Veeshan wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Veeshan wrote: » You could socialise with PvP company and pay them to keep watch or cut them in for a chance of a drop and let them keep guard while you do the bosses You absolutely could. However, I've yet to meet any PvP focused guilds I would trust enough for this. Generaly most pvp guild wont fuck you over unless they have a grudge aslong as the agreements are held up with pay or what not. Like if you screw somone over in a deal for protection your pretty much never gonna be hired again so you fk urself for a single gain where u can keep a good thing going it beter for both sides
Noaani wrote: » Veeshan wrote: » You could socialise with PvP company and pay them to keep watch or cut them in for a chance of a drop and let them keep guard while you do the bosses You absolutely could. However, I've yet to meet any PvP focused guilds I would trust enough for this.
Veeshan wrote: » You could socialise with PvP company and pay them to keep watch or cut them in for a chance of a drop and let them keep guard while you do the bosses
Depraved wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Depraved wrote: » what if all the dps don't have a build option for survivability? or mobility, etc. They will. They may not all have available builds to make mobility the main aspect of the build, or to have survivability to the point of being a tank, but they will all have the ability to add to these factors. Please note, I am specifically saying "they will" in the absolute. I am not saying "they may", or "they probably will". They outright will. that depends on thee game...
Noaani wrote: » Depraved wrote: » what if all the dps don't have a build option for survivability? or mobility, etc. They will. They may not all have available builds to make mobility the main aspect of the build, or to have survivability to the point of being a tank, but they will all have the ability to add to these factors. Please note, I am specifically saying "they will" in the absolute. I am not saying "they may", or "they probably will". They outright will.
Depraved wrote: » what if all the dps don't have a build option for survivability? or mobility, etc.
Noaani wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Depraved wrote: » what if all the dps don't have a build option for survivability? or mobility, etc. They will. They may not all have available builds to make mobility the main aspect of the build, or to have survivability to the point of being a tank, but they will all have the ability to add to these factors. Please note, I am specifically saying "they will" in the absolute. I am not saying "they may", or "they probably will". They outright will. that depends on thee game... Well, I'm talking about this game.
Depraved wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Depraved wrote: » what if all the dps don't have a build option for survivability? or mobility, etc. They will. They may not all have available builds to make mobility the main aspect of the build, or to have survivability to the point of being a tank, but they will all have the ability to add to these factors. Please note, I am specifically saying "they will" in the absolute. I am not saying "they may", or "they probably will". They outright will. that depends on thee game... Well, I'm talking about this game. bruh we literally haven't seen all the skills, augments, gear, all the builds someone can have. i didn't know you had a crystal ball lol.
HughJardon wrote: » Veeshan wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Veeshan wrote: » You could socialise with PvP company and pay them to keep watch or cut them in for a chance of a drop and let them keep guard while you do the bosses You absolutely could. However, I've yet to meet any PvP focused guilds I would trust enough for this. Generaly most pvp guild wont fuck you over unless they have a grudge aslong as the agreements are held up with pay or what not. Like if you screw somone over in a deal for protection your pretty much never gonna be hired again so you fk urself for a single gain where u can keep a good thing going it beter for both sides Even pvp guilds need allies and suppliers.
Veeshan wrote: » HughJardon wrote: » Veeshan wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Veeshan wrote: » You could socialise with PvP company and pay them to keep watch or cut them in for a chance of a drop and let them keep guard while you do the bosses You absolutely could. However, I've yet to meet any PvP focused guilds I would trust enough for this. Generaly most pvp guild wont fuck you over unless they have a grudge aslong as the agreements are held up with pay or what not. Like if you screw somone over in a deal for protection your pretty much never gonna be hired again so you fk urself for a single gain where u can keep a good thing going it beter for both sides Even pvp guilds need allies and suppliers. yep which can be supplied by PvE players in return for other arrangements
Noaani wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Depraved wrote: » what if all the dps don't have a build option for survivability? or mobility, etc. They will. They may not all have available builds to make mobility the main aspect of the build, or to have survivability to the point of being a tank, but they will all have the ability to add to these factors. Please note, I am specifically saying "they will" in the absolute. I am not saying "they may", or "they probably will". They outright will. that depends on thee game... Well, I'm talking about this game. bruh we literally haven't seen all the skills, augments, gear, all the builds someone can have. i didn't know you had a crystal ball lol. I don't. I just have a basic understanding of game mechanics and development. Let's take mages for example. We know they can spec DPS. if we want survivability, I'm fairly sure taking tank as secondary will accomplish that. For mobility, we already have blink we can spec in to, so we know there is at least some scope to spec some mobility. On top of that, we will likely have a number of spells we can cast on the move, which in itself makes mages more mobile. Failing that, if we need more mobility, we could just spec in to only fast casting spells - as even something as basic as this functions as an increase in mobility, if an increase in mobility is needed. As for if we need more CC im fairly sure taking bard or summoner secondary would allow a mage to occupy a target for an amount of time. Where I think you perhaps went wrong in your assumption is in thinking something like a "mobility" spec for a mage needs to be on par with a mobility spec for a fighter, ranger or rogue. It doesn't - it just needs to allow for more mobility for said mage than a basic DPS spec allows for. Same with a CC spec - it doesn't mean that needs to make CC the main focus, it just means that you take some additional CC over what you would have in your regular build. With this in mind, the notion that there won't be ways for every class to spec a little more in to almost any aspect of the game seems incredibly unlikely. And that is without needing a crystal ball.
