Concern about limited legendary/artifact gear

So it's been revealed that there will only be a single piece of artifact gear per server (I don't know if this applies to just weapons or also armor). Additionally, it's been revealed that there will be a limited amount of legendary gear per server.

In a pvp game, this is concerning, because it means that typically the strongest guild will collect the majority of these, and no one will be able to compete with them.

I also feel like if I put in the effort, even if it takes me longer, I should eventually be able to get the best gear, and not be blocked from being able to obtain it because the limited number of them has already been reached.

In my opinion, I think artifact gear should be scrapped all together, and make legendary gear obtainable by everyone, but just make it very difficult to do so.

For example in Guildwars 2, there is legendary gear, and the process to obtain even just 1 of these is a very long process that can take months of farming to obtain.

What are everyone else's thoughts on this?

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Ludullu

Keep everything as is and just balance it in a way where that single person's guild with that single item has barely any noticeable advantage over another group that doesn't have said item.

Raven016

Steve calls this high long effort needed to eventually obtain something "threadmill".
He wants to avoid offering the possibility players to get something with a long and safe boring effort.
But if you add PvP into the process, he will like it.

The game will be fun if players focus on winning battles together rather than willing to get or blame legendary gear. That legendary might not help much against large well coordinated enemy groups.

But you should worry about the next best tier below legendary too, which will be crafted by freehold owners... if they manage to transport their materials to high level nodes.

I'm not a thief but in AoC I might end up looting rich peoples caravans who farm in raids if I have freehold myself.

Kilion

I don't really share that concern due to the following reasons:

Gear makes up 40-50% of combat power of an individual character so there is plenty of room left to overpower someone with an artifact item
These items will not negate the Rock-Paper-Scissors System which leads me to believe that a mage with the Staff of Carphin will still go poof when fighting an assassin
Just because someone has an artifact doesn't mean they'll be where PvP happens. Not only because they literally cant be everywhere at the same time but also because they might not even be all that interested in it to begin with. Especially reconstructed (so crafted) artifacts might end up more often in the hands of PvE focused players
We do not know how many of these will exist. It could be that every big dungeon potentially holds one of these, every God can grant one, each bigger NPC faction offers one and so on. Unique doesn't mean that they as a group are so rare that virtually nobody can get their hands on them

Additionally, I don't like the "everything should be accessible to everyone who puts in the time" approach. As shown with Sulfuras in old WoW, high accessibility costs can successfully limit the number of players who actually hold one on of those, but I don't think that is necessarily conducive in Ashes, which has to promote competition some way - and racing for one of those unique items is a perfect incentive.

Though were I willl show agreement is, that a long term, extremely dedicated guild could go around focussing on nothing else but collecting the unique artifacts on a server. For such a case there should be options to gain access to these items again via PvP. e.g. ensure that artifacts in a storagehouse will all disappear when the Node is successfulls destroyed during a siege, so that they can once again be obtained. Or limit the unique artifact number per slot a character can own to 1. There is definitely something here to be concerned about / to closely observe in terms of balance, but I don't think that abandoning the idea of artifacts altogether is the right solution within Ashes.

Depraved

Milotrix wrote: »

So it's been revealed that there will only be a single piece of artifact gear per server (I don't know if this applies to just weapons or also armor). Additionally, it's been revealed that there will be a limited amount of legendary gear per server.

In a pvp game, this is concerning, because it means that typically the strongest guild will collect the majority of these, and no one will be able to compete with them.

I also feel like if I put in the effort, even if it takes me longer, I should eventually be able to get the best gear, and not be blocked from being able to obtain it because the limited number of them has already been reached.

In my opinion, I think artifact gear should be scrapped all together, and make legendary gear obtainable by everyone, but just make it very difficult to do so.

For example in Guildwars 2, there is legendary gear, and the process to obtain even just 1 of these is a very long process that can take months of farming to obtain.

