Open World PvP will always have disparities in group size and composition.
IMO the greater enjoyment comes in implementations that included mechanics by which a group, given sufficient forewarning and time, can effectively survive or effect an attack.
Perhaps the most successful was EVE Online, which provided a myriad of opportunities for surprise engagement or escape. (warping to bookmarks, gate or station camping, techniques for warp prevention, drag bubble, etc) Some are via abilities of specific "classes", some are available via specific items.
Yes, I realize AoC is not scifi themed, but hopefully it sparks some ideas.
ESO provides one playful example, namely the "Forward Camp" item, allowing fallen allies to quickly respawn together as the camp goes up, within range restrictions.
(...snip)
Summoning players skill specific to a class. Warlocks in wow could summon players with the help of other players.
Ritual of Summoning
Level 33 warlock ability
30 yd range
5% of base mana
2 min cooldown
Channeled
Begins a ritual to create a summoning portal, requiring the caster and 2 allies to complete. This portal can be used to summon party and raid members. (...snip)
I would lean towards providing such mechanics via Utility Skills, since then any group would have access. But hey, a few class specialty skills could be very cool.
Maybe Ashes of Creation can break new ground as pertains to PvP mobility.
Moreover, it could provide some striking areas of expansion with new ideas in the future (ie: it need not all have been invented or imagined at launch).
May AoC Rock the MMORPG World !
Casually Serious.
LFG: Open World, tight knit coordination, multiple roles, will travel.
I really like buffs that affect whole group, in Aion the class Chanter had different mantras that were like passive buffs and they affected all friendly in certain radius. Some affected crit chance, physical def, mana restoration, HP restoration and my favourite was affecting speed of walking/running.
This made that class really fun to play and I would love to see something similar in AoC
I wanted to highlight your comment because I've noticed that "group buffs" seem largely absent from the various Archetypes as previewed for Alpha 2. Such skills are generally intrinsic to group composition in a lot of excellent PvP MMOs; caveat on OP.
Although maybe only a few should be available via "Utility" skills.
x0x0
Casually Serious.
LFG: Open World, tight knit coordination, multiple roles, will travel.
Since every server will be different and the development of nodes and biomes will impact the world and economy so significantly, I would really like to see some advanced map and location features expressed through utility skills. Things like Locate Treasure, Locate Ore/Herb/Tree/Fish, etc.... Developing a system that includes players and turns map making and informaation sharing into an actual profession would go far and beyond most games I've played. So many crafting systems scale materials level and location with location difficulty or player level but there's no method to the location of the mats and no information of where they might be found. Like in the last development video, finding a tree or an ore or a fish that's only available in a specifc biome in winter and at night, this is super cool and unique feature but that information needs to be discoverable by players not just through a text box from an NPC and not just from some bloke who happens to stumble into a volcano at midnight while it's snowing (though that's awesome and very RP for that player!). Furthering the "finding" utility skill could be it's own skill tree/profession entirely and range from locating clusters mats to monsters to bounty targets and even which nodes across Vera are developed and to what degree, etc... I would love to see some of these systems in the players hands and not just on some wiki that I have to pull up when I'm looking for a specific piece of loot. Doesn't necessarily need to be a mini-game perse, just a skill that gets developed somehow or even paid for to further specific types of location and information gathering.
On a totally separate track, I always loved the games that gave mages or enchanters an entire spell book of combat useless but super utility friendly spells. Things like walk on water, breathe underwater, increases to fishing or other profession xp gain, hide identity, disguise, transmute, provide light, etc... super fun to have in the spellbook and for general RP.
Taking a page from more modern games, more combat relevant utility spells like speed/stamina/strength boost, mana/health regen boost, spell dmg / melee dmg boost, boost to any type of resistance, thorn skin, etc are all really valuable and could be spread amonogst classes to give them all a little utility bump (though I always get really annoyed when Rangers only buff is speed and nature resistance like we get it already -_-)
Additionally, I am really excited by the naval, pvp, and bounty prospects in Ashes as well as the breadth of professions (and nodes and caravans! so basically all the systems!!!). Any utility skill that interacts with those things would be super valuable to me and continue to add to the immersion of this game. Shipbuilding, ship efficacy, caravan efficacy, etc.. I know there are crafting systems in place that will effect these things but it would be cool to see the players actually spec as professions like merchant and sailor, etc.
Bounty system am really interested in how this system gets fleshed out. Who/how these can be tracked, what the rewards and insentives will be and how those things can be played with. But I am also very pro-PVP and would love to see a system that makes it challenging to find said Bounties. Being able to disguise yourself, hide your inventory, hide your level or gear stats, etc... so useful and I think all fall under the Utility category depending on your play style and the systems you choose to interact with. There's nothing worse than a game that offers PVP as an avenue and then massively penalizes players who want to explore it and sets up tons of avenues for players to find and kill "wanted" targets without providing any utility for those of us that want to play as outlaws.
Love the work you all are doing, can't wait to discover Vera!
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akabearMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Weight / speed utility
I like the idea that your speed is influenced by your encumbrance
But also like the idea that if you choose a solid/heavy class your movement speed is slowed down and if you choose a lighter more nimble your run speed might be higher and then balance that against your character encumbrance at the character design stage and when geared up and laden.
1.) Spell: Dispell/Detect/Imbue Examples: Changes between classes, races, and sometimes both are required to achieve an advanced form of Dispell, Detect, or Imbue.
Dispell Illusion, Detect Magic, Imbue with Magic or Element by Type @ Proficiency of Caster, Detect Stealth, Magical Invisibility, Dispell Curse, Dispell Simple Arcana, Dispell Totem, Summon Totem, Imbue Totem
When it comes to utility skills, my favorite are cloaking to stealth, knockbacks, stuns, snares and release from snares.
That being said, I believe that given the wide variety of utility skills that there are, that different classes should have different utility, based on each class motif. Though, some utility skills being offered based on the religion of the character would be nice.
What utility skills do you feel are most important? Are there certain scenarios that should require specific ones?[/quote]
Tracking skills, for example:
- Animal/Creature tracking for Ranger
- Elemental/Magic Creature tracking for Mage
- Undead tracking for Cleric
- Ship tracking and Wind/Navigation aids for a highly skilled sea captain
- Resource tracking for gathering classes
Navigation skills, for example:
- Teleport for Mage
- Climbing for Rogue
Otherwise it depends on how DnD like the game becomes. Detect Trap, Lock Pick, Secret Doors etc, if that is applicable
It should be "Dwarf Punt", or we should have the option to upgrade "Toss" for better range.
