"Ashes Of Creation Is A Scam"

TheTruthTeller

What're your thoughts on these types of videos?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBY3d3eHea8

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Mag7spy

So you made an account today to just post this as spam.

oOKingOo

I don't waste time on these people's opinions. I've followed the project for years, and they've delivered on every single thing they promised so far. I feel like these videos exist to pull supporters of the game to them, explaining how it is not a scam, which gives them views, comments, and attention. It's cheap in my opinion, but people are free to do what they want. I see it like this: if you think it's a scam, then don't give attention to it. I mean, what do you do with scam emails? You delete them and don't worry about it anymore. You don't make a YouTube video about how the email is a scam, etc. The future will show who is right anyway (supporters/this is a scam screamers), so I don't see a reason to waste time on these videos.

Aszkalon

I have the highest doubts that this Game will ever be a Scam.

Several Reasons why. But funnily, while the Existence of for Example " God " in our Realworld can never be proven or disproven,

i think the monthly Presentations since the last Years prove very well, that something is coming our Way.

While the eternal " Ashes of Creation M~UUUHHHH is a Scam "-Squallers, can never prove that the Game is a Scam. They just repeat this Troll-Line like Parrots and will never bring any Proof to the table.

nanfoodle

There is too much proff there is a real game. The list of that would take longer then I have time for. Only scam is looking for clicks on a topic that's a lie.

Aszkalon

nanfoodle wrote: »

There is too much proff there is a real game.

Yes.

Exactly that.

AnimusRex

To be fair, and technical, and a bit of a dick, Intrepid haven't delivered on all promises yet. They have not released a complete game yet.

Of course they will. It's not a scam, its too far along now. Or maybe that's the plan. But no really, scammers don't want to be visible. They want to be faceless and difficult to bring to justice when the sh!t hits the fan.

Steven is the opposite. He's omnipresent. He's everywhere. It's like he has a double. Ooooh...

mobtek

That one is hilarious, from the crappy music and AI voice, then the Pantheon bit at the end

daveywavey

Show us on the Stuffertons Bear where the bad man hurt you.

AidanKD

It's too easy to white knight against these kind of videos but I try to actually attack it objectively. In the context of the game being a "scam":

- Development time. This is a non issue. The game is huge and it will take some time. The mistake Intrepid made was giving deadlines in the past. That has bitten them in the backside a bit, but they've honed back on that now. The game also had 20 devs at the start - now sitting on 170+, so the development pipeline only started to pick up in the past 2 years.

- Battle Royale. I actually think this is a legit criticism that really hurt their reputation. I don't think people should try to defend this. It wasn't clear what the purpose was in its inception and while I don't doubt they pulled useful data from it - I really don't buy that the sole purpose was to gather combat data. You could just as easily have done that in an Alpha 1 format.

- Time Wasting. I mean, this ties into development time. But this is a new studio where they ramped up the dev team from 20-170+. To be honest I think it's fair to point out their inexperience as a Studio - of course they haven't used the time as efficiently as a seasoned studio. Not really a reason to consider the game a scam though.

- Cash Shop. They tied this into time wasting for some reason... but I mean personally I think the cash shop has done much more harm than good. The FOMO of it all, and the pricing of it has hurt the reputation of Intrepid more than it has helped. It's definitely objectively successful given the large number of sales they probably have got, but as a supporter of the game (not invested any money into it and don't plan to until release) - I understand the flack Intrepid gets for the Cash Shop. I also don't care that they just removed the shop just now. My point is that the cash shop excluding financial gain, has hurt Intrepid but if the game releases and is successful this will probably be swept under the rug.

- Combat. I actually think the combat is a justified criticism for one reason - there has never been a distinct goal in terms of the combat. The Tab/Action Hybrid has brought ALOT of discussion and friction between people's preferred method. Additionally, we've seen it change quite a lot. I think it's gotten better recently, however it's never stood out at any point in terms of having a clear identity. Because of that people don't know what the end goal is with combat, but just to iterate - doesn't make the game a scam. Just means that Intrepid need to be more strict with their combat goals.

