Tab targeting combat in PvP makes no sense today.

How about guys, I want to give my opinion on the tab target, I know there are many discussions about this, but we have to remind intrepid that the tab target is obsolete and I understand that Steven wants to make an old school mmorp, but I disagree in delivering the tab target and especially in pvp since we could not dodge certain targeted abilities.

For me it doesn't make sense since it would be extremely easy to cast skills and I think that even a noob could kill anyone without having to use their developed skills (action combat), it is reasonable that the tab target is used in pve, they are compatible since we are killing npcs or mobs. But adding tab target to pvp does not make sense, since pvp has great synchronization with action combat, apart from improving your skills with mouse control and launching skills (keyboard) among others. In my opinion they should automatically disable the target tab for pvp. I know it's hybrid combat, but I wanted to give this suggestion.

What do you guys think?

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oOKingOo

Im an action combat player myself but i dont think itll be a problem. For example in eso you can lock targets and its basically tab target but its not rly unbalanced.

Solvryn

mcstackerson wrote: »

Atrazia wrote: »

Tab target > action combat in most cases. You just can't reliably target a player with action combat in a massive fight.

How is this a bad thing?

I see this as a good thing. Mass pvp in tab games is hell, especially for melee, since it's too easy for people to target and focus you down. You are not able to enjoy the fight since you die almost instantly.

People don’t have the dexterity for a whole lot of free aim.

So they make some up to cover up that fact, instead of admitting they need tab because they would never be able to partake in a mmo that’s predominantly free aimed abilities.

Veeshan

I would like to see more actiony skills though the super impactful skills imo should be aimed in some way or another.
for example pull should be aimed since pulling somone in large scale fights is basiclyt 100% kill

Mag7spy

Solvryn wrote: »

mcstackerson wrote: »

Atrazia wrote: »

Tab target > action combat in most cases. You just can't reliably target a player with action combat in a massive fight.

How is this a bad thing?

I see this as a good thing. Mass pvp in tab games is hell, especially for melee, since it's too easy for people to target and focus you down. You are not able to enjoy the fight since you die almost instantly.

People don’t have the dexterity for a whole lot of free aim.

So they make some up to cover up that fact, instead of admitting they need tab because they would never be able to partake in a mmo that’s predominantly free aimed abilities.

i feel like this free aim thing needs to be debunked, action mmorpg does not mean shooter. You can use soft target and just need to be aiming generally near someone. That is base line the easiest version and than yuo tweak aoe size (if there is even a aoe) and precision of your target loc for how near you need to be near someone for your attack to go off. On top of having varying forms where its a slower moving projectile or a homing projectile (if homing as long as you attacked during the lock on it will home towards the target)

It doesn't get any easier than that as we are talking about hybrid. And requires addition effort, skill and tracking (no where near the lvl of a FPS)

mcstackerson

Solvryn wrote: »

mcstackerson wrote: »

Atrazia wrote: »

Tab target > action combat in most cases. You just can't reliably target a player with action combat in a massive fight.

How is this a bad thing?

I see this as a good thing. Mass pvp in tab games is hell, especially for melee, since it's too easy for people to target and focus you down. You are not able to enjoy the fight since you die almost instantly.

People don’t have the dexterity for a whole lot of free aim.

So they make some up to cover up that fact, instead of admitting they need tab because they would never be able to partake in a mmo that’s predominantly free aimed abilities.

I'm sure some might be worried about this but I genuinely don't think it's as hard as they fear. Most people already keep control of their camera as they play in tab systems, altering their play so they are also keeping the center of their camera on what they are looking isn't taxing.

I know some fear adding aiming means they need to be able to 360 no scope to play the game and that isn't the case. Yes, if you die in one hit, the person who can put their curser on the target first wins but that's not how MMOs play. The longer the ttk, the less important that initial hit is.

Voeltz

Tab combat is very dated but this game will never be fully action because the devs love tab (clearly) and so does a part of the community because they can't aim. Aiming too hard. A true hybrid would be best case scenario. Have the more powerful abilities require some sort of aiming whether it be frontal cones, templated AOEs or skillshots like LoL has. Stuff like basic attacks or rapid fire could be tab or soft lock.

Mag7spy

Voeltz wrote: »

Tab combat is very dated but this game will never be fully action because the devs love tab (clearly) and so does a part of the community because they can't aim. Aiming too hard. A true hybrid would be best case scenario. Have the more powerful abilities require some sort of aiming whether it be frontal cones, templated AOEs or skillshots like LoL has. Stuff like basic attacks or rapid fire could be tab or soft lock.

Basic aiming be hard since some of these old school followers are like 50 lmao.

Rainwolffield

As long as the characters have the tools in it’s build then all the negative things you say that you don’t like in tab target is done away with. Tab target is more about the decisions you make and what moves you use in “X” situations. It’s actually a much more of a skill based system than action combat or soft lock.

You just don’t like the side the skill is on. Tab target is about mentally preparing for any situation that arises and being ready to counter it, action is more about the decisions made right there in that moment.

Personally I find the tab target to be a much. Much deeper skill system. The way that you described Tab target systems, like some noob killing you because he’s locked to cast spells, it almost makes me think you have never played a Tab target PVP system in an MMORPG before.

Not trying to be a jerk but some of the points you mentioned are just not realistic unless it’s the worst tab target system ever. But I heard that Throne and Liberty had reworked its combat system.

Mag7spy

Rainwolffield wrote: »

As long as the characters have the tools in it’s build then all the negative things you say that you don’t like in tab target is done away with. Tab target is more about the decisions you make and what moves you use in “X” situations. It’s actually a much more of a skill based system than action combat or soft lock.

You just don’t like the side the skill is on. Tab target is about mentally preparing for any situation that arises and being ready to counter it, action is more about the decisions made right there in that moment.