What are everyone else's thoughts on this?

while you are right, you are wrong.

first, we dont know how powerful this gear is going to be compared to the gear that comes right before it that can be obtained by anyone. a 1% power is not going to make a difference, for example. probs not even 5%

also, i think some of those things have changed. as we saw in the last artisan stream, you can craft legendary gear using legendary mats, and steven said in the q&a that even if you cant use those mats, you can still upgrade to legendary quality by other means after you crafted the gear. so probably legendary gear now refers to things like common - uncommon - rare - epic - legendary as it is used in other games and anyone can get them.

if there is unique gear that not everybody can get, that doesnt mean that every single player from a guild can get one, or even that they will all be in one guild. those will probably be the equivalent to hero weapons in L2 that you would get from the olympiads.

Thokan

If everyone can get an item, it is neither rare nor epic. If you gate it behind labor and time you only assure that only the hardcore playerbase gets access to it.

Personally I love the idea of actually unique items. Assuming it just adds a few percent extra to the 40-50% gear power I wouldn't mind at all getting shattered by the one guy on the server holding The Sword of a Thousand Tears. It would only be awesome.

One thing though. I would like to see them used but not permanently. I.e, I dont think making them droppable is the right course - you would only hide it away for gear fear. I say make it timed. You get the artifact/legendary drop and it lasts for a year until it vanished from your character/account and gets readded to the loot tables.

Swifty00

I still think guilds will not be nearly as powerful in AoC as they are in other games. Nodes are not owned by guilds, and nodes are the key to everything. You may get a Node dominating a Server, but even then it will be limited by how many people can get residences, but I don't think a guild will be able to.

You may be able to get an Alliance of Guilds, but I can't even imagine the drama that is going to occur with that arrangement.

Caww

wiki: Legendary equipment is only dropped by Legendary world bosses.[3]
Legendary equipment will have a roughly 6-12% improvement in base stats, subject to testing and balancing.

One player with the only legendary piece of equipment in its slot is not going to be a god killer, maybe a tough one-on-one PvP opponent but in any other circumstance with many players at once, there will be little additional benefit. Even if a player managed to collect a few pieces they are still only a single combatant in a war zone. As long as the gear is toon/account bound then it will be more of a trophy piece and not a devastating advantage.

Enigmatic Sage

If they're doing something like DAOC where the relics boosted the realm or in AoC's case the node and its citizens then that could be interesting but I imagine they could be extremely temporary and create incentive to attack the node that houses one of them.

On the other side of it, could give them an advantage during the siege as attackers or defenders. Will have to see how it plays out for the Artifacts, how to acquire it and utilise it.

Could be good and/or bad.

Electronn

We don't really know at this point how artifact and legendary gear will be obtained, so it's unclear how much of an advantage the "strongest" guilds will have.

Milotrix wrote: »

In my opinion, I think artifact gear should be scrapped all together, and make legendary gear obtainable by everyone, but just make it very difficult to do so.

I am very opposed to this. Same with flying mounts. If everyone can obtain it, it's really not that special. This is coming from someone who has basically zero chance of ever obtaining a flying mount or artifact gear.

Taleof2Cities

NiKr wrote: »

Keep everything as is and just balance it in a way where that single person's guild with that single item has barely any noticeable advantage over another group that doesn't have said item.

Good answer.

But, that doesn’t preclude the OP from being social and finding a guild … and maybe using that legendary piece anyway.

Nor does it preclude the OP from getting legendary gear through crafting.

Talents

Disagree. We've known about "legendary unqiues", aka Artifact gear for years now. 1 per-server pieces of gear is one of the things that got me more hyped about Ashes when I first started following the game.

Solvryn

Milotrix wrote: »

So it's been revealed that there will only be a single piece of artifact gear per server (I don't know if this applies to just weapons or also armor). Additionally, it's been revealed that there will be a limited amount of legendary gear per server.

In a pvp game, this is concerning, because it means that typically the strongest guild will collect the majority of these, and no one will be able to compete with them.

I also feel like if I put in the effort, even if it takes me longer, I should eventually be able to get the best gear, and not be blocked from being able to obtain it because the limited number of them has already been reached.