- Headstarts. I don't like this personally. It was pledged during kickstarter so it's not like they can pull it. But I wouldn't want to join a new realm where someone's had a headstart. Competitively for me it doesn't matter since i'm a casual player - but it does mean that for competitive players, if you're priced out of a realm where headstarts exist, then you might choose not to join that realm. The game is pretty slow and maybe 2 days doesn't mean a whole lot, but again there's just a bad taste it leaves me with.

- Patch Cycles. I won't deny that Ashes has some ambitions goals, but comparing pre-launch development to post-launch patch cycles can't be done. If they do a good job of making the development tools that help to create content; hopefully that lends to future content - but we'll never know until post launch.

- Guild dominance. This is a genuine concern. We'll see how Intrepid balance the playing field, but that's not an argument for the game being a scam.

- Flying mounts. Personally i'd have preferred no flying mounts - however they'll be so sparse that it's really not an issue. I mean... is it really that different to having legendary weapons/armour limited to a few people on each server?

- Group up or get griefed. Corruption system - if done well, should make this less of an issue. I'll be a mostly solo player. I will be casual and definitely won't be brushing shoulders with the larger groups, should also put me off their radar mostly.

- Sub Model. Hey they actually said something positive about the game! It will go a way towards preventing botting.

- FutureMMOs - I mean Riot's MMO will be free to play...not saying it will be good or bad, but surely you'll experience the same issues you get on most f2p mmos ala botting.

All in all, I think it's easy to write off videos like these, but there are some valid points of criticism. But collectively it doesn't warrant the game being called a scam. You could highlight that the cash shop drew suitable criticism and the combat never had a clear vision aside from it being "hybrid" but even that was vague.

That aside, I am still optimistic for the game, while being open minded to its short comings and my hope is that Intrepid and the team can meet most of their goals without hitting too many issues of Scope allowing things to get out of hand/delayed too much.

oOKingOo

AnimusRex wrote: »

To be fair, and technical, and a bit of a dick, Intrepid haven't delivered on all promises yet. They have not released a complete game yet.

Of course they will. It's not a scam, its too far along now. Or maybe that's the plan. But no really, scammers don't want to be visible. They want to be faceless and difficult to bring to justice when the sh!t hits the fan.

Steven is the opposite. He's omnipresent. He's everywhere. It's like he has a double. Ooooh...

Well, they never promised we would have a completely finished playable game launch in February 2024, so I don't see how that's not keeping a promise.

oOKingOo

AidanKD wrote: »

It's too easy to white knight against these kind of videos but I try to actually attack it objectively. In the context of the game being a "scam":

- Cash Shop. They tied this into time wasting for some reason... but I mean personally I think the cash shop has done much more harm than good. The FOMO of it all, and the pricing of it has hurt the reputation of Intrepid more than it has helped. It's definitely objectively successful given the large number of sales they probably have got, but as a supporter of the game (not invested any money into it and don't plan to until release) - I understand the flack Intrepid gets for the Cash Shop. I also don't care that they just removed the shop just now. My point is that the cash shop excluding financial gain, has hurt Intrepid but if the game releases and is successful this will probably be swept under the rug.

The cash shop was the only way to ensure that they get high-quality testers in alpha 2 who are dedicated to the game and understand that it's in development. They will try to find bugs or general issues, which will in the long term help the game much more than if testing were made random or even free for everyone. In that scenario, people would just complain that the game is unfinished, and everybody would try to make the game more like the one they play now instead of trying to make Ashes better.
And the pricing was extremely fair.

AidanKD

oOLu_BuOo wrote: »

AidanKD wrote: »

It's too easy to white knight against these kind of videos but I try to actually attack it objectively. In the context of the game being a "scam":

- Cash Shop. They tied this into time wasting for some reason... but I mean personally I think the cash shop has done much more harm than good. The FOMO of it all, and the pricing of it has hurt the reputation of Intrepid more than it has helped. It's definitely objectively successful given the large number of sales they probably have got, but as a supporter of the game (not invested any money into it and don't plan to until release) - I understand the flack Intrepid gets for the Cash Shop. I also don't care that they just removed the shop just now. My point is that the cash shop excluding financial gain, has hurt Intrepid but if the game releases and is successful this will probably be swept under the rug.