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kalafaxMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I definitely think there should be elements that require utility abilities to gain access to. Such as hidden underwater caves, POIs, caches, and creatures that you need something like underwater breathing for, either from some potion or magic item, or because your class/group can cast it.
Jump puzzles are something that frustrate me but they add a challenge, allowing utility abilities such as Spider Climb so you can walk on walls or ceiling for a short amount of time, or an ability to summon a short lived Wall that you can use as a platform if your quick enough would be fantastic. Also then the Wall conjuring can be used to crowd control and utility ( no one said it could only have one use )
If they are going to have flying Mounts or gliders or any of that then I don't see why they couldn't have some sort of Levitation abilities so you could get to ledges and hidden spots, and on the other side of that FeatherFall is a staple to use.
Utility abilities that let you lock pick boxes, doors, and possibly even vehicles/caravans. The Smugglers ability to slice/lockpick boxes in SWG that couldn't be opened any other way created its own social and economic venture. As long as they stayed away from the microtransaction of selling keys I think it's perfectly viable to have utility skills or spells that revolve around opening stuff that can't be accessed any other way.
Having the ability to change the make up, hair, and other things about another character is a good utility ability. Instead of going to some NPC barber you go to another players beauty shop and work with them to change up your characters designs, they gain skills and thus unlock new designs to pick from. You could also allow them to temporarily hide or change player Name Plates, such as using an illusion to give a False Name, Level, Class or so on for a limited amount of time, which could be detected by higher levels Detection abilities.
Just some ideas that I've seen from previous generations that for some unknown reason died off and would make a huge splash in current era games.
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NyehNoiceMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I would love to see Rangers only share about half of the parkour/advanced building traversal options that Rogues have. Instead Rangers could use a roped/chained arrow shot that creates a swing point for players to cross large gaps or fling across city roof tops.
I don't mean to imply that Rangers should all just be Spider-Man, but having more unique feeling forms of movement and traversal across the 8 base archetypes is something I think works well in establishing AND respecting class fantasy. I think exploring new options (even if on paper they might sound goofy) is a good start to pushing the boundaries other MMOs have set where utility is typically just a teleport or just another extension of combat again.
Amazing work so far! 2024 is looking like a big one for Intrepid
We've asked our community what they thought and we got the following replies:
Q) What utility skills do you feel are most important? Are there certain scenarios that should require specific ones?
- It's enjoyable when utility abilities can also benefit a party. For example a teleport that can transport more people when they are near the caster or opt-in to join the teleport.
- Climbing surfaces to a reasonable degree so you can get to vantage points more easily
- If a mage teleport is allowed to be a point and click teleport instead of x distance in the direction you're moving
- A tracking/detection skill for rogue or ranger
- Effective disguises for PvP to blend into the environment/npc crowd
- Have the class specific utility skills be powerful enough to become a consideration when forming a party
- Dodge rolling
- Being able to shed targeting and prevent retargeting for x amount of seconds
- A utility skill that lets you ignore player/monster collision
- A skill that allows you to have increased movement when moving towards enemies
- Being able to tether yourself to a teammate to share buffs, partially tank damage and/or empower each other through teamwork
- Being able to draw on the map/set down map pins, and save or share these with the guild and party. Perhaps as a scribe perk.
- AoE stealth. Stealth yourself and nearby allies in a radius
- The mana donation skill from mage in the alpha was a nice teamwork utility skill. Keeping your healer topped up to provide healing since mage could have higher mana regen.
- Having old-school plain +hp/hp stat, +healing received, barrier or boost movement speed buffs. And having these buffs last between 30-60m. It was extremely fun selling buffing services as a Ringmaster in Flyff.
- The cleric whip in A1 that granted mana/health and stamina regen was a fun utility skill as well
- A "buff bar" which functions like a hotbar but for buffs. It can autocast them all 1 by 1 with the press of a single button.
- No reagents for casted buffs pls. Becomes a chore, takes up bag space and will be a financial burden ingame compared to other classes that don't have to buff people.
- Mix damage and utility. Have a shield that can be popped for damage, but the more HP the shield has the more dmg it does.
Utility skills are odd because they can build up resentment in players. A class can feel their 'utility' is less then other classes, or if there are classes that are meant for utility then those classes can feel they've been balanced to be underpowered to account for non-combat utility.
Either way, I don't think you should give every class utility, and the best way is to just give utility abilities when it makes sense, even if it results in some classes having no utility.
Utility skills that make sense to me are:
- runspeed (always in release and then nerfed post-release, but everyone loves running fast... leave it in).
- lockpicking should be a universal skill not tied to rogues
- safe fall (it's fun)
- light (after turning night more dark this will be a must)
- stealth detection
Thinking about it abilities that grant utility to the group should be avoided I think (except for bards). So no granting group stealth or group stealth detection. It's something that sounds good, but in practice it becomes bring x class instead of making each class play differently. Utility is a way to make each class play differently.
What utility skills do you feel are most important? Are there certain scenarios that should require specific ones?
Can it be seen and/or accepted, that it might be an Utility-Skill - > to use a bush or several bushes in Nature, to hide inside or behind it ?
I think i read already that "the Environment" will be able to block the Sight of one's Character and/or Character-"Name" over the Head,
but when Utility-Skills is interacting with the Environment in special Ways - like for Example climbing over the City-Wall of a Node as a means to sneak inside, as a Person of an "Enemy Node" for Example in Times of War,
can Utility Skills also being used for Stealth, in some limited ways ?
The Possibility is kinda important for me - and i am not even planning to play a Rogue.
Utility skills are a really good way to make a class unique. Choosing between cc, mobility, cc breaks, buffs, debuffs, etc are a really good way of allowing for different playstyles to shine through primary classes.
Jumping. I grew up on platformers and cant stop loving it. Every class is gonna jump. Every race is gonna jump. If i could sacrifice DPS for jumping height, i would do it 100% of the time. Please do jumping right. Ask yourself, is it necessary to have a jump button?
Open World PvP will always have disparities in group size and composition.