In my opinion, I think artifact gear should be scrapped all together, and make legendary gear obtainable by everyone, but just make it very difficult to do so.

For example in Guildwars 2, there is legendary gear, and the process to obtain even just 1 of these is a very long process that can take months of farming to obtain.

What are everyone else's thoughts on this?

I think slapping a timer on it or making it low dura is the only answer. Meaning once they break they go back into the Artifact pool.

Many people think the Artifact/Legendary system is good till servers start camping certain areas of the game and gatekeeping others out of content.

It’s one of the behaviors that’ll lead to the inevitable death of a server.

Chaos_Legion

They could lower the drop chance with every artifact existing on server. Drop chance = basechance / (existing artifacts +1) Will lower drop chance somewhat each time. You probably will never get it but copium is addictive. The first one still could be original and the rest are named replicas if that is important.

Liniker

I'm tired of cookie-cutter MMOs where everyone feels entitled because a legendary piece of gear is just common since everyone can get it by reaching endgame and doing some raiding, I really really hope that intrepid treats legendaries as "Legendary" with just the most dedicated players being able to reach them, and artifacts should 100% be unique, 1 of each type per server,

they can balance who owns it by having time degradation, unrepairable items, or artifacts associated with ranks like top 1 in religion/social org/pvp season/castle owner/node mayor etc after the person leaves the position a timer starts ticking and the item is gone, multiple ways of doing it

Dripyula

Milotrix wrote: »

In a pvp game, this is concerning, because it means that typically the strongest guild will collect the majority of these, and no one will be able to compete with them.

From that point onwards every further feels kinda meaningless. The no-lifers can never be outrun.
Cause they are no-lifers who put their entire life into one game so they have these advantages.
It is not that the Artifacts make them invincible.
It is because they are no-lifers that they are destined to get everything first and hog it for all eternity.

There is only one option to counter no-lifers and that is a very high chance of RNG.
If even the hardest sweatwork cannot guarantee a headstart, only then you will have PvP that will always stay exciting for the casuals too.
But this fundamentally goes against the original spirit of an MMO.
In which powerleveling and itemlevel grinding on maxlevel is supposed to basically give you a higher maxlevel than those of casuals.

I can see Artifacts in only one way not making people either overly jealous or apathetic towards the holder.
And that is to have it so that the Artifact is never more powerful than 1,5x as powerful the best gear below its category at best.
And maybe... give it a 1hour cooldown that creates a truly awesome effect but at least it is only 1hour then in which such a player looks like "the chosen one".

I am more interested in abilities that help you to mimic a flying mount.
Cause I've heard those will be super rare. And to see the beautiful world of Verra out of the air will be a previlige in itself I can imagine.

But maybe there will be a much more wide spread "gliding downwards" option? I hope so.
Like building a glider with a knowledge mixture of leatherwork and a tech-profession or so.

But do not expect to beat no-lifers in their 10's or 20's anytime soon.
Those with the most IRL freetime are destined to be the King's most of the time.
Or the IRL unemployed crew. ^^

Liniker wrote: »

I really really hope that intrepid treats legendaries as "Legendary" with just the most dedicated players being able to reach them, and artifacts should 100% be unique, 1 of each type per server

World of Warcraft -> Ashbringer.

Nuff said.
I never truly wanted that thing and when everyone got it in Legion I felt... strange.
Since my first character was a Retributionpaladin I was glad to have it I guess but it would have been better if only one person on the server could hold the Ashbringer at a time.

True.
Unique things should stay unique.
If everyone is "unique", no one is.

Enigmatic Sage

The way I see artifacts being one per server...

If they are so rare and individually boosting then they're so insignificant that they practically don't exist to the rest of the server and the game functions without them just fine... that just makes them relatively pointless to have in the game other than someone's fomo'd self-esteem.

Scarctic

They should be visually seen on the player, effects to a degree, were you as the holder of the item would be recognizable as such. Also, if there are set boni... why shouldn't legendary items have one too, imagine collecting "the" set and have a tremendous individual class specific set bonus.