Personally I find the tab target to be a much. Much deeper skill system. The way that you described Tab target systems, like some noob killing you because he’s locked to cast spells, it almost makes me think you have never played a Tab target PVP system in an MMORPG before.

Not trying to be a jerk but some of the points you mentioned are just not realistic unless it’s the worst tab target system ever. But I heard that Throne and Liberty had reworked its combat system.

That isn't true action has everything TAB has on preparing, decision, etc because you literally just make the abilities work the same... but you need to target your enemy, and position is more important on top of it.

This idea tab does things action doesn't is debunked easily when

1. You read off both abilities and they do the exact same thing showing there is in difference between abilities and in turn the depth of game play.
2. Argument becomes about what is easier to use in fights and there isn't a argument you can make for tab since all you have to do is have someone selected and use your rotations while being in range of them. Even when going of large aoes that still takes more skill than tab lock and skill rotate. And you aren't even getting into the discussion on small cones, aoe sizes, or soft lock which only targets one person (0 difference from tab in how it targets one person but you need to follow and track them so some extent)
3. The extra loop added in with action needing to be camera facing and targeting your enemy being he only addition on top of action combat showing it has not just the depth of how abilities work but other skill elements on top of it.

Every time argument boils down as a response with either action is only large aoes or action can't have as many skills. Both which are completely false you can have as many skills with action as you want. You can have action without large aoes or aoes at all using softlock.

Solvryn

Mag7spy wrote: »

Solvryn wrote: »

mcstackerson wrote: »

Atrazia wrote: »

Tab target > action combat in most cases. You just can't reliably target a player with action combat in a massive fight.

How is this a bad thing?

I see this as a good thing. Mass pvp in tab games is hell, especially for melee, since it's too easy for people to target and focus you down. You are not able to enjoy the fight since you die almost instantly.

People don’t have the dexterity for a whole lot of free aim.

So they make some up to cover up that fact, instead of admitting they need tab because they would never be able to partake in a mmo that’s predominantly free aimed abilities.

i feel like this free aim thing needs to be debunked, action mmorpg does not mean shooter. You can use soft target and just need to be aiming generally near someone. That is base line the easiest version and than yuo tweak aoe size (if there is even a aoe) and precision of your target loc for how near you need to be near someone for your attack to go off. On top of having varying forms where its a slower moving projectile or a homing projectile (if homing as long as you attacked during the lock on it will home towards the target)

It doesn't get any easier than that as we are talking about hybrid. And requires addition effort, skill and tracking (no where near the lvl of a FPS)

It does, people think free aiming is the boogeyman and it isn’t.

Shit just learning how to screen center and most people would dramatically improve.

At this point people just love bad faith.

AnimusRex

Mag7spy wrote: »

Basic aiming be hard since some of these old school followers are like 50 lmao.

Get our ages right, you whippersnapper. 50 was a long time ago.

And get off my lawn.

Mag7spy

AnimusRex wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Basic aiming be hard since some of these old school followers are like 50 lmao.

Get our ages right, you whippersnapper. 50 was a long time ago.

And get off my lawn.

Noaani

AnimusRex wrote: »

50 was a long time ago.

I have to assume you were only 35 when you started following this game though.

AnimusRex

Noaani wrote: »

AnimusRex wrote: »

50 was a long time ago.

I have to assume you were only 35 when you started following this game though.

I think it's 3 more grandkids and a triple bypass later.

Dezemi

AnimusRex wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Basic aiming be hard since some of these old school followers are like 50 lmao.

Get our ages right, you whippersnapper. 50 was a long time ago.

And get off my lawn.

My parents are both in their 60s (first generation gamers) and they are both really interested in AoC due to it's classical approach.

I'd be really disappointed if AoC decided to abandon the tab target part to focus on action combat for their sake alone (for me personally I don't really care so long as it does not turn into a fps or tps). It feels like it would be a huge betrayal to those who have been waiting for AoC in hopes of getting old school MMOs back.

SoSpokeMika

Hybrid is perfectly fine. What I would love to see more of are telegraphed skillshots like Scatter Shot. If it was up to me, I would do 80%+ of skill like that.
Only cleric would have less telegraphed skillshots, because they must be specific about their targets, but even that can be done well (Guild Wars 2)

I would even turn, something like fighter's Rush into skill shot.

SKILL SHOTS!

Fantmx

You not liking it does not mean it is obsolete.

Solvryn

SoSpokeMika wrote: »

Hybrid is perfectly fine. What I would love to see more of are telegraphed skillshots like Scatter Shot. If it was up to me, I would do 80%+ of skill like that.
Only cleric would have less telegraphed skillshots, because they must be specific about their targets, but even that can be done well (Guild Wars 2)

I would even turn, something like fighter's Rush into skill shot.

SKILL SHOTS!

Tis what we are waiting on.

Mag7spy

Solvryn wrote: »

SoSpokeMika wrote: »

Hybrid is perfectly fine. What I would love to see more of are telegraphed skillshots like Scatter Shot. If it was up to me, I would do 80%+ of skill like that.
Only cleric would have less telegraphed skillshots, because they must be specific about their targets, but even that can be done well (Guild Wars 2)

I would even turn, something like fighter's Rush into skill shot.

SKILL SHOTS!

Tis what we are waiting on.

There could be a version that is like that, we need to see what these augments will be.

oOKingOo

Diamaht wrote: »

No thanks, I don't want to play a shooter. Its not obsolete when all of the most popular mmos, and I mean all of them, have tab targeting.

All is just wild. ESO, BDO, Tera back in the day were all very successful with action combat. On the other hand, WoW, GW, and SWTOR are successful with tab targeting. I think hybrid is perfect, but I'm gonna adapt to whatever they choose in the end anyways.

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