IMO the greater enjoyment comes in implementations that included mechanics by which a group, given sufficient forewarning and time, can effectively survive or effect an attack.
OK, a simple "utility" example to illustrate the concept of survival against larger groups in hostile PvP environment.
Suppose you have two utility structures that can be constructed (given requisite skills and mats): (1) Ladder, (2) Bridge.
Ladder or Bridge could be set up shortly before an engagement, say to take out a caravan where, although the engagement can succeed, one or more hostile large groups are near enough to make escape unlikely (how often I've seen chases across entire maps). And yet, having prepped an escape route via ladder or bridge in advance, those few seconds are enough to get the escapees out of reach.
Moreover, these obstacle conquering utilities might be:
(a) destructible by "owner(s)", sending close pursuers to their deaths and cutting off the rest, or (b) be so narrow as to force single file passage, so although a large group might still succeed in pursuit, such a pursuit could prove costly as the defenders can better focus their firepower against the single file.
Given the diverse terrain and verticality in Ashes, simple "utilities" along these lines could expand tactical possibilities manyfold, rewarding skill and ingenuity when combating larger groups.
Casually Serious.
LFG: Open World, tight knit coordination, multiple roles, will travel.
Utility skills are odd because they can build up resentment in players. A class can feel their 'utility' is less then other classes, or if there are classes that are meant for utility then those classes can feel they've been balanced to be underpowered to account for non-combat utility.
Either way, I don't think you should give every class utility, and the best way is to just give utility abilities when it makes sense, even if it results in some classes having no utility.
Utility skills that make sense to me are:
- runspeed (always in release and then nerfed post-release, but everyone loves running fast... leave it in).
- lockpicking should be a universal skill not tied to rogues
- safe fall (it's fun)
- light (after turning night more dark this will be a must)
- stealth detection
Thinking about it abilities that grant utility to the group should be avoided I think (except for bards). So no granting group stealth or group stealth detection. It's something that sounds good, but in practice it becomes bring x class instead of making each class play differently. Utility is a way to make each class play differently.
AoC isnt a singleplayer experience with coop instanced raids and BG pvp.
This means that there is no tank, dps, healer meta that only matters in a sterilized instanced environment, nor there is a 4man/8man group combo to beat the same team v team settup found in instances.
There is open world pvp
Raid contest
Cargo transfer
Wealth generation
Leveling and faction progress and many more scenarios that are a lot more complicated than the stagnant gameplay that most mmos offer today due to no owpvp.
This means that people dont feel compelled to fill the narrow meta requirements for narrow gameplay options.
You can play a class/weapon combo that will excell in one aspect (perhaps 1v1) and suck and many other tasks. You will still enjoy your playstyle and some thought-out utility addition will be available without the fear of meta results.
Augment utility Elemental Augmentations on weapons based on class.
Fire Arrows, Light Arrows, Ice Arrows, Enchant Sword Fire, Enchant Sword Ice, Enchant Sword Air, Imbue Armor Stone, Imbue Armor Lightning, Imbue Armor Ice, Etc..
One thing I loved from a super older Korean grinder called FlyFF was that you could enchant your weapons with elemental damage which would do more damage to enemies based on that enemies element. If you have a water enchantment you do more damage to fire creatures and so on.
This would all mainly pertain to any archetype selecting mage/cleric/necromancer as their secondary.
Environmental Lighting utility spells and abilities
Casters being able to lit dark caverns and caves.
Warriors who pick up mages as their secondary being able to augment their sword with the elements, using that as a torch
rangers that can fire a light/fire/lightning arrow in the distance to light up the dark areas.
Camping should be an utility kill to reset long gcds out of combat after a large fight pvp fight. Nothing worse than winning a great field fight only to get ambushed while all your CDs are down.
You could even add class/profession based abilities and items to enhance camps. Things like hiding them and that sort of thing.
Summon Screen Spiders
Summons a bunch of cute spiders to crawl all over the screen of the target player, providing them with free exposure therapy for arachnophobia.
Perhaps a different take is to summon a friendly AI to talk to if you're lonely, and through upgrading the skill, also make it a friendly therapist you can talk to about your day and life in general!
I kid of course But I don't think we should be able to summon other players outside the family system.
For Combat :
I like when different ppl bring different buffs to the group. For example a warrior brings a dmg buff, a healer brings a max hp buff or hp reg buff, tank brings resistance buff, ranger brings a crit chance buff and assassin a crit dmg buff etc. this way everyone can make the group stronger passivly. Eso is a good example for this but instead of just having this class provides this buff it would be cool if different skill progressions give u different buffs or augments provide different buffs etc. That way a warrior for example can provide either attack speed or lifesteal or armorpen depending on build and a tank can for example give physical resistance magic resistance or increased recieved healing.
Appart from buffs and debuffs id consider stunns, gapclosers and executes as utilitys.
For gapclosers i think its important to consider height aswell. Often you can only gapclose someone at your height or below you but not someone on a cliff above you for example. While for some cliffs that makes sense and addds an interesting aspect of tactics for some it just seems stupid and kind of breaks immersion with you class. For example a teleport gapclose should definitly be able to go up a cliff if the target is in range. While beaing at it a utility skill that allows you to climb high cliffs would be cool like a grappling hook skill that u get for equiping a grappling hook.
In general i think it would be cool for combat when some epic or legendary gears have active skills. If you ask me those could be quite powerfull too. For example a Legendary Sword from carphin with an active that gives you 100% lifesteal for 10 Seconds with a 1 min cooldown.
These should be rare and recognizable ofc.
A legendary Cape that gives you 10sec invis as an active for example could be cool too.and would really allow creative build where gear is more than just stats and passive effects.
I also think legendary mounts and maybe even pets could be utilitys aswell. so that u can rly speciallice on playing a cavalry soldier and fighting on your mount. For that sake it would be cool if some skills that make sense could be yoused from mount back like snipe or volley and stuff like that. Skills like the jumping one from ranger could be a quick way to hop of your mount.
Im not sure how well this works with balancing tho it shouldnt be to the point where you have to be cavalry to be effective. It should be an option that is possible but has negatives like drawbacks when your not on mount back etc. and there should be ways to knock ppl off the horse that can be also evaded by skilled rider so its skill dependend who wins in cav vs non cav.
For non combat :
Religion should have active skills for example as a bishop giving buffs that fit to the religion.