Aszkalon

Milotrix wrote: »

In a pvp game, this is concerning, because it means that typically the strongest guild will collect the majority of these, and no one will be able to compete with them.

I see.
However - do you think it will truly matter if one or a few People have stronger Gear than everyone else,

when Players - as Groups or even Armies - can meet each other in Battle ? Like so what if one or a few Players are +20% to +30% stronger than the most elite Players with the best "Epic/Non-Legendary"-Gear that Players can craft otherwise ?

I can understand your Concern. But will it turn out really this massive and enormous a Difference ?
Last but not least,
Sir Steven and his Crew could always " nerf " Legendary Gear somewhat, in Case it always happens that some Guilds hoard all of them.

I would be curious about the Reactions then. Like they still have an Advantage - but it is not that great that it makes all the Difference.

Milotrix wrote: »

I also feel like if I put in the effort, even if it takes me longer, I should eventually be able to get the best gear, and not be blocked from being able to obtain it because the limited number of them has already been reached.

But isn't that literally what " legendary " means ?

One or a few People are lucky, or have the best Connections to other Players - and then get all the Shinies (lol) that everyone would love to have.

I know it's unfair - but how can it be made more fair than by Luck and/or Effort ?

Milotrix wrote: »

In my opinion, I think artifact gear should be scrapped all together, and make legendary gear obtainable by everyone, but just make it very difficult to do so.

For example in Guildwars 2, there is legendary gear, and the process to obtain even just 1 of these is a very long process that can take months of farming to obtain.

What are everyone else's thoughts on this?

If " Everyone " can obtain it, then it will be just another Form of Elitism again - although i like how it would cancel it out that some People/Guilds can just hog the Majority or all Legendary Items for themself.

I have one more Suggestion here ... ... ... >;-)

Why not making it so - - - > that every single Player on the Server - can have only ONE Armor/Weapon/Trinket/whatever -Slot, with a Legendary ?

Like : the powerful Item has an Aura, a Vibe - a small Atmosphere around itself or the like - > that repulses other Legendary Items. You can have only One equipped. Never Two.

So a legendary Sorcerer could always a legendary Sorcerer Hat. But not a legendary Sorcerer Staff along with it.

A Legendary Knight could have legendary Shoulder-Armor - or a Legendary Sword - but never both.

And so on - and so on ... ... >;-]

One Way to nerf the Possibility of People trying to create some "Chosen One" like Elminster from DnD, lol.

Dripyula

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

The way I see artifacts being one per server...

If they are so rare and individually boosting then they're so insignificant that they practically don't exist to the rest of the server and the game functions without them just fine... that just makes them relatively pointless to have in the game other than someone's fomo'd self-esteem.

Ambience for my post! Go to 1:36

https://youtu.be/0PcGZllA9E4?feature=shared&t=96

Either fomo or simply something to boast.
While I support the idea of something special being special by not everyone being able to have it, this can create a lot of toxicity. People aren't necessarily sportsman like.

" Have you heard the tale of the Scepter of the shifting sands and it's wielder?
He could open the gates to Ahn'Qiraj and safed the whole of Azeroth. He became so powerful, the only thing he was afraid of was... the spite he invoked by his brilliant appearance.
Which eventually, of course, happened. Unfortunately, he whipped out the 'Black Qiraji battle tank". Then his severs community reported him to be 'afk' in Alteracvalley. It's ironic. He could save others from death, but not himself. "

Because of envy and hatred.

This is what happened to someone who had a super ultra rare, legendary grade MOUNT back in the day in World of Warcraft in 2005.
It took me yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeears to understand what I saw on that fateful day.

" Oh wow, he has a Qiraji mount. I didn't knew they existed outside of- ", me.
>PUFF< and he was gone.
[ SoAndSo has left the battleground. ] according to chats automatic notification.
Made no sense to me.
And then it hit me. +5 people had voted him AFK when they saw him.
They could not tolerate him having something they could not.
And so they kicked him from the BG because they hated him.

Stuff like that just sticks with you.

Child Item