The cash shop was the only way to ensure that they get high-quality testers in alpha 2 who are dedicated to the game and understand that it's in development. They will try to find bugs or general issues, which will in the long term help the game much more than if testing were made random or even free for everyone. In that scenario, people would just complain that the game is unfinished, and everybody would try to make the game more like the one they play now instead of trying to make Ashes better.
And the pricing was extremely fair.

I'm sorry but this is exactly the kind of excuse that you can't suggest as being the norm and what I was talking about with the "white knighting".

Are you saying that the only good testers out there are the ones willing to drop 350+ dollars into the game? Who now have a financial investment into the game?

I would argue that much more high quality testers would be... actual testers. People who do it for a living. It's an actual job, that people get paid for. I understand that financially gatekeeping the entry thins the herd - but you'd be naive if you didn't think that the vast majority of backers are not pulling their weight on a testing regard. Of course it did make them money so it's not like it was for nothing.

There are likely a huge number of people who would be a great tester but aren't willing to drop 350 dollars to help. They currently are locked out of testing with the current model.

And on the pricing - "fair" is not really a parameter that's objective here. Is it "fair" to the kickstarter backers? Yes, since it was put at that wall of a price before.

Is it suitable for access to a testing environment? I'm not so sure.

AidanKD

oOLu_BuOo wrote: »

AnimusRex wrote: »

To be fair, and technical, and a bit of a dick, Intrepid haven't delivered on all promises yet. They have not released a complete game yet.

Of course they will. It's not a scam, its too far along now. Or maybe that's the plan. But no really, scammers don't want to be visible. They want to be faceless and difficult to bring to justice when the sh!t hits the fan.

Steven is the opposite. He's omnipresent. He's everywhere. It's like he has a double. Ooooh...

Well, they never promised we would have a completely finished playable game launch in February 2024, so I don't see how that's not keeping a promise.

He's probably citing the promises they did make before. which was the 2020 release. It's a part of their history and since then they've stopped giving dates.

He also was making the point that until the game is fully released it will be held under scrutiny. Pros and Cons of open development, but @AnimusRex clearly is more pro-Ashes but at least is willing to accept some of the criticisms they are genuinely due.

It's important not to brown nose Intrepid too much - i'll continue to support them BY holding them accountable, I think it's the best way to make sure the final product is close to the best thing it can be.

Dezemi

oOLu_BuOo wrote: »

AidanKD wrote: »

It's too easy to white knight against these kind of videos but I try to actually attack it objectively. In the context of the game being a "scam":

- Cash Shop. They tied this into time wasting for some reason... but I mean personally I think the cash shop has done much more harm than good. The FOMO of it all, and the pricing of it has hurt the reputation of Intrepid more than it has helped. It's definitely objectively successful given the large number of sales they probably have got, but as a supporter of the game (not invested any money into it and don't plan to until release) - I understand the flack Intrepid gets for the Cash Shop. I also don't care that they just removed the shop just now. My point is that the cash shop excluding financial gain, has hurt Intrepid but if the game releases and is successful this will probably be swept under the rug.

The cash shop was the only way to ensure that they get high-quality testers in alpha 2 who are dedicated to the game and understand that it's in development. They will try to find bugs or general issues, which will in the long term help the game much more than if testing were made random or even free for everyone. In that scenario, people would just complain that the game is unfinished, and everybody would try to make the game more like the one they play now instead of trying to make Ashes better.
And the pricing was extremely fair.

As someone who bought one of these packs, I sincerely disagree.

Money =/= dedication.

Sure, it might act as some kind of filter, but I don't feel right pretending that people who can't or wont spend that money are less dedicated than those who do.

In fact, I'd almost argue that the people who would make the best testers are the ones who probably cannot afford to buy themselves in as the people who study (in America), people out of work or people on long sick leave. Cause these people have a lot more time to dedicate than the ones of us that have to work (but hence can afford to buy it).