Classes/ builds with a companion say a hawk or golem or whatever could have non combat utilitys. Like letting your hawk hunt small animals or letting a golem connect to the essence and guide you to ores close to you.
It would be cool if for pvp like sieges or attacks on smaller settlements would not show up immidiatly on the map so only the ppl that know of it know of it at first but the defenders can send a letter to neighbouring nodes. When these letter arrives al citicens of that node will see on their map that the node is attacked atm and can decide to go help either side. Ofc they dont have to wait for the letter if the nodes have good communication they can prepare the defense together.
For that it would be cool if a bird pet for example has a utility skill where you can send a letter to the nearest node mid combat.
Utility skills for caravans would be cool too like a bard singing a song while travveling imporving travel speed or a cleric blessing the chart giving extra protection.
I dont have a clear image of watercombat in ashes yet or if it even will be a thing but water specific utilitys would be cool too so someone can make a water focussed build that sucks on land but is a nightmare to ship merchants.
One thing i havent seen mentioned are wards.
An ability that gives you intel about other player´s location on the mini map.
The summoner would be a good candidate for that one. I´d imagine the summons to have different type of commands or modes, like aggressive, passive, peacefull, and so on. Maybe add a ward command here.
What utility skills do you feel are most important? Are there certain scenarios that should require specific ones?
A lot of solid ideas from the posts in the community!
I am a fan of each Archetype having a "utility" skill attached, as long as this does not completely alter gameplay/combat against other players. Main goal for utility skills is for fun or to produce small base archetype fantasy.
Some examples that come to mind: Bard - Joy Buff duration 5mins (1 hour cd). Bard plays a song to a player. Player is filled with Joy which decreases cost of food/drink in a Tavern by 5%
Cleric - Connection to the gods (passive). Cleric has a 50% reduced penalty (player's previous religion) when changing to a different religion
Fighter - Ally to the Blade (passive). Increases your proficiency in Weapon Smithing by 5 skill points.
Mage - Teleport (1 hour cd). This would be for the Mage ONLY (no group portal). I am not sure if AoC plans to implement a return to INN or Sanctuary baseline for all players. My thought is if that is planned, then the Mage utility would an additional Teleport that is separate from the baseline CD. This could also be set at a different INN.
Ranger - Attunement to the Wild (passive). Increases your proficiency in Hunting by 5 skill points.
Rogue - Pickpocketing, yes I am going with the crew here. Fun ability to have and can add some risk/reward. Nothing too OP.
Summoner - Summon x1 player (1 hour cd) which requires 2 other players. I think having this as a 1 time longer CD provides some fun. I will remember those times where a player may DC or need to AFK and having this utility skill in the back pocket is a nice perk. Being able to summon players/party on demand is a bit much.
Tank - Courage Buff duration 5 mins (1 hour cd). Self buff when applied prevents player from being dismounted or dazed. Could be fun to have when attempting to run through a higher level area in a rush.
Mobility Enhancers (climbing, water walking, feather fall, double jump, freedom of movement cd, faster swimming speed, faster speed while out of combat, blink)
Information gathering (tracking resources and creatures, scrying, eagle vision, ascertain any sort of information about a creature)
Defensive (threat reducer, lower agro range, shields, stealth, invisibility, slows, sanctuary (cannot be attacked while not attacking)
I think that it is most important to establish a criteria to evaluate whether the negative features of any particular utility skill outweighs the perceived benefit or additional flexibility offered by the utility.
Aspects to consider include:
1) Will the inclusion of a Utility skill lead to resentment of one class over another due to an imbalance between the utility offered and the power gains in content/combat or additional access to content that it offers? This should be avoided.
2) Do the utility skills begin to make all classes feel the same thereby reducing the benefit of class diversity? Each class should bring something special to content, and utility skills should enhance this distinctiveness rather than homogenize the experience. (for example, all classes shouldn't have a teleportation ability, perhaps a Mage can teleport individuals or a group and a Summoner might be able to summon a portal to teleport individuals or group members.)
3) Does the introduction of certain utility skills, particularly those that benefit a group, create situations that where that utility is mandatory for group success. Group utility should generally enhance diversity rather than dictate party composition. There should be only limited scenarios, approached with a high degree of thoughtfulness, where key utilities are critical for group success. (For example, if a Bard's buffs are absolutely required to push DPS to a point where it is feasible for a group to kill a boss, then this would create frustration for groups that do not have access to that class-type).
4) Do particular utility skills overly disrupt the balance of PvP encounters? For example, particular mobility skills like stealth, sprint, and teleportation can create power imbalances that can be difficult to counter for less mobile classes. When incorporating such skills, they should be given careful thought as to cooldowns, frequency of use and what skills are specifically included to counter them. This will prevent such skills from dominating gameplay..
5) Does the inclusion of the utility skill detract from the immersive nature of the fantasy game? Straying too far from class fantasy can lead to a loss of immersion. (For example, players flying overhead seemingly self-propelled)
6) Will the inclusion of a particular Utility skill limit gameplay options or force a certain playstyle? Such inclusion will detract from the player experience. Skill Floor and Skill Ceiling:
7) Does the utility skill have a reasonable skill floor, meaning it is accessible and usable by players at various skill levels? Does it have a skill ceiling that allows skilled players to leverage it more effectively but not to the point of being overpowered?
8) Does the utility skill interact poorly with current resource management systems? It needs to be well-understood the impact that a utility skill has on a player's overall resource pool to prevent spamming or overreliance on the utility while also ensuring that the skill itself isn't too costly to be effective.
9) Does the utility skill provide meaningful player agency? Players should generally feel in control of their playstyle and their decisions, including the use of utility skills. Utility skills that automate too much or make players feel disengaged should be avoided.
10) Would you expect high development complexity and ongoing maintenance costs associated with incorporating the utility skill into the game design. These costs should be weighted against the perceived benefits to ensure a reasonable investment for the development team.
11) For each additional utility skill, is there an feasible system for collecting data and monitoring usage during testing phases and after release to enable iterative adjustments based on actual gameplay and ensures that that actual data is being used to refine the utility skills over time? This should not be solely reliant on submitted player feedback as such feedback may be biased or misleading given class balances.
Utility skills are odd because they can build up resentment in players. A class can feel their 'utility' is less then other classes, or if there are classes that are meant for utility then those classes can feel they've been balanced to be underpowered to account for non-combat utility.