Depraved wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Depraved wrote: » what if all the dps don't have a build option for survivability? or mobility, etc. They will. They may not all have available builds to make mobility the main aspect of the build, or to have survivability to the point of being a tank, but they will all have the ability to add to these factors. Please note, I am specifically saying "they will" in the absolute. I am not saying "they may", or "they probably will". They outright will. that depends on thee game... Well, I'm talking about this game. bruh we literally haven't seen all the skills, augments, gear, all the builds someone can have. i didn't know you had a crystal ball lol. I don't. I just have a basic understanding of game mechanics and development. Let's take mages for example. We know they can spec DPS. if we want survivability, I'm fairly sure taking tank as secondary will accomplish that. For mobility, we already have blink we can spec in to, so we know there is at least some scope to spec some mobility. On top of that, we will likely have a number of spells we can cast on the move, which in itself makes mages more mobile. Failing that, if we need more mobility, we could just spec in to only fast casting spells - as even something as basic as this functions as an increase in mobility, if an increase in mobility is needed. As for if we need more CC im fairly sure taking bard or summoner secondary would allow a mage to occupy a target for an amount of time. Where I think you perhaps went wrong in your assumption is in thinking something like a "mobility" spec for a mage needs to be on par with a mobility spec for a fighter, ranger or rogue. It doesn't - it just needs to allow for more mobility for said mage than a basic DPS spec allows for. Same with a CC spec - it doesn't mean that needs to make CC the main focus, it just means that you take some additional CC over what you would have in your regular build. With this in mind, the notion that there won't be ways for every class to spec a little more in to almost any aspect of the game seems incredibly unlikely. And that is without needing a crystal ball. no you dot. and thats the problem. i know these are just examples,b ut again, this depends on the game. for example you see bards and summoners as cc providers, (and probably picking them as 2ndary will provide this as well) but i see them as buff and debuff providers. that doesnt mean you cant have a game where bards are more focused on cc, you can for sure. but thats not mandatory.
nothing guarantees that on ashes every character will have different options as you mentioned.
on top of that, remember that pvp and pve arent separated. you might say well its better to take a more defensive build for this dungeon, then you go back to town, reset, and then you cant even get to the dungeon or farm it because of pvp and your choice of build is the worst for it.
Noaani wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Depraved wrote: » what if all the dps don't have a build option for survivability? or mobility, etc. They will. They may not all have available builds to make mobility the main aspect of the build, or to have survivability to the point of being a tank, but they will all have the ability to add to these factors. Please note, I am specifically saying "they will" in the absolute. I am not saying "they may", or "they probably will". They outright will. that depends on thee game... Well, I'm talking about this game. bruh we literally haven't seen all the skills, augments, gear, all the builds someone can have. i didn't know you had a crystal ball lol. I don't. I just have a basic understanding of game mechanics and development. Let's take mages for example. We know they can spec DPS. if we want survivability, I'm fairly sure taking tank as secondary will accomplish that. For mobility, we already have blink we can spec in to, so we know there is at least some scope to spec some mobility. On top of that, we will likely have a number of spells we can cast on the move, which in itself makes mages more mobile. Failing that, if we need more mobility, we could just spec in to only fast casting spells - as even something as basic as this functions as an increase in mobility, if an increase in mobility is needed. As for if we need more CC im fairly sure taking bard or summoner secondary would allow a mage to occupy a target for an amount of time. Where I think you perhaps went wrong in your assumption is in thinking something like a "mobility" spec for a mage needs to be on par with a mobility spec for a fighter, ranger or rogue. It doesn't - it just needs to allow for more mobility for said mage than a basic DPS spec allows for. Same with a CC spec - it doesn't mean that needs to make CC the main focus, it just means that you take some additional CC over what you would have in your regular build. With this in mind, the notion that there won't be ways for every class to spec a little more in to almost any aspect of the game seems incredibly unlikely. And that is without needing a crystal ball. no you dot. and thats the problem. i know these are just examples,b ut again, this depends on the game. for example you see bards and summoners as cc providers, (and probably picking them as 2ndary will provide this as well) but i see them as buff and debuff providers. that doesnt mean you cant have a game where bards are more focused on cc, you can for sure. but thats not mandatory. It was an example. I expect bards to also do a lot of buffing and debuffing - but since we were already talking about CC, and since I expect bards to have a good amount of CC, the bard in my example was CC focused. Is that a problem? I mean, the very fact that you state outright that you expect bards to be able to spec CC but that it isn't mandatory means you actually agree 100% with what I am saying - because what I am saying is that there will be that scope for variance. nothing guarantees that on ashes every character will have different options as you mentioned. Actually, the games class structure literally guarantees it. In your example of a DPS class having options for burst, dps (by which i assume you mean sustained damage) or DoT's, the mobility option is ignoring the games class system completely. Sure, Archwizard may only have those three options, but that mage has 7 other secondary classes they can spec in to, each with 4 augment trees. If the 32 augment trees available to mages (ignoring augments from other aspects of the game) can just be boiled down to the above three, or even just to different ways of dealing the same DPS, then Intrepid would have failed as game developers. on top of that, remember that pvp and pve arent separated. you might say well its better to take a more defensive build for this dungeon, then you go back to town, reset, and then you cant even get to the dungeon or farm it because of pvp and your choice of build is the worst for it. Yeah, doesn't that sound like a much better game than always running the same spec for every piece of content you do? It means when you run in to some rivals, even if you've fought them many times, you still won't quite know what to expect. Are they jn their normal PvP spec that you've fought against many times? Are you in your PvP spec? Is one or both groups in a PvE focused spec? Are you in a mid spec? Makes the game way more interesting.
