selection, horizontal enchantments and gear enhancements. Only evasion would assist against the gear enhancements unless the enhanced gear has high accuracy stats to boot.
There will be no 1vs1 Balance - a rock, paper, scissor dynamic. Thus, no matter how strong you build your defences or min-max your toon, a group of players will still annihilate you on the battlefield. Not good for duels, arena, bounty hunters and anyone looking to survive in the ranks of battles. Of course, some classes will have more cc than others, some classes will have debuffs and some won't, some classes will have buffs and some classes won't and some classes will have heals and some classes won't. This means that some classes will be a rock to more than 1 class, scissors to more than 1 class and paper to more than one class. When I mention classes I mean the base Archetypes because Secondary Archetypes don't seed stats. Therefore, the minimal changes applied by the secondary archetype will only mitigate the original Hard Counter ever so slightly and not the rest.
Therefore, I conclude that the most effective armour is actually Medium Armour because Medium Armour right now gives more critical rating and a balanced Defensive Position which can be further boosted by Magical Resistances and Physical Resistances. The rest have massive weakness on one side or the other despite efforts to bolster either side. Hence, cosmetics and transmogs don't really matter in terms of target selection. Only the active abilities and the performances.
Thank you for your time.
Neurath.
4
Comments
I'll necro the old skin where azherea was agreeing with that player saying AoC was P2W lol.
OK
Yours truly was never opposed to cosmetic/appearance gear overlapping our actual gear, in the first place, but there do seem to be a lot of worry-warts whom seem to think it's just SUCH a vital issue. Am convinced that their concerns will quickly melt away, once the game finally arrives - once they get some in-game experience and see first-hand that a quick glance at the nameplates will be a FAR-better option that sitting there trying to see through all the pixels and visuals that combat will generate and both try to visually identify armor AND its type.
Go ahead and draw 8 circles, and then try to draw arrows between them indicating "A beats B."
It's an "interesting" exercise.
Well, one can't dictate with 8 circles because there are only two damage types - magical and physical. We haven't seen some classes and we haven't seen the updated fighter. I merely advise that Medium Armour is the best armour when enhanced.
Edit: There are three armour types: Hence the rock, paper, scissors in a 1vs1 Scenario. There might be 64 classes but all 64 classes have the option of two damage types and three armour sets. So, on face value you're against 2:2 options in Medium Armour and have 2:2 boons against both. Furthermore, if you enhance your gear for your own damage type, the mitigation of either light or physical is reduced. Also, if you only augment some of your skills and keep half Magical and half Physical you would be the ultimate hybrid dps in the ultimate hybrid armour.
You won't get a set bonus that way...
depends how the set bonuses work and if it's the case where you have to have all armour slots the same, then it just makes the whole armour type system relatively flawed for high fantasy. The word predominately is the biggest clue unless it's just another word misused.
It's almost like they sold a bunch of promises in Kickstarter packs before hashing out the game and are trying to find ways to control the wild fire lol
Well, you can get a crafter to shape the benefits of the armour how you want. You also get active abilities from the armour. Yet, medium armour can grant haste to your active abilities and also grant critical rating. I'm not sure what the set bonuses are but they are not like ESO. You do have to have a full set of whatever armour.
Sounds like many RPG's with catering stats on armour and being able to customise them.
Then predominately does not apply as armour type sole exclusivity applies. Classes have efficiency bonuses to types.
looks like 8 armour slots and 2 jewelry
Guess I'm just used to things being more intricate with risk vs reward in terms of armour classifications and penalties.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Armor
Back and belt is part of armour in my opinion. Neck and rings are two types but I suppose if we wear two rings we can call it three slots technically.
doesn't change anything though to what we were discussing about bonuses and armour intricacy.
Any class can use any armour and any weapons. The armour can be built around whatever stats you want but the defensive stats are what matters in armour. However, you can place defensive stats in the 5 jewellery slots too. In medium armour that should max out both defensive positions. The rest can then be added to offense. The class efficiency will come from the active abilities which won't change the inherent class apparently. Thus, anyone can be efficient with any armour type. After all, a base class can end up as physical damage or magical damage. The stats have to be applied by the crafter.
You mentioned that already and I replied about catering stats and armour intricacy. It's high fantasy.
I don't know what your aim is but the thread is about hybrid building. The aim is to be effective with both types of incoming damage. Its not about high fantasy, its about survival in any situation. The cosmetics deal with high fantasy. You can't double stats up so base stats matter. You also have situations where physical or magical damage is negated by certain bosses/mobs. Hence why a Hybrid build is preferred. Either that or you'd have to swap secondary classes before certain bosses. Its perfectly feasible to build a hybrid in the given system you could even have a magical ranged weapon and a physical melee weapon or vice versa. Flexibility is key.
That's all relatively common things in the RPG genre with gear. As I said, I'm used to and prefer things more intricate with armour class. Everything is technically significant. It's a buzz word people get caught up on.
You can build how you want. My aim is to survive PvX and contestation. As George said, you can't separate yourself from pvp in pve or pve in pvp. You have to be equipped for both. So, my plan is set and the advice has been given. The waterfall stats mean you'd even have evasion on the medium armour and accuracy on the armour and weapons. Thus, you would be PvX enabled. I don't even know what class you will play but in PvP the ability to not be hard countered by Light Armour or Heavy Armour dependant on target as a DPS is vital. Majority of people will never see my thread in the live game.
you're spiraling this lol
no man, you're spiraling it lol