Either way, I don't think you should give every class utility, and the best way is to just give utility abilities when it makes sense, even if it results in some classes having no utility.
Utility skills that make sense to me are:
- runspeed (always in release and then nerfed post-release, but everyone loves running fast... leave it in).
- lockpicking should be a universal skill not tied to rogues
- safe fall (it's fun)
- light (after turning night more dark this will be a must)
- stealth detection
Thinking about it abilities that grant utility to the group should be avoided I think (except for bards). So no granting group stealth or group stealth detection. It's something that sounds good, but in practice it becomes bring x class instead of making each class play differently. Utility is a way to make each class play differently.
AoC isnt a singleplayer experience with coop instanced raids and BG pvp.
This means that there is no tank, dps, healer meta that only matters in a sterilized instanced environment, nor there is a 4man/8man group combo to beat the same team v team settup found in instances.
There is open world pvp
Raid contest
Cargo transfer
Wealth generation
Leveling and faction progress and many more scenarios that are a lot more complicated than the stagnant gameplay that most mmos offer today due to no owpvp.
This means that people dont feel compelled to fill the narrow meta requirements for narrow gameplay options.
You can play a class/weapon combo that will excell in one aspect (perhaps 1v1) and suck and many other tasks. You will still enjoy your playstyle and some thought-out utility addition will be available without the fear of meta results.
I'm not seeing your point. I've played lots of MMOs with all those features, and nothing about them changes anything about what I said.
Personally, I feel like utility skills are extremely important in creating diversity amongst different classes.
This can be seen in many games, such as Thief having "Treasure Hunter" utility skills to increase drop rate percentages, bards' movement speed increases, Black Mage warping back to home point, or other mages being able to teleport people to other towns and so on.
Especially in a game setting with no "fast travel," any kind of buff or advantage a specific class can provide with this in mind, will become huge assets and motivation for people to level those classes.
Job classes need to have unique individuality that benefits others or themselves both in and outside of combat because not everything about the game revolves around combat.
Some classes just need to have special utility skills over all other classes. Sorry, but not everything has to be "fair and equal." That's life.
What utility skills do you feel are most important?
I'd like Archtypes to each have their own unique utility skills, but a doubled-down Archtype should also have access to a specific skill no other class combination has. These unique Archtype skills, and doubled-down specific skills could be augmented within the Utility Tree, and/or Skill Tree. Examples of this could be:
Ex.1 Mage Archtype unique Utility skill, Mana Storm:
-Engulfs the friendly target or self within a Mana Storm, regains X-MP/Sec for X/Sec,
target is immune to Silence while under the effects of Mana Storm.
Ex.2 ArchWizard specific Utility skill, Mana Seal:
(Channeled Spell, costs caster X-MP/Sec to maintain Seal)
-Caster enters a trance, phases out of existence, and cannot move.
All friendly players within the Mana Seal diagram gain X-MP/Sec,
are immune to Silence, and gain 3% Magic resistance/Sec, stacking, up to 33%.
Are there certain scenarios that should require specific ones?
Yes! Absolutely and without question, Yes!
Comments
Open World PvP will always have disparities in group size and composition.
IMO the greater enjoyment comes in implementations that included mechanics by which a group, given sufficient forewarning and time, can effectively survive or effect an attack.
Perhaps the most successful was EVE Online, which provided a myriad of opportunities for surprise engagement or escape. (warping to bookmarks, gate or station camping, techniques for warp prevention, drag bubble, etc) Some are via abilities of specific "classes", some are available via specific items.
Yes, I realize AoC is not scifi themed, but hopefully it sparks some ideas.
ESO provides one playful example, namely the "Forward Camp" item, allowing fallen allies to quickly respawn together as the camp goes up, within range restrictions.
I would lean towards providing such mechanics via Utility Skills, since then any group would have access. But hey, a few class specialty skills could be very cool.
Maybe Ashes of Creation can break new ground as pertains to PvP mobility.
Moreover, it could provide some striking areas of expansion with new ideas in the future (ie: it need not all have been invented or imagined at launch).
May AoC Rock the MMORPG World !
LFG: Open World, tight knit coordination, multiple roles, will travel.
I wanted to highlight your comment because I've noticed that "group buffs" seem largely absent from the various Archetypes as previewed for Alpha 2. Such skills are generally intrinsic to group composition in a lot of excellent PvP MMOs; caveat on OP.
Although maybe only a few should be available via "Utility" skills.
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LFG: Open World, tight knit coordination, multiple roles, will travel.
On a totally separate track, I always loved the games that gave mages or enchanters an entire spell book of combat useless but super utility friendly spells. Things like walk on water, breathe underwater, increases to fishing or other profession xp gain, hide identity, disguise, transmute, provide light, etc... super fun to have in the spellbook and for general RP.
Taking a page from more modern games, more combat relevant utility spells like speed/stamina/strength boost, mana/health regen boost, spell dmg / melee dmg boost, boost to any type of resistance, thorn skin, etc are all really valuable and could be spread amonogst classes to give them all a little utility bump (though I always get really annoyed when Rangers only buff is speed and nature resistance like we get it already -_-)
Additionally, I am really excited by the naval, pvp, and bounty prospects in Ashes as well as the breadth of professions (and nodes and caravans! so basically all the systems!!!). Any utility skill that interacts with those things would be super valuable to me and continue to add to the immersion of this game. Shipbuilding, ship efficacy, caravan efficacy, etc.. I know there are crafting systems in place that will effect these things but it would be cool to see the players actually spec as professions like merchant and sailor, etc.
Bounty system am really interested in how this system gets fleshed out. Who/how these can be tracked, what the rewards and insentives will be and how those things can be played with. But I am also very pro-PVP and would love to see a system that makes it challenging to find said Bounties. Being able to disguise yourself, hide your inventory, hide your level or gear stats, etc... so useful and I think all fall under the Utility category depending on your play style and the systems you choose to interact with. There's nothing worse than a game that offers PVP as an avenue and then massively penalizes players who want to explore it and sets up tons of avenues for players to find and kill "wanted" targets without providing any utility for those of us that want to play as outlaws.
Love the work you all are doing, can't wait to discover Vera!