Depraved wrote: » i expect them to be buffers and debuffers.
mage/mage = change your own spells elements or just increase their damage mage/hunter = add crit rate to your spells or damage to certain mobs (beasts), change your elements to nature mage/rogue = add critical damage to your stuff. change your elements to dark. mage/cleric = change your elements to holy or dark. more damage to undead / demons mage/bard = add some minor buffs or mana regen to your stuff. add magic penetration mage/summoner = summon temporary pets. add debuffs to your kit, cancel enemy buffs mage/warrior = change some of your spells to do physical damage. add armor penetration. more aoe mage/tank = reduce aggro caused by your spells.
Noaani wrote: » Depraved wrote: » i expect them to be buffers and debuffers. Yeah, but this makes no difference at all to the point I am making. Literally no difference at all. If it turns out that bards are buffers/debuffers, then OBVIOUSLY the bards we run will be in buff/debuff spec. Then OBVIOUSLY if we need some other aspect, we alter it to better suit the needs on hand. mage/mage = change your own spells elements or just increase their damage mage/hunter = add crit rate to your spells or damage to certain mobs (beasts), change your elements to nature mage/rogue = add critical damage to your stuff. change your elements to dark. mage/cleric = change your elements to holy or dark. more damage to undead / demons mage/bard = add some minor buffs or mana regen to your stuff. add magic penetration mage/summoner = summon temporary pets. add debuffs to your kit, cancel enemy buffs mage/warrior = change some of your spells to do physical damage. add armor penetration. more aoe mage/tank = reduce aggro caused by your spells. I mean, again, you are proving my point. CC, DPS and mobility were examples. If the game doesn't have builds for that, it obviously won't ask players to spec for that. Using your examples here, mage/ranger (that you have labeled as mage/hunter) would very obviously not be a good spec for PvP. It would potentially be GREAT for PvE in some areas, literally proving the point that I am making in that there will naturally be some specs that are better for one of either PvE or PvP than they are for the other. Your attempt to disprove my point here has backfired spectacularly - I got to the second example you gave before there was an obvious build that was better for PvE over PvP. If we go down your list, we can look over the rest and pick it apart. Your cleric suggestion is obviously going to be better in PvE than PvP - we have no undead or demon races. Your bard suggestion is only of use in PvP is fights are long, and if it isn't easy to get excess magic penetration. Your summoner suggestion would be great in most PvP situations - it would only be good in PvE situations where mobs are using meaningful buffs that can be cancelled. (which is rare in every MMO I have played - buffs are either meaningful OR can be cancelled, never both). Your warrior build is probably going to be a higher mobility build. Since physical damage is usually the easiest to protect against, developers have to compensate those that deal it by allowing them to deal damage while on the move. If mages taking warrior as a secondary find themselves still dealing the same amount of damage, and still unable to move while casting, then this would become the meme class. Your tank build also seems to be lacking in viability in PvP. Are you starting to get my point yet? If you have options - ANY options - you have options that are better at PvP and other options that are better at PvE. It is also worth pointing out two specific points to you. The first is that you have only gone over one out of four specs for each of the above classes. The second is that we already know mages will have a higher mobility spec. We KNOW that blink is a spell mages can opt to use. A higher DPS build wouldn't waste points on it, but a mobility build would - thus mage has a mobility build already - as an outright point of fact.
Depraved wrote: » in simple words, lets say the party needs 5 things. you are saying that every character will have the option to contribute those 5 things by respeccing depending on the situation
Choosing life augments will provide self-healing benefits as well as limited life-giving benefits to other players.[19][20][17]
ralgurashes wrote: » So glad I didn’t preorder. This game will have a large influx of players expecting some PvE. Once they realize that it is mostly PvP, there will be massive rage posts and a huge population drop. The game will end up marginal at best. Low population. It will then either completely fail or struggle along with low pop and stagnation due to lack of funding to keep it going. This type of game cannot make it with how mmorpg players are now days. You’d think developers would have figured this out by now. What a waste of investment dollars.
NiKr wrote: » Your ideas haven't evolved in that time though. Depending on your age, either good for you or I'm sorry you still feel that way.
Noaani wrote: » and Ashes non PvP content from what we have seen is a long way short of that bar (Age of Conan is in my top 5 best top end PvE MMO's).