I mean hell, I want to help Intrepid with as much testing as possible (and I did the same for BG3 during it's EA) - but as a working AND studying mom to a young 1 and a half year old kid, I have much less time than most of my friends. The only reason I have any time at all is because I work and study from home to care for the little guy. :] (And this is also why idm AoC taking so long xd)

Liniker

oOLu_BuOo wrote: »

The cash shop was the only way to ensure that they get high-quality testers in alpha 2 who are dedicated to the game and understand that it's in development.

@oOLu_BuOo that goes to show you haven't participated in any testing phase, during Alpha one, as soon as they said they would turn PvP on to get data and do testing, all the 500$ backers spammed chat complaining about it and said they were leaving and would return when they turned it off lol

we barely got proper sieges going, people complained about everything, that statement of yours couldn't be further from the truth.

Ludullu

Dezmerizing wrote: »

I mean hell, I want to help Intrepid with as much testing as possible (and I did the same for BG3 during it's EA) - but as a working AND studying mom to a young 1 and a half year old kid, I have much less time than most of my friends. The only reason I have any time at all is because I work and study from home to care for the little guy. :] (And this is also why idm AoC taking so long xd)

Growing your own alt character that can farm stuff for you is really smart.

As for investment and dedication, there's definitely a middleground of "how much best testers are ready/can pay" and "how many people Intrepid want in the test". Considering that they allegedly already have over 100k A2 testers - I'm sure they're happy that the cost was in fact as high as it is.

AnimusRex

oOLu_BuOo wrote: »

AnimusRex wrote: »

To be fair, and technical, and a bit of a dick, Intrepid haven't delivered on all promises yet. They have not released a complete game yet.

Of course they will. It's not a scam, its too far along now. Or maybe that's the plan. But no really, scammers don't want to be visible. They want to be faceless and difficult to bring to justice when the sh!t hits the fan.

Steven is the opposite. He's omnipresent. He's everywhere. It's like he has a double. Ooooh...

Well, they never promised we would have a completely finished playable game launch in February 2024, so I don't see how that's not keeping a promise.

The early streams are still available to watch. And even if you're ignorant of them, you haven't grasped the nuance of what I stated.

Anyway, I thought you said you don't waste time on these videos...

Adwaa

Videos like this are nothing more than clickbait anyone can see how much love and attention goes into AOC just watch ANY live stream they have done in fact watch any video from Intrepid from the past however many years you will see the growth of the game and the same level of commitment to it no matter how far in the project is.

oOKingOo

Liniker wrote: »

oOLu_BuOo wrote: »

The cash shop was the only way to ensure that they get high-quality testers in alpha 2 who are dedicated to the game and understand that it's in development.

@oOLu_BuOo that goes to show you haven't participated in any testing phase, during Alpha one, as soon as they said they would turn PvP on to get data and do testing, all the 500$ backers spammed chat complaining about it and said they were leaving and would return when they turned it off lol

we barely got proper sieges going, people complained about everything, that statement of yours couldn't be further from the truth.

It still stands perfectly fine. Just imagine the ammount of complainig that would happen if it was free for all. Plus the 500$ backers knew much less about the game then we know by now which made ppl have wrong expectations. Nowadays we know what direction the game goes in much more and you can rightfully say anyone complaining about pvp existing in the game and still buying the preorder packs is a fkn idiot.

oOKingOo

AnimusRex wrote: »

oOLu_BuOo wrote: »

AnimusRex wrote: »

To be fair, and technical, and a bit of a dick, Intrepid haven't delivered on all promises yet. They have not released a complete game yet.

Of course they will. It's not a scam, its too far along now. Or maybe that's the plan. But no really, scammers don't want to be visible. They want to be faceless and difficult to bring to justice when the sh!t hits the fan.

Steven is the opposite. He's omnipresent. He's everywhere. It's like he has a double. Ooooh...

Well, they never promised we would have a completely finished playable game launch in February 2024, so I don't see how that's not keeping a promise.

The early streams are still available to watch. And even if you're ignorant of them, you haven't grasped the nuance of what I stated.

Anyway, I thought you said you don't waste time on these videos...

Ive watchd every stream starting from the first stream that is available. You wont find a quotable promise of anything that they didnt deliver on otherwise ppl wouldve already given that quote. But you cant since it doesnt exist.

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