I like the idea that your speed is influenced by your encumbrance
But also like the idea that if you choose a solid/heavy class your movement speed is slowed down and if you choose a lighter more nimble your run speed might be higher and then balance that against your character encumbrance at the character design stage and when geared up and laden.
Spell: Dispell/Detect/Imbue
Examples: Changes between classes, races, and sometimes both are required to achieve an advanced form of Dispell, Detect, or Imbue.
Dispell Illusion, Detect Magic, Imbue with Magic or Element by Type @ Proficiency of Caster, Detect Stealth, Magical Invisibility, Dispell Curse, Dispell Simple Arcana, Dispell Totem, Summon Totem, Imbue Totem
That being said, I believe that given the wide variety of utility skills that there are, that different classes should have different utility, based on each class motif. Though, some utility skills being offered based on the religion of the character would be nice.
What utility skills do you feel are most important? Are there certain scenarios that should require specific ones?[/quote]
Tracking skills, for example:
- Animal/Creature tracking for Ranger
- Elemental/Magic Creature tracking for Mage
- Undead tracking for Cleric
- Ship tracking and Wind/Navigation aids for a highly skilled sea captain
- Resource tracking for gathering classes
Navigation skills, for example:
- Teleport for Mage
- Climbing for Rogue
Otherwise it depends on how DnD like the game becomes. Detect Trap, Lock Pick, Secret Doors etc, if that is applicable
I like your list, except for "Dwarf Toss"
It should be "Dwarf Punt", or we should have the option to upgrade "Toss" for better range.
Jump puzzles are something that frustrate me but they add a challenge, allowing utility abilities such as Spider Climb so you can walk on walls or ceiling for a short amount of time, or an ability to summon a short lived Wall that you can use as a platform if your quick enough would be fantastic. Also then the Wall conjuring can be used to crowd control and utility ( no one said it could only have one use )
If they are going to have flying Mounts or gliders or any of that then I don't see why they couldn't have some sort of Levitation abilities so you could get to ledges and hidden spots, and on the other side of that FeatherFall is a staple to use.
Utility abilities that let you lock pick boxes, doors, and possibly even vehicles/caravans. The Smugglers ability to slice/lockpick boxes in SWG that couldn't be opened any other way created its own social and economic venture. As long as they stayed away from the microtransaction of selling keys I think it's perfectly viable to have utility skills or spells that revolve around opening stuff that can't be accessed any other way.
Having the ability to change the make up, hair, and other things about another character is a good utility ability. Instead of going to some NPC barber you go to another players beauty shop and work with them to change up your characters designs, they gain skills and thus unlock new designs to pick from. You could also allow them to temporarily hide or change player Name Plates, such as using an illusion to give a False Name, Level, Class or so on for a limited amount of time, which could be detected by higher levels Detection abilities.
Just some ideas that I've seen from previous generations that for some unknown reason died off and would make a huge splash in current era games.
I don't mean to imply that Rangers should all just be Spider-Man, but having more unique feeling forms of movement and traversal across the 8 base archetypes is something I think works well in establishing AND respecting class fantasy. I think exploring new options (even if on paper they might sound goofy) is a good start to pushing the boundaries other MMOs have set where utility is typically just a teleport or just another extension of combat again.
Amazing work so far! 2024 is looking like a big one for Intrepid
Q) What utility skills do you feel are most important? Are there certain scenarios that should require specific ones?
- It's enjoyable when utility abilities can also benefit a party. For example a teleport that can transport more people when they are near the caster or opt-in to join the teleport.
- Climbing surfaces to a reasonable degree so you can get to vantage points more easily
- If a mage teleport is allowed to be a point and click teleport instead of x distance in the direction you're moving
- A tracking/detection skill for rogue or ranger
- Effective disguises for PvP to blend into the environment/npc crowd
- Have the class specific utility skills be powerful enough to become a consideration when forming a party
- Dodge rolling
- Being able to shed targeting and prevent retargeting for x amount of seconds
- A utility skill that lets you ignore player/monster collision
- A skill that allows you to have increased movement when moving towards enemies
- Being able to tether yourself to a teammate to share buffs, partially tank damage and/or empower each other through teamwork
- Being able to draw on the map/set down map pins, and save or share these with the guild and party. Perhaps as a scribe perk.
- AoE stealth. Stealth yourself and nearby allies in a radius
- The mana donation skill from mage in the alpha was a nice teamwork utility skill. Keeping your healer topped up to provide healing since mage could have higher mana regen.
- Having old-school plain +hp/hp stat, +healing received, barrier or boost movement speed buffs. And having these buffs last between 30-60m. It was extremely fun selling buffing services as a Ringmaster in Flyff.
- The cleric whip in A1 that granted mana/health and stamina regen was a fun utility skill as well
- A "buff bar" which functions like a hotbar but for buffs. It can autocast them all 1 by 1 with the press of a single button.
- No reagents for casted buffs pls. Becomes a chore, takes up bag space and will be a financial burden ingame compared to other classes that don't have to buff people.
- Mix damage and utility. Have a shield that can be popped for damage, but the more HP the shield has the more dmg it does.
Either way, I don't think you should give every class utility, and the best way is to just give utility abilities when it makes sense, even if it results in some classes having no utility.
Utility skills that make sense to me are:
- runspeed (always in release and then nerfed post-release, but everyone loves running fast... leave it in).
- lockpicking should be a universal skill not tied to rogues
- safe fall (it's fun)
- light (after turning night more dark this will be a must)
- stealth detection
Thinking about it abilities that grant utility to the group should be avoided I think (except for bards). So no granting group stealth or group stealth detection. It's something that sounds good, but in practice it becomes bring x class instead of making each class play differently. Utility is a way to make each class play differently.
Can it be seen and/or accepted, that it might be an Utility-Skill - > to use a bush or several bushes in Nature, to hide inside or behind it ?
I think i read already that "the Environment" will be able to block the Sight of one's Character and/or Character-"Name" over the Head,
but when Utility-Skills is interacting with the Environment in special Ways - like for Example climbing over the City-Wall of a Node as a means to sneak inside, as a Person of an "Enemy Node" for Example in Times of War,
can Utility Skills also being used for Stealth, in some limited ways ?
The Possibility is kinda important for me - and i am not even planning to play a Rogue.
OK, a simple "utility" example to illustrate the concept of survival against larger groups in hostile PvP environment.
Suppose you have two utility structures that can be constructed (given requisite skills and mats): (1) Ladder, (2) Bridge.
Ladder or Bridge could be set up shortly before an engagement, say to take out a caravan where, although the engagement can succeed, one or more hostile large groups are near enough to make escape unlikely (how often I've seen chases across entire maps). And yet, having prepped an escape route via ladder or bridge in advance, those few seconds are enough to get the escapees out of reach.
Moreover, these obstacle conquering utilities might be:
(a) destructible by "owner(s)", sending close pursuers to their deaths and cutting off the rest, or (b) be so narrow as to force single file passage, so although a large group might still succeed in pursuit, such a pursuit could prove costly as the defenders can better focus their firepower against the single file.
Given the diverse terrain and verticality in Ashes, simple "utilities" along these lines could expand tactical possibilities manyfold, rewarding skill and ingenuity when combating larger groups.
LFG: Open World, tight knit coordination, multiple roles, will travel.
AoC isnt a singleplayer experience with coop instanced raids and BG pvp.
This means that there is no tank, dps, healer meta that only matters in a sterilized instanced environment, nor there is a 4man/8man group combo to beat the same team v team settup found in instances.
There is open world pvp
Raid contest
Cargo transfer
Wealth generation
Leveling and faction progress and many more scenarios that are a lot more complicated than the stagnant gameplay that most mmos offer today due to no owpvp.
This means that people dont feel compelled to fill the narrow meta requirements for narrow gameplay options.
You can play a class/weapon combo that will excell in one aspect (perhaps 1v1) and suck and many other tasks. You will still enjoy your playstyle and some thought-out utility addition will be available without the fear of meta results.
Perhaps a mage with scribing could create a grimoire that would allow 1 party member access to 1 spell they normally wouldn't have access to.
Could make for some interesting class synergies or unique role in a group if combined with other utility skills/items.
Elemental Augmentations on weapons based on class.
Fire Arrows, Light Arrows, Ice Arrows, Enchant Sword Fire, Enchant Sword Ice, Enchant Sword Air, Imbue Armor Stone, Imbue Armor Lightning, Imbue Armor Ice, Etc..
One thing I loved from a super older Korean grinder called FlyFF was that you could enchant your weapons with elemental damage which would do more damage to enemies based on that enemies element. If you have a water enchantment you do more damage to fire creatures and so on.
This would all mainly pertain to any archetype selecting mage/cleric/necromancer as their secondary.
Environmental Lighting utility spells and abilities
Casters being able to lit dark caverns and caves.
Warriors who pick up mages as their secondary being able to augment their sword with the elements, using that as a torch
rangers that can fire a light/fire/lightning arrow in the distance to light up the dark areas.
You could even add class/profession based abilities and items to enhance camps. Things like hiding them and that sort of thing.
Nice
Perhaps a different take is to summon a friendly AI to talk to if you're lonely, and through upgrading the skill, also make it a friendly therapist you can talk to about your day and life in general!
I kid of course
I like when different ppl bring different buffs to the group. For example a warrior brings a dmg buff, a healer brings a max hp buff or hp reg buff, tank brings resistance buff, ranger brings a crit chance buff and assassin a crit dmg buff etc. this way everyone can make the group stronger passivly. Eso is a good example for this but instead of just having this class provides this buff it would be cool if different skill progressions give u different buffs or augments provide different buffs etc. That way a warrior for example can provide either attack speed or lifesteal or armorpen depending on build and a tank can for example give physical resistance magic resistance or increased recieved healing.
Appart from buffs and debuffs id consider stunns, gapclosers and executes as utilitys.
For gapclosers i think its important to consider height aswell. Often you can only gapclose someone at your height or below you but not someone on a cliff above you for example. While for some cliffs that makes sense and addds an interesting aspect of tactics for some it just seems stupid and kind of breaks immersion with you class. For example a teleport gapclose should definitly be able to go up a cliff if the target is in range. While beaing at it a utility skill that allows you to climb high cliffs would be cool like a grappling hook skill that u get for equiping a grappling hook.
In general i think it would be cool for combat when some epic or legendary gears have active skills. If you ask me those could be quite powerfull too. For example a Legendary Sword from carphin with an active that gives you 100% lifesteal for 10 Seconds with a 1 min cooldown.
These should be rare and recognizable ofc.
A legendary Cape that gives you 10sec invis as an active for example could be cool too.and would really allow creative build where gear is more than just stats and passive effects.
I also think legendary mounts and maybe even pets could be utilitys aswell. so that u can rly speciallice on playing a cavalry soldier and fighting on your mount. For that sake it would be cool if some skills that make sense could be yoused from mount back like snipe or volley and stuff like that. Skills like the jumping one from ranger could be a quick way to hop of your mount.
Im not sure how well this works with balancing tho it shouldnt be to the point where you have to be cavalry to be effective. It should be an option that is possible but has negatives like drawbacks when your not on mount back etc. and there should be ways to knock ppl off the horse that can be also evaded by skilled rider so its skill dependend who wins in cav vs non cav.
For non combat :
Religion should have active skills for example as a bishop giving buffs that fit to the religion.
Classes/ builds with a companion say a hawk or golem or whatever could have non combat utilitys. Like letting your hawk hunt small animals or letting a golem connect to the essence and guide you to ores close to you.
It would be cool if for pvp like sieges or attacks on smaller settlements would not show up immidiatly on the map so only the ppl that know of it know of it at first but the defenders can send a letter to neighbouring nodes. When these letter arrives al citicens of that node will see on their map that the node is attacked atm and can decide to go help either side. Ofc they dont have to wait for the letter if the nodes have good communication they can prepare the defense together.
For that it would be cool if a bird pet for example has a utility skill where you can send a letter to the nearest node mid combat.
Utility skills for caravans would be cool too like a bard singing a song while travveling imporving travel speed or a cleric blessing the chart giving extra protection.
I dont have a clear image of watercombat in ashes yet or if it even will be a thing but water specific utilitys would be cool too so someone can make a water focussed build that sucks on land but is a nightmare to ship merchants.
An ability that gives you intel about other player´s location on the mini map.
The summoner would be a good candidate for that one. I´d imagine the summons to have different type of commands or modes, like aggressive, passive, peacefull, and so on. Maybe add a ward command here.
A lot of solid ideas from the posts in the community!
I am a fan of each Archetype having a "utility" skill attached, as long as this does not completely alter gameplay/combat against other players. Main goal for utility skills is for fun or to produce small base archetype fantasy.
Some examples that come to mind:
Bard - Joy Buff duration 5mins (1 hour cd). Bard plays a song to a player. Player is filled with Joy which decreases cost of food/drink in a Tavern by 5%
Cleric - Connection to the gods (passive). Cleric has a 50% reduced penalty (player's previous religion) when changing to a different religion
Fighter - Ally to the Blade (passive). Increases your proficiency in Weapon Smithing by 5 skill points.
Mage - Teleport (1 hour cd). This would be for the Mage ONLY (no group portal). I am not sure if AoC plans to implement a return to INN or Sanctuary baseline for all players. My thought is if that is planned, then the Mage utility would an additional Teleport that is separate from the baseline CD. This could also be set at a different INN.
Ranger - Attunement to the Wild (passive). Increases your proficiency in Hunting by 5 skill points.
Rogue - Pickpocketing, yes I am going with the crew here. Fun ability to have and can add some risk/reward. Nothing too OP.
Summoner - Summon x1 player (1 hour cd) which requires 2 other players. I think having this as a 1 time longer CD provides some fun. I will remember those times where a player may DC or need to AFK and having this utility skill in the back pocket is a nice perk. Being able to summon players/party on demand is a bit much.
Tank - Courage Buff duration 5 mins (1 hour cd). Self buff when applied prevents player from being dismounted or dazed. Could be fun to have when attempting to run through a higher level area in a rush.
Information gathering (tracking resources and creatures, scrying, eagle vision, ascertain any sort of information about a creature)
Defensive (threat reducer, lower agro range, shields, stealth, invisibility, slows, sanctuary (cannot be attacked while not attacking)
Enhanced traits (buffs last longer, greater breath, reputation gains, vendor discount, faster gathering)
Aspects to consider include:
1) Will the inclusion of a Utility skill lead to resentment of one class over another due to an imbalance between the utility offered and the power gains in content/combat or additional access to content that it offers? This should be avoided.
2) Do the utility skills begin to make all classes feel the same thereby reducing the benefit of class diversity? Each class should bring something special to content, and utility skills should enhance this distinctiveness rather than homogenize the experience. (for example, all classes shouldn't have a teleportation ability, perhaps a Mage can teleport individuals or a group and a Summoner might be able to summon a portal to teleport individuals or group members.)
3) Does the introduction of certain utility skills, particularly those that benefit a group, create situations that where that utility is mandatory for group success. Group utility should generally enhance diversity rather than dictate party composition. There should be only limited scenarios, approached with a high degree of thoughtfulness, where key utilities are critical for group success. (For example, if a Bard's buffs are absolutely required to push DPS to a point where it is feasible for a group to kill a boss, then this would create frustration for groups that do not have access to that class-type).
4) Do particular utility skills overly disrupt the balance of PvP encounters? For example, particular mobility skills like stealth, sprint, and teleportation can create power imbalances that can be difficult to counter for less mobile classes. When incorporating such skills, they should be given careful thought as to cooldowns, frequency of use and what skills are specifically included to counter them. This will prevent such skills from dominating gameplay..
5) Does the inclusion of the utility skill detract from the immersive nature of the fantasy game? Straying too far from class fantasy can lead to a loss of immersion. (For example, players flying overhead seemingly self-propelled)
6) Will the inclusion of a particular Utility skill limit gameplay options or force a certain playstyle? Such inclusion will detract from the player experience. Skill Floor and Skill Ceiling:
7) Does the utility skill have a reasonable skill floor, meaning it is accessible and usable by players at various skill levels? Does it have a skill ceiling that allows skilled players to leverage it more effectively but not to the point of being overpowered?
8) Does the utility skill interact poorly with current resource management systems? It needs to be well-understood the impact that a utility skill has on a player's overall resource pool to prevent spamming or overreliance on the utility while also ensuring that the skill itself isn't too costly to be effective.
9) Does the utility skill provide meaningful player agency? Players should generally feel in control of their playstyle and their decisions, including the use of utility skills. Utility skills that automate too much or make players feel disengaged should be avoided.
10) Would you expect high development complexity and ongoing maintenance costs associated with incorporating the utility skill into the game design. These costs should be weighted against the perceived benefits to ensure a reasonable investment for the development team.
11) For each additional utility skill, is there an feasible system for collecting data and monitoring usage during testing phases and after release to enable iterative adjustments based on actual gameplay and ensures that that actual data is being used to refine the utility skills over time? This should not be solely reliant on submitted player feedback as such feedback may be biased or misleading given class balances.
I'm not seeing your point. I've played lots of MMOs with all those features, and nothing about them changes anything about what I said.
This can be seen in many games, such as Thief having "Treasure Hunter" utility skills to increase drop rate percentages, bards' movement speed increases, Black Mage warping back to home point, or other mages being able to teleport people to other towns and so on.
Especially in a game setting with no "fast travel," any kind of buff or advantage a specific class can provide with this in mind, will become huge assets and motivation for people to level those classes.
Job classes need to have unique individuality that benefits others or themselves both in and outside of combat because not everything about the game revolves around combat.
Some classes just need to have special utility skills over all other classes. Sorry, but not everything has to be "fair and equal." That's life.
I'd like Archtypes to each have their own unique utility skills, but a doubled-down Archtype should also have access to a specific skill no other class combination has. These unique Archtype skills, and doubled-down specific skills could be augmented within the Utility Tree, and/or Skill Tree. Examples of this could be:
Ex.1 Mage Archtype unique Utility skill, Mana Storm:
-Engulfs the friendly target or self within a Mana Storm, regains X-MP/Sec for X/Sec,
target is immune to Silence while under the effects of Mana Storm.
Ex.2 ArchWizard specific Utility skill, Mana Seal:
(Channeled Spell, costs caster X-MP/Sec to maintain Seal)
-Caster enters a trance, phases out of existence, and cannot move.
All friendly players within the Mana Seal diagram gain X-MP/Sec,
are immune to Silence, and gain 3% Magic resistance/Sec, stacking, up to 33%.
Are there certain scenarios that should require specific ones?
Yes! Absolutely and without question, Yes!